Artist Spotlight: Exploring the Web1 Genesis of Heaven Computer with Godmin

Glitch art is the art of corrupting files in order to get artistic results from the corrupted outcome. That means that any file that you can turn into a ski, any human readable format can actually be very easily glitched. So what is happening? There is just fbx files, just being glitched and then parse.

Just back into fbx and that's just basic getting to the raw file, playing around with the values in a controlled manner because if you break it too much, it becomes completely unusable the file, so it's not just breaking. You have to be very careful. It's always very

Was godman the artist behind Heaven, Computer Heaven. Computer is a 3D generative glitch art in a T-Series that feels very much. And this is how they put it like a throwback to 90s. /. Y2K Nostalgia. Godman is a full-stack engineer. That means that she has done all the coding, both on chain and off chain. She's definitely an up-and-coming artist and someone to pay attention to let's chat with her godman. Thank you so much for joining me on the show.

Show, thank you for having me.

I'm excited to get into your background. I mean, I've, I know about you, honestly, I think the first time I heard about your work was through Flamingo, Dow, and I was in a group Flamingo call and we have these weekly calls where we discuss all the like ours that were excited about and several people were ranting and raving and saying she's awesome. Like she's feeling really cool stuff, like you need to dive in here.

Air. And that's that's what kind of got me down this path. And I'm glad we got a chance to reconnect and figure out how to do the show together. But I'd love to bring the rest of the audience up to speed and kind of talk about your personal Journey. How did you get involved in this crazy

world? Wait, which crazy word nft world or just look yellow? Start even further back. Like let's talk about your the I

think that you have one of the coolest websites out there and it seems super geeky so correct me if I'm wrong, but from an outsider looking in, you look like,

Pretty hardcore like geek and I say that in a very endearing kind of nice. Nice

Yeah, I take it as a compliment. Yeah, so I started kind of learning how to code when I was. I don't know if it counts as cold because at the time, it was just basic at HTML HTML, web sites CSS didn't even exist at the time. But yeah, when I was around ten nine, I would make websites for at the time. It was Gio cities and Angel Fire. And yeah, people would create the illusion.

Little universes there with their pages and that's how I got my start. And when creating this project having computer. I obviously drew a lot of inspiration from that era because he was when I was most passionate about coding in making websites and creating digital art in a way.

So yeah, that's how that was. My main

inspiration. What part of the world did you grow up

I grew up in Rio and that's okay. Brazil

catcher in and so were you just always around computers when you were younger, was a something the family had in the house, or did you have to go outside to learn about these about

Yes, at first, we had it at our home, but then at some point, something happened with our family. That's not be able to afford internet anymore. And then for a while, I would just take my lunch money that my mom would give me when I go to school. And instead of using that for lunch. I was just starve and use that on the cyber cafe. So I could work on my websites because if not, they would just be abandoned and I didn't want that at the time.

Seriously, we ski tree skipping school or were you just doing this after school to go into the

cybercafe school? I was just not eat at school. I don't think I ever skipped cool for that. But I was just go after school and used to lunch money there.

I remember the cyber cafe is that was kind of like the place to go, you know, like if you just wanted to get online and you didn't have a machine that was that was the only way to kind of get online, get online and access the internet, you know.

Yeah. I was a very skinny.

Kid, but I was very happy kid and my cyber cafes leave my websites. I think it paid off in the end. I guess. Yeah,

it's a, what led you from building websites into kind of more Advanced Techniques. Was it something where you had this creative side? I mean, if you were building websites, I take it that you were, you were flexing that creative muscle, right? Like it wasn't. Was it for clients, or was it just for yourself

personally, so,

When I was a teenager, I actually did websites not websites, but I would do those first Myspace and then Tumblr, like layouts or things. And so I actually made my first money Myself by selling those. I would sell them for $5 to $15 each. Most of them were free, but sometimes people would pay for them and that was really exciting because I felt like a very independent 15 year old. But

Then I went to choosing a career. I did not. It did not occur to me to actually do anything related to coding. So I actually went into the fields of Sciences and arts, but I ended up not really graduating from any of the university courses that I attempted and only more recently. I decided that when I was studying art, I was doing techie art, when I was turning astronomers.

I was very much into the tech part of it calculating stuff and creating software for calculating these things. So I realized that, no matter what career, I was pursuing the main thing that Drew me to it was technology and creating tools and coding tools us. Like, why don't? I just actually work as a developer. And that's when I decided to First Take on some freelance jobs, and then actually go to university for

Or it

is very cool. And so it was it when you got to University and he said was that computer science to read that you are

after. Yeah, the latest attempt at University hook there was computer science, your head.

When you say attempt is that just because you didn't feel that, you had kind of fit in there, or was it is it is not your

thing. I, I mean, I've been to University six times. So I like I've tried six times to graduate from one course, but I think

I don't know. I say sometimes that if I could combine all my college courses, I would have the most interesting bachelor's degree. But sadly, that's not possible. So, you know what? It looks like. It's just attempts, but I from, that's how I call it, because that's how it is. But the way I see it is just, I was able to explore different things, and learn different things and have a very

Multidisciplinary worldview because of that. Yeah, that

makes a ton of sense. I mean, I you you're speaking my language because I'm in the same boat as you. I went to school for a few different attempts, you know, and it just like I was always the kind of person and I'm curious if you're the kind of same way. It sounds like you are in that. I wanted to like have a little taste of everything. I want to learn a little bit of everything, but then none of them really drew me into the

Level two where I was like, oh, I'm all in on this. You know, like I just kind of like to dabble. Like would you consider yourself kind of like someone that likes to experiment and just play with a bunch of different things?

Yeah, exactly. I I have a white. There's so many things that interest me within the realm of Arts and Science and Technology, but I have always been like a builder I Creator. So, when whatever I was studying, I wanted to create tools. I wanted to build something in one to create even art, even in when I was studying astrophysics. That was, I always thought of it as what?

What is the intersection between this and arts? So I think yes, there's a wide variety of interest. But at the same time, I feel like there's always a common denominator there that I always find something that

it's not uncommon in the most unlikely fields of knowledge.

And when you say you, you kind of found this these these things that are in common like when did some things start to solidify for you as a career path? Like how did these all come together? Was this something where you just said? Okay, why don't need a computer science degree, but I can write code to where I can go and start building things. So I'm fine with that. Is that kind of like the the first path for you than as an

engineer? Yeah. No, I know.

Awake, Ted a bit company know. I've always been kind of doing, like I said, I would say, depending on how what you call professionally, one could say that when I was fifteen and selling stuff for Tumblr, then I had like my own small business because I was selling and making money off of it. And that's kind of always how it's always been with my professional life. As a developer. I've always been kind of

Doing my own thing and learning finding ways to earn money on my own without having to be hired by a company. So, that's when I learned about web 3. I was extremely excited about it because I learned about how artists and professionals were tokenizing their time and house and, and of teas. And so as someone who's always worked autonomously and it has always been very passionate about it. There was, I was not

Really drawn to it.

It's a, what was the first web? Three thing that popped up on your radar, where you said? Oh, there's something here that I need to go

explore. I first learned about crypto kitties. I was obviously a bit intrigued, but not all. I need to pursue this. But and then I learned more about us, not just lfts, but the whole web three Echo System, I really enjoyed the concept of tokenized tokenizing.

Your time, for example, there was something that interested me at the time and also dowels. And but I think what really made me think. Oh, I'm gonna do this. I'm Gonna Learn solidity was when I looked at the code for all the glyphs and I thought how cool that they can print it's generative art collection, just with this disability code. So that was yeah Auto Glass was what?

Ultimately converted me, but I was already a bit interested in it, but by learning about thousand.

Yet what can be done with tokens?

Did you immediately start to pick up solidity at that point? Did you start to dabble in

Yeah, actually the code for Auto Glass was probably the first celebrity code that I played with. Yeah, but then yeah, I purposely watch tutorials. I did some took some courses, I even bought a book which, which first of lid, it is pointless because it changes so quickly. Right? But yeah, I did that.

And when you started creating your own contracts, what were you at that point just doing more kind of tooling and experimentation on some of the test networks are what was the first official thing that you deployed on your

own? Because I did not have any money to buy your theory. Mm. I did not deploy anything to maintain it.

Until I deployed having computer. But well drink be has its full of stuff that I was testing since 2019. Yeah, there's a lot of rink. Peaceful of my test contracts, but you're not nothing until the launch of having computering on the main exit.

I'm curious, is having computer than was your first official project. Can you walk?

Through what your thinking was there and even like the process to get up to that point like to have the courage to go out and spend the money and launch this.

Well, at, when I started with NF teeth, it was like, 2019, etherium wasn't even that valuable at the time and if there wasn't nearly as much hype is around then ft's as there is now. So but I thought the potential for it and I just knew.

Knew it would be big. I didn't think you would be financially big as it is. Now. I didn't think people would be paying Millions for Punk's, but I knew there was a potential for the technology there. So, but because I've been learning about it just from a technological point of view. I've been more or less ignoring the token omics, and marketing and financial aspects of it when I was learning about it. So, when I design,

Played it. And I was basically became this person. I was just learning in the background and I was like thrust into the middle of this crazy world. That is the world of NF T's and the day I launched having computer wizard day. I learned what rug pulled means. So yeah. It was like having to learn web 3 from this complete different point of view that

And what was the thinking behind the initial Heaven computer? Like, what did you start dreaming up? What did you want to

create? I wanted to create a throwback to because I think the web 3 has a lot of things in common with web one. And I saw these people creating their own little Universe has just as, just their collections or their project and

in the same way that people used to do for her web, three web one websites. I would spend just days just walking from one page to another page and Jill cities. And one was about horses and the other one was about cooking and the other one was about Witchcraft, and it was just just, you just popped from there to there. And I, when I saw all of these projects coming out and all these different dolls and I

I thought it had a similar vibe to me. Hmm. And so, I felt it made a lot of sense to create something that would communicate. The web one decentralization and creative. It was a very creative time. I think for if you even if you had zero knowledge in HTML, it could still make a website and be a web quote-unquote webmaster. So yet that rebellious.

Time reminded me of web

30. Yeah. II feel the same way. I remember those early web one days and when you talk about geocities, it just brings back these flashbacks of like picking the right Street and like having like, you know, these individual little pockets of unique, you know, just something you pop in and you get there was excitement about like seeing people's neighborhoods and like what was going on, you know, like a

metaverse before the

metaverse, right? Exactly.

So when you actually thought about putting code Down For What visually having computer would look like, what was, what was the thinking

there? Well, I wanted it to be very true to what early Windows the early. The late 90s, these early Windows versions. They were known for being very glitchy and full of bugs and very

Slow. So I thought it would go very well with the glitch. Aesthetics. And so,

I thought it made a lot of sense to put these glitched out ghosts inside this machine that is reminiscent of a very glitchy machines in the late 90s. And even if you go on the website and you drag the error window, he will, you can see that. It's like the error window would have leave that trail back in the

day. Yeah. I remember

that. So all of these with these

He's very small details and that was the feeling. I was trying to

That's awesome. Yeah, I'm playing around with the website. Now you for people that don't that don't know what we're talking about. You got to go to heaven dot computer and it'll give you a sense of like it brings you right back to. Like, I don't know what it would. This would be like one is 95 or something like that. Like yeah, it's a very cool interface and then the actual entities themselves. You have these three columns in the background. Can you kind of describe that whole layout? There's like a little, is that a pool in front of them? Like, what did you what did you design?

In there.

Well, there was inspired by Greek temples is actually a pocket version of it because I wanted it all to fit inside the picture. So yeah, it's it looks more like a tiny jacuzzi swimming pool than an actual Temple. But yeah, it is inspired by Greek mythology, but actually it's inspired by vaporwave that is inspired by

Mythology, and I thought these exciting things would go take very well together.

How did you actually

code and design this? Because it is, you know, very glitch and just insanely wild some of these. They look like creatures in some sense. What these these kind of like Rick, the bands coming off their extremities. What did you code this? In?

It's all JavaScript, actually, but so the glitch, if, if you had to Define how to glitch in simple, very basic broad terms, you would say

It's glitch. Art is the art of corrupting files in order to get artistic results from the outcome, the corrupted outcome. So, what does that mean? That means that any file that you can turn into a ski? I think that's how it's pronounced. Any human readable format.

Can actually be glitched very easily glitch. So what is happening? There is just fbx files, just being parsed, being being glitched and then parsed back into fbx. And that's just basic getting to the raw file, playing around with the values and in a controlled manner, because if you break it too much, it becomes completely unusable the file, so it's not.

Breaking. You have to be very careful with. It's always very controlled. And so, there is an algorithm that like, plays around with the original values. And then parse, is it back? And that's the outcome.

And so in some sense did you just randomize the outputs for these is because there's a total of, of the having computer. There's what 7000 777. Is that right? Hmm. Yes, correct. And so did you use?

You know, I'm looking at the one of the attributes here, which is the praying which has like someone on their knees with their hands praying. And then they, they all look very distinct in terms of colors. And then the amount of like glitch that's applied to them. Some of them are just like you can't even see the character because it's just second chaos, which is, which is cool as well. Did you how much of this process was a manual editing? Versus you just wrote an algorithm and said go for it and let's see what the outputs look

like. Well, it's randomize not. Bye.

Me, but by the transaction. So the see that is generated when you meant that ghost is what is what randomizes these parameters. So from everything, from the collars to how glitched it will be. And if you look at the structure of an fbx file, it has values for the vertices of the other 3D object, but it also has

as values for D animation and like the skeleton of the Arabic object. So that a lot of interesting things you can play with and depending on whether it looks more, like, for example, some ghost, look, more like geometrical shapes. It's generally, because the polygons have been messed with, and those that have weird limbs hanging down is but it's probably because

Had their skeleton values played with. And that's the choice. That's the reason for the choice of fbx files. Because they there's all these possibilities. You can break the file and therefore create these very interesting shapes.

Yeah. It's really cool. So, what you're saying is these fbx files for people. That don't know, that's a Autodesk format, right? Is that right?

Yeah. It's basically 3D file.

I'll so let 3D model but SBX has the property of animation of some. For example, like STL it can be used for 3D printing because it only has the vertices information but an fbx file has a lot more information than the vertices and it also has the animation in the skeleton information. Like it. I will say

I see. So just so I understand the entire process.

From start to finish, and please, correct me if I'm wrong here, you started off by animating, this in a piece of software and then saving it out as an ex fbx file. Is that part, right? So

far? Yes,

and then you take the fbx file, its ASCII readable. So you can write an algorithm on top of that to make modifications and some of those modifications are based on the seed at mint time. So you don't really know what the output is going to be, until they're actually meant

it. Exactly. All of these parameters.

And that you see in the image, not just the animations on the ghost itself. But also, you know, the color of Lee seeing these are all controlled by the seat at that is generated at

mint. Very cool. This is awesome. So you launch this and I'm really curious because we had you put anything out there as an artist on the blockchain prior to this

collection. No. No, I've bought, I bought like a small amount if he's been

A few years ago just to buy some stuff but I had not collect. I don't I'd not deployed anything myself into another because yeah, like I said, I had no money. So it did not deploy not even a contract yet. I did it. Now.

Did you have the connections that were in and people other artists at that point, were kind of encouraging you to go and do this. Like, how does one build up the

The the the courage to go out and say, okay. I'm going to spend because it's not inexpensive to deploy a smart contract. Right? So, you know, were you worried when you put this out there that it wasn't going to

sell. So I didn't know anyone in this space except for one person who is a really good friend. He's the friend who actually let me five etherium so I could have some teeth to deploy my contract and so,

He was a person that would be calling all the time to be asking. What do you think? And I like this would be how do you think and nft like this? And he was basically the only

Guide I had in this face and he was also very supportive every time I would question myself. He would be the one to say, look, you have animate year sitting, he would say, with these words, you're sitting on a pile of gold, you have an amazing project and if you don't deploy it, you're gonna regret it because I did not think it would sell out because I did not have any marketing. I was just along doing everything except, except for

So but yeah, it worked out he was hurting me.

And so you deployed this on. Do you remember what the date was? Like, when this eventually went out to the

public, August 15th. So August 15 and 21.

And in that goes out. Was it something where what was the cost of meant

initially 0.07?

Wow, and then so this this goes out and how quickly did you see people was?

And then there was a slow build until it sold out, or was it something where it kind of just really started to take off right

away yet because most projects, they usually do a little bit of the marketing and teasing before they launch it. Right? And I didn't even think to do it. I thought I didn't think he would meant so faster. So I didn't, I thought open my Twitter presence as I open the launch and it should be okay, but it, it actually.

Actually, this one friend, that lend me five. He Theory, mm. He just decided sending the link or the links for the website. On these telegram groups of discords and word-of-mouth. And next thing I knew it was all meant that by in a few hours that actually me, not anticipating the interest in my project. This was actually a bit harmful in the beginning because I didn't think for example to create a Discord and have

Moderators there. So someone else created a Discord for my project. Anyways, horrible experience for everyone involved. Yeah, we actually lost the first Discord because there was a lot of people spamming and stuff. So yeah, I didn't think they would be thousands of people at once minting and talking on the Discord and

But yeah, you have a round close to 3,000 unique owners, which is awesome with two point, six thousand volume, and eith traded that has to be. Just a was that a shock for you to watch this all unfold. I mean, that's kind of life-changing for an

Yes, it was a shock. Even though, like I said, I had this one friend. I was advised me, and he kept telling me. This is gonna be huge. This is how much money people are making. This is and I would be like, okay, but I'm not please people, I don't have marketing. I don't have anything so I didn't think that would happen. But when it did it was usually overnight Success, is Not really overnight because even with having

Pewter, I've been working on it for 18 months prior to launching it and learning for years before that. So it was but it was kind of overnight and I did I thought eventually I would gain some recognition but I thought it would take some time. But yeah, but that was the beginning and since then.

It has changed a little, I feel. I think the attention in to the project has kind of died down a bit, because people have very short attention span and who's, like, thousands of things coming out every day. So yeah, there's a whole different challenge. Now,

what are your fans? I'm curious like it what you given that you're sitting in this this artist seat and you've had this successful.

Act two questions. Why have they told you that? They collect it? What are they drawn to are? There? Is that the Aesthetics is it? Is it, what are you? What do You Hear? What kind of feedback do you hear from your

collectors? I think a lot of people really like the website. And so, a lot of the collectors are collectors since made because they experience the thrill of them going into their website and not knowing where that came from and connecting your meta masks fall if to it.

Not knowing if it's going to be. All right. So I think a lot of people actually have an emotional attachment to it because of the minting experience, but the people that came later, I think, maybe I'll, so maybe the website is still a big point for them. But I think I've noticed that a lot of people actually resonate with the weirdness of it. It's, it doesn't quite fit into

As a category, it's not generative art per se but it's also not profile pic per se. The community is a bunch of weirdos that it's not like

A lot of crypto talk. So I think a lot of people actually are drawn to it for it being a bit outside of the box. The some people may find it refreshing that there is no road maps or know. What do they call it? Those Shields strategies. So I think some people actually like how weird and different it is without having any things.

Specific about that makes it. It's just the whole Aura of it. I think. Yeah.

And when you go to the side and I notice I lie, you know, go through the different sections and icons you have there. I launched something that says God Observer and then it says, coming soon. What is that?

Yeah, so that is the new collection that is coming soon. And like I said earlier, I have this interest and passion for astronomy and astrophysics. And when I was studying it, I came up with a few creative ways to incorporate it to my art. And so, the challenge that I'm embarking on right now with to create.

With this kind of heart that I had been doing before in a generative way, that communicates with unchain art. So yeah, that's been this new collection. That's been. What I've set up, set myself to do to create art with astronomy and astrophysics, but that is still on changing relative art, and that's what I hope.

Got Observer will provide

and and do you think is that something that you'll launch independently? Or would you go to some of the generative platforms to launch

that no independently on my platform.

So you're writing all your solidity contracts for that. And and, and doing the whole thing. That sounds like a ton of work

yet yet. But I think maybe it's a controversial opinion, but I think in order to call oneself.

A crypto artist. You must know how to actually incorporate that into art because otherwise you're just using the medium as a way to store a link but there is so much that can be done with the medium and on the most basic level, I think is generating a seed and using that, see to randomize the art for you, but there's so much more that can be done. I always say how impressed I am.

These projects that create art, 100% with blockchain, just with the contract, just with the smart contract because that's, in my opinion, way more impressive than what I achieved. I even and so, yeah, I am very passionate about the coning, my own contracts. Because I think that is part of the art, when doing right, when done, right,

Are you a fan of artists like death beef and Divergence and folks that go really? Yes. Yeah, you had

imagined. I'm a big fan of. I always talk about how brought chain inspired me. I were recently open, you know kind of obsessed with the meth castles as well. Some

Yeah, I I find that. That is true. Crypto art. Everything else is just storing art on on a smart country.

I can see how that that you'd be drawn to those types of projects. If you're kind of more of a purist in that sense, you know,

yet. But that's obviously my opinion doesn't mean that there isn't fantastic art, but I wouldn't call it crypto art.

I would call it. I don't know, Vector art or something else art, but not crypto heart. Crypto art. Truly incorporates this technology to generate the art.

And then, when do you think we'll be launching got

observer in February? Oh, wow soon. Yeah, but sometime around mid February, that's the what I am for.

Very cool. And is there any set number of pieces? I know you don't want to go into a lot of details about what it is. Exactly. But is, do you have any sense of how many people would be able to collect

this? Yeah. I I think I'm not gonna make such a big soup.

High as seven thousand something. I think from what I've been observing a generative collections. Generally have a smaller Supply from 1000 to 2000 and the sky, could be what I'm aiming for, but I also want to make it. I want to find some weighty number to it. So I'm not gonna make 333 or something. I don't know. I'm gonna try to find something interesting for it.

But it's not decided yet. Very cool.

So I'd love to talk a bit about, just kind of where you see this going, what it, what for you, you know, you're in the very first early, you know, kind of phases of your career at least on this type of crypto are you know, and that you launched Heaven computer that sold out did well you've got this next project coming, you know, is it is it too hard for you to look in the future and see you know, where you want to be as an artist and the in the coming months and years like what do you think about what you'd like to?

Personally, explore. What are you most excited

about? I think it really depends on how the next collection goes. Because as much as I love creating generative art collections. I also love taking on new challenges and a lot of doors have opened for me already. And so I don't know, maybe a different door will open after that and I'm very open to new things and I would love to continue working.

Hang on having computer if nothing more interesting comes along, but I think I don't know. I wouldn't mind collaborating or releasing art on a different platform or. Yeah, there's so much. I'm, I've been learning about recently that I'm very interested. Who knows? Maybe the right partnership will happen, and that I don't have a solid plan yet.

What when you think of other platforms are there ones that are kind of? You're curious about at this

point, nothing specific but you know, new artist and you things come up that are everyday and so maybe. Yeah, I don't know exactly.

Are there other artists out there. I typically ask this question of all the artists interview, but there are other artists out there. We talked about a couple of them, you know, you

Option one, I mentioned Divergence. He said that was one that, you know, you really loved or are there other ones that you look at and you're just technically wowed by or people that inspire

Yeah, so there's also this this project called Spectra art. I've been looking into their project a lot because the latest one called chromeless here's is actually generated from also astronomical data that use data from multiple different Stars. So I think it's 707 stars that they collected and yeah, I thought that was really cool because I

And I also trying to do something with astronomical data and I approached the artist and his name is Ike and he was so helpful in sharing some of his resources and I was already a fan of Spectre art before that because all of their projects have something really impressive technologically speaking. And then after he personally connecting with the artist, I was officially

That's awesome. Ought to check that. I hadn't heard of that yet. Yeah. Is there anything else you want to mention about the existing projects, or anything like that? Or anything else? You want to give away about the upcoming project? Are you still keeping that pretty much Under

Wraps? Yeah. So so far, having computers just is has has consists of one collection that came out, that was got goes software and then from that collections, people were gifted A CD-ROM.

CD-ROM, is that how you call it? Yeah, I mean, yeah, they like as an airdrop because I thought it fitted the theme and so I do Quentin to continue playing around with the early 2000s. Late 90s technology aspect in and so the new collection will definitely incorporate that and there will be also airdrops that up with more fun stuff to come.

So yeah, I there's a lot of interesting cool stuff to look forward to. So yeah, State it's

fantastic. So the that's that's reason enough for me. I haven't picked up one of your pieces yet. But the the price is, as of this podcast at point 0, we are Point 117 as a floor insanely well priced. And and knowing that you're kind of taking care of those older collectors and doing our drops and stuff like that. Sounds like a fun.

I'm not to pick one out that I like the praying ones. For some reason. I think those are my favorites out of the different. Those are those are really fun and some of the crazy metallic kind of bodies that you've done on some of these are beautiful as well. Very cool stuff, you know, you had mentioned to me that you want to get out there more because it seems like you're, it seems like marketing doesn't feel even a kind of very natural to you to go out and Market. Is that, is that fair to say?

Yes, well, as much as I have a wide variety of interests Market,

It's not really one of them resin. So something that I've been struggling with because like I said initially there was this great amount of interest in the project mostly motivated by the website, being the novelty that it was. But I realized that that is hard to sustain unless you're putting yourself out there, you doing, giveaways Partnerships, collaborations, Twitter spaces, and I'm a very shy person.

Speaking is not something that comes naturally to me. But yeah, I am trying to, and I do enjoy talking about these things. I could talk about glitch art and my plans for the future and art that I still want to make and tools that I've learned. I could talk about all of that 48 hours. And so, if, if I'm given the chance more to actually talk about these things that I'm passionate about, I will definitely take that chance because I would rather do that. Then in,

Age in most traditional marketing strategies that are happening now in NF T's, yeah? Yet.

It sounds like you and I are aligned on that front and that I think of a lot of those short-term, kind of, you know, contest e, driven tactics. They are great at bringing in an audience and it but I don't know that it's necessarily the right type of audience, you know, the, it'll be people that come in that are there for the quick Flip or whatever it is, and then,

They leave as quickly as they came, you know, does that seem to ring true to you as

well? Yeah, absolutely. And I kind of learned this the hard way, not the hard way because in the end, it's it's good to have.