Mobile was big but it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did. It's like, okay, there's some businesses, some new opportunities, lots of good things, lots of money made, lots of startups. Awesome. This is an order of magnitude
bigger than that. I feel like I could rule the world. I know, I could be what I want to
travel. Never looking
back. All right. What's up? We have our mesh, backed our mesh, who is co-founder of HubSpot and
Multiple Time guest on the Pod, one of the one of the fan favorites your back. And I don't know what we're going to talk about because usually we have these little like cheat sheets where it's like three to five bullet points of interesting ideas topics experiments. You've been running things like that and I'm sure you have those but I don't have to cheat. So where do you want to
start? I say we start with generative AI because I don't know if you heard but there's this thing called tragedy because I get this question from my friends and family all the times after mesh. Have you checked out this
GT thing. And like really, do you even know me like horse? Of course, I played with that. I've been obsessed ever since it came out. So, did you see, I want to talk about your topics but really quite, did you guys see this that? So, Sam Altman co-founded open a.i. He's like the man in charge. I read an article where he was quoted as saying like, I have enough money and I don't want equity in the company, and I don't know if I entirely believe that, but that's wild if true, because it could be one of the more valuable companies in the world, the next 10 years.
Years.
Yeah, he didn't. I don't know if he said it like he didn't say it on the record, on the record, but the person reporting. It said, Sam reportedly has no equity in the the for-profit version of open AI because he's already wealthy enough and didn't want. It didn't feel like he needed to or didn't want to didn't want to have that clouding his judgment when it came to this and like this is pretty good. A bet what, what one private company? What one private startup is most likely to become worth a trillion dollars or more. I think at this point that has to be
I right now is every like dermis would you disagree with
that? It'd be up there. The top three, okay? I honestly can't think of who else would rake higher in terms of probability
of getting here, what? It's the top three and I don't know what 2 & 3 are. Yeah. Well, what are the other two and three, you know?
No, it's, I would say that was the transformative one, right? I think a lot of that kind of Tesla gains we've sort of seen. I'm not sure if they're like big surprises left, it's like okay, they will make it better. They'll get to false self driving and we'll see kind of progress on that front. But in terms of just Raw,
Uation. It's the Wild Card, open your eyes, the one that could actually pull out
and they get they get a lot of shit because people are saying like along kind of Estill County's fire. Like how did this nonprofit go to a for how did this open source? Non-profit company, research lab basically become a for-profit? Semi-closed you know the company. And I think that's people going to take shots and make fun of opened my eye because it's clearly the new powerful thing. That's so some people are going to say how it's going to rule the world and how
They are but he did give it. There was a story that came out that was a good explanation which was they were burning a lot of money in the research lab, they needed more money Elon was going to be the big backer so he was going to pledge or commit a billion dollars to it and then he was like, no I don't. Like the way this is going like Google is way ahead and I'm going to take over open a.i. and I'm going to right the ship here. This is the this is what K. This is the story that came out. They haven't nobody's clarified. If this is true or not, but it came out and I think plot the plot.
At former publication. And so they go Elon tried to take it over Sam Altman and the CTO Greg who was the former CTO of stripe. They them. And the group that was in charge of opening. I rejected that so elon's like basically, like I'm taking my ball and I'm going home have fun playing basketball without the ball. And he's like, I took he took his funding any left. So he, a couple months later, the he left opening, I said, oh the, the public story was, oh, it's a conflict of interest with Tesla because they're also working on a, i
But he reneged on his funding. And so now they had this huge shortfall in funding that they were going to have to cover it. So their solution was, let's create a subsidiary that's a for-profit thing that we can raise money into because we're not going to get, you know, where else do we get a, you know, 500 million dollars or billion dollars of donations here. And so they did that they raised money in that and then they capped the profits of that company. So that was kind of their explanation which is a little bit less devious than people make it sound.
Like, oh, they tricked Everybody by going from nonprofit to for-profit to all the prophets which is, I think how people perceive it
today? Yeah, I do the details. I have no Insider knowledge. But
yeah, I thought you have like a billionaire chat group or like every billionaire just kind of says the back-channel of what's going on. They do not have like, a billionaire
WhatsApp have that but I don't have any Insider Knowledge from that particular chat group a quick break to let you know that today's episode is brought to you by the side. Hustle Pro podcast a podcast hosted by Nicola Matthews account.
Kome, which is also on the HubSpot podcast Network. So the side hustle podcast is focused on people bringing their side hustles, into making them their full-time. Gigs, making them big businesses and so she's got a bunch of really interesting episodes. Her most recent episode is about a woman who was popular on Instagram and create a bunch of products and brought it into Target and get it into retail stores, which is really really hard. She has a few other episodes on changing the relationship with money and building a healthy, emotional relationship with money, which is something we talked about here, which is definitely
Lee challenging, mastering self-talk. And then also how to have a plan for the year and put it into action and much more. So go check it out side. Hustle Pro wherever you get your podcasts. All right, everyone on the podcast. About last year, one of the best guests we've ever had. Was this guy named Neil? Patel is kind of controversial because he said that he was spending two hundred thousand dollars a month, which is a ton of money. And the truth is, even though it's controversial, everyone was asking about him and if we can get them on again, well, I've got good news.
News because he has a podcast. And today's episode is brought to you by his podcast, it's called marketing school and it's a daily marketing. Podcast brought to you by Neil Patel the guy we had and his partner, Eric Sue. So they share all types of stuff about marketing business investing. And your friends will think you are a marketing genius, so check it out. You can just search marketing school on your favorite podcast platforms or on YouTube. So search marketing school on YouTube and check it out. My sense here is that building large language models as open as
Is doing, is this like supremely Capital intensive which is rare for a software company which is what they are so expensive, they needed access to Capital. I think please structured it such that it does cap the prophets, I think they've done. If you had to do that, Canelo, we're going to have to spin off and have this for profit thing. They did it well and I could be wrong. But Sam Altman, seems like a reasonable rational non-evil guy. I mean, he's a capitalist fine. And I mean that in the most positive way possible, but I don't think he was out to miss.
Lead anyone, I think he's trying to solve some big problems
so there's a bunch of ways we can go with this a, I think. But I want to share something funny. So I basically cleared my calendar this whole week and I just treated it as a i week because I was like, dude, I can't I can't just sit here and hear the music at this party. Just bumping at the house next door. And I'm over here knitting and I'm like, I got to put this down. I gotta go see what's going on at this party. And so I cleared my calendar and I just spent every day this week just messing around with AI tools, just getting to play play with it for myself. That's how I learn is by like
Just messing around and trying to experiment, do things I want to share with you guys something funny. Basically I stitched together if you AI tools I was like let me make an intro song for the podcast using AI. So I went on chat GPT and I told it I said, I'll just all I wrote, write an intro wrap for our podcast, my first million, our key phrase is no small boy stuff. Okay? So here's it gave me a full wrap but I was going to read you the chorus. So it goes, here's how it goes. It goes, no small boy stuff. We on that grind. My first million is time to shine. We talked a big
Ino, pennies do with dimes together, we climb one step at a time and it starts. So it gives us this. This great rap that's on on brand. And then I took that and I found this guy Roberto who had made this demo where he turned his voice wrapping into Kanye and I don't know if you've seen this but it got like a million views is this incredible thing where and he's like yeah do this crazy? He's like I didn't make this. He's like I was just on Reddit and I saw that someone uploaded a Kanye voice model so I clicked it and he did.
Literally, the thing is that I should make, I should make a YouTube video about this, like, just how to do this one process, but basically it's a Google collab folder which is just like a Google little coding interface, so you don't have to write any code. It just, here's the, here's the place to run the code and then it's a link to Megaupload. The Megaupload is where he hosted the Kanye voice model with a good. All you do is you record yourself doing what I just did and then it turns into Kanye West, wrapping it and it sounds exactly like Kanye, it's amazing and so
And it takes literally like 15 minutes to do the whole thing. There was like nothing else to do. It was so easy. It was
crazy and so was it good?
Yeah. It's incredible but I'll send you the clip.
After are we allowed to use Kanye's voice for? I think, I think you're
like a 10. Second thing is not a problem. It helps fight gets sued, well, who cares? None of us here, would bother would worry about that. So well, yeah, that's our mesh.
Well, it started our matches. The CTO co-founder of HubSpot, by the way, which I don't know how big the team.
Is now, but like somewhere between the three and five thousand Mark over 7,000. But oh my God, 7,000, my bad and the market cap of the company varies from 15 to 25 billion over the last couple years. So you have like and you're like constantly tinkering. So you have wordplay which is a project that you made that I think you said had millions of people playing it. You have an interesting insight and in this just from your perspective at HubSpot and you're actually using all this stuff, what excites you about this generative? AI thing and
Also say that like you're like, why is Bill Gates excited? That's a great, that's a great headlight. And like, immediately, I'm like, okay, you've got me interested. Any time I had light says, why Bill Gates, is buying Farmland, I click a couple things. I think that the listeners and viewers, I think would be interested in benefit from one is most of the discussions around generative Ai and around the color generation of either text to text that said, oh right me a blog post up, 300 words on this particular topic or its text to image what these Dolly to our major near stable diffusion.
Or something like that which are great, use cases and they kind of capture the imagination because as humans we are very impressed with when software can actually generate or create something and that's awesome and then not to take away from that. But there's a third use case that almost nobody talks about which is the ability to go from text to coat.
And so what happens there is to say, okay and what this leads to is the thing that Bill Gates is excited about, I'm excited about is that you can take a natural language. Plant that describes something and then generate, Cade that does that thing as a result of which you can now build what I call chat ux or a detector has been used before which is a chat base user experience for software. So right now the way you use most software will gather wood it is web-based or whatever it's a series of clicks and drags and
Touches and swipes because you've got the thing in your head that you want to do. And then you go through you, with your knowledge of the software, you could execute the series of steps at the end of it. You hopefully get the thing you want, whatever it was, you were looking to accomplish with the software and that's what Engineers like we would call an imperative model and a of model, is you give step-by-step instructions that says do this? And then do this and then do this and then do this and then I get the thing.
What natural language allows us to do is use what developer could call a declarative model. Instead of describing all the steps, described the result that you want at the end of the thing. And then, the software does everything in between. So, it's a difference between having a junior in turn that you have to explain that, I want you to go do research on this thing, and this thing, and come back, and then give me the and then a senior plus, you're like, you know, we're digging into this topic on journey of a, I'd like a really well researched awful thing that and here's the outcome looking for. That's it. But right now,
Is it as simple as give me the code for a website that looks exactly like Airbnb. But is red and is for cars or something like that, it could be something like that. It could be something more sophisticated. So we'll look at the like HubSpot example in have spot, you know, which is a CRM software, you know, we have I Repent building tool which is a, I want to build a report that shows me all my subscribers to Hampton over the last 90 days, broken down by geography, and then, who actually, were that deal with Source frame that you can do that, it helps pot, right? You can do that and
Thousand other things in our reporting tool but you sort of have to know how the reporting tool works. You have like HubSpot certified. I think like you have like you've liked train people, how to use HubSpot now you're saying you just text it like a friend like yeah.
It's like, you know English and do you know what you want? You know what? You're right. That's the new requirement not. Do you know how to code not? Do you know how to use HubSpot not? Do you know how to write a SQL query? Its do, you know English and actually honestly the English things also going to go away. It's do, you know any language, do you not speak and do you know what you want? And if, you know those
Things you will get to the answer. Like, I don't know how to code, but my first thing I did during a i week was, I was like, I'm gonna make a website. I'm gonna see, like, how fast I can make a website from code. And so, literally, this is, this is kind of create this, this part kind of blew my mind. So I wasn't surprised that I could make a website using this, but I just, yeah, I just had this. I go tell me how to make a simple website that says hello world in the middle of the page, right. And so then it spits out this block of code, that's like, you know, HTML a lot of our header meta tag title style, right?
It writes the code, and then says, here's your thing, I go. And it says, here's your thing, but it was a local website. Like I could open up my computer, but nobody else could see it is HTML page and I go and so I don't even know how to ask the question properly. But I go, how do I make this? So that my friend, Eugenio can can see this, and it just goes, oh, to make this website viewable online. So your friend Eugenio could see this. You're going to need to host it somewhere. Here's how you could do it. There's a bunch of options, but you can go to net Lo-Fi and it's like it basically walk through how to make an app I think. All right, so that I
Like all right, I get that and it tells me step-by-step go here, click sites, do this, do this. And then I go, when I go to I, you know, I hit a wall which is so common. If you ever try to help somebody with a tech thing, they're going to hit something which is like I don't see it or mine's great out and so that's what happened to me. I go hey for some reason when I go to try to upload my website it's grayed out. It says page a says I can't do it and it goes apologies for the confusion. Here's the problem that was looking for a folder but you're trying to do a file my God and I was like how the hell does this know to?
I'll shoot my issues on some other product or service that part blew my mind. And it literally was like, oh, thank you. And I finished it. And I have the website up now, don't like that was 10 minutes and it was like having a friend, teach me, dude, that's crazy. It was crazy. There was so crazy to me that that was able to happen. I mean it's like the least impressive website in the world because again I asked for a ask for a website that said hello world but you know still and I just made that and again the whole thing ten,
Again, not like some impressive, but what was the fact that it could help? Be navigate some obstacles that I hit along the way. And it could just understand that I didn't have to know how to ask it. How do I set this up with an online? Hosting provider ice? Instead of just said, I want my friend to be able to see this like these were the little. I like I spent all week looking for these little mind-blowing moments and in the first 15 minutes I had to. Because of this was crazy.
Yeah. And there's a couple press to pull on their one. Is this is a relatively new development as well, is that
Is that the kind of AI that we're using now? Is its conversational, right? So you can have a multi-step dialogue with the thing you're trying to do, doesn't have to be like, oh, I describe exactly what I want. Will one step? So, even the cogeneration examples that you might try, what could happen is that you generate the HTML page and either something that the loader doesn't do the thing you want to do and then you can actually tell it. It's like by the way that code that you just gave me is broken in this way or if it's like compiled code let's say a generate python code. You can give it the air masses that you generate this code but it's generating this Arrow when I try to
We run it and we'll come back and say, oh, I'm sorry here, let's try this. So there's this, you know what folks call like a memory to it. So it knows the context of what you're working on and you can cut it early, go through the process. And what's interesting is that you can actually, you know, right now the way we work with most of these a is like okay I'm asking it to do something and it goes does the thing. You can kind of reverse roles as well and say, hey, I'm trying to accomplish. This ask me the questions you need to ask me in order to get to the thing that you want to get
too. Or I'm gonna get right
raised, like interview me versus me.
Telling you what to do because our nice. Exactly sure. What's necessary,
at the risk of be at the risk of turning this into a super, technical thing, I gotta know. So, so I thought what the the way these worked is, it's like autocomplete, basically, you're typing and it's just trying to guess or it's just trying to guess what the next word is. So you ask it a question, it starts the prompt and then it just sort of guesses with some probability what the next word should be because it read a bunch of stuff on the internet. So it knows that usually after you say, you know, the dog wags. Its
Is that tail should come after the dog wags? It's like, when 99 percent certainty is should be tail tail at the end of that. And I thought it's just guessing that but when I use it it really feels like it's understanding me and problem-solving like this sort of like, hey it's grayed out in a. Why can't I do this? It's like oh, that's because of this or I'm getting this error message. What should I do? And it helps me figure it out. Like that doesn't feel like my T9 autocomplete. What? I guess it. Can you give me the Layman's, explanation of like a
Why is this just really fancy autocomplete or is there something more to
it? Well, you know, on some Spectrum, almost everything that you've ever experienced is fancy autocomplete, right? Like that's I think the reason we kind of fall into this trap is that they gross oversimplification of what's actually happening there, right? So GPT free. And now for is, is a reasoning engine. And Sam Altman is talked about this. It's not a knowledge base where it's like. And so people kind of glass Sean's, this fact that all the data that it has is from September, twenty twenty one that I'm going to teach you some new things. That's
Really not what it's about. What they've built is a reasoning engine that says given this set of facts, that it knows about the world based on what was available when it took its last lap snapshot in 2021. How can it try to logically come up with something that that answers the question? So yes at some weave level it's like autosuggest but and I'm not going to suggest that has Consciousness is thinking but we're kind of headed down that path is like it's able to do things that are not explainable by a simple probabilistic model of Auto suggesting next.
Dr. Next word, next token. Next sentence. Ray like, it's, it's gone. Well beyond that. And anyone that still latches onto. Yeah. But it'll at its core is really that. It's like that's like saying all computers are just really kind of zeros and ones arranged, right? It a nice systematic useful order. Well yeah but I didn't tell us about what the thing can do. Are you afraid of this or you like, you know, it's easy, it's easy to read the articles where they were people are freaking out and Sam Altman like was on Lex Friedman's podcast recently and he sounded
See, I'm Eunice and like scary and like he like almost like his hair is always just shuffled and he looks like he's like oh my God, something bad is coming. And I know about it, like that's kind of like the vibe. I get, that's not the worst he's using exactly, but sometimes he does. Are you in that camp? I'm not in that camp, heavily just by Nature. I'm in optimistic and positive by nature. But just, you know, having been around tech for 30 plus years. Now, it's like most new things that come along. Always make us as humans.
Comfortable just like oh what if we took this everything from video game to the internet like all of it is like okay. Well, yes, bad things can be done and yes maybe this is different than all the things that have come before but the way I think about it. Right now, most people talk about is like the AI versus human battle, right? The battle of the ages is like easy. I gonna take over everyone's job the way I think of it is not human vs. AI. It's human to the AI power. It's an exponents amplifying Force for human ability, right? In the same way that computers use originally.
It's like he did. They eliminate some jobs when computers came along. Yes, absolutely. They did but new jobs healers based on that new paradigm which actually created more net value to the world overall, as a result of computers, existing AI to me is another much fancier tool. That's what it is and you know, can it do increasingly complex sophisticated things? Yes. Is there a danger someday that they are the take over the world? I don't think so. I mean not a times.
Its why do you think that smart people think that? So
Oh, Ilan. Clearly thinks that he thinks AI is the most. I think he said it's the most dangerous technology ever. Never invented. Sam Altman talks about it in the same way. He's like we need like the other priority. The reason it opened had existed was to develop a GI in a safe way specifically because in the hands of the wrong person or if this thing decides to take its own directive into its own hands like you know this could be devastating and so it's like is it like calling the atomic bomb a tool or
Like yeah, it's just another weapon, it's like, well, yeah, but this one is this one wipes, everybody out, right. So forget the jobs component because I think, okay, sure. We I think we, I think most people will agree. Yeah, it's going to change some jobs. Can eliminate some jobs and create new jobs and net. We're all move ahead and the world gets better for it. I think the dangerous thing is, like, you can ask this thing to build you a bomb, or you. I think the the test scenario was, like, one of the red team testers. They have this thing called the red team that test the AI before they release it.
And their first question, they ask is, how do I kill the most amount of people with the least amount of effort? And then it starts to give you an answer. It's like, do we are we sure we want that? Like, that's a bit of a scary thing. And then there's the, there's the more extreme examples where you ask it to optimize for something and it you know, like it's reasons that. Hmm these humans are getting in the way of this outcome, they want. Do you want to fix climate change? I got you. I just need to get rid of all you pesky humans, right? Like and so there's an uncontrolled intelligence of
So why do you think that these really smart people like Sam Albans? Got a freaking bunker with like you know, oxygen masks and sulfur and magnesium and everything. He needs to do to make oatmeal like why do these people have these? Like these doomsday things? When, you know, they seem to be not like your average typical prepper right there. They're the most informed people and they feel that way. Does that not scare you?
And do you have one? And where is it? And can I come watch? They'll do you have in your book? These are no, no, no.
Okay, so I am not. We're going to come back to things actually know something about, but I will cook answer the question. Which is, why am I not worried? Or why am I not worried more, as a Sci-Fi plot. And auxiliary question was, why do smart people believe you this thing? I think I already, I already hate your answer. You started off as a Sci-Fi plot, like, I'm out after that. I hear that you're freaking me out already. Yeah, but I mean, it could it, could it happen? Yes, I do. Some smart people believe there's an outside opportunity, but I'm I don't know this for a fact, but my guess.
Is billiard for building bunkers. Well, before GT3 ever came out right? It wasn't. I mean sure things are moving at a fast pace but that's not. I don't think there's a causal effect that all of a sudden, the numbering bunkers is gone up by 800% simply because the APT for was lost. I just don't think that's the case. I think people are worried generally that tend to worry about those things but
well, let's go. Let's go wolf or well, forget the Doomsday thing. You have a couple things one. I want to ask you is you you are an Insider, right? Like we said, you got the billionaire, group chat, what was going on at the Sequoia?
A I haven't any interesting takeaways you got invited to that thing and you know, gets a gold from
that. Yeah honestly I got to experience my imposter syndrome in full force once again, I because it was the kind of Who's Who of a I, you know, both speaking and in the audience only under people and me. And so how do those people
Flex? Because I don't think they're wearing fancy clothes and fancy watches. So what's the flex at the who's, who of AI and that like they got a language model in their pocket. Like what are they
doing? The big Flex in, those kinds of crowds and including this one is
No one feels the need to flex, that's the flex. And we are there to kind of talk about big problems and try to and, and it's a lot of it was kind of practical around. What do people's text acts look like, what are you working on? What's the, what have you learned were actually be taking this? What's the next thing after? You know, we went from kind of the one shop thing to the kind of chat based the chat GPT thing. We're now doing multimodal with DPT for like, what's coming down the pipe that we can, you know, sort of prepare ourselves for what were the most interesting.
Projects as well as predictions on to be applied the things that are already starting to happen now. You know, we've seen the text image text of video is one of the big things now to say, be able to generate, you know, at the end of it all, what they even a feature length film, right till everything, from writing the plot to, then being able to generate like a 60 frames per second, actual kind of video from that thing and we're not there yet. I think it's just moving so quickly, right? That's what happens when you get these kind of exponential or geometrical curves even that it just gets better, really, really fat. So I would not
Surprised looks like by the end of this year that we have a reasonable way to kind of describe in textual form. What we want, who the characters are with the scene is what kind of stylistic attributes we want. We can point it to all. I wanted this done the style of XYZ director or philosopher and it's going to be able to do those things. I think that that's interesting, the natural length of just the interface. So one of the big announcements that happened while I was there at the Sukhoi event. That's a melt when dropped is that, you know, chat GPT has taken off in a big way as we all know hundred million plus users in two months.
Now, do you know what the number is now that was like months ago which is like an eternity ago and AI years and the thing they dropped was they're gonna in add what are called plugins to chat gbt and what that means is that, you know, chat TBT has been a product of open Ai and they have the API. So people can build things that are like chat gbt which I'm doing. We can talk about that a little bit. But what they're saying is we're going to open chat GPT itself, the web app so you can plug into it. So right now, when you interact with chat GPT you can type things and it uses this Corpus food.
21 and its reasoning engine to give you answers back but it can't talk to the internet has access to no proprietary data sources. Can look at the stock price. Can't look at your analytics data hub. Spot has access to none of those things. What they're saying is we're going to now open that up so third-party developers can cut inject those things into the chat CPT experience. So the way I think everyone should be thinking about. This is this is like the App Store was a free iPhone, which is 0. We've got this super popular thing called the iPhone and we have our own apps which is braided. Does these
17 things would now regard, let anyone build apps and so it just broadens the kind of peel. So, it's now instead of being a chat app, a really, really smart one. It's now a chat ecosystem and I think that was actually a bigger drop than GPT for gbd4. Awesome, love it. Use it everyday. But the kind of ecosystem play for chat GPT, I think, is a huge deal. We had Tim westergren, the founder of Pandora. Speak out some of our events and I got to know him. And I was like, Tim, why did Pandora take off? He's like, well, you know,
Are like algorithm and everything for matching songs with pretty good but I had an in with apple and they had known what we are working on and we need and they needed apps when they ever when they wanted to announce it on stage and we were just we spun up a nap relatively quickly and because of that, we had the first mover advantage and he created a significant amount of wealth that way, you know, Pandora, you know it was is, is still pretty big. And when I look back at like these Jeff Bezos interviews on 60 Minutes when Amazon is like four years old. And
I like, I'm always envious. I'm like, well, we know it worked now. And I just so wish that I was like 30 years old back then where I could have just like jumped in and had a very high chance of building something historical or something like, even mildly successful. Do you think that that moment is happening right now where this is the space and it's happening this second and even if you have just a mediocre success, it can still be a huge win because you're catching this tidal wave. Do you believe that? That this is the same thing now? Yes, I'll look at me. Now, once again, I
In software for 30 years. Now doing startups, pretty much my entire professional career. The only time I've felt like heart palpitations, kind of like Duchamp cut open with his. Like there's this party going on next door and I'm here knitting, right? It's like this is like too big to ignore. I think it's the single largest opportunity and biggest kind of tech Paradigm Shift we've seen since the internet originally came out like mobile was big but there was a discrete set of use cases. Like when you put a camera on a phone, when you put a GPS device on a phone, a bunch of consumer apps like uber to others that came up and
Not was awesome, right? But it was not like this impacts everything like the internet did, it's like okay, there's some businesses, some new opportunities, lots of good things, lots of money made, lots of startups. Awesome. This is an order of magnitude bigger than that. This is like the original web because it just opens up for all sorts of Industries, all sorts of businesses startups and incumbents alike, just lots of new opportunity. So this was not my original plan but we're going to get we're going to get off a little bit. We're going to the geekiest thing that's ever been done on MFM and the reason I'm going to
It is so you brought up Pandora and he is a super bright, brilliant guy. And he had the matching algorithm, which was the differentiator, yes, he had access, you got lucky in terms of the access, but the algorithm, if that had not existed at the thing that actually been cooled, it would not have worked out like it did. Now we have an opportunity. So I'm going to tell you we're gonna talk about. I'll give myself two minutes and we're gonna talk about vector embeddings and why that's going to change your world. And before I can talk about Victor embeddings, I'll explain to you how they work because I had to go through this with my 12 year.
Because he was curious. All right, so we're gonna do a super geeky thing. Now, I want you to imagine a line, like if your geometry class and you could put a point on that line that says, oh, that's like three units from the origin, right? It's like, oh yeah, point a is 3 units from the origin and coin B, let's say seven units from the origin. So one thing we know for sure is that we can calculate the distance between those two points, right in that particular case, it's for if you move to two Dimensions now you have two numbers that describe every point. So you can say 0 point, a is here.
These Dimensions point B, is over here with those dimensions. And we can physically, you could probably measure with a ruler, but there are mathematical calculations based on those numbers to calculate the distance. That's intuitive, right? A, you don't need to know fancy geometries like oh, there's a finite distance in two dimensional space where we can calculate distance all the awesome, three-dimensional space exact same thing. Just three numbers to describe every possible, physical point, in three-dimensional space.
Now, here's where it starts to get a little more interesting that just happens to be our experience. So we limit ourselves to three dimensions, imagine in an abstract World, there are a thousand different dimensions. Okay. So abstractly, that means there's a thousand numbers that describe any particular point in this one thousand dimensional space. Okay? Now foul that thought away that says we can have an arbitrary number of dimensions in this abstract World. Okay, great. Now imagine every
Paragraph blog post anything you write, you can reduce down to a point in this 1000 Dimension space. Secondly capture the meaning of sandblast blog post or Sean's last tweet and will it reduce it down to what's called a vector? Which is basically a set of, let's say, 1,000 different numbers that says this thing. If you plotted it, that point Falls right here.
And then you can plot something else just like oh that falls over here and just like in one-dimensional, two-dimensional, three-dimensional space, you can calculate the distance between those things and this is not keyword matching. This is what's known as semantic distance, how related is, Sean's, tweet to Sam's blog post, meaning lies. Okay, Snappy take that, it's like okay, well if you that means you can take any concept and reduce it down to a vector.
That means you can measure the distance between vectors and you can find out how related to things are. Even though they use completely different words,
that's the current Betty. And the reason I'm telling you, this is where the biggest opportunities and AI right now is to do what Pandora did this, okay? Is there an industry where right now? We're doing really stupid keyword-based matching somehow it was very very crude. If I can take that same data set and convert it to vector embeddings, and allow people to find things in a different way than they've ever been able to do before. So it's like Google search Russ, super super smart, not just keyword-based, but for everything else. What's a real life example of this?
So, I'm going to take it to you, Sam. So you have Hampton. Now you're going to build up these profiles, very very rich, profiles of which, in terms of density information, density of members that are part of your community. Now, imagine is part of that process. You're going to have some data and they're going to opt in and there is a sale. Here's what story of how I started my business. Here's a story of my biggest struggle right now and sometimes people get to say, oh my struggle is growth. Sometimes they're going to say, oh my struggle is, it's really hard, being an entrepreneur and has a really negative impact on my relationship and my family, right? And we can talk about lots of different.
And things that's not going to show up in a profile. It's not. Now imagine if he took that content that they opted in its and creative Vector embeddings of every member that you have and then you can say, you know what, I want to find someone that lives in my industry or a company, my size or happens to be my geography. I want to find someone that's dealing with these, kind of founder, of therapy level these shoes here, those people. Let's find the semantic distance between those Vector embeddings across the thousand, ten thousand hundred thousand people that are in Hampton someday, that's a billion dollar idea and that building I go
Idea occurs a billion times across the entire industry,
Sam's. Gonna go to the office for Hampton and be like, guys Victor's embedding well who's Victor? And what's even better? We're doing it. I don't know what it is but we're doing it. That's really though, that's really interesting so you could do that with dating. You could do that with a bunch of different, any different topic and you can do with
unstructured data, but the idea is, you're converting, meaning English text meaning or whatever language text meeting into something that's mathematically calculable as a
Result of which you can distance of that. As a simple one, we could do proximity, like, find me, the top 10 people that are either radius of x from where I am right now in the minimum has to be this in order for it to be close enough of a mash to for it to be considered and by the way the technology but today that mere mortals in a weekend could actually build a vector, embedding model of a given data set. It's not that hard. I mean it's not like rocket science be hard. This is existed though. You and was so what makes this better you think? And also that assumes that the people telling you information, right? Which is
For example, I remember reading about OkCupid and people would say, like one particular thing they had was about was about race and height, and they would like, people would say they are open to dating these types of races, but their actions were different. There's a whole book called, I forget what it was but you guys will probably, you know, I'm talking about where people say one thing, but their Google search history, says something totally different. The condensed technology work. Even if people aren't telling you entirely accurate things, it depends on what your definition of work is, right? So in that example, I would bet you money with a large enough sample size.
Eyes of the inauthentic post would be uncovered by the AI like a relatively quickly. Like the pattern matching would say, you know, this actually doesn't occur in real life, all that often. And every other time we've seen this, we've had people that ended up being at least have to have some sort of like an eval functions. Like how do you measure the success of what the algorithm is doing in Pandora's tastes like, okay. Do you actually like the songs is recommending to that's the gun Arbiter of Truth in a dating app. It's like, okay, well, are people liking the matches that are being made or if they're they felt that they were missed.
Ad that shows up and there's got to be some feedback loop. There's got to be a way to train the system. Right says, here's what good looks like and here's what not good looks. Now
Sam you said something like, oh, they have to tell you, the meaning, no, they don't actually have to tell you the money, right? Because they, I can interpret the meaning summarize the meaning it can. It can guess the meaning based on whatever the raw, the raw text is the public text is. So you could just tell a story about your life and they I would infer or place a tag, some meanings to the story that you told that oh, this is about overcoming hardship or this is
But whatever. So I don't think you actually have to get the participant to, to give you the meaning. But let me ask you to our mesh. Like, in Pandora's case, I don't know how Pandora works. But let me just guess for a second. Like it probably takes the tempo of a song and it's like, oh, this is a fast tempo song. It probably takes, you know, maybe the key that it's in or something like that, that that gives you like, is this upbeat and joyful thing or a sorrowful, you know, mood song. So it gets like mood Tempo artist and like whatever a couple of key
characteristics. Like there's instruments in terms of what's actually in the thing and
So that he had, right? And he's talking about this publicly, in terms of the number of factors that go into that algorithm, that it looks either way. When they first started, they did it all by hand. So we had like 500 x musicians, listening to it and like, writing down, like, checking boxes to what it was. It was pretty wild.
So let's say they did it, they use attributes. And if I want, let's say I wanted to do this in fashion. I say oh man, I love Sam's jacket. I want to find something similar jackets, but can you match this to me? One way would do. Okay, Sam jacket. Let's say it's blue.
Blue, it has buttons. It has blah blah. All right, you take attributes and those are attributes. The same thing as meaning in this case, or is this more for things that are like text-based and content? You know, like content that has some meaning or does this work for everything,
it can work for everything. And we're still kind of uncovering because this stuff is kind of moving so fast. So what you're talking about is what we've been using an e-commerce forever today, which is a faceted search that I have a number of dimensions are factors size color, right? What type of clothing is it all those things? And then you kind of
This faceted search and then we've had kind of pure Tech space. The key word is semantic search this sort of steps in between. So that instead of having to tell it here, all the facets that I'm interested in, it kind of pulls those things out that are relevant based on that large language model. And this is so the idea of vector embeddings and semantic search has been around for a long time. That's not new. What's new is these new generative models. Now, that are much, much better at understanding all of like, documented public human knowledge. And then using that to say, oh, like when you use this word, when you use coach,
In the context of a relationship, you're probably talking about, like, a therapist. Is just a different word, right? Like, that's horrible, you're talking about anyway. So it's more about the meeting and in Furs, or figures out what the dimensionality is, and that's how it kind of translates into those vectors.
And by the way, there's a couple of these companies, I just saw one pine cone. That's like some Vector David. These things are getting value to your
point, by the way, that's what's that Pine. Coal is the number one, vector database. So, let's say, you had to take these vectors and put the lead in somewhere. Would you do in order to be able to do searches pinecones and Emeril?
Monitor and most popular
commercial think they just raise it like a seven her million-dollar valuation or something, something when it's and there's like three of these that just raised these Mega rounds and that's what you know. I don't even I didn't even know. This is so funny. You just came on here, being like let's talk about this super Niche, nerdy thing. Just yesterday I was like to do go figure out what a vector databases and why these companies are raising so much money. Like this is clearly a big deal and I don't know what this, I don't know exactly what this means but now it makes a lot more
sense. Come comes full circle. Sean, so you know what? Maybe it wasn't as geeky as I dislike is actually useful, right? So we talked about the therm headings
A vector database is something you put Vector embeddings in and allows you to do the mathematical operations on vectors versus like a traditional database that has you know a bunch of text in it. You've done an awesome job explaining and like the theory and I'm like, literally sitting on the edge of my seat thinking like this is crazy. And you answered that question where I said is this like the new internet opportunity-wise and you're like yes absolutely. But when you're making the stuff what are some of the tools that you're using to you know, to actually you said this isn't rocket science and someone could figure this out in a weekend. What do you
Tools are using to do all this. Yeah, but means the language-wise the most common is python that seems to have emerged as like lingua Franca of the AI world not to say, you can't write it in typescript or pick your language of choice and then tools that are emerging, it's still early, right? The Pinecone, we talked about, there's another one called, it's an open source project called Lang chain, and
it does not. I asked, I asked somebody else. I was like, how do I is this a company? Can we have asked as everywhere? I look in these like AI hackathons. It's all about layering chain and it's like, yeah, no, it's not really even a company. It's just open source project. There's a guy who made
It it but in his running it but it's not even a company,
correct? It's this not a company yet, but you know what way is it good? Is it in the lane Crist but Blaine chain. Oh, yeah. I'm playing as a language chain. Oh, okay, link chain. And what it does basically is it lets you chained together. So, right now, will we work with large language models? We kind of send in a prompt what's called a prompt and then you may be set it to another thing to do something else. And there's like a multi-step process amongst other things. Liang, Chen, helps you kind of chain those things together and makes it easier for you to kind of work with either, an individual large language,
Like GPT for or gate class models and then kind of do a lot of the kind of connecting the dots sound and help you with that. But it's a swear useful Library, we missed the
chance to give an example more tangible examples. You talked about the plugins thing. I think, you know example, use case here and tell me if I'm wrong because I haven't nobody's very few. People have access to the plug and sing. So I'm just kind of sort of guessing, but like, if you go to chat GPT today and you say, hey I'm going to go visit Austin in April. I'm there for four days. I'm with my family. Make me a travel itinerary that is going to be fun family-friendly. We want to good.
Food and maybe do a little bit of sightseeing. When not too much it will spit out a day-by-day itinerary for you. Okay. That's kind of kind of interesting. Now let's say oh I need I want I'm trying to figure out where to stay, what hotel should I stay at it? You know. Here's some things that are important to me and it will give you a table. That's I here's option. One option, two option. 3. Here's the cost. Here's the whatever. Right? And they it can it can do something like that. And with the ability for plugins you can now say cool kid who just booked that for me and it will just be like great. We have the Expedia plugin
You have the Airbnb plug-in and it will just go ahead and booked it for you. And so you know do you need an executive assistant? Do you need a travel agent? When you could do these things do you need you know the same thing with Hub solder Salesforce. Oh you know give me a list of this and it gives you a list of that cool, put that in an air table for me and or put that into Salesforce and tag the highest value opportunities as blink. It'll just go and do that for you and it's like, it'll give you the link to your Salesforce dashboard was like, well, that's kind of cool, like, no, that's a task. That's, um, you know, I would normally have a human
Go do because now open a are chat GPT is not just gonna chat you an answer, it can do things as long as the programs that let you. You know, they'll build the interface so that chat GPT can actually interact with those things.
Yeah. And this is actually a great example and we can use that to kind of open up the doors for the the viewership listenership, which is okay. So travel which is something we all kind of interesting Lee know how it understands. Some of us might remember the evolution away from travel agents and the first thing we did when we had web-based kind of travel
Is that we treated very transactional is I'm looking for a flight from X to Y sorted by descending pain, sorted by Price, whatever happens to be in fewest stops, Louis time, whatever it is and they do a pretty good job of that. Like a man, most of us have used one of those and what's going to be possible. Now in this kind of new AI world is instead of solving for the transaction you solve for the experience. And what I mean by that is that o, if you had an all-knowing assistant that was super smart in scored. You got a perfect score on their sat and is, was gonna go out, and they're just like, okay,
what you're really looking for is to solve for this experience, you're going to want to stop by this thing, and you're going to want to find a hotel that's around and michelin-rated restaurant because you only have 15 minutes to get between this point and that point, and I'm going to pull the whole thing together for you owned. By the way, your wife's going with you on this trip, I know she likes that right now from them. Lay would have put you over here, but this time going to put you over there. Oh, and by the way, I know a week ago, you were at this other thing and you had mentioned that you would actually like to follow up with some of those people. I'm gonna see if I can make that happen as an interpreter, all of that right? But imagine it knows.
Think about you as access to the transactional engines to book. The flight has access to all the information to get ratings and reviews and all that comes together in one, chat based interface, that's the future fucking insane. This is crazy. Is this why you bought chat.com, right? I did as a transfer, the domain. Yesterday class that I said you paid, you just said, eight figures. So, 10 plus million unless you're including the dot 0 0, as a figure, and you really ought to first 100 grand. And I'm so this is a HubSpot domain, then couple things. So if you go to chat,
Calm. It will take you to a LinkedIn post, that tells me who tells you? Why? Why I did it and so the details. So I bought it personally. Wow. And the reason is because this conversation we're having right now, which is, I think chat as a experience, as an interface is the future, right? It's like that's the thing. And no intense currently to can build something out on it, but it's the domain I think it was like, doorman for like 30 years or something like that. Wow, this is insane. I'm reading your post now. It's pretty wild. Do you have? Are you using
Spot employees, like do you have like a skunk's Works team inside of HubSpot that's just working on all this wild stuff? Or do you have like a side LLC or something? Where you got like a handful of people on staff and you say, like here's what I'm interested in this week. Let's see what we can come up with. So the way it's working now is that there will be times where I'll do something as a hop. Like wordplay is a good example where I'll build something on the side, just for fun, for learning, whatever it is. I foot the bill for board. No, no stop. Stop PLS are harmed and then there are times where like something kind of winds up being. So I started
This project called chat spot because I'm obsessed and we will take a walk down memory lane because I think it's instructive. So I built this application called chat spot da Ki and the idea here was you built it or a team? Mostly Me by you. I don't have a front end design skills. I've got some Freelancers on it. Side used Open, the Eyes apis to build it but my kind of Target goal thing I had in my head is I built it for myself. Like here are things I need to do all the time and I'm pissed off that I have to do the manually every time and this has been the story of my life for 30 years.
Right? Like solve my own problems and then other people may or may not find those things interesting and useful and so I built it about. Okay, here's the thing they wanted to do like access HubSpot. I want to be able, look at my eyelids from yesteryear, ask questions or a couple domain name where I wanted to see the history of a domain name. I like all these things as like, okay, Wally I don't what I like and I have all this software, a lot of it just built and I just run it from the command line. I do things. And so I then I'm like, okay, I can wrap this up into a chat based interface and so but now given the relevance to help spot and we're going to transfer that projects chat.
Spot dot AI to be a HubSpot staffed core team. This is going to change. The world is going to change the world of CRM. Let's go do this, which is great. So, and my
way, but hold on. What are you doing with chat? That cam, what's the plan you bought this amazing domain, you redirected to your LinkedIn post with basically just tells about the purchase. But what are you actually going to do on the
domain? I don't know yet. That's the honest answer. I do not know
yet. Amazing. Okay, so we could, we could help you
brainstorm. Yeah, we can we can definitely do that. By the way, the chat spot.
That a I did you go to that Sean? It's a simple looking websites, one page and there's a 19-minute video of door mesh sitting in the exact same chair. Do it is
way bigger. Hey, it's me and it looks almost
like I but he's really good at these videos. It's almost like he's reading a script, but you come up naturally, I don't know if it's a script or not, but it has 200,000 views and it's a 19-minute video of him. Talking about what this product is and you do the best combination of like launching something really quickly and getting it out there. It's just you on
In your chair talking and yet, it's like a pretty sophisticated thing, and it has 200,000 views on this video over just about that's wild to
me. I gotta give you credit duress. You, you are kind of amazing, like, you know, you said a bunch of things in this podcast. And I don't know how many of them I'm going to remember, maybe the vector thing, because I'll enjoy that math lesson. But the main thing is, I go around my life now and I just looking for people who I'm, like, I wanna be like you, when
Up and I'm just taking little things from them and they could be, I could be like a, you know, a 17 year old kid who's just like doing something awesome on Tick-Tock and I'm like, I want to be like you when I grow up the guy who made that Kanye vocal like Transformer, I was like, I want to be like you, when I grow up, I'm just taking a little pieces, and you have a couple of things that I think are kind of amazing. You have a combination of enthusiasm, like, you come out of this podcast, if you are pumped. So, you are as excited in your 30 or maybe more if you're 30 of your entrepreneurship.
Career as you were in year one. And I'm like this, this is great. That's the Fountain of Youth. Is that enthusiasm? So if like he's got the enthusiasm, then I feel like no matter what's happened, the matter, how much success you've had, you've kept your schedule and your use, you invest your time into things you like. So like you tinkering on this project whether it's wordplay last time you came out you told us about that like weirdos awesome but I got annoyed with these things so I made a being my son built this project together and like you know to teach him but also to just make the thing we want.
Ed like look at this, it kind of works even if it didn't work, it was still been worth it. So like having that kind of like I'm always going to Tinker because that's what I love to do. It doesn't matter that I'm the you know, top dog at this. You know, multibillion-dollar public company. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing the thing I like to do. So I love that love that aspect of it. Third, you are really great at content. You do this like dorky form of content that's just like, hey, it's me. I'm going to show you this thing that I'm pumped about it.
Like you don't overthink it and you just do it. Whereas like, I think most people get really gun shy when it comes to content. There are afraid about like, you know, how to do it, what it looks like. You're just like, oh no, I'm just gonna like, I'm gonna say the thing that I'm excited about. I'm going to say it and I'm gonna do a screen share, it'll just be me and my screen and I'll be talking about what I'm doing and I love that and then the last one is guts. So I feel like you put your money into things, you believe in whether it's philanthropy or in this case, buying a 10 million dollar plus domain name.
With no plant. Like you just said, it's like you did the the fire Ready? Aim like yeah, bought the thing and now I get to figure out what the hell I'm gonna do with it. And I think that takes a lot of guts and I don't think you see things as risky as other people see them and it's not really about like I think the easy way of saying it would be. Oh yeah. Well it's you know that's nothing to him he's got a lot of money. Yeah I don't think that's true. And I know a lot of people a lot of money and they don't do things like this where they just put their money behind things that they're in.
They believe in or they're interested in or almost like, would you do? I don't know if you would agree with this it's almost like you and eat up. So that now you're forced almost to do something awesome and interesting in the space that you think has a lot of
potential. But then there's this in this last thing is this rare combination of like, and I mean, this in a polite way of which I am also that like this nerdy nerdiness quirkiness of like I'm just doing it cause it's cool. Plus, I'm this way can make money. I mean, you have a plan a way that makes code. Yeah, you have this company that has close to 2 million in bit too.
Alien in revenue and as a commercial success and then Artistry of like this is beautiful. This is awesome. I'm gonna do this. It's a very rare combination. Thank you. Think how do you respond to all these compliments careful. I'll say this if I had to share any kind of advice over the, you know, 30 years is that when I've done best is when I had the courage of my convictions of something that I believe in something to tell you like, a quick story of the road that led to me, buying a 10-plus million-dollar delay name,
I almost like said the number actually number out loud. I have to kind of catch myself. But and so 17 years ago, I had it. I'd this is before HubSpot. I had this idea and the idea was everyone was using kind of email and Outlook back then this is before the iPhone before all the things just like you know what business software is really hard to talk to, I'm going to do it just like I would email my assistant. I didn't have an assistant but let's assume I did you know I just want to be able to do that and type of email up is it Hammer like oh I have this file in our shared file server. In SharePoint somewhere can you send me a link to that file about to hop on a plane? I
Add that for the sales call. I'm gonna go on for for meeting tomorrow or I'm on the plane coming back. I just ran to this person, whatever I've got their business card right here. This is before the iPhone, and you can do OCR and things like that is, like, I'm just the type that in and send his. I just add this to to like contact, you know, database whatever. And the beauty of email was it already had a disconnected model we'd already figured that out which is 0 you can be on a plane to have no inner fit internet type. All emails you want respond to all the emails you want and then when you connection, it does all the things right. This is an automatic synchronized database, essentially and I call the product in general
No male and that's what I'm going to do. Beforehand sighs. Okay. Like that would be an interesting thing and then five years ago like okay well that in general thing, the core of it was a good idea but emails the wrong. Conduit actually needs to be like a web-based tool but the or slack which I did both. So I built this product called growth box. Talk about our Liam, downstage got thousands of users, you threw it out there and it was awesome. Except for one thing, it didn't work.
A like it couldn't actually do the natural language understanding that I wanted to do, despite my best. I used products that you giggle called dialogue. Floyd's products from Facebook least, open source projects to try and crack the nut of taking text understanding. What the hell, the user was trying to do anyway, so that failed and then, you know, Angie Beatty comes along like, oh, you know, that thing I've been thinking about for 17 years. That actually is now possible. So, I start working on chest but today I am like, okay,
It took 17 years but I want to prove myself right out of Courage of my convictions all the way through to never. Let go of that one idea and then chat.com comes along. It's like okay, like deep down inside, I will give you the true honest-to-goodness reason I bought it, the reason I bought it and this is I think a phrase Sam. You just use. It is, it's the ante. So I'm trying to get into the AI party.
All the AI parties and I'm nobody in that particular party, right? I've done some things in some places, fine, but that particular group of people has no idea who I am not. Really. So chat spot moves me in that direction is like, I was some people have seen that video. Awesome shot.com for, let's try even break. Even let's say I lose a few million dollars it is worth the price of admission for me just because that pays the cover charge was like okay this guy gets it for him to spend that kind of money on chat ux.
Bill Gates just talked about last week as the the new thing. So you should read that article but they stood an article around why he is so excited about this Jerry of AI stuff. He told the entire story of how he came across some old man and open a.i., the child, he put the delegated and his I'm going to paraphrase. He said, when we went from daus to Windows, which is, we went from a character based interface to a graphical Mouse, space click in touch interface. That's the thing we built Microsoft on which lasted for decades and they said since then there has been nothing.
Alien technology that has come along literally. He said nothing that has come along, that has made a door will make as big of an impact as its natural language interface to software. It's the biggest thing we've seen and hence chat.com. While the scary is have the courage of your convictions. If you truly truly believed in an idea and you fundamentally think you're right iterate? Don't just go down the rabbit hole. Tell everybody you can't about it, built products around it find other like-minded, folks, and try to pull on that thread. Would you ever quit HubSpot and just spend all your time on this stuff?
I don't really need to write, its I enjoy what I do at HubSpot. I think I add value there, and that a dollar salaries, that's not the not the money at all. I'd even on the, like, the chat spot thing at the time that I built, it was experimental. I'm like, okay, I'm not sure if this actually a cruise into something that would be valuable to have spot. So, spent like half a million dollars plus, um, like freelance developer is an opening. I license fees at all the things that need to go into launching a product like that, and I'll end up giving it to up spot for a dollar, right? I'm not looking to make money him.
Aren't you like I don't want to be weighed down by this, baggage of like having to worry about CRM stuff or your the title. Your title is CTO. Like, I don't want to have to talk to certain people and take up meetings on like the future of this particular product. Instead, I just wanted to just nerd out on all this other stuff, but I do that now. So I cut one thing, one of the things I've, this is a personality called a trait / flaw, is that I spend most of my life trying to configure the universe to my liking all on flares. Really do this, right? That's one of the reasons they kind of go into start-up. Land is leaves the freedom in the control.
You things you want to do. And so I've kind of crafted a role for myself with an up spot that allows me to do exactly the things I want to do and not do any of the things. I don't want to do which is one-on-one meetings that I can manage. People. Have no direct reports. I've never filled out an expense sheet. I jacked look how do none of that. I feel I don't know about you Sean. I feel like I want to quit everything I'm doing. Like, he's just persuaded me. I kind of,
bro. You just launched yesterday. No, it's over. I feel it's over.
So here's my advice to you,
bam. So my advice to you, is Hamptons a cool idea with actual utility and Shawn. You said this, in the last thing, like this could be a hundred million dollar business worth anywhere from three hundred million dollars to a billion plus dollars. And I think you're right, if you're excited about some of the new technology developments that's happening. I think, the best thing you can do is they intersect at two things, it's like, okay, I'm going to build Hampton, and to take the things that I know, I know how to build communities. I know how to build these kinds of businesses. Now, can I get intersect that with things that are happening in?
Technology sector around AI or veteran, but whatever happens to be and then it could have somehow merged those two things. Because then you'd be unstoppable Force, right? Because no one in the community building market doing niche market communities is thinking about or having conversations about a vector embeddings. I promise you that. So you don't have to give up one for the other. You can say. Yeah, let's do that. I'm going to do it better than anyone else has ever done it
but I have a different advice for you. Sam. I think just get dug in into your position instead. I
Member when you were doing the hustle originally and Snapchat came out and Instagram was like popping off on videos and and Facebook had videos. And then there's other media companies that we're raising tons of money that we're just like, we're going to produce short form video content, or live video content on top of Facebook, and cheddar was all the rage, all the stuff and I was like, dude, why aren't you doing videos, man? Look at this. Look at these guys. They're getting millions of views on their videos on Facebook or these guys getting millions of views and the Snapchat story feed. You could be the first one there it fits your
Kids and you were like, just very steadfast. You were like three things. Number one, don't understand it. A lot. Yeah, I don't really understand it. I understand this other thing too. I could try to figure it out but I don't want to build on top of their platforms because they change the rules all the time. I have friends have got burned by that. I don't want to get burned by that same thing. I don't want to build on a shaky Foundation. I'd rather do email because I own the thing. I own the relationship with the audience and it's not like the Facebook. Our algorithm change is one week away from from putting me out of business.
And I remember being like, man, this guy is like Stone mr. Stone Age. Like he is just not not integrating or adapting to the new shit. I was like I wouldn't there's no way if I was running the hustle I would have been able to resist the shiny object of like video on mobile phones and like it turned out milk video. Mobile phones, did turn out to be a big thing but a lot of those company media companies got absolutely wrecked and you were right for for being wary of it. And I don't think in this case, people are going to get wrecked because it's not like you know the knowledge is not one-to-one.
But I would say you know Warren Buffett missed the internet and all of technology and still did Fantastic Sam. I think you're going to be in that same boat or like it is not really in your nature to get really interested in. You know, New Frontier Technologies and play with them and try to integrate them. And that's not really your nature and your better your best served by like, knowing your nature and just doubling down on what's a working formula for you. I guess, so I would appreciate that. Especially I think because there's gonna
Be a man, a trillion people trying to do fancy, I shit who are better suited to do that and it's going to be an absolute bloodbath for. You know, for like go look right now at the number of AI tools that are coming out every single day and
you know, mostly I'm do seem shit though. You're right. I mean
like but it doesn't matter if it's just swarms of, they're all going to get just like wiped out with every GPT release wipes out a whole wave of like even the successful ones because it's like, oh no, that's just a feature of chat GPT and so, I don't know. I think it's like know your nature.
Like, you know, it's okay to not have to do every unless that's your nature. Unless like, for dress it is, his nature, for me. It is a lot more my nature than it is yours. And there's pros and cons that come with
that. Are you gonna go in? I mean, Sean, Sean's got a new idea that he's taken with and he's been telling me a little bit about it. That I have one piece of tactical advice I have to share with you Sam on on here. Yeah I was I was going through the application process on Hampton last night like 2 a.m. and this is super tactical but this is what we do here on FM. If the number 9 on the
Allocation process is. What are you question? Mark, it's a required question. Good. The subtext is CEOs. Founders and Carter's only please. That's the subtext. The options are founder/ceo owner and other the one thing I would tweet if I were you. So what you're doing is you're saying hey we're about Founders and owners and if you're not one of them don't bother. Thank you for not bothering go away. So focus is a magical thing. I love that but you're doing what I call a priest.
Sir, right? Which is why not say oh, this is for CEOs, older to whatever. Don't make me feel guilty for both addressed the process because there may be a future version of Sam and Hampton that says all, you know what? We solve this problem, but that same problem you're around. People needing Farabee from peer groups, applies a lot to like, vp's a product and that Community right now, to all the only companies that can find are people that want to talk about product management and no one wants to talk about relationships and there's an opportunity there and so it costs, you literally nothing. They'll answer the question.
It'll be sitting here database for a year or forever and it costs you nothing. Don't, don't push them out too early. It should have been the way you suggested. I apparently I didn't give that feedback. Grant if you're listening
this is a direct order from Darvish changed question. I'm pleased.
Yeah, but Sean, you're telling me. Thank you dumbass Shawn. You were telling me about stuff that you're thinking about. Yeah, and it was pretty, it was somewhat old
Like what your the thing is. So are you like questioning that after this conversation and you're like oh my this is like not after
this conversation necessarily but it's a snowball that's building right? Like there's a reason I clear my calendar to just mess around with a I've all week, because I'm interested in it and it's like, let's go see what's real there. And I did the same thing with crypto during that during, you know, when crypto is really interesting intriguing, I was like, okay, let me go try to Minton nft, let me go try to actually use defy and see what's going on here and what parts make sense of what parts don't make sounds. Oh, that was pretty.
Frictionless like that's cool that I could just like get a loan and one button and I can pay it back in one button. I never had to talk to him and being like I really like that. Hey this thing says the yield is 20%, I don't really understand where they would get 20% from, so not sure but I'm going to, you know, put a small amount of money and just to learn. I was trying to play with it. Trying to think for myself is the big idea and it's not like some binary thing like is crypto. Good is crypto bad? It's like I want to know where it's at right now. I want to see it. Develop and my best way to do that is immersion is used
This from the from Bill Gates. Bill Gates does his reading week where he goes to a cabin and he reads a shit ton of books for a week about one topic that it's like been on his mind. But he hasn't had the appropriate amount of time to roll up his sleeves and dig in. And I was like, oh that. But without books, just give me, you know, Chrome browser and I'm good to go. And so that's what we've been doing and they're genuinely are so many like, mind-blowing moments and also just like understanding the nuances of things. So for you like just being able to think like the computer like you know you were talking about these facets for example, so I
Playing around with mid-journey like Sam. Do you know what my journey is or do you know how to use?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I just didn't goofing off and I'll just be like, show me what Cartman from South Park? Looks like as a real person,
right? And like, you know, I was like can I was what the way I approached it was? Can I replace work that I already want to do with a more efficient? AI workflow that was like one of the things and then it was what's really fun? Random shit I could do, I want to be on those ends of the spectrum, like, highly utilitarian for me. So it's like, oh, I need a logo for my thing.
But I do want you like a logo. I want to create a whole brand. All right, how can I use AI to create a whole brand here. So from the icons to t-shirt designs to a website. Can I do that with just Ai and not have to touch. It does not have to hire a dis single designer and can I do that with just like my own imagination and this prompt thing and then, oh, how do you do prompting and like, which of these tools is the best. And what's the difference? So, that was like, one whole area. Another was like, we took the podcast and we did this thing that was kind of sick. We took the
Cast and we ran it through this thing. So we took the Pod and we then used open air has this thing called whisper, which transcribes any video? So it's like Puttin a YouTube link to this tool. It'll take a whisper and it'll give you the transcript. All right, cool. It takes a transcript. Then I put it into chat GPT and we had this guy, right? This little prompt for us, we had to get the right prompt, but he wrote this prompt that was awesome. Which is basically like it's pretty funny goes because Chad TV can only take so many characters. So it goes I'm going to
Going to give you 19 text sections. I don't want you to do anything until you're at section 19. So ignore everything until I'm done with 19 and then answer the prompt that I give you and Jessie was like, okay, I will I will wait for the 19 Parts. You copy paste part. 1 2 3 4, all the way to 19 and then you go. The prompt is, I want you to pull out every idea, story and framework, that's discussed. In the podcast. I want you to summarize it and I want you to tell me, does this idea exists already or not exist? It can guess based on The Way We Were
Talking about it. Are we talking about something we saw that exist or just an idea that somebody should go do. So, like from this pile they would be like using this Vector, you know, a Dimensions or feral child, Vector engine or whatever, to potentially create a dating site that would match people in ways that they're, you know, sort of similar using using Ai and it would be like, does this idea exists know who is the source of this our mesh? What was the the synopsis of the idea blank? What is the category that it's in Ai? And so, then it took that and it takes the whole
And it just created a database of every story framework and idea from the thing with these tags. And now a human can go back and like tweak them if something was wrong. But like, that's a lot of the work that was done and I we could just do this for the whole backlight back, catalog of our podcast. And so I'm trying to use it first for my own benefit and then along the way, if I see a business of startup idea that I'm like, oh, somebody should productized this or somebody should do whatever. Like you know the simple example is this Kanye thing.
I was like, why is this not the most viral app in the world right now that basically the app with a one button that says, say something and then it's going to when you, when you let go of that button, it's going to turn it into Kanye saying that thing and go share that to tick tock and like you might get sued, but you will go viral, right? There's like, that's the trade there, but I'm like that's crazy. There's no front end for this really cool, you know, AI demo that exists now. So, yeah, I'm just right now, I'm in the go play around with it. See if anything really, really strikes me and if something
As then and then take the next steps.
There's one thread in there. Sean, that I think we should pull on which is you use, you talked about this kind of crafting of the prompt in order to kind of make the thing, do what you needed to do, and that's entirely new skill, now called prompt engineering, right? And it's analogous to software, engineering software engineering is getting a computer to do what you want by speaking to it in its language. And that way you can kind of get the results you're looking for well until you nearing is almost exactly the same thing. Except you're talking to a large language model, something like that.
EPT for to kind of get it to produce, to take me to a, i to get it to produce the thing that you want. And so I think this is another good opportunity for folks that are kind of Technology minded, but not like software Engineers, right? So they kind of can think about the problems, their head, their can get it, and they may be good writers, and maybe good. L of this, they may be good at kind of scribing the thing that's, like, prompt engineering is going to be like, another big thing and by the way, as long as we're dropping things. So I bought two domains recently, I'll buy one, get one free. Yeah.
I wish for this one back eight figures seven figures and the domain is prompt.com. Oh my God. And this one actually have an idea around what kind of what to do with that, which is there's going to be this entire not gonna give details of it yet because it's too good of an idea to actually just put out there in the world and I'm not I'm not ready yet to do something about it, but once I got away, prompt prime time goes to like a coaching for essays.
I know the transfer still happening. I don't have the domain in my possession yet but the deal is done. I can say. Did I feel amped? I like when we're talking about a we're talking to pop I like wanted to go like hide under the covers because he freaked me out about the billion or the million-dollar Bitcoin thing. The banks with this thing I'm like, I gotta clear my schedule. I gotta go learn all about this. I mean, I feel a this is
awesome before we go give us your two minute reaction tube ologies warning /. Bet that the u.s.
Or we'll crash and Bitcoin will surge to 1 million
dollars. I'll say this and I don't know him personally but he is like, quite nearly will it top five people I've ever encountered? Like even on the Eternal winter, there's a raw kind of what I call wattage. You just raw horsepower and he's like a pi unto himself, right? Like you just just the knowledge that he has. Having said that, I understand why he's taking the extreme positions because that's sometimes what you have to do to kind of shake the world out of its reverie. It's like okay, pay attention.
Attention here, this is important. But if I'm a betting person, I would not bet that be odds are what he thinks they are could happen but nowhere near the probability that he suggesting that, I feel better now. Personally I feel better. Your I like your opinion better. Therefore, I think it's
true.
We should wrap on this because one of the things that happens, anytime new technology comes along, we saw this a little bit and kind of crypto. What pre-World as well is that
Probably minded folks will see this kind of new thing and they will look for kind of the quick turnaround. I'm all for creating value quickly, but it has to be like creating value. Don't play the Arbitrage. Oh, I'm going to do this thing. This is like day trading back in the day or whatever is like don't be a grifter, right? We're just gonna Bill, we're going to build a shitty app and put web three at the end of the house. Yeah, look, just don't take advantage of people. There's enough real problems to solve. We're real money can be made. And yes, this technology can now be used in creative ways by lots of people and you should use those
But don't use it as an excuse just to kind of be a like an AI tourist that comes through makes a little bit of money or whatever and then that was that there's it's there's a big property. I think your shortchanging yourselves if that's what you end up doing well. Thank you, Dar Mass, thank you for coming to my TED Talk. This is awesome and it was yeah, yeah, well thank you for coming on the Pod. This is awesome. I feel pumped man, I always like talking to you. I see I don't know if you know this Sean, I slacked our Mash all the time. I just feel like I'm just trying to get him to like, give me a little like crumbs of information because I didn't like it into the
hub spot.
It's awesome. I'll just like, just send something his way. Just hopefully, I can get something back, but it's fascinating. And I feel lucky to be able to had have you as a friend and co-worker, and this is awesome. I'm in a podcast. Guess your it's, this is so fascinating. I agree with what Sean said about, like kind of, like, looking up to you and, like, looking at how people live their lives, you're definitely someone I admire. So I'm happy you came here. Thanks for having me out again. This is fun, is
always awesome. All right, thanks for coming on. That's it. That's the pot. I feel like
I could rule the world. I know I could be what I want to put my all in it. Like all Days on the
Road. Less Traveled never looking back.
All right, everyone, that's the end of my first million. However, I've got good news. You see, if you liked this episode, we actually have another podcast. The hustle has another podcast, it's called The Hustle Daily Show to daily podcast. That has everything you need to know about business and Tech and only a few minutes. It's awesome. Our best writers, like Zack Crockett are behind it. It's incredibly fascinating. I listen to it daily so check it out. The hustle Daily Show.
