I'd have to say that the ocean probably has had the biggest impact on shaping the way I behave more than any one person except maybe my mom because she birthed me and she had a huge influx, of course, but the lessons that you learned from the ocean the relationship that you have with it, it covers so many things and I know that my reverence for its power its beauty like it's just the harmony riding. The wave is is the act of Harmony you're trying to be.
Harmonious with it. You don't conquer waves. You have the fortune to ride them for a moment and be part of them and yeah, you don't there's no Conquering the ocean. I think that the most honest way you can live is to know that dying is very easy and you can die. Any minute death is ever present and the truth is is that right now death has a name and it's walking around and it's affecting people severely because their relationship with death is so insulated through just the way life has become that we're not
Honestly, like we would if we were out in nature being threatened constantly buy stuff then our awareness would be so heightened. But you know, I feel that you don't know what being truly alive is without that relationship to that edge. Hi. I'm Laird Hamilton and this is the Rich Roll podcast.
The Rich Roll podcast
greetings humanoids, welcome to the podcast. It is true. The legendary Master of the big wave the Waterman God Global icon truly. One of the world's greatest athletes Laird Hamilton. He is indeed here. It's all very exciting. But before we get into it a little housekeeping first is that I should mention we recently created a brand new YouTube channel.
Us for podcast short clips. So essentially every day. We're posting free for two ten minute excerpts from both current and past guests. So if you're into that kind of thing, it's kind of a good way to get a visual taste for each guest. You can check it out Link in the show notes or search Rich Roll podcast clips on YouTube. The second thing is sort of a good news/bad news deal. The good news. Is that the response to my new book voicing change has been
Overwhelming and tremendously positive. So thank you for that. The bad news. However is that we wildly underestimated demand such that we're already sold out on the first print run which of course is not ideal heading into the holiday giving season that said the second print run is in process and we should be able to resume shipping at some point in February. In the meantime. You can still of course Reserve.
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You know, most of the focus on this guy is typically around him surfing some of the biggest and heaviest waves on Earth. We all know that part but underappreciated, I think at least is is unbelievable impact and his legacy as an innovator and innovator of crossover board Sports of all shapes and sizes. Not just Towing surfing but stand-up paddleboarding, which I'm not sure what even be a thing today without layered.
And the more recent hydrofoil boarding explosion, which really began with layered tinkering in a garage many many years ago. Now, of course, we all know him as this Fitness lifestyle and Longevity icon a guy who is truly transcended his sport and this is a conversation less about the board and more about what drives layered how his fulfillment derives not from competition. But but from immersion in nature and a
Pushing what he questions possible. We talk about training routines and Entrepreneurship. Of course, he just took his Nutrition Company layered superfoods through an IPO, which is pretty cool. But at the heart this is a discussion about the pursuit of fear a belief that the only way to feel truly alive is to dance with death to glide on the edge of disaster and to purposefully seek out that which scares you most if you ask
layered I think that he would tell you that we're all very much over insulated from the elements that we've muted our natural intuitions and shortcut it our connection to Nature and his call is about the importance of reconnecting with that part of what makes us innately human to push our limits to immerse ourselves in nature to seek out fear and ultimately approach Our Lives as art
I found layered to be wise and intuitive a guy who's just hyper connected to himself. And of course the natural world. He's also refreshingly humble and grounded with this deep reverence for the ocean and the sports he loves but there's also this enthusiasm and and kind of a surprising and beautiful childlike wonder about him that I found very very endearing. I love it. I think you guys are going to love it too. So with that I give you
the great Laird Hamilton
Laird Hamilton in the house. Thanks man. Appreciate you coming out to do this on your mark. Get set. Go. Yeah. Let's see what close it was close. We've been going back and forth. This may be one of the longest your schedule my
schedule scheduling. I know it's been a minute. We were supposed to do this last week then swell emerged and God forbid. I'm going to get in between you and a wave not that I could but that wasn't happening. So here we are I suppose it's flat-out
today. Yeah somewhere
it's not like right somewhere sister at my life. That's where that's where your dream state. That's exam. All right.
Looking in the distance over where there might be is swell. Well, I don't know if you have any recollection of this at all. I'd be surprised if you did but back in about it was late 2012 my family and I were living at common ground and in the Yurts behind behind the restaurant there and I was doing some stuff with Chris J. But the time and you and your family would come and eat at the restaurant pretty much everyday eating Rodman's amazing food.
That place is no longer right sad that was one of the saddest things I've ever
seen people work their whole lives to make a successful restaurant. You don't ever when you get one. You never you're never supposed to stop
it. I'm losing like 50 Grand a month or something like that on that restaurant. He was doing it just because it was a passion of his and he wanted to make it available to the community, but he was like hemorrhaging money on it.
Yeah. Well, I think hemorrhaging on that project the restaurant was actually the one of the probably the only successful things like he was
going money on the restaurant as well. Yeah. Yeah.
We'd come out. I was trying to help him figure out something productive to do with the property. But you know, ultimately he couldn't figure out what he wanted to do with it and he's moved on from then but that was like a really precious period in our family's life to like live on that farm for that people. We're there for like almost four months and I just remember you guys coming in and that's where I started this podcast and Gabby was like my third guest on the show or something like that, but I would see you.
And like you scared like I was intimidated by you like I was too afraid to come and talk to you as a college layered over there. Now. I want to talk to him, but I like I never did and then it took this many years for us to get together and do the podcast. So anyway, that's my
big well stores soon as I looked at you I knew you I'm like, my name stuff is the worst in the world but facial recognition. I think it's probably connected to survival see so, you know the foes in the friends, but I looked when you're saying the door, I'm like, I know that
Team that guy yeah, I know you I
remember Gabby talking my wife Julie at one point and she was like she was like you guys might like Maui you now complete and that's a loaded statement. I've spent a lot of time on the islands on all the time. That's not nearly enough not nearly as much time as you have obviously, but there's something very powerful in the energy. You can feel it when you're in Hawaii for sure and and
And more than any other place on the North Shore of Kauai and that was a it was a challenging period for us because you know, we wouldn't we were new we were Interlopers and we were trying to like create a little Community or a little you know, like plants and Roots there because we weren't sure we were going to come back to LA like we were considering staying there and it was it was hard now and trying to navigate like the unwritten rules about how you behave in that part of the world. It's true
well and and and each island is his distinctly different.
They every Islands different the sides of the islands are different and and Kauai is we you know, Kauai is the way I always say, you know Bright Light Dark Shadow, right? You know, it has it has the and it's and it's I mean, I don't know if there's a connection to it's the wettest place on Earth. Yeah, it's you know, and just it's kind of and it's the unconquered kingdom by command Mia so that the great uniter of the you know of all the islands couldn't conquer Kauai and so Kauai has kind of a it has a, you know, there's an aspect to it.
I think that it definitely makes you kind of introspective. I think you just go there and you kind of go in and if you're not ready for fully in then it's yeah. Yeah, there's there's
incredible light but there's a heavy Darkness there after you can feel it and absolutely more more time on the big island. And yeah lot of time not you know in Kailua but yeah, like in the small towns and ride my bike all around the island and I think most people's relationship with
As they fly their they're at a resort the entire time they have a great time. That's not a wine and likewise a very different place and you really you can't fuck around with that energy because it will
bury it will ya and then we because Gabby and I laughed as she grew up on Islands to so she has Island sensitivity and Island awareness and you see people kind of glamorize. Hey, we're going to move there and live in the paradise and the whole thing and then you just kind of go. Okay. Well if you're coming in with that naivety like you're coming in thinking
It's just everything's all you know rose petals. You're going to probably had a rude awakening. It's better to go, you know, and then gabie says this the best and I listened I was raised there. I've lived there. You know, I mean, I was a technicality that I wasn't born in Hawaii. I was born in San Francisco but being in Hawaii since I was three months old and I always walk like I'm a visitor, you know, and I think it's important probably to do that everywhere in life it like you always feel like you're just you're a visitor because whenever you see people that get too prideful of you know, hey, I'm a
Such and such or I'm from here or something like that. I think that kind of do I think that can hold you back and definitely affect your conduct?
Yeah. I mean it requires an extra level of humility. I can guess. I remember I wanted to shoot some video stuff and I was talking to Joel guy. Yeah. All right. Yeah, and we were planning some stuff and I thought well I can just go I was going to go to this beach and do this thing and he's like you can't do you know, he's like if you if I'm not with you forget it. Yeah, you know, it's like you're no they don't know who you are. Yeah, you know and that's
different and new like it's like I'm not trying to get in anybody's way.
Well Joel and I have been childhood friends since we were little kids still
doing his thing out there. He's still doing it. He does a lot of community
stuff. So he's working in in Hanalei and then working with the community trying to I mean the community has ongoing things. I mean with floods and right hurricanes and and then covid and I mean all this stuff is
Adding I was I would have thought you'd be already out there by now.
Yeah, I normally I would be we just have had a lot of a lot of work stuff going on with the girls especially to because my daughter's you know, my middle daughter is is hitting a lot of tennis balls. And so there's not a great, you know in the wettest spot on earth. You'd better have a covered tennis court if you want, you know to be able to put time into that and then my youngest daughter is going to school which in the past was online now at now it's then it wasn't.
At last year and now it's back online, of course because of because of what's going on with the pandemic. But so I'm the girls are kind of holding me back here. I'm also just finishing a home on on the island that I've been working on for 20 years. So like a long like a I have sometimes he's crazy like lifelong goals, you know that they're like, they they come to fruition like 20 and 30 years down the line. It's not it's not on purpose, but it just seems like maybe that
Like a Relentless Pursuit like you have a vision or a dream or see something and then you just and you get you know, you get distracted but you just keep coming back to it and eventually, you know, you said he liked how I babysat getting you on the pocket three years. Yeah. Well, but you were talking to Gabby. So at the end you had you know, you had you had the but you don't good line. That's interesting because
you don't strike me as somebody who is like a goal Setter. You strike me as somebody who's more like intuition based.
Just like you follow your heart follow your your curiosity your creativity. It's not like here's my goal and I'm working towards that you see more in the moment in general.
You know, I maybe I'm using the wrong word. I'm using following my my intuitions and following my instincts and then identifying something. I think I've had the fortune to be able to sometimes understand what certain things will mean, you know in time like it. Hey, if you get on this board and you start paddling and that eventually that's going to people are going to like to do that and they're gonna be able to do that all over just
It's you know, I think there's an aspect to Innovation that you understand what the mechanism or what the idea will eventually turn into so I and then it turns so that almost seems goldish at times. Yeah, but almost gets a little go like but it's rooted in play like yeah, you
go out and start playing around with tow surfing. Yeah because there's no waves. It's not like oh, yeah. I'm imagining rien Reinventing circuit announced just knock one thing leads to another and then, you know a year later you're doing things that you wouldn't have anticipated when you first
Just started fucking around with that
stuff. That's true what you know the quote I really like is that they say that Innovative people are fulfilled by accomplishing things and that competitive people are fulfilled by beating others. And I think I'm really on the the I really enjoy the you know, that fulfillment of okay, I think I can do this and then get and then you not I can beat this guy or I can outdo that guy. It's more about you know, the accomplishing these
tasks, which is eternal. It's the internal
It's not you're not measuring you've never been one to measure yourself against what anybody else is doing. It's all just how it measures up against what you think you're capable of exactly.
Yeah, or what's possible like what's in the you might not even be capable of it. But but is that possible and then you figure out how to become capable of it, right? You know, right? Right, right. Yeah this asset. He's a mother of invention. Yeah, you know, what's funny about that?
I watched I re-watched riding Giants last night Ben. I don't know when that
movie came out as a while ago, but I hadn't seen in a long time and I just watched as a refresher Stacy Peralta. Yeah, he's dancing and what struck me is, you know, you're you've been labeled with this moniker of being like the innovator and surfing and you certainly are that but when you watch that movie you understand that the history of surfing is innovation its constant Innovation, right like from the very beginning when you track it all the way back to the first big waves that were surfed and how they just iterate and iterate and iterate like you're just continuing in that.
Tradition, which is makes it weird when you hear like I know there are people that you know are traditionalist in some regard that give you shit for your new things. But this is was always acting is right. Yeah from it from the very beginning back to you know, with a thousand years ago. I didn't realize like that's when it
started or even or even more I think I think it came out in the necessity to learn how to navigate, you know going out into the ocean when there was Surf and then and then then through that like the guy if you could take your boat and ride the waves in then you that
broaden the whole understanding of but you know, I grew up in a time when in surfing that it was all about Innovation, like that was the focus and then it kind of I think when the competitive aspect of Surfing came in it kind of stopped Innovation because it forced a certain, you know, it's torture. Well, yeah because you couldn't take the risk to go out and try something that didn't work. It would be like if it'd be like if you're a bike racer and you're going to go in a bike race.
I'm going to try some new prototype bike and a bike race because it's going to break. You're just going to go with what you know works and I think that kind of in a way, you know, they talked about in like in computer design that all the Innovations happen when there was a think tank when everybody were together and they were just throwing ideas and then as soon as somebody got competitive or they got possessive with an idea and held it and then stopped sharing then that's when it kind of everything slowed down for a while. And so, you know,
When I was a kid, I just remember everybody that I was around they were you know, I mean was a 60s and people were you know, doing all kinds of drugs as well to give their you maybe to give their imagination more of a boost, but the truth is there was a lot of innovation going on and they were doing weird designs and weird boards. And I mean, if you look back then and you look at the equipment, you're like some of the stuff was so bizarre looking and and and then it kind of went through this flat period but I think for me I always thought was the
You know Brian kill Lana is a great Hawaiian Waterman and kind of a Hawaiian Chief and you know, he he always would say, hey don't Define me by my equipment which I appreciated that it's like it's just a tool like a witch, you know, which tool you're going to use. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It's interesting that the flat period lines up with the rise of competitive surfing and competitive surfing is not part of ride it like it's never even addressed in writing, you know, it's like it's just not part of that narrative at all and you never even dip your toe in that
Right
when I was little we played because it was fun. You know when you're a little kid you go down and it was like you and your friends showed up at the little surf contest at the beach and you all went out and kind of it was like and you know it well, there's no money. Yeah, and then money came
along and you
know, and then I was all of a sudden it was like, okay. Everybody
got gets weird.
Yeah gets aggressive and but you know
looking back now, we're in this we were talking about social media and our kids before
Before this started and you know how addictive all of that is, but one thing that it has created is the ability for athletes and all different disciplines and Specialties to kind of craft their own path. Like when I look back on your career like you were really the first or one of the first people who said I'm not going to do I'm going to be a professional athlete on my own terms and I'm going to Define what those terms are. I'm not going to I'm not going to participate in this structure.
I'm going to do it outside of that and that was pretty radical at the time and you've been successful in that and let the path for many to follow in your footsteps. But now because of these technological tools you're seeing athletes do that. Like they can all make a name for themselves and support themselves doing what they love without it being in that traditional competitive environment
what see I mean really in all art. I mean if you look at all art in a way, I mean you look at music you can get exposure. I mean, that's one of the
I mean, you know every again Bright Light Dark Shadow, right? Yeah, one of the one of the great things about, you know, social media and just the these tools the the block I call it is that you can it's an opportunity to expose your skills and your talent to the world and the followers will decide if you have a bunch of people following and they're interested in what you're doing or saying or dressing or whatever it is you're doing it's it mean you can make a living from right?
And which is pretty amazing. It is cool. I mean, it's super cool that people can do that it is it is and it's and it's allowing a lot more freedom in in art in general when I call Art. I just mean self-expression right in a way. It's forms of self-expression and in my case, it just happens to be in sport. But in some other cases is in music. It's in cooking. It's in fashion. It's in you know lifestyle and yeah, you just go down the
line, but it had to be hard back in those early days trying to figure
Figure out how you're going to make that work really just you just try to do everything your life were like, what do you do it like you gotta get a job right?
Well you subsidize it any way you can that's why I did, you know if it's like, oh a modeling job. Hey, you look good in that thing take a picture or hey, you're going to be a you know be a man in a movie and you can do stunts where okay, I'll do that mean it's like you did whatever you needed to do to subsidize your I always say, you know now I'm in a position where I can subsidize my excavator work with surfing I would I would subsidize surfing with
Ovation like I go dig an excavator so I can go surfing so you did whatever you could I think one thing that really allowed me a real opportunity was was Oxbow, which was this French company that sponsored me for more than 20 years and you know because I didn't have to you know cut trees Mo yard dig holes for cement Hammer Nails all to survive because I had that support it allowed me a little more freedom to practice my skills and to be creative.
Native and work on stuff. And and so that was a fortunate thing. I think without them and that support during that stretch of time. I wouldn't have had quite the luxury to be able to be as creative as I was so I think that that that was a unique thing that happened but you know all along the way you're always, you know, you just do
whatever the puzzle pieces but you grew up, you know on the when you're when you're a kid on the North Shore and you're seeing all those dudes Yahoo, obviously influenced you so profoundly like that's what they were doing.
Doing right? So you realize like, oh I can I can figure out how to get a bag of rice or whatever. I absolutely
live. Oh, yeah, they do whatever fish in the summer work on the thing in this way. I mean you did did they would do I mean and it's a little bit like it's a little bit Island lifestyle like sometimes I get around people and they're like, well, how do you know how to do that? Like, how do you how do you know how to fix that thing? And I go why I lived at the end of a road where if you didn't fix it, it was broken, right? There was no like call the guy that fixes those there was no, you know, it wasn't
Specialized like it is now like you just had to kind of you know, I always love MacGyver like MacGyver from he's the best just give me the bubble gum and the duct tape and a little tie wire and you know, and you can just jury-rig something and get something that was broken to work. And I think that that mentality is definitely useful in well Dolly survival but in Innovation innovating, oh,
yeah is this new iterations of what certain isn't can
be exactly that imagination. That's what Thomas Edison said. He said, well you need to be an inventor is an imagination and a pile of junk.
I'm like, well, I always had the junk use a good marketer to about there's always that part-time. Yeah. Well, there's that too. Huh? That's a piece of
it. I want to talk about water and your relationship to water and the ocean like I'm in certain respects like a different kind of water man. I'm a swimmer I grew up swimming swimming as my passion and it started in pools and you know, I've done interesting things in the water like monofin swimming things like that and now it's about ocean swimming and then I got into ultra-endurance triathlon.
That but I have a very deep and emotional connection to the experience of being in water and underwater that's overlaps with yours a little bit. I would suppose so I'm interested in how you think about your relationship to the ocean. And and you know, how you articulate like what that means.
Well, first of all, that's my Grandmaster, right? Like if you said who's your you know, people say who you look up to or who's you who do you you know, who?
influenced you I mean I'd have to say that the ocean probably has had the biggest impact on shaping, you know, the way I behave more than any any
one person and except maybe my mom because she birthed me and she had a huge
influence of course, but the lessons that you learned from the ocean the relationship that you have with it, it just it covers so many things and I know that you know my reverence for those in just my my reverence for its
Our its beauty, you know, it's met its magnitude. Like it's just the massiveness of it and it's our space right like the ocean is our space on earth. Like if you want to know what space is like you just go to the ocean and that'll tell you what you can go to the edge of the space or you can go deep into space. But that gives you in my opinion that that gives you it was a great escape for me when I was a kid to leave kind of a the cares of the land behind you.
Yeah, all the worries and all the stresses when you're underwater. All of that
gets muted muted, right? It's just between you and the elements. Yeah, and maybe just a giant shark that may be
lurking in the distance. Just not right.
He said there's always on the back your head. Like let me see. I'm not a big fan of swimming out in the middle of the ocean with a mass that you can't see very well, but but the but you know, so I think I you know, so the relationship with the animals in the ocean with the weight, just with the with wow, it makes you feel like like it's like the therapy of them. So you
lean back in the womb it
is you know, yeah and you get healed from and like you can go and be in the water and you know now we get all
These science I say science follows Instinct, but you know you get do you have these ideas like hey this really like I go there and I feel different everything is different than they get some data and they're so like yeah, that's cause you're getting negative ions and thing and your grounding in your compression and all this stuff. But Andrew
huberman shows. Yeah validates. Yeah, you've been telling yourself or 20, you
know, it's true. Yeah, it's true and that's and that's kind of I mean that's pretty amazing the in this time, you know in the world that we can do that there were getting
Do that but it seems like your your instincts, you know, your gut instincts and your intuitions and all those things those serve you right? And I think there's a karmic thing. I mean, obviously the ocean is the most conductive element on Earth that if and so, you know sound travels through it sound waves, but also wave energy what we ride so, you know, and I know like karmically whenever I'm in the ocean and I and I have some negative thoughts or some feelings or something I usually
A just pay instantaneously. I think I crashed a wave comes and hits me and I'm Carmen come. Oh, yeah, that's right. I was supposed to I got a I got a shed that stuff. I gotta get I gotta get I gotta clear my another like my mom like a deeper level of
humility. I mean there's this idea that you're conquering these waves. You're not conquering these ways you're trying to yeah, we're trying to exist in symbiosis with them
Ramona's that's always talk about the harmony riding. The wave is is the act of you know, as an act of Harmony you're trying to be harmonious with it. You don't conquer
You have the
fortune to ride them for a moment and be part of them and you know, if everything goes right, but yeah, you don't there's no conquering
and you know notion that's odd. You know, my sense is that it gives you this deep appreciation for the natural world. Right? Like I've had Alex Honnold on here. I've had Killian journee and like the themes, you know, it's just this this like the Majesty of nature is is just so profound when you're you know in the midst.
East of trying to do your thing. Yeah. Well that heart of German with that harsh natural environment where the stakes are very
high the observant, you know being observed and I think that's even today like, why was that not my house and there was some Hawks that that fly by my house and and just and they come and you know, and it's in the more aware you are it seems the more connected you become to it and all of a sudden it's almost like they come over and say hi to you and you're like, hey, how's it going? They are car and they took many turn away and
I mean if you could go. Yeah, okay the hawk but did the hawk. I mean you're connecting with the hawk the hot came and but you have to be observant even see the hawk. Then you have to actually put the energy in the thoughts to to the hawk in a way that you that your how you're observing it and what your what it means to you and that happens with the dolphins that happens with the you know, the whale that happens with all the creatures of creation and ultimately nature. I mean nature is just it is creation, right?
So we talked about creation the great creation will Nature's creation. So it's so you get to observe it and I think I think being aware of it being aware of the sunrise and the sunset and the movement and all that stuff connecting to it allows you a deeper relationship with it. You just kick as you can't have this deep relationship without it without connect without having the up, you know, the observation and being aware of all these things as you become the more aware. You become the deeper that relationships become and then the more
Shows itself to you. You think people talk about going on these, you know Journeys and reconnecting with nature and I'm like if you're already connected then that you that's not going to be so profound. It's just it's so many of us have grown so far away from hey, it's hot. I'll turn the you know AC on a it's cold turn to chill. I think it's dark the lights on. Hey, you know, it's bright but the shades on it's like we're just we're insulating ourselves from from it and you know, and and obviously the ocean is the is the king because it's
alive and moving and and and has I mean all the things it can do just freezing and liquid and steam and just I mean, we just it's like the Uhn, you know, the unexpressible element. It's just has too many and
still so mysterious Mysteria, no mysterious, but on the on the hawk example, I think that the hawk example to me is an illustration of the fact that no matter where you are. You're still in nature like we have this bifurcated like idea like right now, we're not in nature like a
We need to go down to Point Dume to be in nature, but we're in nature right now. Oh absolutely is in nature. And we always have that opportunity to be more connected to the environment and the energy and everything that's going on if we can be still and observant.
Amen. Yeah, I think that that's one of the things that will help. Everyone will help Humanity the most is if we can continue to to re because we have it right we have a we have an ability to really be be connected to Nature.
Nature in a way that that we don't is so profound. We don't even fully understand it the depth of what we're capable of and what we and the depth of that relationship because you know, I always you know, we are it and it is us. I mean we're so can you know, if you think you're not connected to the sun if you think you're not connected to, you know everything and you're not and it's not you and you're not it then that's you know, right and that's the big separation right now and it seems that in the present that that we've been we've become so insulated.
That that's what's leading to people being, you know, either depressed or having physical ailments or whatever. It is. A lot of it is that because they're not fulfilling. I believe they're not fulfilling, you know this void which is what nature was fulfilling right like nature was fulfilling this void in them through just eaten even observation even just looking and connecting that way it's filling this and then all of a sudden you have this void and then you're just putting stuff in it that the body, you know.
Oh and the soul and everything can't ya can't connect you're not probably not a lot of not an epidemic
of anxiety and depression in you know, indigenous tribes that are you know, dealing with survival and connected fundamentally to the world in which they
live. You know what I mean? Yeah, that would be none. You have no allergies either but no allergies on top of that you to engage in, you know,
the high-risk kind of Adventures that you know light you up. Yeah gives you
You know it puts you in in this contact with the fragility of life or what death means that I think in livens your daily experience, right? Like how do you think about risk and
death? Well, I mean, first of all I think as is the most honest way you can live is to to know that dying is very easy and you can die any minute. Mmm. And then you how would you conduct yourself? You know what I mean? It it's and I think for me that's a daily challenge and and a weekly challenge in a monthly challenge.
Nearly challenges this to always have that kind of awareness that death is ever present. And then the truth is that the truth is that right now death has a name and it's walking around and people are it's affecting people severely because they because their relationship with death is is so insulated through just the way life has become that it's we're not living honestly like we would if we were out in nature being threatened constantly buy stuff then we'd be our awareness would be so high.
But I you know, I feel that you don't know what being truly alive is and unless without that relationship to that edge, you know to knowing where that edge is. Like when you're a kid like Hey, where's this place where you know, where do you fall off? It's just it's just a big it's if you take the evolution of what's dangerous when you're a little kid and you grow into a mature adult then you go. Okay. Well, that's the same relationships just as everything has become the scales of become bigger.
Yeah, but it's
Still
the it's still honest, it's just so honest. It's I know for me. It makes me a better person. If I if I'm if I go in those situations and in the environments and around the the strength of it the strength of vulnerability right that the strength of true vulnerability and you know, the the highest end of vulnerability is death, right? I mean, there's all kinds of vulnerability like hey get your feelings hurt and you know, the tribe might accept you public speaking. I mean people are fear that more than death because they're worried about it.
Students so but vulnerability right vulnerable being vulnerable and and and and how that makes you and that makes you just feel so alive and that's honest. That's that's
it. What's what's interesting about that is that it runs so counter to every message that we see out in the world which is all about comfort and luxury and you know fancy bullshit or whatever and were, you know, sort of fed this narrative that if we want to be happy. It's all about, you know, getting this stuff.
Tough or isolating ourselves removing ourselves from anything threatening and in truth, you're living example of this that sense of purpose or that engagement with the world that gives you that feeling of being alive only comes through challenging yourself or immersing yourself in the elements and pushing the boundaries of what you're capable of and it's something that it's not like a one and done. You got to do it your whole life. It's a practice like anything else. It's a
daily practice.
This and and and the truth is that's the irony right? The irony of the story is that that all the things that you think what you are what you need are the things that are going to are going to bring you the farthest away from your your goal which would be to feel alive and be healthy at the end of the day. Like what's it's connected to health right? It's like, you know, the irony is is that the exposing yourself to Great threat
Makes you the healthiest you can be which is the that's like that right. That's the most confusing thing ever. Right? Like okay go do dangerous stuff and then that'll make you that'll make you the healthiest. You could be your kind of like, okay. Well that seems like seems like you should be really safe and do thing and then that'll make you vulnerable to be really
sick. Mmm. You know, what's mmm.
It's that simple. Like it's really that I think there's a there's a sin, you know, I always talk about if everybody just scared themselves once a day that and genuinely scared themselves once a day it would be good for
You like it would just it would just reset bike. Everything gets reset. You're like, okay. All right. Bye kit like and I use an example of you know, sometimes you're driving down the road and you're kind of just you're feeling a little flat and all of a sudden something, you know, an animal runs out or cart almost get something happens and you get that adrenaline right boost and then all of a sudden you're just like your vision gets real sharp of a sudden you're just like everything just gets clear and you're like you're aware and your and your senses are on high alert, and then you're like and it took that it was just boom that
Quick and that that living in the state of that kind of awareness is such a better. It's just a better way to you know, it's like it's a better way to yeah, but it's
also about having a healthy relationship with that because you can you can you know, you can have an addictive have a 5-2 that that will destroy your relationships and you know, you just become you have tunnel vision over that's what's the next thing that's going to jack me up right? I'm sure you have I've got friends like that. A lot of them aren't
routed destruction.
The Wake. Yeah, exactly, right? Yeah, a lot of guys I know they mean is that
ever been like something you've had to like, you know deal with or you seem pretty grounded and and
level about the whole yeah, you know, I I mean listen, I think I was I've been fortunate to be around enough of those guys and watched, you know, I've seen a lot of good guys, you know died because of the because of the of the either that
Place in see from doing it doing stuff and not retaining that respect. Maybe they got a little comfortable. You know, it's like they drop their guard and most of the guys that I know that went down doing dangerous stuff. It was it was more about that. You know, I was just maybe too many too many times at it or too much of it and not enough balance like not enough, you know, it's like for me I feel like it's important to get you know, I guess I guess for me the when I look at it and because I'm like you said not huge like
Be a school Setter, but I have one goal in mind which is to live
to survive. Uh-huh. That's the at the top.
That's the thing and I want that and I'd like to be able to have and I like to be and I'd like to and I'd like to to be old and gray like I would like to I see that as like the objective is to be standing at the end. Right? And so if that's the goal then that means that you have to go about things not like, you know.
No burn out hot and go out on fire like because I think that that and that and that's I mean at a certain point along your course, you got to make a decision. You have to make a decision about what you know, because you can you can get caught into that right you can get caught into that and then there's something pretty selfish about that actually and so and because we're at the end
I mean when you die you don't care but what about all the people that care about you and so in a way you got your you got your people that you love your family your friends these other people that so some of it becomes that someone becomes like hey, you know what? I do. I want to do that to my kids. Yeah. Do I want to do that to my wife? I mean, we don't know that the time or the place, of course, no one does and it could be in 10 minutes. It could be in 10 days could be in 10 years could be, you know, we don't know that right. So but the honest way to go about it is
okay, we're you know, we always go any risk taking that we take we it's all about there's a there's a there's a kind of a methodical process that we go through in that so that you know, the more dangerous it is the slower you go the more the more the more preparation you have the more, you know, there's a certain like formulaic processes that you do to do things that are eating out all
the all the external noise, right so that you can you can hear your intuition and you know
know when it's the right moment
when be and be good with saying no be good with like, you know, what night sky. Don't feel it like today's off or your War when Alex Honnold is on the wall.
He was going to he was going to make the
ascent. That was the best thing not yeah. It's like I'm not doing it. I respected that that particular scene in the film room and I'm like, are there any like go that's the exact. That's perfect. I go that I I respect that not you know, what go anyway, and then timber because you sensed it, but the pressure of all the whole thing.
II can I can appreciate that because it's knowing how to make the that that's a big judgment call. That's yeah, that's yeah because those
guys were already all the cameramen had scaled up. There was nobody there was a lot of stuff that's already in motion here. So being able to like completely tune that out and not have that be part of the calculus about whether you're going to do that hard thing or not import takes a lot that takes like a, you know a solid, you know barometer import.
Yeah, and I think that that
But that's a reflection of the real barometer that allows you to do the other thing too. So at the end of the day, it takes a certain, you know for him to do that actually be able to do that climb. You really have to have a certain because people you know, I think when people watch things that are that are, you know in from their perspective, you know, beyond understanding they they like to put a they like to disclaim it as okay that that's just
A reckless person that person dis is they're just you know, they're just Reckless. They don't want to say hey. No, that's some calculated. Well, you know, we'll orchestrated prepared.
It's the endpoint on a multi-decade journey that this person's been on. Yeah, you know, it's easy to look at you and say well are you know, of course Laird can do that? Because layers layered you don't certainly you have, you know, some genetic gifts and you have a certain level of talent but to dismiss what you're doing is just
Just well, that's because he's layered is to deny like all the work that you've done like this this Dedication that you've shown over the course of your entire life to get you to the point where you can drop in on a wave that nobody's ever surfed before. Yeah.
Well, that's and I think that's the I think that that's always the part where you know, when they when they talk about people being Adrenaline Junkies and the all that guy's just an adrenaline. Junkie. I think that's a way to let them off the hook. So they don't have to actually, you know, pursue to do the work and pursue the thing.
Might be interested actually in but they'll be like, oh, yeah. No, that's just that's just the way you know, that's the way that this a disclaimer to let that people too easy often
easy way for people to not have to look in the mirror and and evaluate, you know, where they might have more potential because that's scary Gary a lot of people don't want to do that. Yeah, you know, no but at the same time there is that kind of you know addiction junkie mentality. There is a there's a strain of that in all extreme.
Sports in life, but you know, it's certainly part of the kind of historical record of Surfing me you grew up in a culture of like Play Hard Play Hard, right but you've emerged from that as somebody who I look at as you know, part of I would suspect now the young Surfers look to people like yourselves. It's not about the partying lifestyle. It's really about how can I optimize my performance in Body Mind and Spirit? Right? Like you sort of set the tone? Yeah for this next generation of
Surfers and you see it like the smith brothers are all about that. Like there's a it's a healthier ecosystem right now.
Well, you know, I listen I was I was around a lot of radical stuff. Yeah growing up and and and and you know, I can remember, you know, seeing guys that you looked up to that were like your Heroes and then you'd see him on a you know on a park bench with a paper bag and you know falling over and and just how
how painful that was as a young guy you see and as you're
like you were the guy who you were that I looked up to right
now. You're my hero and there you are in the gutter and and I saw it more than once and and I think you know, I felt like that if I was ever in that position that I would look at it like a responsibility if I'm fortunate enough that somebody will look up to me and said for some reason at all. I don't want to ever give them an
Goose to
justify and include my children, you know, I mean, it's like I I was I used to I used to but I loved you know, I love red wine I go to France. I had French company I get go to Bordeaux. They'd send me cases of the you know, most beautiful Pinot noirs in the world and I'd be like, you know, this gorgeous stuff and I was like, but I liked it maybe a little too much so I was like, you know what? I don't want anything to have quite that kind of power over me that that I could because my mother was a was
A drinker and and and you know, we had long family, you know relationship with drinking. I'm like, you know what I think that's going to be a problem. So if my daughter's decide that they want to drink it won't be because it was just part of what we did at our house and it was just like except that I'm going to be it's going to be because they discover it on their own they do it on their own but it's not going to because of me so a little bit of you know, I think a combination of all those things I seen seeing guys that you know, ruin their lives and I think deaths like bunker Spreckels, you know, overdosing and guys
And then and then he rose being in, you know, just Zero to Hero to zero and then you're looking at that guy and you're like, wow, what a bummer that is and what disappointment that is and and you know, and at the end of the day, you know leading by example, like like in a way it's the same thing as parenting to you can say whatever you want. They're just watching what you're doing. Right? So it's like at the end of the day and I think that's true with with, you know, if you're in a position of influence, I mean and I see it in a lot of major sports. I see, you know a lot of you know influential
Athletes promoting, you know stuff that's you know, poison to two people and and you know for money, but obviously they probably have enough money. They really don't need to do it at the end of the day would be kind of good to have some discretion kind of go. You know, what probably not that stuff is that stuff's not so great. And then every little kid that looks up to use thinks that they can drink that and it's going to make them like you or whatever that so I think there's a lot of things that you know, and then and then and then don't forget just wanting to opt have Optimum performance like wanting to have
I think that be able to continue to perform at a certain level and you know be the gray hair at the end be on the top of the mountain and you're not going to do that, you know being stupid so
well, you've always had this growth mindset, right like you're always devoted to like trying to iterate and innovate and all these things and that's I think harder than it seems or it looks like most people kind of figure out what they're laying is and then, you know, they become successful in that lane and then you get calcified.
It around that becomes harder to be creative and to question your set of beliefs or your approach, you know as an athlete like this is how I this is how I optimize my performance and then you don't want to hear about any new ideas or anything else but you seem like somebody who's always been really open to to learning and experimenting, you know, II tribute part of
that to way I grew up. So because I was you know, I grew up in an environment where there was a racial.
Playing against guys that look like me and so I was already I kind of had I had that I think that was helpful because I had you know, I always used to say, you know, people don't like you for how you're born then why would it bother you if they don't like how you behave and so at the end of the day it's like I think that being the willingness to be a beginner again and and not and and be okay with people laughing at you and like you being like, you know, hey, I'm going to try this thing and it's stupid and people are like, that's so dumb. Why do you you know, I
Mean multiple times through some innovations that we were involved in. I've we had people just naysayers going that's lame you're you know, that's not surfing or what you're doing is not this or so. I was used to that and then it becomes almost a formula and you know, I talked to my friend Paul the other day about you know, how we like the early part of the curve, you know, that early part of the curves nice and steep when you go from you know, a beginner to like starting to become proficient at anything. It's a really fulfilling thing. And then once you're at this other thing you're at a real
You know, you're at a plateau and you're just scraping for you know for a little tiny, you know millimeters and you know, I talked about surfing and you look at the amount of hours that we have any okay. Well another hour on the 30 or 40, you know are 50,000 hours that you have. You think that's going to make you better or is being more flexible going to make you a better is good being stronger going to make you better, you know is these other things are going to have more of an influence, but you got to be willing to
To be a beginner. I think the biggest thing is about being a beginner and willing to subject yourself to failure and being okay with that. I think I've been hurt. I've had enough injuries at help me with that process where you wonder if you're ever going to be able to do the thing you did and then not being and then having a you know, I think I mean they said to not be a narcissist and to not be a have an ego and all that that's impossible. There's no way you're not gonna have some narcissism or are some ego aspect to
you you have you have to have a bit of an odd.
Atius sense of self to even attempt these things and there's a healthy aspect to that. It's about keeping it in check right and making sure that it's not the it's not ruling the roost
exactly exactly so so but then I mean that's an important piece to it. But, you know willing to willing to fail being good. Okay with failing is important and I think and then and then what happens is you do it a couple times and then you're like, oh, yeah. I know. I'm I'm at this part in the in that journey and then you do it again then.
It becomes almost a formula right there there becomes there becomes a formulaic aspect to learning right or creativity. When you have an idea and you want a napkin then you make a prototype. Then you break it and you crash and you can't do it then you can kind of start to do it and then eventually get to a point where it's something that you can do well and it's you have things for it and then it's and then and then it's not as interesting at that point. It becomes a little less interesting and I think one thing I've been conscious of and I as and lately it's it's happened a little bit.
You know happened a few times where you don't become victim to your past past successes by saying I got to go back out and show everybody. Yeah, like yeah that like what I was going to ask if you've got somebody
else goes. Yeah finds another way. Yeah surfs a bigger one.
Do you feel like you got to get out there
and show them who's boss, you know, you're over here tinkering in your garage with new shit, but there's got to be some aspect of you
who are there is but again, I think but but
But that's where I said having a good perspective about your egos voice. Like what what is that in you that's doing it? Like why is there something saying you need to go show these show people what you can do you you did that and you've showed that and and in a way I can do that and I do aspects of it whether it's on purpose or not, but it doesn't bring me the kind of Joy or the kind of satisfaction or fulfillment.
I meant that doing something that I haven't done done and I start to realize you know that I really am inspired by doing things. I haven't done I gots the more whether it's a distance. I haven't done or a height. I haven't done our speed. I haven't done or something but something that I haven't done is a lot more fulfilling that just brings you a lot more satisfaction.
It's freeing to because you're pretty you're liberated from measuring yourself against past successes, right? I mean as somebody who I mean you're already so
buddy who doesn't really care about what other people think anyway, which is healthy but
helpful, but yeah, that is helpful. But at the same time like I know when I
go to the pool, like I don't want to look at the pace clock because I'm used to clocking certain kind of intervals and you know, I'm not able to do that now so that it's it
chat is set up and I'm doing it. Yeah
shut up and it's like I have to constantly remind myself. I'm doing this because it brings me joy, you know absolute else. Can I do or can I do something different? I'm not innovating in the sport like you are in surfing but
You have to recalibrate your relationship to these things and not hold yourself to some standard that's going to cause you suffering, right? What's that? I think by opting out and just being like well I'm going to go do all and then you're constantly a newcomer you're new and you're always you're always progressing in learning. So you're getting fulfilled through that process and then
that's usually big improvements. Those are big successes not from doing something that you can't do to do to being able to do it. That's a huge success. You couldn't you did not you did something at this level and you maybe you're doing it that
At level maybe not quite at that level I go that's just a setup for failure. And I there's a great quote that I love that it says never let your memories be bigger than your dreams and I have to say that I really think that that's important because I have friends that you know have played professional sports and and then they're retired and everything's about what they did right and that's not what they're doing or whether they're ever going to do in their life
that's going to recapture that like a sense of Glory of being in the Coliseum now, right? Yeah, and how do you move?
Forward right, so that's so and that's that that transition is pretty tricky. I think I've been 28. Yeah. Yeah, by the way, and there's probably not going to probably you know, if there could be 40 or 50 more years, right? So, you know, and so I think that that's you know, the irony is that maybe maybe I didn't maybe early on I didn't get I wasn't in the Coliseum and I didn't get the glory but then I also don't get the downfall of having gotten the glory and I can just can't it's kind of like
It's a flat,
you know, just kind of keeps going along
which you know, it's not on purpose. It just ended up that that's how it's worked out and and also knowing that you can go and and without approval you can be fulfilled so I can go out and I can do something like I'm going to Stage right now where I can get a couple friends and we can go somewhere we can do something and no one sees it no one there's not a video. There's not a film.
There's nothing no one even knows and it works and it's great and you come back and you feel like you feel when you did something that everybody saw and everybody said was great or people saw and said sucked but you didn't tell you almost it's nice to be at that at that stage. It's just it's just
it's just for you it you know, it makes it a little bit more special. That's pretty nice.
Yeah, because then you're because then ultimately you're in you know that you're not relying on the approval of other people which are
At the end there, they really truly really they don't care at the end. They really don't care about you like like you care about you, you know.
Yeah, the funny thing about Innovation is is that it does require a certain level of like foresight because we always think we're at the end point of everything like it's everything is progressed to its ultimate Pinnacle already right when surfing was at a certain competitive Apex with those short boards and all the competitive, you know, like the competition's is like well, there's nothing left to be
That are done here right and to be able to think outside the box and say well what if we try this what if we try that requires a certain, you know, there's something very unique about being able to see what what nobody else can see.
Well, that's what I and that's what I said to you in the initially was having the understanding of what things mean. Like if I make this glass right if I have this thing I think about I'm going to make this thing and it's going to shape like that you're gonna be able to put stuff in there, you know, and you can be able to hold it.
Then you're going to be able to drink out of it like but you got to see that right you have to be able to see what what the function will be at the end because that's the only way that you get the motivation to actually continue the process because it's a pretty Hardy and that kind of development. That's some can be pretty discouraging like you're some discouraging aspects to two ideas that and one of them is other people like the the truth is there's a woman who had some in did some incredible.
Innovation I don't even know her name or what she did but I do I appreciated what she said which is they asked her. You know, when you have a great idea, you know, you know, what should you do? And she goes just don't tell anybody for at least a year because they will discourage you they'll be like, you know what that cup thing that you have that's a terrible idea. And and yeah, it'll sink in you'll be like and then when you break the first one and the second one and the third one and she was right too hard too hard then you and then you
Stop and then you and then that's where so I think there's a has to be and that's why I talk about dog with the bone. You know that Relentless thing that you know, you're not really it's not really a goal. But somehow you're just constantly you just always go back to it. You're like, oh the thing I liked it and then you go back to the I have ideas that that I've been thinking about that have gone away from and then eventually I come back over here and I'm like, oh, yeah. Yeah and then and then I go away and I do some other idea that and then I go back to the one and then you just keep and eventually that one just pops its head and you know, I mean, I think everything's about
Timing. I mean, we know that it's like you could do, you know a good idea, you know 10 years ago is not a good idea today are you know, they are tears ideas today that are that won't be good for 10 more years and you know, it's like it's just
all right, right, right. So yeah, I think the foiling thing is a good example of that is because the technology is at a point where they can you know, make this available to Consumers with the electric force. I mean, that's crazy. Just out of the blue, right so
You
look back seems out of the blue, but it's not it's like when you're yeah. Yeah, we talked about that in success to when we guys go. Hey, they overnight success and I'm and the guys like have been doing this for 15, you know, I've been doing it for 10 or 15 years. It's like, you know, it's interesting how that yeah, you know when you look
back though, you know and think about the early days of you getting up on stand-up paddleboards when no one was doing it and now you look around and everybody's doing it. I mean there has to
Be like a certain level of satisfaction Larry. I mean you've created like this cultural Groundswell like this popular sport that so many people are doing because you thought hey I should get a longer paddle so I can stand up on this thing. Yeah.
Well and I you know and Gabby and I talked about it and I think I you know for me in a way. Those are my those are my reward, you know, those are the rewards. Those are the those are the trophies. That was that's like my trophy like people that I don't have a trophy case. I don't have a bunch of
Things like look at all my trophies all my championships all myself. I don't have any of that stuff. So I know Wade those are you know, those that's fulfilling when you see this incredible Legacy. Yeah. Yeah, so I see that you get to see I mean when you see a guy in Dubai with a turban paddling like that, you're like that was that went a long way. Yeah. Wow that went around the whole planet. I
was watching you for a while on NAS array and it's just wild to watch that and what was interesting.
Is that it allows you to Surf The Wave in a completely different way like you're not relying upon it cresting like are able to ride it much earlier and it gives you this longer ride. So it's a completely different relationship with the wave that that technology, you know makes available. Yeah,
it totally re which interesting we talked about with because of that that we have to re like the definition of a nun makeable a waived, you know.
A couple wave is changed. You know, what was that makeable before now all of a sudden becomes makeable or what was unrideable before now becomes rideable. So the parameters all change which is interesting how you know, you just have a different device. And now the way we look at waves and what's rideable like that's our biggest thing like like looking there's new waves that are that would that would never be considered for serve for conventional surfing now all of a sudden boiling although they did it opens up the whole new set of circumstances, which is which
Is you know which in ever populated Earth is pretty great. When there's New Frontiers and it can I guess that continues to happen and with a lot of Innovations, but where there's like a whole new frontier. We're like in a world where everything is saturated like are all you know, most of the great surf spots on the on Earth people know and they're at right there surfing and those numbers are increasing and there's only so many ways now they're you know, now they're making wave pools and stuff is to try to make up for that. But but to have be able to have a whole new, you know.
A whole new search is cool. Yeah,
but I wonder you know, it wasn't until maybe a couple years ago that I've even heard of nazare did that just I mean, it seems like in that kind of timeline of iteration. There was Makaha then there was Waimea, then there was Mavericks all of a sudden then it was about third reef Waimea. Then there was Jaws and then T Abu and then Nazar a right. So it makes me think there probably is another wave out there that no one's found their rating to
there's always
Another way that mean nasry in itself is a you know, it's a it's a there's a there's a couple things happening and now it's array which is a very photographical
wave because you going foreground of the lighthouse or whatever the needs of all of the
cliff which shows you the bottom curvature of the face and the wave also does a does a thing where it stands up for a second. It's not I mean and nothing against nazare, but it's not a like an
Mm. Mm performance surfing wave like like Jaws is like Jaws still at this moment is the is the is the best
big wave? Mmm
performance waving on the world? There's just there's no I mean, I don't care. What what big wave you go to you take all the Big Wave Riders, they'll all agree when you go to Jaws, you know, I mean, the the one thing about now is arrays that it has a there's a consistency to it and when it doubles up it has it has it has a
You know kind of a geographical phenomenon where the where the wave doubles up in two waves come together. That's why they get that the extreme height of it. So if there's a lot so there's a lot of a lot of that around around nazare that and it's in front of a cliff. So it's extremely dangerous. But as far as surfing goes like as a surfer, do you think that way if you're like, that's not an ideal way for surfing huh? Like as a where Jaws you would say that but the truth is that nazare wouldn't wouldn't even be necessary.
Without Towing that toe and as you wouldn't you wouldn't even be able to you and go to you wouldn't you wouldn't get with that? That's why I realize in a surf spot because Towing opened it up and made it become a spot. So now it's a spot because it Towing without tone. I mean you can surf nazare on some small on the small days like conventional, you know prone paddling but but it's not us. No, it's not. It's a it's a it's a yeah,
and the foiling was at the break next to nozzle nazari, right? Yeah. Well, we will both Roy
both
and and there's another wave up the coast from Nazareth at that for foiling was perfect so and actually was probably great on this last Giants Well that they had but they weren't letting us into the country over there Rush
yeah when we get there and like in the spring yeah
but we I was there in what February February March yeah
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Gone today. That's Thera gun.com Rich Roll. Faragonda.com / Rich Roll. All right, let's get back to layered. Let's talk about the fitness journey and the pool workout legendary. It's been going on for a long time. Lots of dudes, you know our part of that Community. I've got tons of friends who are either part of it or have dropped in at some time or another there's a there's a it's almost
thick at this point. Yeah, it begins with Don wildmon. Really? Yeah. So let's talk about Donna
little bit Don the king I missed on so Dawn one of my heroes is will be in always will be was is and he's passed away but Mr. Wildman,
You know started Bally's health clubs Right started. He was a founder of the largest Health Club chain in the US was in the Korean War when he was 17 and and did the Iron Man what didn't first when he was 50. I think it did 10 or 10 or 11 Iron Man's and you know, did you used to do all the all of the senior games in Utah all the bike racing stuff and and him and I I met him at a helicopter snow boarding.
Or in Canada randomly some guy just says hey that's mr. Waldman. You need to meet him go over there. And so I hey went over there and hey nice to meet you and he was sitting there and then and then cut to like two years three years later. I was down in Malibu at a restaurant that we eat breakfast walked in there Gabby and I had just moved moved there and he happened to live right up the street and then him and I just started spending time together and you know doing a bunch of crazy things. He just was an endurance monster, right?
Any any you know and Destroy work out on a bike? Yeah, he just was a monster when it when it came to just you know, suffering. He was a king of suffering. He loves suffering. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the original crew wrapped like he
had this spot down at the beach. Yeah, you guys would meet up there and he's
gyms and yeah, and he's crazy Jim. He had a crazy circuit workout that take you two and a half hours and then we ride the bike after to go eat breakfast and and and then I kind of brought all the water stuff to him.
Well, it was like he swam because he you know, triathlons and stuff but he never so I got him into foiling and stand up paddling and all that kind of stuff and and we so we started you know venturing into the water.
Right and and and
I did the Race Across America with him at least part of it. I remember being part of that something happened. Yeah Arf Arf way anymore guy got hit I got. All right. One of our teammates got got run over by the opposing team's escort vehicle broke my
Ends leg so that put us out of the racing because we were trying to we were trying to do was trying to break the record. He just wanted to go break the record with a bunch of people that no one heard of who's like a
four-man
494 man relay. It was so then you ended up like
paddleboarding down the Mississippi or something like
that. I did the Colorado. I did the Colorado. I've been down the Colorado and stand up paddle and but you know all that right all that suffering. I think we are best one was we did I call it the Hawaii 500 but we biked every island in
Why and paddled every channel consecutively so we biked across the Big Island like a hundred and twenty five hundred thirty miles from South Point to the to the tip and then we paddled to Maui then we biked across Maui then we paddle the Molokai then we biked across Molokai. We paddled the wall who by crust Wahoo, and then paddled a kowai the last battle was 22 hours. So I pedaled 22 hours on to collide then we roads out tents and we but yeah this helps that was Devon. I did suffering pain and
suffering. I did five Iron Man's on the five Hawaiian.
Zero, yeah, that was bad ass, but I wasn't paddling in between
the I took an airplane. Yeah, I know we know but so that was we've had some why had some fun with Don Don and
I and he was crushing it, right? He passed it 85, right? Yeah, so he was
crushing it all the day to the like within the last month. He just he take he tapered off and that was it. He had some he had some lung stuff with I kind of feel like maybe was attributed to all those hours on PCH, you know riding that bike and breathe.
Heavy with all those cars I think probably was in my mind. I was just like some but he but you know, he went out like he wanted to like he was good solid to the end. I think we had done a helicopter snowboarding trip to Chile the summer before so that was pretty that was pretty great. Yeah, that's why yeah, and and and I remember one of the guides we were down there and one of the guide said how because he was he'd snowboard and he'd go fakie which is when you flip around and ride the reverse stance which you know the kids.
Oof a key right? I'd like not the 80, you know that 85 year old nothing but it's like jackass
like it like Johnny Knoxville dressed up as a
guide. Yeah, but but it's but it's not actually the guy yeah. Yeah. So so,
what do you what did you take from that I mean, other than like, he just never
stopped. Yeah, right. Well, I'm rolling stone gathers. No Moss, you know in a running car keeps running. So I think you know, I looked at dawn as someone.
That that was a lover of life. Like he was really like whenever you know, I remember, you know, we'd have dinner and he'd be like this is the best dinner I've ever had and then a week later he'd be over the house. And this is the best ride ever. He hadn't he would be, you know, his grandkids would send him some radical hardcore music and he'd be playing it in his Porsche and stuff and you know, I mean he was
super but that's that beginner's mind beginner's
mind. You crazy beginner's mind and and willing to I mean when your 80s
Something you're still going to your going to be pretty crusty in certain ways. You're you know, you're going to your but he was willing to subject himself to he'd always do new stuff I could get if I said, you know I go. Hey, you want to go dive with the sharks? Oh, yeah. Sure great. Hey want to go skydiving? Oh, yeah. Hey you want to go Sail on the America's Cup? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like I'd invite him on the most random stuff. He always said yes unless he had some other plans already and was willing to subject himself to that to that. You know that that
learning curve and is
Name was actually Wildman, which is the
best part people can walk them become the wild man. I got well that's his name like Donahue wild man.
It's just perfect
perfect it what you can't make it up. That's why I'm saying you can't make that stuff up. So for me, I think to know him it was interesting because I've had friends that have passed away that I had remorse for and Dawn was if one of the first guys that I had ever I didn't feel bad about him, you know, I mean, of course I miss him and we think about him all the time and talk about him but
I didn't miss him like I had other friends because I didn't there was nothing. I felt like that no
stone unturned. No stone writer
that he was that was all good. And he and he and he crescendoed like he wanted to he wanted to go out, you know being the guy that you remember and not withering away and I think so, I think all of that I think that it really it was it was like remorse there was like there was no remorse. There was no there's no which is pretty great. I'm like if I can live a life like that.
Where people around you feel like there's nothing, you know, there's nothing remotely. Okay. Hey you missed a couple people you miss and of course and some of the stuff that you leave behind people that are hurt. But and that's that's going to there's no way out, you know without that happening but that guy lives on and it was on what you do
now lives on with the pool work. That's right lives on. Yeah,
and and you know, I think for me, you know, I always I get bored easy and I think connected to the Innovation and I don't
I try to get out of these ruts. I like to try to keep learning and getting taxed, you know, like getting taxation from the learning. You know, I told somebody when you ever you know, when you learn something how sore are you and then you know after you've done it for 6 months how less sore are you and when you've done it for a year, you're not even sore anymore. It's like the first time you run a mile. You're like you feel like you're broken and then then you got to run to and the pretty together 10 and then pretty soon you got to run 50. It's like, huh? There's no you just have to keep building where so I think there's something about that about doing
New things and the pool really came out of my disdain for like traditional swimming like it. You know, I'd be like the Orca with the floppy Finn. You don't mean the pool to make me swim and I feel like I need you know, I love in the ocean and mask and fins and you know, seeing and being moved and so, you know, a lot of my pool the pool stuff really was a marriage between the gym and swimming. How could I marriage, you know late weightlifting and swimming and and which resulted in kind of a
T you know and then we throw in heat and ice and some other right, you know other kind of exposure stuff and breath work and just always trying to change it up just to are looking for you know, looking looking to make it new and interesting and and and and try to stay out of those ruts. You know, there's just those they're easy to get in and before you know it you're you know, you're the right the bottom sitting on the grass and you can play
around with in the
Rut and think that
you're innovating but you're still very much in the Rut wife.
Something that I definitely plead guilty to and I'll convince myself that I'm working on my weaknesses, but I'm really not. Yeah as I really don't want to I don't want to work on the weaknesses because that sucks.
Yeah, right. Yeah because you're gonna feel good. No, it's
true. Yeah, it's true. But but still it all Harkens back to Hawaii because the original you know, pool workout is carrying Stones along the bottom, you know, running along the bottom of the ocean. Absolutely I've done it's not
I can
easy absolutely well and and and ALT and ultimately when you think about that Dynamic of stone caring and
running mmm,
not a lot to do is swimming. No, not at all. It has a lot to do with breath-holding and legs and legs burn the most oxygen. So whenever you incorporate Dynamic leg in you know, you know from the monofin or anytime you're using getting the quads going man that the breathing the breathing goes way up. I mean you look at long distance swimming is like don't move the legs.
Dragon dragon dragon Sedona burn often forward. Yeah propulsion is worth the amount of energy expenditure exactly your legs. Exactly
unless you have some giant fins on and that's a different discipline But but so that's so that a lot of it came out of that and then and then just first of all being in the water back to the water. So we're back in the water. We're in the water breath-holding fear of drowning that stuff is really powerful that's right there with falling and being burned and being eaten by giant animals.
So whenever you deal with that kind of psychology about holding your breath underwater and you can't breathe underwater no matter who you are yet, so that's a big psychology right that that what that what that environment represents and then you can be you know, you're in a pool at my house. So it's pretty controlled so you can then we can kind of Ratchet the the, you know, there's some fear things that we can deal with in that environment that you know, and then compression, you know, we learn about compression compression.
Blood flow through the lymphatic system that you know, like in an hour you're but your body circulates the blood through it that normally takes like twenty four hours. So you have some don'ts of different things. Yeah two different thing and then you can be real aggressive. You know, I take some basketball guys, and we do a bunch of jumping work and all of a sudden they're there verticals increase and you can take a guy that probably shouldn't jump a lot because they're so giant. Yeah, but they can jump hundreds of times without all that impact
you remove that thing that's causing all the injuries exact right? It's a great man that may be important.
Tissue around you exactly and it also exhausts you more than anything. I mean, there's something about exam whatever you're doing in the pool, man. You will sleep well at night you will you know, I don't know what that's about but you know, I can go out and run for hours or ride my bike but nothing makes me as tired as being in the
water. Well you I mean listen there's if they're even if they're saying a two-and-a-half mile swims worth a hundred twenty-five mile bike and a 24 Mile Run. That's they're telling you what the, you know, the difficulty like you're saying like to two miles two and a half miles is
Did these other things I think a lot of it is temperature? Yeah, I think the temperature you need to regulate. Well, yeah your water 7 even the water 70. It's still not 98. That's 30 degree, you know 28 degree temperature difference that's over time that so I think there's that and then I'd the psychology and then the breathing, you know, and it's but we love the wheel of the water work for that and and for us it correlates to our relationship with, you know, being in the big ocean and being in the Big Surf, you can move you know.
No, one of my theories is that that you will gain technique out of necessity right because it in order to swim a giant dumbbell across the pool. You're going to have to be efficient. Like I don't care what your stroke looks like and I can get a stroke coach and be like, well, you should move your arm to do your thing. I go. Here's a dumbbell swimming over there. If you could swim that come over there you're doing something right? You're learning your knowing, you know, yeah, you know, it's kind of like putting a giant pack on you carry a huge pack. You take it off probably going to be
faster, you know.
Like yeah. Yeah when you add the
survival aspect into it, right? Yeah, I'll get to the other side somehow exactly and you're going to use all your limbs to do it
anything you can to get there.
Well, it's also it's still like there's not it's not like anybody else is doing this right so that it's so open ended in terms of like the Innovation. I'm sure it's amazing we communal time right? It's amazing to
me that it's not that they're not that it's not being applied had hasn't been applied. You know, it's like
One of those things like you think that I mean I know from what you know, and we're always being creative now. We're starting to be able to kind of combine stuff. So we have a couple, you know different things and we put them together make hybrids. So like circuit training like, you know in weightlifting have all these different techniques and then you start to combine them and then you have yourself some new new, you know, there's always a new program you do you make that you have like a nap right the XP. We do XP we do we make that available but people but not the pool.
Because the pool is so specialized. Yeah, you know, it's just it's the the water is not something to go subject people to little breasts were don't ya drab circuit now, he's actually yeah the multiple we need to be we are very selective about we have Trainers for xbt, you know for the for the fitness stuff, but for the pools pool specific training, we have very few people that we would that will license to become a device because of because of the
water. Yeah.
Yes, like it's not
racism something to fool around and especially when you have weight and then throw in, you know, a 200-degree
sauna in between sets right and light in a cold plunge. So it's like working gas protocols into the actual workout itself. Yeah, because you think of those as a post-workout thing right or pretty workout thing, but to drop that into the middle of the whole thing creates like a whole different kind of stress. Yeah, we've
been doing some interesting stuff to like because we're always looking for ways to you know, it's like, you know run
Mile run two miles or you have to keep bringing the thing longer because you get kind of better out of you adapt, you know that we're said engine adaptable creatures we adapt quickly to and things so we shake it up but you know, one of the things that we've been doing, I mean we put the we put the, you know, we put the assault bikes and some of the other stuff in the saunas but we do one of these protocols where we do where we ride some sort of cardio assault rowing machine wanted something that boost your cardio and then we go into the eye.
Is plunge and we can do we go back and forth between those and that just has a pretty profound effect on you, but it gives you a good hammering. But you know, just when you think you always say just when you think it was safe to, you
know, right to do heat and
ice and do the thing you gotta you know, it's good. Now you got a new but we did what we decide guess we do that out of more out of our kind of our interests are you know in our search our Discovery, it's more out of Discovery like hey, what if you do this? Oh, that's cool. Let's try that and
See it and a lot of it comes from that it comes from that innocent. You know that like that child like, you know, why are kids so good with certain things like they get a they get a you know a new phone and they're all of a sudden doing everything right? Because they just they don't just go. Well what if I don't know if I should and you know, they just go in and I think that's I think that's that's healthy. All right, go about it. Whatever you're doing going. It's like good chefs are oh, I didn't think that that curcumin would make that right right or whatever.
A just yeah, you know, it's just and then that's the same I think in Innovation is really again a formula. It's like you can put it in whatever you're doing. It doesn't I don't think there's a I think the basic structure of it is the same no matter what no matter what John array you're in just change the backdrop. Like what he is it Fitness. Is it nutrition? Is it is it sport? Is it art is IT Tech is it what is it? It's like it's curiosity willingness to try things
about it kind of remote taking failure off the table.
It's not about that. It's like we're just we're going to pull on these threads and see where it leads
us for sure and failures and failures part of that process. Yeah, that's just your that's part of what you're doing. That's
so your what are you 56 down 56 what like what are you like I'm 54. So, you know, it's like trying to figure out how to continue to stay fit. Stay engaged try new things. But are there certain things where you're like, I can't do that anymore. I've noticed this about like
How I'm aging, so I have to you know adjust like where are you at with all of that?
Well, most of the things I'm doing is not so measurement or and I don't have all those data stuff to use that against me smart. But yeah, there's some of that I don't have that. Well, I only ran that my lad a one of you know, I don't have all those numbers to that would probably show some deterioration. I mean, I just think
it's part of your nature so attuned with your own body, you know where you're at. Yeah, you don't need all those things.
So a lot of
Is you know, I guess for me a lot of it is I'm just not doing a lot of the same things that I've been doing and I'm more you know, a lot of my training really has been not to hurt myself because in the past a lot of times you get your training injures you and then you're kind of like, oh, that's not great. So lately it's been more about that. Right? It's a little bit more about okay and
you know, I think the holistic thing is become. I'm better at it. Like I'm better at my diet my sleep my workout. That's not hurting me my you know, so I'm in a way I think you know whether my performances are you know, I just don't I don't I don't have any real tangible measurements of you know, hey, I'm not as fast up the hill. I mean I know when I when I you know, if I go get my 18, you know my 18 year old Protege with
And I go up the hill and he kind of you know disappears. I'm like, well, I might not a distance, you know, I might not be back here. If I when I was 18, let's just put it that way. But is this this guy Luca the yeah, even with you. Yeah. I was hearing about this. Yeah, so
he's a young big
big young big wave rider rider. Yep from Half Moon Bay and you just took him in. Well, yeah my Gabby thought it would be good for me. You know, since I'm nice I'm in a house with all women. So she she met him and he was he was you know you
Young and full of testosterone and looking to be an aspiring. It looks like he's an aspiring seal at this point. So he's aspiring to become a CEO. So I'm I have a lot of friends that are in the in the seal so that are out and in and so I've been exposing him to that. So he has a better idea what that will entail. He's a big wave surfer. He's a little bit of a throwback if pretty rare type of person in this day and age he's kind of like, you know, like
1950s Cro-Magnon man, like a little bit like this is his the way his mind works and and he so he's been good. He's helps us he helps, you know helps us at our at our home with all the details because we have a lot of stuff going on when you have you know, daughters and people and stuff and just and train he's really been with us to train so he's he's been getting and it's been it's been nice to see to watch him Implement kind of our star work and then see the result that it's had on him and he it's made him.
Strong so it's cool to see to watch him pull training and you know do hi x with gap circuit train pulled train do all this stuff breath work and heat and ice and all that stuff and watch it watch him kind of, you know, kind of
well, if it seems like it's your way of paying forward what you received right? Like the yeah, you know, you've been the beneficiary of having like strong men in your life to be guiding forces from your step. Dad and Don and Etc, right so you can do that for this kid. Yeah,
but
Well, I think that's all it's about. What do they say to at a certain point after you you know, march on the ladder. Maybe you you either want to be a king or a wizard right? Are you want to be you want to be you want to whatever that looks like, but I mean and I don't mean a king in the in the same of but you're just not one of the soldiers fighting in the thing and that you can be it's more about a wizard. I kind of like the with you know, you're like the wizard and and the guys come to see you and I always thought that when like I was when I was young I wanted to be
like this like a you know, a guy says I like the way you go see the wizard. He's in the barn over there like you go. It's like that though. We don't have he's like Hilger. Yeah, you get to go see the wizard go visit the wizard. He's over there and you know and not that I'm a wizard by any means but but I do like that because I have been that right in my life. I've been like hey Gerry Lopez, you know how like go to Jerry and Jerry be there and he's just ahead of you. He's lived more Dunmore and then you go to him and try to get
insight and it's and it's good for me if I can bestow some some some knowledge that I've been with that was bestowed on me that helped me go along my course I mean I think that like you said pay it back and I think that's I think at the end I think that is really something that is that culturally we've lost and it really goes back to you know the wise men that we you know that they're supposed to be the wise men I'm not I'm definitely not me not one of the wise men but they're supposed to be
these these people that you that you're supposed to look up to him act like they're supposed to be Elders
we Revere them further yeah literally knowledge as a photo which baby dismiss them and put them in a home exactly yeah and maybe
maybe maybe that's just because they survived that maybe that the knowledge is that they just actually made it long enough to a live that long I'm just saying like that might be it might not be anything tricky it just might be hey you can't be as like wild and you're not gonna be around 50 yeah you that you have to be around the world for 85 years without getting some zombies
Open up and even if you can just observe the guy and be like the way he does stuff. Maybe that's something too. That's Hawaiian to Hawaiian
Hawaiian right Hawaiian. Yeah, which is
which is more tribal it which is more of how we that have that the way the structure of culture has been in the past is that you had to have you wanted to have some Elders like the L, whatever the woman elder man Elder just Elders that that besides that
help the youth and because it because I think that that's something that we're missing. I think the way we look At Elders we kind of let's just like you said put them in the over there out of our out of our sight. Let's not let's not and not realizing that there's a lot to be learned and you see people that have admiration for their grandparents and they go there and with their a mean there. Those are special people, right? Those are those are special people. Usually that have that have the but also, you know, I always say cuz you know in
We talk a lot about respect right? It's always about a you got to respect a do you didn't respect me? Well, I always say yeah, but you got to act respectfully so act respectfully and then you get respected. So, you know, I think it's important that the elders act respectfully and then they could be respected. But if the elders are not acting correctly how Behavior not behaving then it's no I'm just saying that's part of the issue to the way culturally right is yeah, the owners aren't behaving correctly then it's hard to respect him because you're like well, you guys aren't even behaving correctly.
At least we're not going to but maybe they're not behaving well
because they've been disrespected to to you know, exactly exactly and we
have lost that I mean I
Glee, you know, I'm reminded of Julie my my wife's father. She grew up in Alaska. Yeah. I was an engineer. He moved the whole family up there and he he was having the most success like in the very late years of his life like he got to the point. He's like 89 he could barely see and he would keep getting hired on these jobs because
Is knowledge Native American culture respected him and they're like Wilson will come and pick you up. We just we need you and we want you there. Like he was the wise man, right and even though he's like I should be retired. Like he just couldn't quit. Yeah, and there's how great is that fall about how great is that that
you're the most needed at the end of your life, you know, we were talking because I was reading some adlerian thing that I really enjoyed and and the you know, they were talking about that sometimes the
Value is just the presence that the value is just the presence that just being there is the value of people what value to the and I go we'll listen at the certain point if if the elderly can't do anything just their presence that their their your grandma's their your grandfather's there. They just they exist and that can be enough to be a value right because we are talking about everybody being a value and you're like well that their value their there. Yeah. Yeah.
All right, I want
Yeah, you live with all these women like I got I got home
two daughters around now. You got the same age, too. They're
older. Okay, they're great. They were easy. Yeah girls will complicated trickier complicated.
You know, I I guess because I've been going through different stages of it. And you know far I was describing my position is kind of like being a post in the house like a giant post that holds the roof up. You just have to be there you don't move.
You hold the roof up. So the roof doesn't fall down and that's and that's your position. But everything is going around you but you're just standing like that and you and they need you to be there, uh-huh stationary like that. But but one thing about I mean listen, the only thing I know is I don't know anything. I know I know nothing when it comes to I'm come to appreciate that to the girls. Yeah. They're they're complex like like Grand and I think I think one also to the it's not it's a complex time. Yeah, you know on top of it, I think
It's not it's not you know, now the social pressures and I think so hard to be a teenage girl and your and then it's and then it because it's 24/7. It's not just when you go to school at school or when you go to the playground at the playground. It's not just at these places. It's all day long every day. And I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of pressure on that on them. And and you know, I think I you know for me I feel like
I try to lead by example and and and and I'm pretty pretty I mean, it's all about honesty likes to start talking about. You know, I have a conversation with my youngest daughter about makeup and she's like, okay and make I want to get some makeup and I go okay. Well, you know why you're going to you want to put makeup on right and she goes well because it makes me feel good I go no, you want to put makeup on to attract males like and should I do you want if you want you're trying to attract a male and she's like no it makes me feel good I go well.
You feel good because because that you think it might help you be attractive that's part of why you're doing it. So and it
wasn't even more complicated than that because she's on social media and she's seeing other guys hurry up doing that and you want to feel like you're part of that or you can fit in with that and there's a there's like a self-esteem thing that yes is about but it's about a track but it's also about signaling to the tribe and where you fit and yeah all that. Yeah.
Yeah. I know that but that's that's but that's
it's the that's the complexity of it right is like hey, you're doing this to fit in to do it to fit in with the girls your other girls to fit in to be attractive because that's ultimately whether you're being attractive to the girls to fit in or not. I mean, that's all part of that pressure. I'm just saying that to I just want to know I wanted her to understand that there was another motive than just her at her at the house like, you know, get for herself. Yeah, it's not just for you. It's for you're doing it for other people.
Yeah, it's not easy man. No, I feel like kids either Define themselves by trying to model the behavior or the example that you set and like kind of covet approval that way or they Define themselves in opposition to who you are. Like I'm going to I'm going to just contravene everything that you're about to create some distance and maybe that's an attention thing. I don't know, but I'm dealing with a little bit of that right now.
Where it's like everything that we're about not interested
my dad hates you have
like your daughter's going to come to you and want to ask about life advice. Like that's not happening. No
not quite I'm trying to figure out like the
right thing to do is yeah you model you you set an example you model the behavior, but you have to have a very loose relationship with the results of that and you got to be able to roll with stuff that like you didn't expect
well and I
I have a feeling that you're not going to see the fruits of your of your work until they leave that that that that a lot of the seeds that you plant and a lot of the things that you do your you won't you won't you won't see you won't see until they go out of your house and then they have their and and then because those seeds whatever it is that you planted those are growing but you can't see them and the thing that they are going to turn into is going to it's going to come after it's going to come lay it.
He's going to come. I mean I can speak for myself personally like how that later in my
eyes like 25 or something like yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and then I have and then I have you know, I 17 and 12 but but it's like I think a lot of this those fruits are going to come later on you're going to see it's going to be you know, they're going to you're going to your wish you would get to you know, reap the rewards of it. But there's none of that right? There's none of them. There's none of that. There's none of that there's none of that's
deferred for who knows how
long who knows how long you just
Hope that they come that comes out but you know, I see it happen, you know where the girls will go what you know, my one of my daughters will go be with some family and then they come back and they're the family be like, oh she's so amazing. So helpful so great and I'm like, I'm like I know I have is that we talking about
the same person.
Yeah. I know my daughter's hate the beach, you know, like all the beach. I hate the beach hate surfing a job. You hate the beach. Hey working out you're eating
that.
God set it up that way
crazy. I have a can be
your teachers. Yeah, I have a couple I have
Gabby doesn't like it when I say that but I'm like yeah I said your children were sent here to wear you out and so you can die and they can take over and then she's like, oh, yeah, that's that's just not and then my other thing is I said parenting is like building a samurai sword. You take the steel you heat it up. You beat it with a hammer and you stick it in a bucket ice and you just do that over and over and eventually it's the hardest Steel in the world. I said parenting a parent you take
Kids take you the heat you up. They beat you with a hammer and they stick you in ice and they do it over and then your tempered like when you're done parenting you're going to be like you're going to be tempered either you or your well you break break, you know, you break your done throw you back in the furnace,
right? So you've been you and Gaby been together for over 20 years. Yeah, we don't 25, uh, we're coming up on time and and you've kind of your you've kind of modeled this, you know relationship in a public-facing way, which is interesting, you know, like,
Like the way the dynamic that you guys have figured out for yourself, I think is super inspiring in that and you know, my wife and I are we strive to do this ourselves is that you know, you're both very independent people. You're not defining yourselves, you know by you know, what the other person you're not relying upon each other to Define who you are right? There's a mute. There's a respect you come together when you come together, it's quality, but
You both have your kind of independent worlds and you provide the space for you guys to have those experiences and they're not loaded in the way that a lot of relationships are where it's like. Yeah, I want you to be that guy who goes out and surf big waves but only on my terms, right and that's that's hard to get to that place. Yeah.
Yeah, I you know, I think both Gabby and I probably our childhoods the relationships that we saw around us growing up.
Up or the lack of you know, one of the two I think that had a big influence on us. I you know, I I know that you know, we talked about, you know, each of us are responsible for our own happiness. You know, that that I'll go get happy you go get happy and then when you're happy and I'm happy you come back and we'll both be happy together kind of thing like not not putting the pressure of you know, I'm fortunate that she's that she
Has you know Angie, I guess she can say she's fortunate that I'm I'm completely you know, a fan of Gab, you know of Gabby's and and in her corner and support her in things at times probably I wasn't exactly stoked about but but it was more important that it was more important for me to to to be supportive of her than it was for me to vote my my opinion or my feelings.
But I think that was a big piece of it that I would always and she's amazing that she doesn't ever put the like any of my my passion or my draw as something against her. It's not taking away from her as something like oh you did but it's taken away from her. And so, you know, I the combination of but we you know, if it's funny because we were, you know, we've talked about this before.
In the past that it's like her and I think we have enough we were scared enough of each other that were like, it's a cold war, you know, it's a cold we have a cold war. We're just we knows it's that we both have nukes. We both could drop them, right? It won't be good. You could die from The Fallout. Sure. Do you get a chance its sheer Destruction for everybody? No matter whose fires. Let's not fire that and keep that in so I think that's been you know, and we've had our we've had our you know, we've had our ups and downs like every relationship and every effort and
I think I mean every it takes effort in the relationship to make it but but you know, they did a study with 10,000 couples and they said that the only thing that was consistent amongst all successful couples no matter what the Dynamics were was that the man respected the woman and so for me that was you know, I have a ton of respect for Gabby as a person and and and then and then as a woman and then as a mom and as a you know, I just all of
of her as a person and so and I had also had a great relationship my mother and I have a lot of respect for my mom. My mom was a hard-working lady and you know, raise some children and some men too. And so I you know, I have that. I think that that that and I can I don't think any just did any just any guy could be with Gabby. I mean God men have a hard time sometimes with women that are strong because they just they either green. She's here. She's so she's pretty
elf. I would yeah.
She checks the alpha box. Yeah, you know and many category in your relationship. Yeah, which is and which is mirrored more that you can be more of the teddy bear. Yeah affectionate guide. Yes mystical. Yeah. Well you call me in when
it's when when when the when you need some real dirty work done, you know, you know what I mean with the toilet breaks. He called me or I get when there's a bear outside or you know, like right she's
I mean, she's a force of energy when she walks into a room you've got to reckon with that.
That's true no time.
Yeah, but you it was great. I think II think it I don't think I would be able to respect her if she wasn't I don't think I think that if she gets her power, yeah, if she didn't have that I would be a would I mean I would respect her but it wouldn't be the same like like like I do. Yeah, I
want to talk about Laird superfood. Okay. So you like you guys just took this company public right? Did I saw pictures of you? Like ringing the bell at the stock exchange? It's just like a fish out of water thing
hard to believe. I know hard to believe actually got to ring the bell.
Wild man when he when valleys where they wow, but so I was able to but I had nothing to do with this is a whole different thing. This has got this has got my name on it and right and the fact that we were in a position that the business has been, you know built like it has been and and run like it has been the only reason why we were able to go public so that that was a that was a that was an education. So I was I was in I was in go public.
No small thing cool. Yeah, that would that's it. Well just the whole process is it is amazingly elaborate complicated like it's a complicated. I wonder how come as many companies do I like giving all there is to do and and the details and we were fortunate enough to have great people that that that was you know, yeah that was
taken care of get it I mean obviously suits you perfectly because it's so part and parcel of your ethos. It's really just a manifestation.
Asian of you and your lifestyle it's dying. That's the
irony. I'm just saying that's the irony is that we all
think, you know, you you mature into something that you're not right like the idea that you're in New York City at all. I know you spent a year there when you were a kid, but I like those that Soil and Water. Yeah, but when I look back over the course of your career, like you're somebody who's done lots of deals and had licensing and you've had this product and that product and some of them work some of them.
Didn't work and I've always looked at it at an arm's length from a distance and not really knowing anything thinking like he just needs to get with the right partners because this guy's got so much to offer and maybe he's not partnering with the right people. So I look at Laird superfood. I would clearly he's with the right people and this is working and it's like it to me. It feels like long overdue that you
should I appreciate things like a long time ago. I appreciate that. You know again, it's all about timing. I think the timing of it at think it's you know, I mean, it's like
Anything maybe you I might not have been in the position to appreciate it. Like I am now, you know be if it was earlier or and maybe just wouldn't have wouldn't be what it is if it hadn't so, I think that's a big piece of it. It's like the timing of it if I had to say hey when you know, you get to choose whatever it was going to happen. I the way it's happened and and and and the truth is that you know, Gabi and I talked about this before, you know, we've been very cautious about who
we align ourselves with throughout our careers and and just about what brands and is it reflective of our brand and all those kind of things and and and the truth is that we had to you know, ultimately build a brand that was reflective of our brand that was that in that mean that's that's and that and they were that we were able to but but that's the truth the truth is that you want to do it, right? Yeah do it yourself Elmo. Yeah. Well, we just because there was no one there was no business that we could think of that really truly reflect reflected our you know our brand.
Like like like this does because it is our brand so it's so I think that's a big that's a big piece of it. And you know, and again I always look at ideas like all ideas and you know and superfood is one of them that because everybody's everywhere were also caught up in monotone. It's all about monetary, right Muhammad is how much that meant and all that stuff, but I always think that it's about ideas right? And so if you think about
How big is an idea right? Well, let's just think how big is the idea of Facebook. Pretty big idea. Was this an idea? What was the idea why I'm going to connect people and the thing and then you got Facebook, right? So, how big is any any of these these these I how big is you know, how big and ideas is the Apple phone or how big is the idea is, you know stand up paddling in my little world or how big an idea is, you know, whatever the idea is and the other stuff comes later, but that but the
The idea itself. You know, what? Is that like that? What is the what is the nucleus of the idea? And I think that's the you know, that's the idea is
potential, right? Yeah. So with this the idea is how do I get people eating better? How do I get people eating healthy? How do we eat excited about eating Health,
please? How do I get stuff in people's diet that aren't like people are out there that aren't eating. Well, like they don't even don't even have an opportunity to even understand what eating well is
or never heard of turmeric which by the way
Everyone is yeah fresh turmeric and
quiet ever. You know what I mean? I'm just saying like they don't have any they don't have any idea or the resources or the availability are all those things. So I think that's so it's really about that. I about that idea and I think you know, it's in our nature. Let specially Hawaii were Aloha is really about helping about sharing like it's of sharing culture. I mean we have other things about it, but one of the things that that I was gifted when I was a kid was that I was shared with you know that you that there was a lot of
Hot that Aloha is sharing. I don't know. Yeah and Ohana exactly. So the but that I think I think I think how you know, I think it's it's about ideas at the end that all of this stuff is about ideas and then what you know, and then seeing how big the idea is what's the potential of an idea of an ideas like I mean everything we have going on right now every company that you see I mean our country I'll just everything everything's about ideas in the potential of what they can be and and then
When you know trying to maximize that how big how you know, it's like the idea of toe and now you have Nazareth. It's like right things disappear to
reflect a concept. So but it's a trip man. So in this case though, you're not going into an office and managing people right? Well, that's not like that's not my skill set. That's I haven't formulated.
I have a part of a partner right? Whoo-hoo. Does that very well. So he he that's his his his
Is gift that we have and we're attracting where we attract good people like we just it's the you know how that is. I have a thing. I used to tell Gabi then called a honey line, which is you know, when you see Abby you follow the bee and then another be and then pretty soon you're at the hive and that's where the honey is. It's like so good people attract good people. So we have you know, we have a were attracting really good people, you know, the the majority of what I'm involved in is just of course always products like what what were and then marketing because it's
It's what we it's what we've done gaving. I've been marketing for our careers. We have to be self self marketing because our platforms were so tiny. You know, we talked about are the size of our platforms have been so, you know volleyball and surfing mean there those are little platforms. And so you got to be pretty creative to survive in those. You know, it's not like, you know, NBA or NFL where you
just know it's different now, but you but you both transcend those subcultures like you're you know, you can both go
By your first name people who you are and you stand for an idea. That's much larger than your sport. Yeah,
and when I did we've been fortunate to be able to do that to you, right? So there's It's a combination that you know, and I tell young athletes all the time I go Hey, listen, if you if you it's important for you to know how to talk. It's important for you to know how to behave in public in a way. It'll bring you a lot more opportunities because you can be great a great athlete, but if you can't talk
Talk and you don't know how to act you're going to have a you're going to have a limited potential and you can actually be not as good and have and be well-spoken and know how to conduct yourself and you'll have you'll have a pretty good, you know, you'll have a better opportunity to actually, you know,
make a living from it. I think Young athletes intuitively understand that because it's all now about social media and developing this platform. Right? Like it's not just oh I'm on this team we can understand they have to take responsibility for
Career trajectory and they can be riding the bench and and become the most yeah popular important player because I figured out how to get people to care about what they have to say. Well
there are but they're also seeing the chain rx2. Yeah. They're also seeing the train wrecks do so they're saying they're seeing the both are seeing the instantaneous failure of greatness. And then they're seeing the success of subpar, right? So you're seeing both. So they're having there's a there's a, you know, they're they're they're getting a pretty good spectrum of you.
No, what what not doing it right or what doing it right looks like so there you know because we're at the end we always talk about monkey. See monkey do right. Where the that's what humans are. We when you see it, it's hard to be the monkey. That doesn't see in does that's the that's always the trick but inevitably, you know, there's what do we say? There's nothing new just a new application of an old idea. So you think you're the first person to ever think of something or do something as I always find that pretty arrogant because it's like no that's not honest honest is theirs. It's
A combination of you know something or some other thing that's been done in some way and then you're just making a hybrid combining it and you know, yeah,
that's cool building from it on that note. You being the wizard and all these people making this pilgrimage to your house for the pool
workout that see there's an aspect of
it. I mean, there's some interesting cats that roll through that right and I would suspect that that's its own Manhattan Project, right like you have a lot of really compelling.
When people doing interesting things in the world that you're spending quality time with pretty amazing, I would suspect you've learned quite a bit from this cast of characters, right? What does that look like for you
pretty amazing pretty amazing.
You know sometimes Gabby just you know shakes her head whether it's you know, I mean, we you know, I reading something or some book or something and then it's next week. Hey, so and so wants to bring such and such the guy that wrote that book or you know this so we get a lot of that, you know, we get a lot of that a lot of that but you know II feel like again the honey line or even in nature when you're observant, then you get to observe more. It's I think when you're interested in in
These subjects and you're you're interested in health and wellness and you're interested in Fitness and you're interested in longevity and you're interested in performance and you're interested in Morality and whatever you're I mean, you're just interested in these things. And your and your and your meeting people that are interested in them.
There's David Sinclair
showing up their day and then they know somebody that knows somebody and then you have those guys and then so so we get you know, the truth is we get a really
Array and diverse from generals to to you know athletes to perform its peep two doctors perfect. You know, we're I mean we get mathematician, I mean we just get it's like a the spectrum because what you realize is that that it doesn't you know, I always tell I always say that people I go listen being a servers like being alcoholic everybody's one. It's just whether you drink or not. Mmm. Everybody's a surface is whether you sir.
So far not so when what I'm saying? Is that everybody there's somebody in every field that's into health and wellness and and and and learning and creativity right in no matter what field they can be lawyer doctor the the, you know politics whatever they are, but they're so that's your what you have in common and so once you start meeting those people and then you got you know, you got your friend Rick Rubin and he's he knows 38 like hey, you want to meet this professor of so-and-so right like
Sure. Now I go down to his house and meet the guy and then the guy goes. Oh, yeah, I have another guy and he said and then before, you know, you like all of a sudden you you know, I mean the world's tiny when you don't know anybody wouldn't you know people it's it's like you're it's your Niche the next door. It's the next room. It's like it's even smaller. So when you don't know anybody, it's small when you know people it just becomes especially like-minded people, right? So when you have all these, you know, when you have all these smart people that that are are interested,
It because what you realize the common denominator in all those that group learning mmm, they're all want to learn they're all interested because all the spark people are learning are people that learn that's what they do. That's why they're smart because they're always learning and like hey, what's this? Oh, what's that? Oh, you're doing that. Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, you know when you just see that and that and that's the that seems to be the Common Thread right? It's like you never want to you never want absolutes and you don't want anybody that thinks they know soon as the guy says. Oh, I know you're like, right.
Yeah, that's not
Sure, you've had any guy who shows up who's full of vim and vigor and we oh, yeah, I give those to happen dick measuring contest. I
get those to Gabby Gabby takes him in the deep and he takes them in the deep end and you know, we'd run first we give we first, you know, Gabi a girl a woman. Yeah takes him over till then they think oh, yeah, I'll have a real fighting cats not realizing that you know, she was raised by dolphins. And so she's over so but yeah, you know, we I mean, I always I think it's like a mirror, you know.
No, he's like a mirror if the guy comes with with, you know, a little edgy. Just give an edge, right? Hi, he's gonna he's gonna get what he came here. For sure. We won't let we
won't let you down cool man. Well, I want to be respectful of your time. Yeah, and and let you go here, but maybe before we do that given your unique skill set and life experiences and Adventures and everything that you've you know experience your whole life.
You have a unique lens on the world. Like when you look at how most people live their lives. It's very different from how you live your life and you know being conscious of the fact that
Most people don't have the luxury of being involved in the kind of things that that you are. What do you like? What's the what's the advice like that? If you could just reach your hand out to the average Joe who's you know doing the normal thing of working the job and paying the bills and raising the two kids. Like what is it that you want that person to understand about life that perhaps their myopic to or can't see
Well, that's a that's a that's a very tough thing. I you know, I have a friend called me the other day and and you know, and my obviously the time that were in is a heavy time right now and some people it's real hard on and some people it's not as hard on but it's a real kind of time of uncertainty right where which they always are but this one is overtly uncertain, right? This is very overtly uncertain and he said, you know
You know what, you know what he just asked for some advice and I'm like, I'm not in the position to give advice but but I but I said, you know, I did say, you know be honest.
work hard
And try to have fun I'm you know, like but but there's I think there's something about remembering that there's still these Foundation things about you know, it's important to be honest. You just got to be honest. We ought to be honest honest honest, I think Honesty in relationships and friendships and work in in life that I think there's you know, and just all the things. I think that that's a 9 and work hard. I think we got the I think there's no way to I wish there was a way to
You know that mean to work hard, you know, I always wild men and I used to laugh because he was retired since he was 50 and and but if the amount of work he did every day compared to people that work you couldn't even begin and then also you got to have empathy for the people that you know that everybody's got a burden right. So everybody has a burden and you I think we have to be conscious that we got to you know lately. I've been trying to operate more with more tolerance and more kind of, you know, just more more just be aware that that there's people are under
I'm a big thing. But we and you got to go you got to figure out how to have fun. You gotta have fun. Do if we don't have fun. It's all it's not it's not worth. It's like like I said, I just say go surfing but I meant like just do think do something that brings you some sort of enjoyment your version of Sir. Yeah, whatever that yeah, it's there and everybody has their their their thing and I think you know, I think two of you know, when we're if we just can focus on the you know, it's kind of like, I mean, you know this better than anybody you know, how when
Are what are you doing? You just looking at the next step? You just keep in your eye. You're not looking at the distance and going man that moment that mountains far away just look down and you just
keep keep keep your
feet going and before you know it you're like wow. I'm at the mountain now, but if you're looking at and I think that's a big piece of I think right now, I'm just yeah, I mean, it's there it's enough to try to just you know, live sufficiently today. It's enough effort to just work today. Dude, what you need to do today. Take care of your family people you love today.
Just keep your head down and that and I think that a lot of the stuff that I think less of the stuff will bother you and then a lot of the stuff will be behind the
will go behind it's hard though when the pressure is on and you're putting that one foot in front of the other to feel like you can indulge yourself with play or
having fun. I know that and that's where that's why there's a balance aspect to it. I think that that's where you're looking that's the balance of it, right because all that dirt all that stuff, you know, and
I mean for that's why people are you know going to bars is because they're trying to get that release but you just have to figure out a way to get that release. That's that's productive not destructive. And so if you can just because that's the balance the equilibrium because if all work and no play makes Johnny a dull boy. It's not getting you just can't you have to figure out what that is, whatever that you know, I mean, some people can be as simple as just going to a movie so they just get to leave there somewhere be you know, you do meditate meditate do some breath work and I mean it go for a
Swim go for a bike. Go for thing. Go for a hike you go in the sauna and you know boil your brains going to i7 freezer. So something something something just something to create
some sort of talk you out of the real a little bit. Yeah, just to
create a little bit of tilt on the on the other side because because all these other stresses are just going to they're just pulling us they're pulling us down, you know. Yeah.
Yeah I get that. Alright last thing. What's the wave?
That's Still Remains on surf like the metaphorical wave-like. What's still out there that you're thinking about right now? And you're laying Brick by Brick that maybe we're not going to see it for five years, but it's on the brain.
Well, I definitely have a project to go out in the go out into some sort of some sort of, you know stuff you see on you know, National Geographic when the ship's going into the big, you know, whether it's down in the
In 40s or up in the North Atlantic or out in the aleutians, but some project to go out into the big ocean and right ride the big ocean out at Sea. Hmm. So that's something that's in my head and I'm working as any boards on
that. No.
No, I don't know. I probably should probably shouldn't want to yeah, just like in the middle of this ocean is something. Yeah. Well, I mean you need the infrastructure, you know, you're not by yourself. You're going to need the right.
People and the right pieces, but that's something that I've been thinking about that. I'd like to I'd like to try to at least do that. That's pretty cool. Well, it's just there it's something there to be done. That will be I have a feeling it'll be something special when that
happens. It's a fact man. All right, you're at at all the socials right layers superfood Taka Taka to the smart people.
Yeah. Are you guys in
Whole Foods? Yeah, you are, right. Yeah Nationwide. Yep. That's
tough. Yeah, we're good. I appreciate that. It's all plant
based.
That's good stuff. Yeah, non-GMO. Yeah, just the purest simple,
right? I use you got to love it when you just see on the creamer or five ingredients. You gotta love that. I've got a beautiful got a beautiful routine right now the protein powder. We have a protein
powder. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. Okay good. I got sent me a bunch of stuff. Okay. Damn
it. Yeah, see, I don't know anything. I know I got mine. I'm on the need to know why I need to know exactly they don't want the Bell. Yeah exactly get in here.
And ring the bell and they call me listening. They unlike the I do well like in disaster type stuff like call it the flood call them in the fryer call the fight. You know, they call it call me in for the call me in for the you know, the big side. Otherwise you'll be you'll be found above should be preparing to be able to be ready so that I get when I get called in I can do it. There's always that you know, it's like the fire department, you know, it's going to happen. But you just gotta write you gotta train all the time with the idea that this not happening right now, but it could any second Maybe.
Tomorrow next week or next year cool.
Alright, man. Thank
you. All right back and talk to me again sometime. I look forward to it these.
I'd say that was fairly epic
epic is a word that is horribly
overused in my opinion. But I think in this case, I think it's appropriate that was truly epic. Be sure to give layer to follow on the socials at Laird Hamilton surf on Instagram and at layered life on Twitter. Check out his New York Times bestseller force of Nature and you can find all his plant-based nutritional awesomeness at layered super food.com. I'm enjoying his matcha at the moment. Also his
New plant based protein this is not a sponsored thing. I'm just really digging those products reminder that my new book voicing change is now shipping globally. I'll even sign it and it's available only at ritual.com /vc. And if you're looking to dial up your plate the plant power meal planner is where it's at thousands of customized plant based recipes at your fingertips with access to nutrition coaches seven days a week all integrated with grocery delivery right now running a special deal.
$20 off gift cards when you go to meals dot Rich Roll.com now through December 25th, if you'd like to support our work here on the show subscribe rate and comment on it on Apple podcast on Spotify and on YouTube Share the show or your favorite episodes with friends are on social media and you can support us on patreon on it, which role.com / donate Today's show was produced and engineered by Jay-Z camiolo the video edition of the show was created by Blake Curtis Graphics by Jessica Marie.
The portraits by Ali Rogers sponsored relationships are managed by DK David Cohn, and theme music has always buy my boys Tyler Trapper and Hari appreciate the love. You guys see you back here shortly soon a couple days until then get outside engage with nature get outside your comfort zone love the people in your environment and be well peace plans.
