Welcome to the weekend edition of The Daily stoic each weekday. We bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient stoic something that can help you live up to those four stoic Virtues Of Courage Justice wisdom and Temperance and here on the weekend. We take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview stoic philosophers. We reflect we prepare we think
deeply about the challenging issues of our time and we work through this philosophy in a way that's more possible here when we're not Russian to worker to get the kids to school when we have the time to think to go for a walk to sit with our journals and to prepare for what the future will bring.
Hey everyone, we've talked about that virtue of Justice in the stoics the idea of sympathia. Okay, osis our mutual Affinity our mutual obligation for each other as part of this larger whole that's why I am such a big fan of give well.org for over 10 years. Give well.org help donors find not just great Charities, but the best Charities the most effective ones that are helping the most people give well has helped over fifty thousand donors.
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Give well.org / stoic select podcast at checkout. Hey, everyone. My guest today needs almost no introduction, Camila Cabello multi-platinum musician. One of the biggest pop stars in the world billions of streams across all the streaming platforms. You've heard her on the radio a million times. She's great and you might not know that she is a fan of stoic philosophy. I found this out when I got a
message from someone on Instagram. They said how dare you not acknowledge what Camila Cabello said about you on Instagram and I said, what are you talking about? And I looked and Camilla had posted a page from the daily stoic and ended up connecting which was so cool. And we've become I'd like to say friends. We've text shared some book recommendations and gone back and forth. And I said, hey, do you want to do the podcast thinking that she probably has way way better things to do and I'm sure a million requests to be
On a million platforms, but she said yes, which was awesome. And so we had a great conversation. I'm coming to you from Arizona visiting some family. You did a great conversation over Zoom. Unfortunately couldn't be in person. But here is my interview with Camila Cabello. We should think Shawn Mendes her boyfriend for doing tech support. We had some tech issues. So if it drops for a minute, then comes back you'll understand why but here's my interview and I think you will enjoy these philosophical
Elves from someone who is seeing the world who is literally Cinderella. She's playing Cinderella in the new Sony Pictures movie someone who's experiencing adversity and difficulty. Just like the rest of us. What do you do when your your business is performing in front of large groups of people and traveling and suddenly you can't do that anymore and you might not be able to do that for six months to another year. What do you do when life forces you to reconsider what you want your lifestyle to look?
Quit you want your routines to look like what you want your focus and priorities to look like when Marcus Aurelius has no role is so well suited to philosophy as the one we're in right now. He meant that about his life as an emperor. But it also applies to being a pop star being an actress being a girl in her 20s being a guy in his 30s being a father being single being an artist being an entrepreneur being whatever you are. We can all apply philosophy. In fact, we should be applying this philosophy.
Because it makes us better as the stoic say nothing prevents us from operating always with courage Justice moderation and wisdom. Those are the themes of my interview with Camilla. Kebaya. Enjoy.
I'm so excited. I got a I had my wife give me a haircut just for this.
Oh, you look great. It's
weird times. I wish we could do this in person. But of course, here we are
but here we are. What time is it where you
are? It is nine o'clock, where I am.
Oh nice. What do you get up at like 3 o'clock in the
morning. We I got up it I think 6 a.m. This morning, but that's because we have kids and so we don't have any choice about when we wake
up. Well, I kind of know what you mean more now because
We just got a puppy and Sean. I told him I was like we have because he's like nine weeks old he has to be taken out like we have an alarm on our phone for like 2 a.m. And then in four hours for 6 a.m. And Sean I was like, can you just he like did all the all the pee and poo shifts last night. But and and then tonight I'm going to do all the pee and poo shift. So I am one step closer to knowing what having kids are like and let me tell you.
Can I swear on this? Yeah, of course. I respect the shit out of you parents because we have a puppy and it's been hard not hard but like, you know, it's a lot of work.
No it is I think what's good about dogs and then what's good about kids is that it's sort of force it you can get very used to sort of get in your way and doing things only when you want to do them and then the nice thing about these sort of responsibilities is that they really don't care at all what you want what you prefer. It's just
Of inarguable reality
totally and you just like I have to be present it just like forces you to be present and also to like laugh and be patient at situation like that instead of being like so many times like in the past few days were like because he'll like, you know eat another dog's food or he'll to something up and it just like makes you really really patient. Plus he's cute as
fuck. But of course, it's a golden retriever. What's the
name his name?
Is Tarzan
Tarzan? Very nice.
It's funny because when we first got him, he was like he was so like docile and calm or like oh, we're going to pick that one and then five days later, he's just become like a Tasmanian devil and Sean and I were like this dogs of Genius like he's just like made us believe he was this calm like docile dog and now he's like, yeah.
Well if you think about what dogs are like, we don't really realize how manipulative dogs are because dogs were wild animals.
We I think for a long time people thought that we domesticated dogs, but it's really more like dogs domesticated themselves next to us. So like dogs basically are just really good at tricking humans into taking care of them, which is a really incredible feat.
Well, have you ever watch The Dog Whisperer and and read Cesar Millan, I mean Cesar Millan is I feel like he's a low-key stoic like, you know, even if I don't know if he
He like if he if he says that but the way that he teaches like we've been reading his book how to raise the perfect dog clean. That's like what Shawn and Aiza are we are reading list, but a lot of what he teaches like educating a dog like he calls it like being a pack leader and you know always kind of like he his thing is like your dog is always going to take on your energy. So if you have like frantic anxious energy like the dog will pick up on that and like always being like,
of calm and assertive so the dog like trust you and it's like it's really really interesting because it makes you realize how much we are really like how much we truly are all animals like he you know he talks about only rewarding your dog with affection when he does something that you do like and when he when he doesn't like when they're over excited just like don't acknowledge them as opposed to like just treating them like they're like human children and constantly being like hey I don't know I just
it's like really interesting like the dog psychology part of it is really interesting
I did a show in New York one time like an interview and he was the guest before me and I got to meet him for like five minutes and you can really there are these people that have like a kind of energy that you just it's like magical like it sounds made up like how could energy like be this thing that is like projected or felt and then you watch it on TV and you're like how could you just be like sort of magically calming these
Dogs and then you experience it and you're like, oh this is a real thing and and it's a person. Yeah, it's nuts.
Well, I do think like I mean, I think the more I get older the more I'm realizing how much I mean we are all energy and so much of he talks about how you know with dogs. It's like no matter how much you say no stop. It's not your words. They don't communicate and that human language Parts like your body language and your
He and it's like so much of that is true with humans to like no matter what someone says it's like you can really feel like we are energy like even if you're not consciously picking up on that. It's like that's always what's underneath everything. It's
what I like about Cesar Millan is this idea that you could really be a master of anything. So like he's like the you know, let's say the best person in the world at that weird dog energy thing and I was thinking I thought about him a couple
A couple years ago when we first started sending my kid, my son doesn't do it anymore because the pandemic what we started sending them to daycare and like when you have a kid, it's like it's difficult to put them down for a nap. Right? They don't want a nap they run around like crazy and then it was thinking that like these two women who are running the daycare at one was from Cuba and the other was from Guatemala or something and you're like these two women put down 15 toddlers at the
Same time every day and like I can't even do one and it's totally a net-like because I've watched him do it. Once it's totally an
energy thing. Yeah hundred percent totally and then it makes you like when Caesar talks about that like keeping a calm assertive energy for your dogs all the time or especially when you want to discipline them. It makes you practice that muscle more sure and it's like actually the more that I this is what I've been like really focusing on like especially in the past year is how
To like how much who we are is just like trained behaviors and like you can you know, you can train and undisciplined dog. He could literally be a different dog just from how you train them and how you respond to their behaviors and it's like the same with human beings. It's the same with your own brain. Like you're all I feel like my own brain is a crazy puppy dog, but it's like really empowering. I feel like that whole psychology of like how you respond to things changes.
The things themselves like I become really obsessed with just like that that Mastery of like yourself and that Master of your mind and your emotions and it just like I feel like it's more emphasized by by things that I liked by the Caesar thing. I'm like, oh it's there to like how everything is what happens and then your response to it.
What have you noticed the last 70 months from the pandemic? Have you noticed like what I've noticed is that
As you turn down the outside world, so you're not doing as much stuff. You're not as busy. You don't have as much going on. It's sort of reveals to you. Like like my anxiety became more apparent to me became much more obvious that I have anxiety because it wasn't drowned out in other things, you know what I mean? And so I'm just curious like have you have you started to get in touch with energy in your own life?
I mean, I was I was kind of fucked before the
The pandemic started like I feel like my anxiety was like at an all-time high before covid happened. I was like and I was kind of working through it. Like I was like filming a movie. My album had just come out I was doing promo, but I was like at the same time. It was just like I think that's why I really took in the last year like my own healing and meditation and like all of these and exercise and nutrition all these things super seriously because I was I was doing these things I
Doing promo and filming but I was just suffering so much because of my state of mind and I think I had I had suffered from anxiety like from years before like I think like it, but it really hit its climax because I don't think I paid enough attention to it and I was just working through it working through it working through it. And I think when over the last seven months that I was able to stop in the beginning it was my anxiety.
Typically because I had time to be aware of my thoughts and what I was thinking and my thought process is as opposed to I got to go perform fuck everything. I'm feeling because I got to do a good job, which is kind of what I did before. I was just kind of like override all of my, you know, just just my my internal struggles because I was like, I got to go onstage and 10 minutes. I can't be thinking about this, you know, and it just really gave me time to be able to
in the awareness of what thoughts were causing me suffering and anxiety and and feel it and go through it because honestly because I had the time and I hadn't really had the time to really look at what was going on inside myself for like seven years, you know, I was just constantly I felt like my life was revolving around how to do a good job in my next performance how to do a good job and my next writing session whatever and it's like it feels
feels like that's like the short-term solution, but it's not the long-term solution because you're actually sacrificing your authenticity and like your truth to just like do a good job as opposed to like be who you are how you
are. Well what I found too is that because you're good at what you do. So in your case, it's sitting for me. It's writing is that the writing or the work is always as difficult as it as it is and unpredictable as it is.
You have way more control over that than other things so you can kind of Channel all those energy all that energy towards whatever you're supposed to be doing like putting on a show or for me. It's like I know I can go sit at my computer and stuff that's valuable will come out of it. But like dealing with my feelings or dealing with you know, the more complicated stuff is much less predictable. And so you kind of end up sort of focusing on work at the expense of everything else.
Totally and it's it's scary. I can feel scary to be with with you with your thoughts and feelings because it is like that's also why I mean I I feel like honestly stoicism and meditation have helped me the most in the past year like both of those things like the kind of I feel like stoicism is kind of like the cognitive reframing of stuff which is
So important because when I the tools that I get from meditation not even meditation really mindfulness is the awareness of what my thought processes are and I'm like no wonder I have fucking anxiety because look how I'm thinking about the situation and then stoicism gives me the tools to be like, well, there's no use and thinking and obsessing about that because I can't control what's going to happen in the future. I can't control when I the performance is tomorrow. There's no amount of thinking today. That's
Gonna if anything it's just not it's not useful, you know, but like I found that the most important thing and the thing that really has given me more peace most importantly because I think as I'm getting older I'm like, I feel like piece is even better than like moments of Joy. Sometimes I guess just like so much better what's giving me more and more peace and and more like authenticity when I do my work and when I write and when I do go to to work on my craft is like
That mental training. I think it's so huge and I'm like honestly pissed that I didn't get taught those tools in school because I'm like what the fuck like I feel like I had to searched and searched and searched and and go through so much suffering. Like I don't know what's been your like experience with with anxiety. But like it was fucked like it sucks like feeling anxious like it sucks. And I feel like I was like feeling
Being anxious more than not like eight months ago, you know and it's like it's so in Via invaluable to have tools like, you know, you're not your thoughts your The Observer of your thoughts or oh, how can I reframe the situation? So I don't stress about it or whatever or breathing like all of these things. Like I feel like have are changing my experience of life and it's like that's your mind is your life.
Do you feel like you can sort of gut gut it out like you can perform well and
Is you know you can write anxious but then it sort of realizing like, oh actually when you're doing it from a place of Stillness or peace or you know, when you're when you're not being driven by your thoughts. It's just that like a whole other level.
Definitely. I mean, I think like there's been so many times where I remember like specifically a couple times, which is it was last year really there was it was really a span of like 7 months where I feel like I was really struggling with anxiety and like
I've talked about this openly before like six months. It was just like at a peak and I had two performances that I specifically remember amas and SNL and like I finished SNL and my team was like my manager was like that's the best performance you've ever done because it does feel like in performance. I can Channel we were talking about energy. It's like anxious energy or suffering or pain is a lot of energy and so it felt like I could really Channel it.
and and almost like put all of that energy into every word or every movement and it almost like it's like one Beyonce I said before nerves are actually a good thing because its energy and it suddenly if you were hitting a move like this that energy makes you hit it like this because there's so much kind of coming out, but I do think that
It's not a good trade-off because especially for example in something like writing when it is coming from a place of Stillness and peace. Like I've seen in the past few months even like writing for my next project now, it's like it's so much more authentic. It's so much more truthful and I'm so much more proud of it because it's not coming from a place of that day trying to get a certain outcome or trying to impress the other person that's in the room.
Or really thinking about anything in the future, like what's come from me kind of training myself to be present and just be truthful and it coming from a place of Stillness. I think is so much better so much more rewarding and honestly fuck the result of the performance. It's like you actually end up your life changes, like you're like you're able to make connections with people because your mind isn't you're
not being like your life isn't being drowned out by the noise of your mind. Like there's just it's it's it's so worth it to I feel like invest in that mental training because I think a lot of times people are like look at it as almost like I don't have time to do that because I have to go do my work and I have to do all of these things but it's like investing in yourself and in kind of like training your mind to work for you as opposed to be the same.
It actually stops you from being your best self and like blocking you it's like it's so so worth it and it makes everything else better. You know,
I know exactly what you mean. It's weird to me talking to you because like I think you're the first guest that I've had that I'm older than I'm so used to being the the the young person because that's sort of like you my career started very early. So every all the authors that I've known or managers and agents everyone's older but
I remember when I was I had this sort of epiphany when I was about your age. It was realizing like okay, so it's working for me like the anxiety the intensity the energy I'm getting good results out of it, but it's not sustainable. Like I don't want to do I don't want to be in that sort of adrenalized State for the next like 30 years like that. You're not going to survive that way and so it's sort of realizing like you're not having any fun doing it and if it's not coming from a place of Stillness and contentment.
Like you're going to burn out or die if you keep going this way
hundred percent. Well, I think what happened to me right before pandemic was I did burn out like that's what it felt like for me like I felt burnt out. I felt honestly like I was like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore, but it wasn't doing this. It was the way that I was doing it, right, you know, it was like I was like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. It's so much anxiety so much stress. I feel unhappy.
E I feel like my mental health there for my physical health is suffering. Like I wasn't sleeping well like all of these, you know, I wasn't sleeping while I felt like my nervous system was out of whack because I feel like it was just a habit for me to be in this kind of fight or flight State and what were you just saying before that?
Well, just like how you can sustain this because I think what's interesting is like most most singers in your position. It seems like they have a meltdown.
Their mid-30s right like there. It doesn't seem to
last a hundred percent. Well, I think that I would have I would have at some point it would have been unsustainable and I would have been like I actually have to stop. I don't know when I'm going to come back and do this. But at this point my health is suffering and I have to stop and I was kind of forced to stop by we all work by everything by everything that happened and I it was like it was really necessary time.
Like it was necessary for me to kind of go go through really just like I wrote this article about like for mental health awareness month about OCD and about anxiety and it's like with anything. It's like it with your physical health. If you break a leg like you gotta heal the leg and nobody's like judging you for it. You just like take some time and you you know, you get a cast and you can't walk for 5 days because it's you gotta recover and I think like with
Mental health, it's like it's different. It's you know, nothing's gonna happen if you just do nothing, but it is worth taking time to be to treat it, you know, even if it's like 10 minutes a day of like doing exercise or doing something that you know that it's good for your mental health or you know, like really there's there's so many different things but in the past 8 months, I feel like I've like literally my life has changed like I'm like so thankful for it because I think that
that I would have spent a lot of years being unhappy and at the same time this weird thing of just like not like just keeping going because you think that's what you're supposed to do. And yeah, I'm just like I'm so thankful for this time because I feel like I'm like
More and more just the boss of my own mind and and the boss of my own life as opposed to feeling kind of like victimized by anxiety and and and and mental health struggles. Like I feel like that was like constantly something that I had to overcome to do things. And now I kind of like did it the other way I wear I'm like I'm going to get to the root of this fucker so that I can you know, so I can
Just like be be free of it and
it's totally possible that something was Stokes talk about which is like what good is Success if the result is that you don't feel like you're in charge of your own mind or your own life. Like how is that success?
Exactly and that's like not what this Society we as a society are taught and actually so much of I feel like healing is being like what of this is like what I actually want and what of this is just like what everybody
This is doing and I'm doing it because everybody else is doing it like that, you know and so on this is the key like that really resonated with me. Like what's your definite and egos anomie to when it's like all of these questions about like what is success to you like is Success being famous and having these Awards and I feel like it's especially and necessary teaching nowadays because I have like, you know, my little cousin who's like eight years old and I'm like, what do you want to be when you grow up and she's like, I want to be Tick Tock Fame.
Amos I'm like it's like these values of like know what's important is you know, how content you are with your life like the level of of gratitude that you experience the most most importantly for me right now like the connections that you have with your family and your friendships and your community and the your purpose like you're I genuinely do feel like my purpose is in in art, you know, I don't think I actually even though it's always been my passion.
My favorite thing to do like feel like in the past 8 months, I really was like, oh no, this is like what I what I want to do, you know like this is like what I feel like my my purpose is and it's like not doing it for any out any outcome of like being famous or success or what people think of you which it can subconsciously like I know I mean I can only speak for myself. But like even when you don't say that to yourself like I've never been like I want to be the
Most famous I want to be number one. I've never said that but I remember like reading ego is the enemy and being like but then at the same time I go to do a writing session and I care so much about what these people in the room think of think of me. Like I'm like so insecure and and Afraid and like that's ego too because I'm still not doing it for the right reasons like the right reason is to tell my truth. That's it period
there's a great Marcus Aurelius quote. He says,
We care about other we care about ourselves more than other people he says but we care about other people's opinion more than our own and that quote. It's so true like you pour yourself into this thing doing it the way that only you want to do it, you know, and then and then all of a sudden it comes out and then what you're thinking is like did other people say it's good or not. And sometimes you need a project. I did a book a few years ago. This book called conspiracy, which I think is my best book, but it's sold the least well out of it.
All of them it didn't like fail. It just it just didn't do maybe what it could have done and what was really free and about that experience was it totally decoupled like critical success and sales for me from like what I know is good. And that's like it was such a huge breakthrough.
It was such a huge breakthrough for me when I saw like a couple months ago. I was I was like, you know, I read it ego. I read obstacles away like I think like two years ago, and I that was actually my
My for my second album. I read a friend of mine gave me that book. And so I read it and it told I remember like reading it and then for the next like two months while I was reading it like my writing sessions were like amazing because everything even even my own insecurities and my own like fear. I was kind of using it to fuel, you know, I was doing that that stoic teaching that I love so much the Amor Fati.
The taking everything and even the bad stuff and loving that it happened not just accepting it but being like Oh, I'm going to use this now. And that's the first time I read that book then like two years later. I read Stillness is the key and that was actually when I was when I was that was like a year ago. Actually that's when I was going through the height of my my Mental Health crisis and that really impacted me and then during quarantine I read
Ego is the enemy and I started really getting into stoicism and I got like the daily stoic journal and I was reading the daily stoic videos and one video that really resonated with me was the one where you're talking about how stoics to find success and and the internal scoreboard and how it's like their success. That's like, okay. How many views did this get? How many likes did this get? How successful is this? Is this song or this album going to be and that's
All the things that you can't control. So if you measure success like that or how other what other people in the room think of me, then you're going to be unhappy or whole life. But if you change your definition of success, which I really practice I've really been practicing when I've been writing for this album if I change my definition of success to how honest was I today how vulnerable was that today how you know, did I show up completely as myself was I kind tip to people
You know was did I see people did I make this a fun experience for everybody in the room? Like if I just keep it in in terms of if I just focus on what I can control and this moment then at the end of every day. I was like it was like it was a successful day. Even if I did feel anxious or nervous. I was like my mattress my metric of success was hey guys, I feel a little nervous, you know, and I was truthful and therefore I met with my like
And of success and it's like that's so much more important. Like it's so much more important to be the person that you want to be and lead with with that then like how other people perceive you are what people perceive you like that's like what I what I love about sewious ISM and like what I feel like is going to be my philosophy of life forever is like which it wasn't before like I feel like I was leading with what I was doing instead of who I was being, you know, it's like, you know, I was
I just like now I'm so conscious of like me being brave and courageous and kind and you know and truthful and you know me meet my character comes before any of the things that I
do. Hey, it's Ryan got a quick message from one of our sponsors and we'll get right back to the show. Stay tuned.
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After that new subscribers only terms apply offer expires January 11th, 2021. Amazon.com Ryan one of the reasons, I think it's important to it's not just like decoupling success from results because like you could fail or whatever but I remember I was watching the Taylor Swift documentary the Netflix one a few months ago and she's talking about this moment where she wins like album of the year. She's the number one album of the all these things and she's just sort of like now what like she's unhappy
Because she got everything she wanted and that's a real thing too. If you have told yourself this lie that like I will be happy when I accomplished X then you get X and it's really disappointing and that's when you also kind of realize like oh, you can't be doing it for these external things. You have to be doing it because you love music and the byproduct is these extra things
totally and that's like where I feel like the meditation.
Stuff has been really useful as that. It's constantly like your brain is always telling you is always like stuck in the past or in the future. We're in the future things will be better or in the past things were better or in the past things were bad. And now they're still going to be bad or in the future this might happen. So that's going to be scary. And now this moment is bad. It's like but none of that is true and it's like you you also another Stoke teaching that I love is like you could fucking die.
At any moment, so it's like why would you put it off? It's like also it's like the stuff that you're practicing in your mind and who you're practicing being as a person in this moment is who you're going to be in and you know six months from now if you keep doing it the same way like, you know, if you are always like looking at what you don't have and what you need to be happy then that habit in your brain. It's like a pattern.
Like that's not going to stop, you know, and I feel like I've like if you like I also discovered about myself like in the past year like I don't really see myself as like, I don't think I've ever been a like a negative person or a pessimistic person. Like I think I'm pretty optimistic. I'm like pretty like bubbly and like and and hopeful but I have recognized like within my own mind how much like which is what anxiety is it's like
Anticipating the future or not being present enough to see like what's going on around you? And yeah, just like I've been practicing that lately a lot. It's just like looking around and being like Oh, I'm like so grateful to like have water and like be talking to one of my favorite authors and you know have a puppy like I'm so grateful for puppies that puppies exist, like just like the practice of always looking around and and
Like training that muscle of like Wonder and ingratitude. It's like that. I'm like just like excited for 10 years from now and hopefully that's just like a personality trait and not something that I have to practice, you know, but like it does things do become like actual personality traits when you practice them just like anxiety then I was like, oh fuck. I'm an anxious person, but I'm not it's just that's what I've been practicing.
Yeah friend of mine was saying something they were talking about they were like,
They're like I don't like they'd always felt that they were like scared of driving at night. They didn't like driving at night and then they realized they're like, oh no, my mom is scared of driving at night and I just like picked that up there like that's not actually who I am and that they were like, I can discard that and just practice in new skill where I am not scared of driving it.
Totally I actually have that. My grandma has a fear of birds and sometimes like birds will be flapping I'll be like and I'll be like wait.
I am I oh, it's my grandma's fear. It's weird. It's just so you know, it's made up and there is also I don't know how much of this is theory. And how much of it is science and I this might be
I actually want to be careful with that because I don't I'm not sure but it is like some stuff is passed down like through your through your jeans and stuff. I don't know if a fear of birds is but you can but what is obviously
enforce it over and over again,
you can almost like turn on or turn off the gene based on like what you what you do, you know, this is my second ever podcast. Really. What was the first one my vocal my vocal teacher is starting a podcast. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, and so we did.
Get we did a podcast about about singing Sean did it too, but this is my second everyone. Am I doing a good job
you're doing great. You're doing great
yugos enemy
to go back to what you were saying about, you know being happy for water and a dog. I think the stoics talked about like how little is actually needed to have a happy or a good life. So I think one of the things covid is done is sort of shrink our expectations for what we need and it's been nice for
Or me I'd be curious about this for you. Like I found that once I sort of started looking much more inward started looking much more around my immediate surroundings, and I have a lot less interest in what other people are doing and that's contributed to my happiness in a huge way you it's hard for people to realize like I remember I had dinner with his billionaire a few years ago and he was like talking to me about the Forbes list like he was talking about like the other people on the Forbes list and it's like you're a billionaire and
You're even still you're like comparing yourself to other people but that idea that comparison is the thief of Joy because it makes it instead of being able to appreciate that. You have a puppy you're like oh but somebody has, you know a mansion and a puppy and therefore I'm deficient for not having both
that's so true. And like what's sad is that's probably like that that trait is probably a big part of why he's a billionaire because he was constantly like oh, you know this
Ryan has more than I got to work harder this way and like that's something that I feel like is always its kind of subconsciously taught to us to is that competitive thing? Like I know I feel like even probably more I've seen it so much in my industry of like, you know,
I felt it within myself like just being like Oh my God, like I have so much to be grateful for like I look at where I started. I never thought I would be here the fact that I even get to do. This is fucking insane and then you go to experience is so much like when I would go to award shows where it's like they call they do this thing out of other words shows. It's great for your ego in the good and bad way. It's totally sarcastic but
they call out everybody's names and then like everybody, you know that people around will clap and it's like I just like I remember going to award shows and you know, they'd be like Ariana Grande. Wow, and they'd be like Camilla kibeho and like they would in my mind they would be clapping a lot less for me and I'd be like, oh my God, and it would just like affect you so much to the point where like you would go up to get an award and you'd be like, oh my God, I don't deserve this. Like I heard it in the
not as many people claps for me and then it makes you then there's the thing that happens in your brain when you're like I got to work harder I got I got I got to work and it's like it's I hate that that version of myself like I don't hate I don't hate that but you know I don't that's not a pleasant version of myself because then once I'm out of that space especially now that I have been for like a year it's like you want to be like who cares like I'm just happy to be here like whatever you know and you
want to be happy for the people that got you know the loudest cheers and the most Awards like it's like it's like really enforced probably in all Industries but I can speak about like the music industry like there is this sense of of competition and constantly like you know trying to be the number one and I actually I have to say like I do feel that when I'm at award shows and if I'm on social media
You know and I'm looking at what every other artist is doing like there is that part of you that will be like I got to work harder I got to do more but I have always felt like this is absolutely my favorite chapter in probably any of the books but in Stillness is the key when you talk about this metaphor for it's like if everybody on this planet plus the planet is one human body. It's like there's the person that you know symbolizes the eye and the eye
has got to be the best. I not the best hand just got to be the best eye and that kind of metaphor for all of our roles. Really. I feel like stuck with me because I've always felt like maybe it's like it's not everybody's job to be number one. It's just your job to be you like the world needs you to be you and it's like even that book conspiracy. It's like even if it's sold less than all the other books. There's a group of people that
Fucking loved it and it really affected them deeply and nobody could have done that except for you. And it's like I feel like that about some people that are like, you know, some you know meditation teachers or you know people, you know people that maybe not a lot of people know or or singers or artists that not a lot of people know, but for me, they've affected me so deeply and it's like I feel like I've really carried that and
I'm going to try to always carry that next time I go to one of those award shows and just be like I can only just like be the best me and if if five people like really resonated with what I said, like, that's great and maybe that person is is meant to you know, it's like they're the ion and Han I just got to be the best hand but that really takes the pressure off when I go into the studio. Like I'm not like trying to get a number one song. I'm just trying to be as true to myself as
Soil because that's what is going to deeply not superficially but I think deeply affect
people will look and you can see true. No, no, you got to you're doing the song and you could die before the song comes out. So you have to think about whether it was just as whether it was its own reward. I think that's what I try to think about that. It's like look think about all the author's whose books came out after they died and then we're a success so like they did.
Not get to enjoy any of that. So if they didn't enjoy making it that's really really sad. If they weren't proud of it when they finished that's like the saddest thing in the world
and I've actually had experiences where I didn't have a great time that day in the studio and that song became successful and I ended up really disliking the song like I never liked it even if it was successful. I didn't even want to perform it and like my my team would be mad at me and be like
But there are this has as many streams and I'd be like, I don't like that. I don't like it. I'm not gonna perform it and I didn't wow, but I've actually like, you know, I've kind of I gotta say I got Pat myself on the back because I have always been really like ruthless about I don't not really like giving a fuck about the commercial success part. Like I do have like subcon think subconscious fears about like if I'm writing like what
In the room think of me if I'm writing with Pharrell. I'm like, I really wanted to think.
Yeah, I have I have that thing but I definitely like the whole billboard the charts and like writing stuff for it to you know, be a number one and sound like everything else on the radio. Like I've always liked really not been into that and when I don't like something like I just like I won't I won't do it because I'm just like I can't
I wrote this email for daily stuff, which I look forward to you. It was a couple years ago, but it struck me once I was listening to
you don't know it's like hits of the 90s on Spotify or something and I'd heard of like most of the songs because that that sort of when I was a teenager and then then it was like then I was listening to like 80s and I knew a lot of the songs because I like sort of heavy metal and stuff and then then I went seven I was going backwards in time and it was interesting to me how quickly these were the biggest songs of that period how quickly not only like I wasn't like super familiar with them, but
Some of them like I'm not only never heard the song before I hadn't even heard the name of the person who done it, right and that's something the stoics talked about which is just kind of how ephemeral it all is and so if you're not enjoying it and if you're doing it because you've deluded yourself into thinking you're going to be like famous for all time. This will be this Legacy that lasts forever you really depriving yourself of the present moment, which is all that you
have. It's so true. It's so true. I had a friend who once told me like
You know, we were speaking about like Legacy and he was just like Legacy is like for everybody else. Yeah, it gets thank you know you're dead thing that it's not something that you get to enjoy and it's also like who I always remind myself this like is everybody is anybody really gonna care like in a million years like not even knows if we're gonna be here like who you know, who knows like who was the most hundreds of thousands of years ago and we were just like an in
And there was like a famous famous singer woman around the campfire like she was the bet she was the best one, but I don't know her name, right, you know like it's it is like that's such a refreshing concept it really is and that's like something that you goes the enemy taught me to I was just like when I get so riled up about a writing session or an interviewer performance, I am truly thinking too much of myself, like nobody cares that much and like the people that I that do.
Like II actually I just finished filming a Cinderella which is like my first film that I ever did and I was Cinderella which is crazy radical but talk about that. I mean it was it was it was amazing, but it's like it that was it. So it felt like a pretty high-pressure thing to do is I've never been in a film before and I was you know, the lead role for my first film and that took a lot of like really I had a lot of like mental tools for me to show up every day and
and be able to have fun and not faint and not really make that pressure the focus. Like I remember I actually do you know, Michael
Gervais. Yeah, I do. Uh-huh.
Okay, so I work with him. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Is that how you found out about my
books? No. Okay. No, Michael is
amazing. Yeah. Yeah, he told me that he told me that you guys are friends and there's been many times where we talked on the phone and I'm like, I was reading my holidays book and he's like Ryan. He's a good friend of mine.
And anyway, so I was I've talked to Michael dirr Viola and while I was doing the filming I would talk to him about just like the stuff that I was experiencing. I'd like a tomorrow is a big scene, you know, I'm feeling nervous whatever and he was just like he is he's given me a lot of wisdom about when I do get nervous before things like writing sessions or wherever that I'm going to be like in a vulnerable place because doing that film
Was like really really vulnerable acting is really vulnerable because it's like you have to be so present. There's no outsmarting it. There's no like practicing the line before and then you like it's like all of it is really reacting to what's going on in front of you and and being present and I had to kind of like make peace with the fact that this is for I remember I was like when I first came
Back from the pandemic as we shot it over two different periods of time I came back and I was like, I was feeling nervous when I saw the camera when the camera was in front of me and he was like you're equating the camera with with who with what and I was like people like people that are that are judging my performance and people and he's like, okay, how do we like turn that around? Who would you want the camera to to symbolize our represent? And I was like just like, you know, like
Like a young girl that's like a fan of mine and she's just like wide-eyed and she's excited and she had a bad day and she just like want some Joy. She's looking for some Joy when she watches this movie and we actually like I named the camera laughter like one of my one of my like closest fans her her name is Julia and I just would picture her there and it's like anytime. I'm nervous. I just picture who is this really for like it's really for my fans like it's for sure. It's for
Juliet's for Aurora. It's for staff. I'm naming actually, I mean some fans for Dom shout out, but it's like these people that you are like it's just as simple as that it's not about your legacy or being the greatest of all time or anything like that. Like if that happens like cool, but it's it's just to make people happy. It's like not really doesn't have to be more complex than that. And that's like the most rewarding
Ting I feel like way of thinking about it for me it's like that's that was my purpose in that movie. It's wasn't even to prove that. I'm like a great actress or whatever. Like I just I if I just made them smile and made them happy like that's who it's for. It's not for any kind of outcome or or reputation or
praise. Yeah. There's a Bertrand Russell quoted as saying like the first sign of a an impending nervous collapse.
Is the belief that your work is terribly terribly important so Tara and you can paint it first hand. Yeah, it's because it is important to you and because it is important to your livelihood and because there is pressure you sort of internalized it all and it becomes this like massive thing and it's like it's really it's like you're screwing my case. It's like writing words on the computer like this is not this is not that important
and like the I feel like the idea of I would say I feel like
Sends me on like what you do. It's like I have found like hosting the last 8 months like how important it is to have to feel a sense of purpose no matter what you do. Like, it doesn't matter if you're in the Arts or if you're a doctor or if you're a teacher or if you are, you know, it does it doesn't matter. If you're an Uber driver. It doesn't matter like I think like having a sense of purpose makes life so much better because if you're like, you know, my purpose is just to make people
Smile today, my purpose is to you know, make people believe in the goodness of other people like I think like when you like wake up every day thinking that it just like you don't want to waste a day because you know, you have a job to do I actually read over the past eight months. I don't know if you I think you have read it because you quoted a lot that the Gita the bhagavad-gita worse. I loved I loved it really affect impacted me. I loved like the the way that they describe
When they said you have the right to work, you don't have the right to the fruits of your
work. Yeah. Have you read Stephen pressfield at all? No, so you would love Steven pressfield. He wrote a book called The War of art which I think is like the best book about the sort of creative process ever ever written but he also made a novel about it called the The Legend of Bagger Vance, which is also a movie with Will Smith and Matt Damon, but that is like sort of a modern. It's the bhagavad-gita but applied to a professional golfer but his
His stuff is amazing. And I think it's a huge you have to have this sense of purpose and this sense of sort of it fitting, you know, large tradition like like so it's weird. I think on the one hand you're like, I'm just scribbling words down on the computer like this isn't that important? But then also what you were saying where you were like, you know tens of thousands of years ago. There was some woman who was like singing is part of a tribe. That's the other thing though where I think you get purposes you go. Oh, but I'm also part of this really long tradition that it's not about me.
me but this thing is goes back eons and eons and and that that you take your identity in your purpose from being sort of like one Speck on a really long line
totally and I find that to be like so much more comforting than just like being on your own and then everybody else like it's so much more comforting to know and I really do believe that that's the truth that we are like little cells and this big body this big system that we can
Even understand but it's like all of our actions and our energy and like and really and and RNR energy and how we are like it really has a ripple effect like a huge ripple effect. Yeah, that's like a really comforting thing to think in my opinion that we are like we're not alone. We're all like deeply deeply interconnected with each other and with with nature and it's like we're not
ever alone because we're we're part of this huge Tire intelligence like we were that's where we came
from. Hey, it's Ryan got a quick message from one of our sponsors and then we'll get right back to the show stay tuned. You know, one of my favorite passages and meditations is Marcus Aurelius sitting next to a stinky person trying to convince himself why he doesn't have to let this bother him and while that's certainly true. I think we can all agree if you don't have to stay.
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Make sure you order before December 7 to get your products in time for Christmas that's native D EO.com stoic and use promo code stoica check out don't stink. If you don't have to there's a joke that every writer wishes they were a musician and I think it's because like you get to experience that when you perform right like you get to watch 20,000 people come together as one entity that you're in charge of
of but you're also a part of yourself that must be very overwhelming emotionally to
experience. Definitely. I mean, it's really beautiful to see people like tapped into this thing. I mean that music is so incredible for that's like my favorite part of like being a human and not any other animal is like is music and delicious food. But but yeah, I mean, it's amazing. I'm just like remembering because I don't remember the last time I played
Show like I think it must been like a year and a half ago or something like that, but it's really beautiful and like when you see people like saying stuff and they're like crying and their use really see like them kind of experiencing like a catharsis of their own life and their own emotions and like you're doing that too, but you're all kind of doing it there together. Like it's a really beautiful sense of
of community and like where you see like how your story makes it makes a difference, you know, like sharing your story exactly as you would share. It makes a really big difference and that's what I like. Another thing that I feel like has been a common theme for me like it went especially when I was doing the movie like I was like, I'm not trying to be like a good actress. I'm not trying to do a good job. I just have to be me and like and with all of my
shit, like all of my anxieties and this and that and my struggles and this like the world needs everybody to be exactly who they are and share their story exactly as they are because the more like specific you get I feel like the less people feel alone because everybody is like there's nothing new that you and I have felt that somebody else hasn't and that's like what makes you feel
less alone is when people are like open to sharing that and I yeah, I do definitely feel that and in a show,
you know, Casey neistat
my God, this is so funny because Sean asked me that same question two months ago because he and Shauna friends because Sean is obsessed with like taking videos now and Casey got Casey gave him a camera
Yakko case he's amazing and I remember he did this video a couple years ago where he was showing like the different he was like different levels of art, so
Like or inventions like you make something and it's great. You make something that it's popular. That's great. You make something that's really popular. It's great or whatever but he was talking about how like the ultimate form of art is to make art that helps people make more art lad and so he's like the iPhone may be the greatest invention of all time because like think of all the things that people have done with their phones, but what I think is so powerful about music is that it it's great itself like when you listen to a great song
And you know has some amazing guitar solo in it or it's like emotionally vulnerable and it's beautiful or just the singers doing something incredible their voice. Do you ever think about like so you have songs have done like a billion place do you ever think about like what people have done with that? Like, you know what I mean, like think about the art that your art has helped people make because they were painting while one of your songs was on in the studio or you know what I mean,
totally. I mean that's such a cool thing to think about like that ripple effect and
I've seen like with my own fans like, you know them sending me videos of them doing covers or like them learning how to play guitar to this one song of mine a couple a couple of like my like a few a few of my fans have written poetry books because they like gotten into into poetry like yeah, it is like that that conversation that just like inspires people because our is like it's just so
Cool, like it's just like we get to make things like it's so cool. Sorry. That was this meant that as a ground not a not a very eloquent know there's sort of an
ineffable Miss to it. Right? It's like you just you just well, there's a Longfellow poem where he talks about like sort of footprints in the sands of time. And that's what art is there's a there's a Latin saying I forget what it is, but the basically the same as like life is short, but art is long and that like you have the it.
As you can capture something in a moment when you know, like I wrote my first book when I was 25 and that book is still relevant and it's like I've moved on but that book is still there and people are still interacting with it. And yeah, you see what it helps people do it just it to me. That's the ultimate reward of doing the stuff much more so than any like sort of sales or charts. It's like if you're thinking perhaps one person your life. Wow.
Yeah, and it's also like I feel like when you're really old like one.
You're like 90 or something. You can look back on it and be like this is who I was at this point in time. I can't do that now because to cringey but but when you're old you'd be like, oh my God, are you could show your your kids like your kids are going to read your books. Like that's so your grandkids are going to read your books like that is so cool. That's really cool. There's this phrase that I really love about music. Actually. It's about art in general, but my I have this acting coach. Who is this?
Incredible person. He's a he's also an author you should read his book. He has a few but he has one called at left brain at right brain turn left or at left brain turn, right? Okay. But anyway, he has there was this phrase that he actually just directed a film to and there's this line in it. That's like these aren't just phrases their human outcries.
Oh sure, and I just like love that about that really makes me think of music because so much of the time it's like the chord progression or what you're saying. Like, I feel like that especially when I'm like just kind of listening to two chords and just making melodies or doing ad-libs. It's like it's coming from this place of no thought it's just coming about from a place of feeling or just like full just like feeling like it's just like
I find when I'm like really in my head. I can't even ad-lib like I can because it's just is all feeling and I think for my personality type because sometimes I'm like I say, sometimes now probably a couple years ago would have been most of the times I'm like, so in my head that it's a really nice Psych.
Medicine for that and it's yeah, it's like so like it's almost like it's a word so like Primal, you know what I mean something.
That's why that's why writers are jealous of musicians because like what you're able to do instantaneously, it requires like hundreds of pages for a book to do, you
know, what does it but it's different because sometimes musicians wish they could be writers because you can very
Like you can leave people with an instructional wisdom like just like it is like it's it's just like this is you know, you can you can touch people in a really really direct way like super like like life-changing way. I feel like they're they're different and then some songs can do that. But in music, it's like you have to dilute it so much that it is actually more of a feeling than like then.
Then words of wisdom. It's just like a almost like you captured a feeling in a jar and it's like the you open the jar and it's like and that's like the feeling whether it's like, you know being in love or sadness or empowerment. It's almost like this jar of like emotion that's like exploding and then writing is like it's just so like it's exactly what you what you want to say, you know, so musicians want to be writers to Sean and I have been like
To book now
that I would your expression that a song is like an emotion in a jar is very beautiful because I was going to ask you I have this super weird habit when I write when I listen to music, it's almost always like like I might hear a song of yours me like, I like that song and then I will listen to that song on repeat for like 200 times. That's not all I'll probably not listen to it again. But so when I write it's yeah, it's almost like I had these disposable songs. So like I'll pick something and then that
I'm just trying like and you play it on repeat to a way we're all kind of blurs together. And then you almost like kind of disassociate a little bit and then that's where my writing comes from. And so for me, it's like it's always about finding that leg hit like that sense that some magical song that captures what I need and then I was like wait so you can listen to a
song over and over. Yeah, and then you you kind of repeat it over and over until like and that's the emotion that you want and then that'll inspire.
Hooray no, it's like I'll hear a song be like I like that song and then that goes and then it's like I'm I'm like like a vampire just like sucking all of that out. So so while I'm writing this is why I can't ever share an office. I'll have to like listen to that song on full volume, you know, like in every room of the space just playing over and over and over and over and over again until I like I'm basically sick of it or so that I'm sick of it. I'll listen to it. So many times it will have been stripped of all of
Its meaning until I it doesn't mean anything else to me and then I move on to the next song. Is that
weird? Thank you think that it doesn't mean anything else too. But then when you listen to that song when year from now or two years from now, it's going to take you back to when you were listening to it all the time because there are songs that like, I mean, there's songs that Sean and I would play basically the same eight songs like the first couple months that we were dating and I put those songs on now and I literally feel like I'm going to have
Kind of stroke because it just takes me back to like my heart like starts racing. It's crazy. It just really takes you back to that time, but it's because we obsessively played them. I actually feel like I have a different relationship with music now since there's a pandemic. Well, I feel like I used to like my sister's 13 and she listens to music all the time. But like she listens to really intense songs all the time just in the background like, you know, we were talking and she's like
Has Yellow by Coldplay on like over and over and
over? That's that's that's a good example of a song that yeah, I might play like 200 times right and right but yeah as your point, I do remember hearing that song when I was in 10th Grade and it like now represents that to me
totally and if you played it you probably have this whole like flashback real but I think nowadays I can't I have realized how much music like really certain songs with words.
Birds really
are such a like mood dictator from me. Like they were really trigger an emotional response. So I don't just have them like I'm not really like I don't really passively listen to music like if I just I have music on in the background. It's just like instrumental stuff or more like Ambience like, you know, Spanish guitar something just in the background, but I can't really like listen to songs songs passively anymore like the other day. I went to the dentist and I had to go to the dentist and it was
Like they have like a TV playing like HGTV and songs from like the early 2000s playing and the dentist was talking to me and I was like, this is so much stimulation. Like I it's insane. I couldn't focus on what she was saying because when a song is playing like my just gravitate towards the song but it just made me think like it's just so I don't know like I can't I have to listen to songs when I'm like I'm gonna really like like watching a movie, you know do it.
A wise I read I actually don't maybe I think I would if it was I mean I could not do music songs with words while reading because that would be insane but I could probably do something like instrumental but it just like I feel like it's still dictates the mood so much like it like it retains. Its what you're reading. Like if you were if I start to hear like some piano music and it's sad immediately. I'll be how have like a nostalgic thoughts or like a nostalgia.
Feeling if I you know, like really colors the mood. So I'm going to bring it more intentional about about it now, but to
bring this full circle in the way that like Cesar Millan is like somehow on the wavelength was a dog because you spent so many countless hours doing it. I got to imagine given your relationship with music and what it's meant in your life. You probably feel it at a level that like a normal person can listen to music in the background, but you are
Operant you know what? I mean? You know, that's like your superpower is your ability to connect with words and and what sounds
it's actually true. I hadn't thought about it like that. But that might be true the other day. We were like I hadn't listened to songs with words in a while and and Sean put on like John Mayer's like Continuum and I was like he put on like dreaming with a broken heart and I was like, this is crazy is just like so I don't yeah, I think you're right, especially when I've kind of like
Or just been listening to Instrumental Chill stuff. Like when I put on like a song like that. It's like it's like such a stark difference between like passive instrumental music and like a breakup song. You know, it's like I think I could I
think there's a John Mayer song in each one of my books. That was like a repeat song that I probably
really that's so cool. Are you a John Mayer fan?
I am but it's more like in the sense that like there's a handful of songs that I really like, but
And and what what so he has a cover of Free Fallin by Tom Petty that I think is almost as good as the
original. Come on. I think it's better.
It's so good. It's
that like that's
it that I may have listened to that wondering Stillness. It may have been it may have been ego. I don't remember but I probably listen to that song like 300 times 400 times the city
actually that was my number one most as into
When I was like 14 lose my number one song So I listened to it 300 times two would like now I feel like I know every part of that song I get my voice could do eight instruments. I could that's how many times I've listened to that song. It's so good.
No, it's incredible and but even like we're talking about like what amused what a musician can do in just so such a short amount of time like even the opening chords and that song like in the the Tom Petty version. You're just like that that would
that's just I think there's a handful of songs that will hit me and you're just like this is what Mastery feels and looks like like this is the culmination of a lifetime created these three seconds of music, right?
Well, I have a question. I'm curious about because you we've been we've been talking and you're like you write every single
day pretty
much lesser. So but like let's say new book came out yesterday. Are you writing this morning?
The day that still my most recent book came out which is lives of the stoic stoic. I was finishing the draft of my next book. Wow, that's cool. So as it was actually something I'm jealous of with musicians where like you can put out an album, like right away lot lives was finished in January of 2020 and it just came out. So it's takes so much longer most of the time. I mean they
Can Rush books out they just don't but I'm usually one book ahead. So I've already finished my next book. It's going into editing now. But like I'm in a I'm in editing of the next
book. So how many hours a day how much time a day do you spend writing? And is it every day?
It's almost every day. It's I'll definitely write on the weekend, but it's a different routine because like weekends or more for family. So I might do a like usually what will happen is like I'll be working out and I'll
Some idea and that will be like a daily stoic email or something like that, but not not usually not working on a book on the weekends. But like I try to like sit down at my desk to write usually like 8:30 or 9 and I'll be done by like 11:00 at the latest. So it's usually like to two and a half hours. And then just that cumulatively over a long period of time adds up to books.
That's cool. I feel like I need to integrate that. I feel like I need to like have a routine.
Teen with with writing music as opposed to like when I want to feel inspired.
Yeah, I think so. So read this book The War of art his it's like I think it's the best the best book about the creative process ever written but his his point is like you have to put he's like you have to put your ass where you want your heart to be which is a expression I love and is like if you he has this idea of the resistance basically, it's like we all want to make great art all the time, but then the resistance gets in the way and so
If you only write when you're inspired, I think you're in an ear in a tricky spot because like your mind can always come up with reasons why you're not inspired. So I love the routine. But then and then it's also I think writing books is like you have to get it you probably like this where like when you're writing your in a different headspace. It's like training for a fight or something, you know, or like training to go into space and I had this dream that I was like, you know, it's like ready for a launch like
The countdown you're you're putting on the suit, you're going to the rocket you're strapping in and then it blasts off and when I woke up from the dream it I realized that the book that I'd been putting off starting. I had to start like I done all the research. I just hadn't started writing and so I've I've more gotten to a place where instead of having this like start and stop where it's like I'm training and then you know, then I'm taking a break. I'd rather just be in in fighting at my fighting weight all the time. So just never stopped.
That's so smart. I love that. I'm definitely integrating that that's cool.
Well, well, I'll let you go because this is probably been way too much of your time, but we should we should talk routine to me. I think if you don't have a routine or a practice, you're just getting by on like your sheer talent and and and like your youthful energy, but when you really look it's like how is LeBron James still performing at the level? He's performing at its because it's a machine and he's just riding it.
You know,
yeah, wait, what's that quote? That's like consistency over excitement or something like that consistency over but yeah, that's it's yeah, totally. I totally agree. I totally agree. Well, this was so
fun. This is amazing. I appreciate it so much. I'm so glad we got connected and and yeah, well, we'll have to stay in
touch me to let's be
friends. Let's be friends. Let's do
it Ryan. You're amazing and you seriously? I mean I'd
I told you the other day my mom Shawn me were your biggest fans and you've changed our lives stoics forever, baby. I love it. I get the email I get the journal I get the daily stoic the the daily that's part of my morning routine is reading one page a day leather the black leather one. So thank you for everything. Seriously.
You're the best I'd say that's amazing to hear and it's it I think what's interesting for me is yeah, like I've listened to your songs a bunch of times and you're its
It's just weird to put a face to the work
well likewise because like Sean told you the other day. We've heard your voice on the audio book so much and now your face is moving.
I love it lighting. All right. Talk soon.
Okay. Talk soon, Ryan.
Bye. Bye. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast on iTunes or your favorite podcast app, and if you don't get the daily Stoke email go to daily stoic.com / email.
