The art world like I think you would say I'm a member of the art World Community. Like people know me. I've been around a while. I support the Museum's. I do my own shows. I support artists. I try to do the right thing, but the nft world has to broadcast to an audience and that's kind of the main difference is that, you know, you're on Discord, you're tweeting. You're doing podcast. You're in the media.
You are reaching an audience and artwork can just stay in one person's house for a decade. And never be seen locked away.
In that way, the nft world is better.
That was Adam Lindemann investor writer art collector and art dealer. Adam founded the gallery. Venus over Manhattan in New York as an art collector and gallerist. Adam is known for setting multiple World Records, both at auction and privately including records for Jeff Koons and basket his personal collection.
Shin includes Pieces by Blue Chip artist Richard Prince Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons and Andy Warhol to name a few. As you can likely tell by now. Adam is just an absolute legend in the traditional art world, but something new has caught his attention and FTS and specifically cromie squiggles, which are The Genesis Project zero drop on our blocks by our blocks founder, snow fro. He's also holding a squiggle exhibition, February 12th. Through the 26th in New York City at his Gallery. So, if around definitely go check that out. Now, I absolutely love this.
This interview largely because Adam is a wealth of knowledge and pulls from a deep traditional art world that. I know we can all learn something from now, full disclosure. I am an absolute chroma Squad will Fanboy. If you follow me on Twitter, you probably already know that by now. I owned them personally. We own them. A true ventures. In fact, they were our first nft purchases that we hold that the fund and we also hold them at Flamingo, Dow where I'm a member. Now, for me. I collect them because they're simple, but they're also insanely complex. If you dive into all the hidden attributes, they're beautiful. And I
Leave. They're going to be historically significant as time goes on and our blocks is known as the platform that brought generative art to the blockchain. This was a really fun show. I hope you enjoy Adam. Thank you so much for being on the
show. Thanks so much. Kevin happy to be here.
I'm really thrilled to have you on because most of my guests, I would say these days, our web three native all in, in FTS all the time, but you have a very fascinating and long history in the more.
Of traditional art World, maybe you could just bring the listeners up to speed on what you've been up to and that
world. Well, I'll tell you my tired old story. But you know, when I was 21, I got out of college and my brother introduced me to a young woman. We were together for over two years and we thought we were going to get married, but she was, Andy warhol's, best friend. And so in 1984, I ran around what's Cornelia guests and, and we were with war.
Old every night. I mean, so I literally was able to as a 22 year old made everyone. From basquiat's, I went to the Michael Jackson concert at Madison Square Garden. I was at halston's house for dinner with Victor Hugo and Steve rubell and Liza Minnelli to the whole sort of War will seen the factory. And what was then 1984. So this is near the end of his life. This is not war will in the 60s. Okay, because I was a 22 year old kid, but it opened my eyes and I met Keith Haring.
Spent time with basquiat's, spend time with Andi, of course, so I knew fairly Weld and all the people around him, like Fred use and the whole sea and years later when I was working in business. I thought I have some money now. I'm going to go to the Warhol foundation and by works from the foundation with my friend baby Jane Holzer who was one of the factory girls in the 60s. So I started buying Jackie is for sixty seventy thousand dollars from 1964. So I was very lucky and of course.
Everything. Appreciate it. So I thought I was smart but I was mostly lucky or smart, or whatever. And then years later. I fell in love with Contemporary Art and with my art dealer, and so she said, you're just collecting dead people. You Gotta Buy living people. And so, she was into the Contemporary Art. See so I fell in love with work by Takashi. Murakami, I once traveled to Paris and bought the whole show back in. WoW, 2000. And then I became a fan of Jeff Koons and I bought the
early celebration pieces when they were a single digit million dollars, like there was a million, a million and a half dollars, which was so much money, but you didn't have to pay for years. And then I became a fan of Damien Hirst, and was there early on. And then as I progress, Force, Fisher and many other artists and along the way. I tried to marry art and Technology about 4 years ago in Miami in a conference and I really didn't understand what the nft is would become. But I
I thought that art would make a good cryptocurrency and I studied it and eventually started buying a couple of punks of got a few me bits and I've studied entities, along the way. So I'm not the whale that you are and no great expert. But I'm certainly someone who learns about the world of tech in the world of entities every day. I find it fascinating.
Yeah. That is. Wow. What a fantastic quick. Awesome summary. That was so many questions there. I'm curious. Is there anything?
Thing that when you're thinking about cryptocurrency, it is an in ft's in general. I'm sure you've been on, you know, open? See kind of browsing what's being produced today and just anyone that is armed with Photoshop can produce an N of T. And that is both great in that. It is really allowing artists, up, and coming artist to have a platform to publish into. It's bad in that there's no really way to cut through a lot of the garbage and really find some of the best kind of cream. That's
Hopefully floating to the top. Like, how do you what lens do you look through to evaluate artist? What have you used previously that you think you can apply to in FTS
today?
That's so funny that you would ask that question because I think about that all the time and I want to ask someone like yourself. What should I be looking for? But initially, I saw in the punks kind of like that Space Invaders look and that, that kind of early pain and all those early games. And I thought it was a very important project because it was so successful and I was fascinated by the way, they just gave them away and they went from
02 being highly collected and then when like flamingos Dow bought all those punks and that change the game and everything that happened. But what I found fascinating is when the board Apes when they sort of started coming up and I had aesthetic choices in terms of, what did I prefer and when the floor of the board Apes, exceeded the floor of the crypto punks, I find that. So, I used to write books on Art collecting and I wrote two books for tashjian the best.
Selling book on Contemporary Art, collecting a wrote a book on design. I wrote for the New York Observer for four years. So, I was assertive, amateur journalist, but still someone who was very passionate and interested. And to me if I were to write an article today about and if T's, I would be thinking about, what does it mean when the floor of the board eight surpasses the punks because this this is round about going to your question. But so, what is quality at Art and how does one collect like bossk?
Is 1982. It was always about 82. He dies in 87 but 88 rather. But it was always about 82 and then people say he lost it. He did too many drugs. He had too many problems but his critical years, 82, not 81 and many artists have that golden moment when it's like the ultimate Moment, Like, Warhol in the 60s was always the thing, you know, you've got Maryland's, you've
Got Jackie's, you've got Elvis. You've got the car crashes. You've got the whole frigging all, the disaster series. And so, I was talking to Joe Lubin. I was very fortunate. I had a little mixer in Miami, and I got to chat with Joe Lubin. And I set it quickly as like, you know, I feel that I'm at the beginning of a new art world, and this world of N ftes and where technology meets art, is the beginning of a whole new generation of art collectors and these original projects.
Really broke through will become part of a new art history, which I'm actually fortunate to watch being written today. What do you think? And he's like, of course, of course. And I thought great. Well, that's good to hear from him. But when I saw board Apes more expensive than the punks. My question was, are we actually in a world now where the capital flows so quickly and so easily? Remember that?
When you buy a painting from me, or from any water in my collection, I say, I take the painting physically, then it has to go in a crate. Then it has to be ensured, then it's condition check before it's shipped. Then it goes to my storage. As the ones that are not in my house, goes to my storage, where the storage will check it confirm that the condition is Right, close up the box and put it in storage. So a lot of handling and some manipulation had to
Happen, not as much as owning a race car or a Ferrari or this or that, but still even though you put it away. It had to be checked in the nft Whirl like none of that happens. And it's very quick and it's easy. And I can send my nft to my friend and Singapore and they can send it someone to Bangkok and suddenly can end up in LA.
So I just wonder, is this money just going to keep flowing in waves to the new thing and the new thing? And the new thing or are these historic projects ever, going to beat reconsider the way original art like Picasso like Dolly from the 30s, like if you look at Salvador Dali, right? Everybody knows Dolly, but do you know that there's one price for Dolly? Before the Civil War in Spain, the Spanish Civil War and there's a different price for Dolly after the Spanish Civil.
War. Because when dolly was living in Spain, in the 1930s, he was A persecuted artist and he was one of the people, one of the great creators who had to flee when Franco's troops took over. But Dolly, after the Civil War is considered the commercial Dolly, the dolly who just had to make money and he made stuff in Paris. He made stuff all over the world. My point being that, there's a golden period. So I don't know. Is there a golden period in entities or which is watching it happen are the board Apes?
Forever or is this board? A black Club going to be surpassed by the alien Yacht Club of the alien. I don't know Polo Club or whatever it is. I don't know.
Yeah, it's a good question. I think about this quite a bit in. I landed exactly. When you first started mentioning in of t's in the historic significance of some of these earlier projects. There's no doubt in my mind that will look back and say, wow, look at the revolution that the crypto Punk's kicked off, right?
And I believe that they will always have that place in our history, and I would say the same for auto, glyphs, on the generative side, the same for Crombie squiggles, on the generative side. I feel that there is a handful of these projects that will stand the test of time and and just be insanely valuable. Now that said in the short term, you're right because this is a 24/7 365 liquid Market funds, can move and flow very quickly, too.
The hot thing, right? But I you know, when I think about what board Apes has done, its, I can't wrap my head around it because it is, it's more than just a graphic. It is a movement and culture which I'm curious on the traditional art side. I think of them more like almost like a movie franchise. They're almost like a Star Wars at this point where you're you're holding a piece of this really important
IP.
Did was there any parallels there from the traditional art side that we can look back on our we and just completely Uncharted
Territory?
Well, I mean, that's it. That's another big huge question right now, but you know in my gallery and with the artists that I represent like Peter Saul and others, the artist always keeps the IP so you can buy the painting but you own the painting but you don't own the image. That means you can't take that painting and put it on like I used to say ashtrays or t-shirts or coffee cups or and so I thought what's the big deal on and you know, I don't want to put my punka, I put my punk.
Maybe on like Twitter profile, but I'm not going to put it like, I'm not going to make Punk coffee cups. And for some reason those larvae Labs guys didn't want to give the IP now in retrospect, the fact that the board Apes have the IP is considered so valuable but like I don't get it. What's so valuable about, there's 10,000 of them. They all look more or less the same and 10,000 people like IP is only valuable when one person owns Guernica.
You know, Guernica Picasso's, most famous painting, or Andy warhol's, Marilyn, or any morals Elvis or or, you know, banksy's IP, which we could talk about. What that particle project, that's sold it into 15,000 pieces or the IP of any work of art. Any physical work of art is owned by the artist and you can only get it by licensing. It. Now, the board Apes, they gave it to the person who bought it clearly. The market says right now, that was a smart move. But like, what's that person supposed to?
With it, like if you gave me 10 board apes and you said, Adam lucky you you own the IP am like what am I going to do with it? But funny enough. I spoke to a guy yesterday who's going to use his board 8 and make it the logo for his bar that he wants to open.
Right? I mean, that's where it gets you. There's these new and unexpected leveraging of individual IP. Because if you think about it, the fact that you gave the licensing and the rights to that image to these individuals, they can do.
Ooh, things like, you know what, they're it's not crazy to imagine a professional sports team with a board Apes logo on it because they can if they own that ape they can create a sports team around that. So they then become marketing channels for the project for their specific ape obviously but also for the project as a whole which is
interesting and then the Apes keep dropping you something. So like right Punk drop the Ami bit so that was cool and I could have minted more and that was exciting.
But the Apes have dropped the dog and the serum and of this, and of that, I guess what they're saying is, they're going to keep dropping, but I wonder Kevin if this is also like a bull market phenomenon, like all this stuff works when everybody is buying and it but the suddenly, if it cools off at any time, I don't know like what about the next drop? Like, what happens when something drops and nobody
wants it? No, you're right. And I this is why I tend to avoid a lot of these projects that are just clones or cop.
A copycats or they just are using the same kind of tired mechanics over and over again. Where I'll make an exception is if an artist that is well known as coming to the table for the first time and kind of bridging and moving over to the nft world and they're doing something like that. I'm like, okay. I want to own their first empty project because I don't really care what it is, but I know that they are bringing audience with them, but I agree with you a hundred percent. I think of it, you know, the one parallel that we do have although it.
It's not in the art world, but it's in the cryptocurrency world. And that is whenever there's a downturn in the market. It tends to be that a lot of the lesser-known projects of the Clones of the copycats get hurt the most. And then there's a flight to some of the Bitcoins in the, ethereum is like the blue chips, right? Because people wallet e, 100%. There's a flight to Quality. So I have to imagine it some point. And I can't say, Bordeaux Apes is a massive phenomenon at this point. So it would be wrong for me to say that there's
Going to be a flight from board, a bus, back to crypto Punk's, but I can tell you that, I don't think crypto Punk's has seen their best days. I truly believe that there's going to be more people, excited about that origin project than that origin story around them being the first one to more or less defined the standard, The Arc 721 standard that all in ft's are based on. So, you know, I am a, I'm very bullish long-term on crypto punks. And and some of these these first, these digital first. Who was the first?
Do it, you know, so that that's that's kind of the lens that I use.
Yeah. Well, that's the way I was thinking about it. But sometimes I wonder if I'm like thinking using my art collectors hat in the nft world and then making a mistake. I don't think so. And really the punks have done relatively very well. I mean, I'm not complaining but when the board Apes past them, I kind of thought is this a disturbing sign that needs to be further. Analyzed? I mean, I think all these
File picture projects, that I don't even look at them. I hate copycats, right? And I love you want to see any of that stuff I've seen and I did the same. I'm consistent with your thinking like when Tom Sachs did the Rockets this friend of mine said, oh, he did these Rockets. I looked into it, and then he sold rocket in Miami. So, I'm at Art Basel at the convention center. My Galleries, exhibiting at Art Basel and everyone's walking around.
On. And I'm on my computer bidding on Open Sea to buy a rocket, and I was so excited. I bought the rocket and then I texted the guys who were shooting the rocket. I said, Tom, I'm coming over now. Just wait for me. It's like it's getting dark. Hurry. And I got to see the rocket launched and that was a special experience for me. And I value that. And I'm a fan of Tom Crossing from the traditional art world into the world of entities and creating a project that I think, as one.
In the end of T, world one foot in the real world. One foot in the community world. Yes. However, I wonder and, you know this better than I do. I wonder if his position as a traditional artist hurts him because I've heard people sake will only buy crypto artist for NF. Teas, from crypto artists because we're not sure how long they'll be committed to this.
I mean, I think that cuts both ways like there's, there's some crypto artist that put out these elaborate Road.
Apps that I look at and I and I think about the engineering involved to pull off what they say they're going to do for their project, right? Because these days, it's not enough just to press a piece of artwork into the blockchain. You have to have a road map. Right? And I look at some of this stuff and I think gosh, like they don't understand how much of a heavy lift. It is to build out a meta verse to create a virtual world for their characters to run around in and and how long it takes to get those things off the ground like that. Those are
Our multi your efforts. And so I worry that a lot of people won't be able to deliver on those types of promises. So when I see someone like a Tom Sachs come in and say I'm going to do something. I'm a traditional artist. I'm coming to n FTS. I'm doing something fun and unique with burn mechanics and Assemblies of rockets. All done the digital space. I proved that on day one that that can be that's possible and I have a physical component to it as well. That's fun. That's fun in that. That's Innovation and I love that. So
I'm a little bit scared of anonymous artists that may or may not disappear. We've already seen these things. They call them like rug poles or someone will promise a lot and then all of a sudden just run away with the cash. So I yeah, I it's a dangerous world, but it's really exciting if that makes
sense. Yeah. It's interesting. Especially when we don't know what the future will bring. I have an artist that I've collected that, I like quote Lucien Smith, and he just launched a
As a project of seeds, so there are 10,000 seeds. And I would say, unfortunately, it's too much of a, you know, profile picture type. Once again, it's the 10,000. But the actual seed packets are quite beautiful and they're based on seed packets that he had screened in colors, maybe, eight, nine years ago. So it's really part of his work and they're beautiful, but I said to him. Okay. Now you sell these seats, you have to promise US that you're going to plant them.
Where's the land that you're building in the metaverse? Where's the garden? Where's the garden? Maybe in Upstate New York, where you live or where? What are we getting access to this? Gardener? We're getting some special projects. I'm special, invitation some special Club, some special Lucien Smith experience that we get by owning these seats because if not, I don't think this is going to work.
Isn't it funny? How these projects have to take on the depth and complexity to them to be successful is it's getting pretty insane. Like now the board of talking about launching their own token, like their own governance, token, / currency type thing. And like that's a whole nother can of
worms.
Yeah, well, what will the future of these projects where they going? You're closer to that future than I am. What where will this be in three years? Two years.
Well, I think we're, you know, we're in the very early Innings of all this stuff. So we're in a Land of extreme experimentation, which I love, I think. Unfortunately, a lot of that stuff, goes to 0 and a lot of its garbage, but I do like that people are trying crazy.
Ideas, I heard about another project recently that is coming out soon. We're just like with cryptocurrency where you can lock up your cryptocurrency and earn interest on it. There is this idea of staking artwork where you take an artwork and you lock it up and you guarantee that, you know, you doesn't trade hands. It's being held and then the art of olives and change is and gets better or or rarer ads longer. You've kept it locked up in your wallet. So there's an incentive to kind of keep it held by one individual.
Has selling and flipping which some of those things. They're just they're they're cool and they're fun novel ideas.
I think they can be
pulled off once or twice and then they get tired. So it's like this race to discover new mechanics that people try. Whether it be burned mechanics or morphing or combina combining in ft's in the unique things. Like I've seen so many different things and especially with a i gosh. I've seen some
Some more recent ones where they're training up in ft's to like have brains and have their own AI associated with them, which is just nuts. But I love it. We're the next decade is just going to be a lot of throwing kind of, you know, spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks? And and there's something beautiful about that
too. Yeah. Well, what's also interesting is when I have an art conversation, I normally have it with an artist, or with an art critic or with a
Sir, like myself or a museum director curator, in this case. I'm having an art conversation with a venture capitalist. So, that is completely Innovative and very interesting to me because never has the world of Commerce and the world of art Blended seamlessly before. There's always an awkward relationship between Museum. People don't talk about money at art collectors, don't like to say what they paid will hear. Everyone knows what you paid and to go a blue bit backwards to what we were saying.
Is that you say what you asked me? What do I like and what do I see through my art collecting eyes?
And when I first discovered art blocks, I was like, wow, this is so interesting. Does this look like twombly? Does this look like Brice Marden? Does this look like, you know, who are the artist? Who did that? This generative art looks like? And I was very interested in that because everyone was telling me Krypto - Krypto - you got to be Krypto - well, I don't know if that's an absolute rule but certain but like peoples, definitely crypto.
And he's very figurative, but what I like and and and very interesting, but what I loved about the generative work is its computer made art for people on computers. So there was a purity to it. And when I looked at all the projects, my favorite one was the first one, the crummy squiggles because it required the shortest leap of faith. For me. I didn't have to like, go too far to decide if I liked it or not. It was very simple. It was almost like
Has n mu like when the Zen master claps, his hands are. So it's just boom. And it's like, yes, I got it and it doesn't need to be more than that. And so I was very convinced by the Chrome squiggles. And and so I started to buy a few on Open Sea. I'd missed the mend. I missed the whole thing, but I still participated because I really believe that this was an important historic moment and let the Simplicity of those works. And when I talk to people,
In this world like, Derek, Schloss like yourself. I find that my intuitive senses is resonated by people who are really deep in this. And so, I'm a big believer in the Chrome. We squiggles. I'm a big believer of snow fro and an Eric Calderone was such an interesting and a great spokesman for this field. So that classic collector part of me made me feel like, well, you're just can't own enough squiggles like it's just me.
Pure
gosh, you are years. You're like, it's like you're speaking from my brain. Like I feel the exact same way. I think about that. It's project zero. It's on a platform that defined a new genre of art on the blockchain and I say this B, and this is what led me to invest in because we love their last round of financing over true Ventures. And then also at the fund levels of venture capitalists. I have deployed our LPS money into buying and holding.
Crummy squiggles at the fund level. So we've actually gone out. I've gone out and purchased Crombie squiggles that we hold for our LPS, which is a first, it's amazing Venture capitalists at the fun, level are now buying in ftes in artwork. And yeah, that was the first one that I went to after because I see them as being one. I love the price point. I still think they have Venture style returns in terms of upside left to, to happen. I mean, they're relatively inexpensive when you look at things like,
Like other projects that are in the 10,000 space that you know, things like board, apes and others. And and they just they just are so simple. And so pure and once you get kind of that bug and you realize how how just I can see, I can see them on the wall in my house. When I get a digital frame. I can see them just being so iconic for how classic and simple that they are. Like, they represent so much in this space, so
Obviously, I say that with a heavy bias given all of our backgrounds in our Holdings. We both say that it you know, but that's that's my thinking precisely and you got to hang out with Eric and are now helping him with an upcoming shows that correct.
Well, when I met him I thought how can I get to engage this man in conversation and really do the Deep dive because I was curious and I'm very curious about the nft world every day.
I try to learn something and speak to someone. Who will I feel that? We're always learning more. I don't know if you feel that way, but I guess there's always something new every day. But with Eric what I said to him is, have you ever done an art exhibition? Shall we? Just do a traditional gallery show and I just asked him to do it because I thought it would be interesting to just take the next step and say, how do we put digital work?
In a real Gallery in a traditional gallery and say this is our, we need to think about it. And we need to think about where the Zeitgeist is and we need to include this audience and these creators into our world and not put up barriers and exclusive definitions of what is and what isn't which is not so interesting. And I didn't really think about it properly like sometimes I should when it in the sense that there is.
Um, push back, you know, there is some pushback and I don't want to make too much of it. But there are people who say, you know, board apes are not art and you know, this is not art and that's not art and I don't always disagree with them. Sometimes something could be a collectible or profile picture, not everything that's in nft, is Art, but I feel that the Chrome is squiggle is a work of art, particularly since. It's completely abstract, it completely is.
Color. And it's such a simple gesture. It's like an artist's brush stroke. And so I thought it'd be interesting to do a show and we're doing it on February. 12th here in New York City in my townhouse Gallery, in a very old-world Ambiance, and and I think it'll be super interesting. And fortunately, Eric is up for it. He's interested in this dialogue between the art world and the world of
And ftes, which, let's see. What happens. The New Yorker. Did you read the New Yorker article the other week about them?
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. You know, I think one of the things I love about Eric is that if you, when you do, sit down with them and you get to meet him and I've met a whole cast of characters in this in empty space. And, you know, I was an FTM. I see, I was bouncing around different parties and unfortunately, a lot of the emphasis at times can be, of course, the financial gain.
People make from from playing in this world. And Eric is the absolute opposite of that. Like the talk about just the Purity in in what he represents and how he really does care so much about the community and about the artist about giving back and the amount of money that he's donated to Charities. It's just, it's unbelievable. It's, there's something about him. That is just so endearing and I'm sure you probably got that sense from him as
well.
Yeah, it's a beautiful project and he's a beautiful Ambassador for it, really is expressing the good in it. And the way he is prepared to give squiggles and and give donation. And I think the the what he's done at Marfa is so interesting because he's from Texas himself and Martha is is sort of like mythical home base of Donald Judd and the judge foundation. And I do think that they work on Art blocks has a
Section a dialogue with minimalism with traditional minimalism of the 70s into the 80s with the Chamberlain's with The Judds with that whole thing soap. Why not? And the idea that anyone would be against the future or really? What is the present is is it's just, you know, the art world. I think it's good to push the envelope and I think he's pushing it in the right place and, you know, the art World in general, can be the traditional art world can be very conservative.
Mmm, and I attribute that to the fact that you know, art is in Latin. They say de gustibus at caloris. No dispute on the mess, which means no one can argue about taste and color. We each have our own but in art we have to hang something in a museum or in a gallery and say this is good and make people believe. So anything that challenges the status quo meets with some pretty conservative pushback. And I think part of this is, is
Is some pushback and I think over time this will be will resolve itself. I don't exactly know how but to me the squiggles art, but they're also an economy. They're also a part of Technology. They're also on a computer screen. I'm not someone who immediately needs to print their nft and hang it on the wall. However, I love it the way it moves on the computer.
Yeah, I think we'll have digital displays. It will eventually catch up to all of this and make it.
Just feel so natural and living in our environments. I'm curious. Do you feel that in your history in knowing and meeting all these artists? And it's feels like in Ft, is, in some sense. They've caused such a stir and created so much commotion and dialogue isn't that by definition? The, what some of the are like, the great artists of the past have done. They've always been so bold and unique and interesting that it always creates some type of
I log out. It doesn't that is there a similarities there?
Mmm.
I think that there are, you know, there's different types of art. They're artists like Wayne Tebow who painted cakes? Who just died last month in San Francisco? In a fairly quiet, man. Or Brice Marden, who's somewhat reclusive. The ultimate recluses, Jasper Johns, who's the subject of a big retrospective here in New York City right now? He's like in his early 90s and he's this amazing very soft-spoken reclusive artist who so highly respected. And then
Have other artists like Damien hirst's or like Warhol, and his time, who was at nightclubs every night with celebrities and doing making robots of himself and creating Salem's that were groundbreaking, that's a different style. So I think the art world has a little bit of everything. It's to me the nft world that we're talking about is also a little closer to the world of music.
In the sense that to be a great musician, you need to broadcast to a large audience and create a community around you. I mean the success of like the Grateful Dead. I mean, it was about the community following mall around the country point and half the time, the music got a little sloppy, if it wasn't the night but it didn't matter because it was about the community and we don't really have that in the art world and the, and there's another difference that that needs to be.
Pondered and I'm sorry, I'm not getting you conclusions. I'm just giving you thought, thought, Bubbles. And I'm trying to balance them. But when an artist creates a work of art, it's all about unique. It's all about the one of one. I made this painting. Only one person can own it. Whether it's a museum in a public institution or private. It has to be one.
The big nft projects have to be multiples and have to create communities that mean, then there's Dow's around them, the squiggle Dow and please board H, projects, and Flamingo, Dow and all these different funds of NF T's and all this bubbling of different structure Financial engineering and structures and communities as well around these projects, you know, the art world. Like I think you would say, I'm a member of
Artwork Community, like people know me. I've been around a while. I support the Museum's. I do my own shows. I support artists. I try to do the right thing, but the nft world has to broadcast to an audience and that's kind of the main difference. Is that, you know, you're on Discord, you're tweeting, you're doing podcast, you're in the media. You are reaching an audience, an artwork can just stay in one person's house.
For decade and never be seen locked away.
In that way, the nft world is better.
Yeah, that's fascinating. I think that's very insightful to pull up that kind of analog with or the analogy with, with a musician and how, how that functions because it feels like that is the majority of products or projects that we see out there today. Although, we do see I think Super, where is probably the best channel for those. Kind of one of one, very beautiful. They can stand on their own artworks that they seem to have done a good job at attracting, are those types of artists to that platform.
I'm like when you think of xcopy or some of the other great one of one artists? Yes, sometimes they do have their own little side pfp project, but they're the value their most valuable pieces. Are these very Standalone, one of ones. But you're right. They're not locked up and kept away from the public. They're they're all over the place there. They've been right clicked and saved as many
times and even when people just sold The Walking Man, recently. He did it at Chrissy's whereas on view publicly. So,
I think the nft needs that sort of public thing. Yeah. I also have noted that from that people in the world of technology and you tell me if this is true because I want to say like yourself, but I don't know if you stand for this, but when I've spoken to people who have created, you know, big Tech platforms, they're always they're much more interested in, how many people they reach then whether or not they own.
Special car or fancy yacht or or an expensive painting. They're much less interested in luxury. That's about showing their wealth as opposed to the wealth of like, business that reaches millions of people.
It really depends on of on a company by company basis, but I definitely it's more of a jeans and t-shirt culture than it is, you know, fancy things, although that can
can creep in at times. But yeah, it's I think in FTS are a great example, of a lot of the technologists that I know they will collect, and that have their high-net-worth technologists. They will collect in FTS and it's less about the recognizable names. At this point, is much as it is having something that they can technically respect. So they'll look and say this engineer did this a really
Seeing piece, I collected F because there's an engineering feat here that I respect and that's the reason I want to hold it and it's more about that than it is necessarily flaunting, the the kind of rarest piece of traditional
art.
And do you feel that the people from the world of the, there's a lot of wealth than create a crypto, right? I mean, it's basically there's some people who have like Monopoly money level of wealth that has been created and also, a lot of wealth has been created in the nft world. Do you think that these people will come collect art in my gallery? And the gallery of others? Or is it like what where's the, where's the wall between east and west or whatever?
The Cold War, the Cold War
wall.
This is a tough question to answer. I believe that they will absolutely come to your gallery and by crummy squiggles that you have up on the
wall. Yeah, it's funny. I showed some squiggles in the Art Basel Miami. And I was very proud and I put them there. I didn't really care to make money. I didn't need to sell them. I sold some Peter Souls works. That were amazing, and then artists from West Africa, Cornelius, and or and a young painter.
And a better Roi anyway, I didn't need to sell them but I wanted to engage people in conversation. I wanted to get people to talk about this and say, hey Adam, why are you showing this? Why are you putting this in your gallery? And I think we have to row this boat a while. I think we have a ways to go but I think it's you're right. I mean, the art world has always chafed art world. Has always tried to push out Innovation and
You know, like I remember when Banks, he did that show in l.a. A couple years ago, and he didn't have a gallery, didn't have anything. You just bought some warehouse and he put it up. There are a lot of celebrities buying it. Like everyone was like Brad Pitt bought a Banksy and I'm like who cares? Like Brad Pitt son, art collector, would eat a no skiddly, you know Angelina Jolie could have five of them. I wouldn't be that impressed. And now I have to look back and say wow twelve million dollar Banks.
14 million dollar Banks is Banksy succeeded in creating a new audience and he made it doing it a different way and I feel that that will happen again. And again, I think that people did it and I think that there are a lot of artists who will Avail themselves of the nft tech platform and will create new fan bases and new types of art. So I am a believer
Adam. It's very clear to me. I'm really impressed. I've talked to some some folks that are more in the traditional art side that just, you know, kind of won't even have this conversation frankly than just like they don't even want to talk about it after he's and to see you embracing this and the early days. It's just like it's really and even had doing the show. Can we can we touch back on that that chromia squiggle shoulder? You're going to do with Eric if can people come to this or is an invite only thing, and
Do you plan on doing there? So it's 120 East 65th. Venus over Manhattan. It's going to be open for several weeks. We welcome the public, anybody could walk it. So, that's a nice thing. And one of the things that I wanted to do was really get into the different types of squiggles. I think that it's little understood people. Just look at it. They like it, or they discount it. They're like, that's art forget it or they get, you know, they look at it and they're like not for me or they don't.
Stand it. I think that there was Real Genius in the way. It was designed between the 60% standards to forty percent non standards and all the variations that ribbed in the non ribbed and the Hyperbole and the Rarity. I think it does. It's an interesting way to think about it. It's an interesting way to analyze it and no one. This is I don't need to reveal but no one has really asked Eric, the artists like why
You do this like this like what the basis for these decisions, we know that they were successful. We know that it's been a super success, but we don't really like when an artist makes a painting. The first thing, the art critic says, is like, what do you thinking, like Andy Warhol, why did you put Maryland's, picture of a newspaper? Why didn't you paint it yourself? That was the whole idea is that he was going to remove the artist from the art-making process and make it in a factory by screening it, so he's going to change the nature.
ER of the relationship between art and contemporary culture. And in the same way. I'm going to try to show answers with. I don't yet have about how Eric made these decisions and what is the basis for these decisions? Because like you said, there been so many failed projects and these super successful, hyper successful, projects, require some analysis and some thought process. And I think the nft world hasn't really caught up with
Yeah, of like let's talk about why it's like that and had it been another way and head up in a different color. Right? And why are the fuzzies less valuable or why is this more? I don't know. I think all these aesthetic decisions like why does the audience respond to certain type?
Yeah, absolutely. That's going to be a fun conversation. Are you going to record
that? Yeah, we're going to report that on Friday before the show. So that's don't know what he's going to say. He might be you know, some artists will tell you I don't talk about my work. My work speaks for itself.
Are you actually selling the ones that you have on display? And you know, he has some minced of yet to be used. What are your thoughts there?
So we're going to try to offer a few minutes and
Perhaps sell a few but this will sound perhaps unusual but I didn't really do the show to Salve to make money. I mean, maybe you know, I just feel like something good will will come and he's very generous and he'll take care of his fans and it'll all be for the good. I think that the squiggles need a show like this. And so that was my main motivator.
Not how many I can sell or or, or something like that, but a few will trade hands. And what I'm really hoping to do. Kevin is get people that I know from my, my art world my collector community and say I want you to have this, I want you to buy your first nft. This is what I recommend you, you keep and I want you to keep this hold this and think about this and this will be like your portal into a new world of collecting. I love
that. You're that. What I
What a great friend you are to introduce them to chromey squiggles as the very first purchase because I think that is a very wise investment. What's your prediction 10 years from now? What's the floor on a chrome, a
squiggle? I don't know, you know, you know, better than
I say, I'm going to say a million USD. That's what I'm going to say.
Really? Wow. Well, then we should just put everything in squiggles and give it up.
That's
right. You know, I also say something that might
Not be popular right now. But, but and I could be totally wrong, but it's interesting because the way the hockey stick on the value of crypto and the fact that you couldn't really buy anything with it. Like you can't buy much with ether or Bitcoin or anything like that. I think that the, the, the run-up in value of n ft is, was very steep, obviously, right? I mean, when I say, things are expensive, like, it's 100 and 100.
Ether for a board 8, come on. How many people have 100? Either? Like if you actually had to reach in your pocket, put that bowl that money out. That's not. So yeah, and and I think the prices on the short term are high. So are they going to maintain? But relative to those prices, the squiggles are ten cents on the dollar, right?
That spread has too narrow for
sure, right? On a percent.
Well, Adam, I know you have a dinner to get to. I'm going to link all of this up and we'll get this podcast turn around really quick so that we can get as many people as we can to come in and check out your gallery if they're in New York and and pop in and and you know, have a conversation. Are you going to be around those days or what's your availability to have to chat with folks?
Yeah, I'll be there. I'll be there. I usually stand there and I talked to talk. I tell people, I'm excited and
Why I'm excited. And then part of my job is to get other people excited. But you know, Kevin I think of it. Thank you for for for, for being a supporter of this show and I really do appreciate it on behalf of Eric and the gallery. But you know, for me, it's kind of I see this as a as a great opportunity and a great privilege that, I have to be able to
To introduce people to this project because it's something I know is, right. It's something I believe in 100%. So how much fun is that to share that with with an audience and with the public? So to me, it's like a privileged. I feel lucky that I get to do the
show. Yeah, I think you and I are in the same camp and especially as it applies to crummy squiggles. I know when I went off and and I talked to our partnership and said, hey, I think we should go and invest in and buy these at the fund level and explain to people why they were important.
Place in history in the world of in FTS, you know, the Simplicity and elegance and everything that they are that make them so unique and fun. And yeah, I'm just, I'm happy to be a holder. And I'm like, you. It's like once you get into the traits and attributes and you go deep on Crombie squiggles. Once you see it, it can't be unseen. Like you get really excited about them and they just want to own them all. You know, it's a very fun, fun
world. Yeah. I totally agree.
Yeah. Thank you for your
time. All right, Kevin. Thank you so much.
Much. Alright,
that is it for this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you would like to help us out head on over to pre-cut XYZ and click on the reviews button at the very top and leave us a five star review. Thanks so much. Take care.
