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Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of The Art of Manliness podcast in the 1980s. When people signed up for martial art, they probably joined a karate or Taekwondo school today. The probably signing up for a role on the mat and Brazilian jiu-jitsu class in the Gracie family has played a central role in this martial art precipitous, rise. My guest today is a member of the Gracie family.
The head instructor of the Gracie, Jiu-Jitsu Academy, and the co-creator of Grace University and online. Jiu-Jitsu program is name is Hunter Gracie, and you may have seen the videos we've made with him on our YouTube channel couple years ago. You haven't got check them out today. Hit her walks through the origins of Brazilian jiu-jitsu beginning with his grandfather. Hey Leo and how a martial art born in Japan. Ended up being reshaped. In Brazil. He then shares how his father helped develop the UFC as a way to promote the efficacy of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, but why there's a big difference between sport Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu in self-defense, Brazilian jiu-jitsu and why Brazilian jiu-jitsu is such an effective real world.
Martial art, we end by talking about the mindset shift that occurs when you learn how to defend yourself and how the confidence you gain from learning, Jiu-Jitsu carries over to other aspects of life. After the show's, over check out our show notes at a OMG is / Gracie.
All right. Enter. Gracie, welcome to the show. 100 man. Thanks for having me. So a few years ago. We collaborated on some videos on YouTube about Brazilian jiu-jitsu had Jordan Crowder go out there and film you and talk about Brazilian jiu-jitsu and some basic moves, but I'd love to get you on the podcast to talk about this as well. I mean, let's first talk about your role at Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Your last name is Gracie. So you're obviously part of the family, but what do you do there with the
Business of Brazilian jiu-jitsu with the Gracie family. Yeah, so to take, I'm going to assume some of our viewers are some of the listeners I should say, don't know much about the Gracie, family, and maybe haven't even seen the awesome videos that you guys produced kind of taking it back to the history. But my family is kind of credited with the development and creation of Brazilian jiu-jitsu. My grandfather being kind of, the pioneer there, him, and his brother learn Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, and then over several years made, modifications that really increase the effectiveness, and that's the birth of
Brazilian jiu-jitsu, so it's kind of like an evolution of the predecessor Japanese Jiu-Jitsu and to test the effectiveness. They started fighting everyone. They could possibly get their hands on in Brazil. So there were these challenge matches that happen in the early 1900 starting around 1920 1925. And they were defeating these Giants much larger stronger opponents because, you know, my grandfather particularly was a much weaker smaller guy hundred and forty-five pounds hundred fifty pounds and went by defeating these Giants. He really prove the effectiveness of jiu-jitsu.
And you know, started creating quite a following for himself in Brazil and became somewhat of a national kind of sports icon there at the time. So that happened and you know, through all these challenge match really built a reputation for Jiu-Jitsu and for the Gracie family there, other members of the family were practicing as well, under there under his guidance, and then my father was born into it and 1952 and then he was the one who learned in Brazil and then eventually brought the art to America 1978. He landed here in Hermosa Beach, California and began teaching.
In classes out of his garage fast forward, 11 years of classes in the garage and several challenge matches. I said shape, I should say during that period. A lot
of challenge matches would like karate masters,
Taekwondo Kung Fu because everyone here in the States was kind of in the Bruce Lee mode and you know, so he would fight these guys in the
garage like Time After Time
people would come in and they would get choked out in like 30 seconds 1 minute 2 minutes and they were completely, you know, kind of dumbfounded by the simple effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu that we practiced and then after so many,
Years of those garage teachings and challenge matches. He opened the first Gracie official Gracie school here? Great called The Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy then here in Torrance, California, and that's kind of where the real kind of established School began in America. The first official school and then four years later. He created the UFC in 1993 which as a big basically a big platform to demonstrate the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu in real fights amongst
professionals on television. The thought
being that, you know, we had done these challenge matches for 80 years.
Ears at the time, you know, in the garage and in the dojos and whatnot. And to do it on TV with really expose, a lot of people to, you know,
the shortcomings of other martial arts, right? So a martial art word
teaches punching and kicking might look nice, but when it comes down to actual
Effectiveness, the second they get taken to the ground. They're like, fish out of water. The fight is over.
So whoever was more comfortable on the ground. Proved to be the most efficient fighting system. And that's where Jiu-Jitsu became, you know, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu by our family in particular became known worldwide.
That was 1993 soon
after we got Special
Forces Army Rangers learning Jiu-Jitsu, and then
hasn't stopped since. Like, it's the fastest-growing martial art because it
works. And today, my brother and I are the co-head instructors of our current. We've moved to times since 1989 since our first school. We've expanded over the last, you know, several years or 20 plus years. So we've moved two locations. We just expanded to a 30,000 square foot. Super Jiu-Jitsu Center here in Southern California. Still in Torrance.
And my father's retired, my brother and I run the business of teaching Jiu-Jitsu to the world and the organization is now called Gracie University and it's both has a brick-and-mortar presence here in Torrance. And we oversee a hundred and fifty schools around the world and growing every year in terms of Licensing, licensed certified training centers. They teach our curriculum of jujitsu, and we have an online university with, you know, almost 200,000 members, learning
Jiu-Jitsu through the internet streaming
video, curriculum at home.
And that's been a huge, huge part of our business to be able to teach any people anywhere in the world. Okay. There's a lot of impact. This is cool. So let's start off. What mean for those who aren't familiar with Jujitsu what separates it from other martial arts say like, karate or Taekwondo, right? So I think that was
something that we really. I mean, I'm just gonna keep referencing to it because maybe you don't know this, but the videos that you
guys produce tan Jiu-Jitsu with Jordans help. And for Art of Manliness, were
probably two of the most insightful introductory to jujitsu.
We
did multiple videos but a couple of those there sir have a couple million views. I think servers like the most effective introduction to the principles and the techniques of jujitsu. Like I've never done an intro like that with the mindset of keeping it short, but really just demonstrating techniques that literally and entirely demonstrate, why Jiu-Jitsu is more reliable than other martial arts. And that's not from a, you know, cocky or boastful perspective. It's coming from a purely technical leverage based.
A distance management perspective. It's just a better odds to engage in a fight. When you know, Jiu-Jitsu then when you engage in a fight and are relying on Karate, Taekwondo Kung Fu boxing kickboxing. Any art that relies on knocking someone out. Relies really heavily on a perfectly positioned and perfectly thrown a punch or kick. Meaning. The distance has to be perfect. Right? So I have to stand in front of you one arm length away. I have to take my hand have to crack you.
Jaw has to hit very nicely and sometimes it hits and it doesn't work. Other times. It hits and it drops the person but more often than not, it doesn't knock them out on the first shot and we stand in front of each other and we trade blows until someone gets knocked out. Someone gets the better hand. When you have a martial art like karate or Taekwondo. We're both practitioners agree that they're supposed to stand in front of each other and kick and punch until someone gets the better half of the organ of the of the equation and is effective in knocking the other.
An out or winning the match, that's an agreement. They have an agreement that they're not going to grab onto each other as boxers, right? The first thing you do when you start getting punched overwhelmingly, what does a boxer do he clinches the person who's hitting him? He grabs them right? If you think back to any fight, we're talking even Mayweather and and Conor McGregor when they had that, you know, that that circus of a boxing match which everyone watched. What do they do? As soon as May weather starts getting racked up a little bit in the first couple rounds, he would grab on and clinch. Connor and
And what Jiu-Jitsu does is it goes right to that point in the fight. Instead of saying, we're going to trade punches until I start losing. And then I'm going to grab you. It just says yo, you're not going to punch me. When you think you're going to punch me. I'm just going to grab you. I'm not going to agree to stand there in
front of you. And
then once we grab a hold of our subject in that situation, we find a way to grab grab and drag that person into a ground fight. And the reason is standing up to people, if you're six inches taller than me standing up, that makes a big difference.
Yes, but at once, we're on the ground, we're all the same height. Not only that once we go to the ground.
I have four appendages. If I know Jiu-Jitsu I have four appendages, four limbs that I can use to my advantage to essentially trap you grab you control, you submit you defend punches and the person who does not know Jiu-Jitsu when they fall to the ground, they only have two limbs. They only have two hands to operate with whereas the Jiu-Jitsu master or practitioner has four. So, you literally take the equation, but the sooner that to people who don't know how to fight really, when they're standing up its
two against two, right? So two limbs against two, limbs the second, we hit the ground. If neither one of them knows how to fight, what you see on YouTube all the time. Crazy brawl is, right. It's still two, limbs against two limbs, but the second, you see someone with, you know, I'm talking months, not even years. I'm talking six months, eight months of jujitsu training. Like, very limited that learns about 30 to 40 techniques. The bare minimum of Jiu-Jitsu knowledge gets into a fight when it goes to the ground. You see an application of their lower body and their legs, too.
Tangle the opponent that you'll never see between two untrained people. So you can show me any number of street fights. And just by watching them. I can tell you if, at all. And if so, how much experience the Jutsu person has based purely on their ability to utilize their legs to essentially control and then eventually defeat their opponent on a ground fight. So it's literally a cheating equation because we have four Limbs and they have to okay
and how, so it's not yours.
It's more about grappling submission holds so it's that's how it's unlike. Karate or Taekwondo. What about Judo? How is it different from Judo? Good question. So Judo
and are Jiu-Jitsu have the same origin of the Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, right? So they both come from the same place and, you know, in the in the in the, you know, early nineteen hundreds or even pre nineteen hundred's Judo was developed as the kind of sport of branch of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. It was developed much more as a recreational, you know.
Mind, Body Spirit and you learn these techniques, and it became much more of an of an art of practice compared to what the original Japanese Jiu-Jitsu was, which is much more focused on Survival life, or death fight for your life. So what happened was? Giotto Cano, kind of the Judo Grandmaster and, and kind of, you know, top figure you, go to Cano said, okay, let's create a form of Judo that can be practiced by kids in schools, throughout the country. Has a much more of a curriculum driven, and it became much more of a sport where they became much more of a confined set of
Rules. Where if you're standing and you throw each other and the person's back hits the ground, the fights over. So even in a sport of Judo match, once you get a one good throw, the fight is over. And so that's Judo. But it has the origin of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu which there are submissions. There are grappling techniques. It just became kind of a branch off of the original Japanese Jiu-Jitsu that really limited its street fight applicability because it was practiced almost entirely for its sport of practice. Not to say that Judo techniques would not have an application in a real fight. Some of those techniques could be
This dating rate, but the core purpose for its practice was not to prepare its students for a fight. But rather to create a recreational sport, that included these, these grappling and submission, and throwing techniques that made it for an effective Sport and something that kids could do from, from the ground up. So it became much more sportive. Based. The Brazilian jiu-jitsu is much more closely related to the original form of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, which had no confines of sport consideration. Always said,
Ed was you know, if we get in a fight we're going to have to survive against someone much bigger than us. We got to do whatever it takes. So as you Jutsu it, as practiced by my family, in the early nineteen, hundreds and evolved. Since has much more has, been much more focused on actual street fight against a larger opponent. No rules punches included, which Judo does not include, we include striking techniques. Not only has can be used by US against our opponent in particular situations where we're not at risk of getting struck back, but it also factors in heavily the
Against someone who's trying to knock you out. And that simply isn't something covered in Judo, or even talked about, because it's not a priority for them. So they have a similar Origins. But today, the practice and the ruleset Really determines everything, and Gracie, or Brazilian jiu-jitsu has a much germ or direct street fight application. Because in the gym, we're not practicing to a set rule set that would limit its applicability in a real fight. Gotcha.
So that's a good point to bring up. Brazilian jiu-jitsu, you know, people are often familiar with because they'll see it in mixed martial arts.
Arts fights. But this is not was originally not designed to be a sport self sport, martial art. It was originally designed for self-defense,
100% for self-defense. And today what you have happening is like happened. Very similarly history repeats itself, the same way in Japanese Jiu-Jitsu existed in a raw form way back then. And then Judo, you know, essentially came about as the sport of branch of Japanese Jiu-Jitsu. If you think back to every martial art bread, it's the same thing. Taekwondo wasn't created and I don't
What about the history about Taekwondo, but it wasn't created way back when it was because of the aspiration to have a sport. We can kick each other and earn Point through throwing kicks. That wasn't why it started it started for survival and Effectiveness on the battlefield. Let's just say right where they're surviving and you know, in times of Civil War, way back when and people having to defend themselves and protect their families and life or death. It started for a survival. Every martial art has a survival Fight for Your Life origin. And then what happens is as
Sport, AS practice of that, art, becomes common throughout a country or region or the other world. What happens if they have to agree upon a rule set that we're going to follow? So we can practice this. And then eventually what happens is the practice for the agreed-upon ruleset essentially, overtakes the practice for its original purpose and then the sport like taekwondo that was once a fighting system for survival, now is almost exclusively referred to as an Olympic sport. Where you kick each
Their score points if your foot touches my body? And then if you win a gold medal, this is awesome. But no one says, oh, yeah, you want to learn how to fight for real. Learn Taekwondo. That's not really worthy Association is anymore because so much of its practice is geared entirely towards Effectiveness in a realm where we both agree to stand in front of each other and adhere to a distance and a rule set that we didn't create but we simply have been practicing for the last 15 years. So let's fight based on those circumstances. And what's happening is even in Jiu-Jitsu today, that deviation is
Opening where there's enough people that have started your Jutsu and are practicing so they can go win a gold medal in a point based jiu-jitsu tournament. Forget even MMA, but I'm talking purely. Jiu-Jitsu were today. There exists essentially, two families in the Jiu-Jitsu tree, which is Sport, Brazilian jiu-jitsu where if you were to show up at a school, on the first day that you show up to class. They're going to say, okay Brett. Welcome to BJJ. Today. We're going to learn a sweep that gets you two points. We're going to learn a submission that would win you the fight and we're going to learn how to pass the
Which might get you three points. So people are literally learning from their first day. The Jiu-Jitsu that will be useful in a sport of Engagement. But may have very limited applicability in a real fight because like these other martial arts. I reference, once you start focusing on that as your Victory, you really start to disregard all of the elements that made Brazilian jiu-jitsu famous to begin with, which is those real fight survival elements. So it's actually a very contentious point in Jiu-Jitsu, and one, that my brother and I are kind of at the helm, in terms of making
Do you know a claim or at least the with the public aware that not all Jiu-Jitsu is created equally and that in many cases a student wants to learn how to defend themselves shows up at a BJJ school and what's being taught? There has no resemblance to anything that you would ever see in a real fight and it's confusing to them because their initial desire to learn Jujitsu came from seeing it being used effectively in real fights. If it was UFC one, where hoist fought, those giants were there was no rules, no time limits. No weight classes. The original UFC's were the some of the
Demonstration of jujitsu, and it's kind of raw and and most effective form. So today there is that divided in Jiu-Jitsu and and we, you know, remain hundred percent committed as an organization, Gracie, University to teaching it in its in its self-defense form and and people are becoming more and more aware of the
separation. So you teach for self-defense, but I imagine even that self-defense type of Jiu-Jitsu carries over to
sport. Yeah, absolutely. And that's where it all began, right? It's so everything that, you know, you
learn not everything I should say because there's some techniques, for example, how to defend against someone punching you in the face. It's the simplest way to explain this, right? If you and me were to start a fight and we were to stand up and you were just agree with me or you did something disrespectful and we had to fight the fight. Doesn't start with a shaking hands and grabbing onto each other's jackets, which is how Jiu-Jitsu match Begins the fight. Would start with both of us up, right? And you would swing for my face. And then once we're on the ground, you would be trying to eye gouge and punch me in the face. And I would have to be able to manage the distance in order to prevent those attacks from
Effective against me. So things like that the simplest Concepts don't directly apply. But there are other techniques of, you know, leverage and submissions that. Yeah, if I get you in a Chokehold in a sportive match, or I get you in a Chokehold in a street fight, you're going to sleep, no matter what. Both of those cases you're going out, but a lot of times what I see like I had a student come visit us from Australia last week and he had been training for a good three years. So, he wasn't like novice novice. He was just not an advanced practitioner, but definitely had experience came in train with us and on.
Days, we put on gloves. So we Spar in Jiu-Jitsu we grapple, but we're wearing gloves like MMA gloves. So we can be reaching for each other's faces and we could be not even knocking each other out. Nothing crazy. Like, I'm talking like 10, 20, % touching someone to show them where they need to block punches from during the Jiu-Jitsu grapple. And this guy from Australia who I was grappling with had never done this before in his life, which means the school that he trained at in Australia and I asked him this. I says, hey, have you ever sparred Jiu-Jitsu with
Someone reaching for your face, like even going through the
motion of going for a
punch just so you can see and manage that from a different distance. And he
says, Henry, we've never done this
once and he says doing it with you right now. I felt like I forgot all of my Jujitsu because I was so flustered by the prospect of getting punched in the nose. So everything I've ever learned was gone because the threat in front of me was so real and was so
So unmanageable be based on my skill set that I was overwhelmed. So he kind of explain this to me, and I go. Wow, this is crazy. So there's Jiu-Jitsu out there today where you can train for three years. Five years, ten years, and no one ever tells you like. Hey, if you're laying down and someone's on top of you in the guard, and they try to punch you. Here's how you manage the distance and control their strike so that their strike won't be effective against you and it's actually very easy to learn. We teach it to beginners in six months. So it's not hard to learn this but if you don't focus on it because you have other priorities in your training is very easy for this train to go.
Off the rails and suddenly you have lots of experience but no Effectiveness in a real fight country. So
that's another difference between sport Jiu-Jitsu and self-defense is I guess in sport. There's no striking zero.
Okay, not even one in, not even a like a simulation. And I'm gonna when we train with gloves here, it's very light because we have a thousand students or more, you know, 1200 students here at the school and most of them are not professional fighters. They're just want to go to work tomorrow morning.
So we have developed the best beginner
programs and in, even in the
Programs. When we're training with some strike, you know, positioning and strike and going through the motions. No one's getting black eyes or bloody noses. We did it. We did it was today Thursday. We did it last night already,
you know, so just recently. So it was
very calm light touch. Everything is just super safe. But nonetheless, you're being reminded that you do in a real fight this hand that I'm touching you, with very softly. It's going to come at you full speed and you better be ready from this angle to manage that, but if that angle of threat has never been contemplated or even practiced, whenever it does happen, you're like,
Minute. That's not supposed to be a threat. I'm only used to, you know, these Jiu-Jitsu sport moves. I'm not used to the threats that could arrive at my face at any time. So absolutely, it's a difference and it said it's a serious problem because the Gracie family
is responsible for making Jiu-Jitsu famous of the world and the creation of the UFC and much of that. By my uncle's ancestors, my dad and demonstrating the effectiveness. And most
people who start learning Jiu-Jitsu, who say I want to go learn Jujitsu. I see it in UFC, I hear is effective martial.
Self-defense. I want to learn it. 90% of people who walk into a school. What are they looking for? They're looking to be able to defend themselves against someone who wants to take something from them, take their dignity, take their property, take their kid. If someone wants to threaten you, you should be able to defend yourself and not get hurt. And even if they're bigger than you are, you should be able to do that because someone will try to take something from you. Even if it's your dignity right and disrespecting, you in a situation.
You have to be able to stand up for yourself and your ability to stand up for yourself, is rooted attic, or in your certainty. That if that person were to violently attack you, you would be safe. You would not be injured by them. I have that certainty. With every interaction that I have on the daily basis. I never am fearful for what someone can do to me physically, right? So because of that, I can engage with people in a confident. Calm demeanor that usually, and almost entirely prevents them from ever attacking.
Me. So I learn how to fight. So I never have to the problem is when people sign up for a BJJ school and they don't know what they're going to get and they show up and what they get. There is an entirely sport of practice of the art. The several years go by before they realize. Wow, I never really got here. What I originally signed up for which was that self-protection certainty and that safety guarantee. I don't feel like I have that because if someone throws a punch like this kid from Australia who came over, someone throws a punch my Juju
It goes out the window. So how certain I am that? I'm safe during an engagement or an altercation with someone over a parking spot. He can't be certain, and that's our biggest concern with current present Jiu-Jitsu state today, is that there is that divide, but there isn't Clarity to the public on every level, that what they're getting in many cases, is not going to give them the certainty that there. They, that Jiu-Jitsu can give them and that they originally came looking for.
I want to be an interesting point there that I want to flush out somewhere. This idea that by
By learning to do violence, which, which is what you're doing. When you practice self defense Jiu-Jitsu Jiu-Jitsu, like, you become like Kinder, which is counterintuitive when people think, you think, well, if you learn how to be really vile, you're going to be in a hole and jerk and looking for fights, but it in your experience. And I've noticed this as well whenever I deal with people who practice, who are like advanced level Jiu-Jitsu guys, or even like, you know, special operators right in the military. Like they're usually the kindest nicest guys, but I know.
That they could kill me, right? If they want it to ya. So listen,
here's I think the
people who are
most likely to get into a fight in society.
Are the people who are
lease prepared to get into a fight?
And the people who are most prepared to get into a fight for their life, are the people who are least likely to get into a fight. And I think this is a result of two things. Number one.
Is that?
I feel like by training the way I have my whole life, every single day, by being put through
the grinder by having highs and lows by learning
discovering by losing to my older brother. For
so many years, getting Tapped Out by him and him being, you know, better than me and having so many amazing students and training Partners.
I know exactly where I stand on
the totem. Pole of self-defense. Jiu Jitsu Effectiveness.
I have no doubts about. I know where I stand. I know what?
Cable up and I know what, I'm not capable of. So I don't need to get into a fight to prove myself to anyone or even to myself. Whereas, I think a lot of people out there, especially when you put a little bit of alcohol in them, and you have a little ego and you have some friends watching a lot of people who think they're tougher than they are filled. The really strong desire to prove to the
surrounding audience and to
themselves that they are as tough as they think they are now, ironically, they usually aren't usually they're probably
Ten or twenty percent as capable people? That's a general thing. People tend to overestimate their fighting capability. That's one thing I
know for sure.
Is that by and large, especially men tend to overestimate their ability to Prevail in a
physical fight for their
life. They think they know and are capable of more than they are there. Not if you don't know how to fight, you have no idea how to fight. And so I think that the likelihood of fighting being
higher for untrained people is really rooted
in that they need
Certainty, they need to prove to themselves. Whereas our students are coming to class everyday and they're proving it to themselves on the mat. They know exactly what they know. They know how they learn quickly, what they don't know, and then they start to build on that and they don't have any questions about it. The other aspect of it is I think that the more
you become familiar with the possibilities, in a real fight or an altercation, the
more you accept the the dangerous circumstances of a real fight, you know what I'm saying? You realize that even with all the training that I have,
I don't want to get into a street fight ever ever because it's too unpredictable, even though I'm confident that if I had to fight for my life, I'm going to win, right? I know that, you know, I mean the variables that people often don't think about, right? I might win the fight, but because I was, you know, I was took him to the ground and hit my elbow on the mat. Now, my elbows cut open. So, even though I submitted him with a gentle arm bar or choke hold, I'm going to the hospital to get stitches, right? And that's something I have to deal with.
If I win the fight, right, I might win the fight, but in the course of the fight, he hits his head on the ground and now either he's an injured permanently or he was bleeding now and bleeding on me, and I don't know what he has diseases. Who knows. I don't want to deal with that in the context of the fight. There's a, we live in a very litigious Society, so I might win the fight and get sued, right? So self-defense doesn't just mean protecting yourself from getting punched by the other guys. Self-defense means avoiding the fight at all costs because
Was of the possible variables that could come into the fight that you could have never predicted could be the ones ultimately to defeat you, right? When you, when you don't normally think about that, you think of losing to the opponent know you lose to the circumstance, you lose to the environment, you lose to the stand, the, the bystander who kicks you in the head because it's his friend that you're fighting and you didn't see them. So, there's so many variables that learnings you, Jutsu and building confidence, to be able to interact with someone confidently. The best part about that is that
That my likelihood of engaging in an actual fight drops so low because I respect the engagement so much, right. I respect the possibility of unpredictability in a fight so much. I don't want to get into a fight ever with anyone and by and large my ability to interact with someone in a threatening situation in a calm, confident, you know, objective demeanor and manner. That is largely why I never have to fight anyone. So if I didn't have the juice to that, I have Brett. If I
And have the confidence that I have. What would happen is in a moment of tense disagreement or, you know, hi combative energy between me and another subject. And that moment of intensity conversation or A build-up before the fight people who don't know how to defend themselves, tend to overreact in those situations because they're so scared of the interaction and of the possibility of a fight that they overcompensate. The problem is that over compensation is a sign of weakness in. It's very obvious to the opponent.
And they realize that you're just pumping, you're just faking it here, and that you're weak. And as a result, you're a, you're a better Target for them. So, isn't it? Interesting how it kind of all Cycles back, right? And and for me, I just want to make sure that whoever I'm dealing with knows that I'm a hundred percent prepared. I don't want to fight you, but if we have to get down, let's do it. Say
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to yourself. Yeah, and to other people, you're absolutely right. Like I know of a guy who's a an uncle of mine. Who's not a Gracie, uncle on the other side of the family.
Right, who was that? It was that a sporting game and an incident happened where some guy was very sitting in front of him and was very loud language. Very inappropriate language and was just talking and cussing and cheering one of those fans who just out of control, right? And then this man in this situation, he he was, he was, he's married to a relative of mine, but he's not a Jiu-Jitsu master and has no training, right? So he didn't really kind of adopt that lifestyle. So he's married to a Gracie, but
But he's not a Gracie and he in response to this inappropriate behavior of to the man in front of him. He got up and he just went freaking ape wild in terms of God about yelling, and just Way Beyond the reasonable threshold of interaction and what became clear, and fortunately, my family member who was with him calmed him down and like kind of brought him back to and just kind of intervene and stopped anything from boiling over but he went freaking nuts and later. The family member confided in me said yeah I do.
He was scared and he was, he doesn't know how to fight. So he just went so wild with his words that he felt at that would prevent the fight from ever happening, you know, and I can see how someone can think that right by overreacting and being acting crazy. But the, the subject on the other side of that, if that was under, if it was uninterrupted, they would have fought. And the subject on the other side would have been offended by his over aggression and would have seen that his over aggression was of was a front and you can tell, right. It's very simple, because everyone knows what you said.
Ed, which is the most deadly Navy, Seals and Delta Force operators, never over react to anything and the most deadly MMA, fighters, never over react to anything and the most deadly, Jutsu black belts, never overreact. Anything because they're not scared. So people who overreact, you're scared. And this is not private confidential information, the public knows this. So when you flip out the guy at the baseball game, he's going to know, this guy's freaking Hollow. He's faking it. And he's Halo. There's nothing inside. He's putting on a front.
Versus another situation where I had where I was with my now wife, then girlfriend Eve at House of Blues Anaheim. Watching our good friends Ozomatli perform, and there was a guy who was next to us in the crowd, great dancing, music, very fun, Latin alternative band. And and this guy is dancing, but it wasn't even like a punk rock engagement, but this guy is in his own mind, his own moshpit dancing, Loosely arm swinging just bouncing around in the crowd where everyone else was kind of keeping to themselves and I happen to
To be next to him. So we're when he was dancing around crazy. He would occasionally bump into myself, and obviously, I put myself towards his side, so that Eve was on my left and he was on my right so he wouldn't be touching her. But he would just shoulder bump, shoulder bump grunting shoulder bump shoulder bump. And it just got to the point, bro, where it was affecting my enjoyment of the night. So, like I said, I suspect I could have just moved out of the way, right? And walked somewhere else, but I knew that what he was doing was unpleasant not just for me, but for everyone around him because
Was just not following the vibe of the room. So instead what I did was I took my right hand and I grabbed him behind his neck with my right hand just like like, you know, like sometimes you put your hand around your friend and you like, put your hand over his shoulder like a bra, like a little half, bro, hug over the shoulder. But instead of over-the-shoulder. I actually grabbed with my thumb and my forefinger, 's. Like, I grab the back of his neck with a little bit of pressure. And I stopped him right where he was standing. And I stood behind him at a kind of a 45 degree angle so that he wouldn't have.
Have a punching angle on me and literally imagine someone standing behind you, and to your left with her hand, your neck. And I whispered to him. I said, hey my friend,
I can see you having a really good time, but you're bumping into us.
So do me a favor. Calm it down,
just a little bit and we should be
good to go.
Just write to his ear, no one else, even heard, and it was very objective. It was very clear. It was not raising my voice. And with the clarity of the message. He looked, he peeked over his left shoulder and looked at me and I was a little bit taller than him. He looked at me and
he just kind of moved to the right and that was the end of the mosh pit. It was done. You see? So I don't know what would happen. If someone else, you know, overreacted and a situation where the guy have fought or not. I don't even know. But what I do know is that guy felt that guy felt based on my C clamp on his neck and the calmness of my voice that I was ready to engage if I had to and my willingness to engage and my calmness.
I meant that I didn't have to.
But before I grabbed his neck, do you think I contemplated the possibility of having to fight this guy? Yes, I contemplated it. And I said, okay, I don't think it's gonna happen. But if it does, hey, it's I can handle it. So, because I have the ability and the willingness, not the eagerness to engage. That's a big difference, but the preparedness to engage safely. I didn't have to. Now, I wouldn't recommend the same strategy for everyone obviously, but what
I will say is that a calm, clear demeanor, right? Calm. Assertive confident demeanor goes a long way, but the problem is a lot of the listeners are listening right now saying, wow, that sounds great. And I'd love to be able to have that. You can't have that without the internal technique. That's the challenge. It's like teaching a kid bully proof. We have an amazing kids program called bully proof and it's the best kids program to teach kids how to defend against bullies.
He's in a school, you know, schoolyard scenario. And what we tell the parents, and the kids and say, guys, kids Target kids, who don't know how to stand up for themselves, or who won't stand up for themselves. You have to set boundaries and you have to stand up for yourself or you're going to get bullied for the rest of your life. It's that simple. Here's the challenge setting, the boundary relies on. You knowing that if you were to be attacked by the bully, you're not going to get hurt and that's why we learn Jujitsu to avoid injury in.
Case of an attack and to control the bully without violence nonviolent control, tactics for the bowling, or for the defendants against the bully. So, once you learn this, you to, then you can speak to the bully in a way where they won't pull you anymore. But the Jujitsu comes first, even though the fight may never happen and that breakthrough, you know, has prevented some, so many fights for adult kids women everyone. That's this. What we do.
Yeah, like this. So this is another thing. I'm curious if you've seen in your experience.
Teaching BJJ to people that that confidence, that comes that they know how to defend themselves in a situation if that carries over to other aspects of their life, dude, like do you see people becoming more assertive in their work and, you know, more and take more of a leadership
role in the families, every single person, every single person who does Jiu-Jitsu they start for self-defense. They stay for life.
And the best example is one of our recent blue belts. Vince Vaughn the actor. Who's one of our most dedicated students started? His daughter started. He started his daughter in the bully proof program, right? He lives here in the South Bay. We have a lot. We have thousands of people who are doing bully-proof at
home with their parents, for our
listeners. You can do it at your house. If we have it on DVD, we have it on streaming video through Gracie University.com. There are parents, who are actually learning bully-proof at home with their kids on the living room floor.
And then periodically, they send in a video every 8 to 12 months of their child's performance, and knowledge of the techniques and the kid can actually earn belt promotions from a distance or they can come to one of our schools and test in person, but there are families, who are doing this at home. Vince lives right here. 10 minutes away from our school.
So he brings his daughter to bully proof glass after seeing some of our bully proof videos on the internet. He loved the concept. He had tried another Jiu-Jitsu school before coming here and it was very sportive Jiu-Jitsu. And he says, and he's pretty public about this. He was like, yeah, the things they were learning. I could not see the applicability to a bullying encounter that my child might, his that my daughter would encounter. It, didn't even make sense to me what they were doing and I'm an adult.
So then he saw more of our videos. And that's when he came to our school and every single class, every single move we do is directly extrapolated from a realistic contemplated bullying situation. We're talking role playing, we're talking pure pressure. We're talking a kid comes up to another kid and says, hey if you don't throw this rock at that window, you're not my friend anymore. How when does a child learn to set boundaries with their own friends about inappropriate behavior, drugs and alcohol, things like that. When?
Who teaches them that? Nobody that school will tell them, don't do drugs, the parents will tell him, you know, stand up for yourself. But that's a very, you know, that's a very vague piece of advice. What we do is we actually roll play, every single one of those scenarios in the classes that we do. And then if things go south and they have to defend themselves with the bully attack, some, we teach them how to defend with that as well. Non-violently. So Vince is daughters in class, having a blast, loving the classes. He's kind he's watching her for several months.
It's not doing classes and you know, of course everyone's like alright. Well Vince doesn't want to lose you too. And then one day, I told the receptionist here I said, hey next time Vince comes in, tell him ask him if he wants to try a Jiu-Jitsu class for himself. And, you know, very glad to hear he was super stoked about the idea. He was like, yeah, I'd love to. So I pulled him in for a private class. First class is free for everybody. So I say come on humans and I do a class and this guy freaking loves it one class.
He's like, had her schedule is very busy. But how often can I get in here? How often can you teach me? And I might, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I'm busy too, man. So I'm going to find some guy. So we found us a panel of instructors. He's doing private training classes, at least three days a week. Now. He's doing private personal training, in Jiu-Jitsu on top of everything else. He does producing and acting and he is the most outspoken about Henner. Does you two techniques self-defense? Great, but he's like 656 for 220 pounds a big guy and he says hundred the jiu-jitsu.
Self-defense. I love it for my daughter. Amazing, for me. At least. I know, I can defend myself now against, you know, crazy fans, or people who say stupid things to celebrities, which a lot of people do at least. I know. I can defend myself without hurting another person. Meaning if someone were to, you know, come up and threaten me or attack me, or throw some bottle at me. I don't know. I can neutralize them and not have to punch him in the face. So from a liability perspective as a celebrity. This is the best thing I've ever done. So he loves it right in that sense, but he said, I'll tell you what the bigger benefit is.
How it's changing my interaction with my family. My wife in terms of how it's changing my actions, my interaction professionally. I'm calmer, I'm more a more technical in my approach to life overall. And, you know, and I think by and large, that's the number one benefit of judicial of Jiu-Jitsu that people realize essentially. After they've done it for a little while is that it has nothing to do with fighting. We're learning how to solve problems in the most technical leverage, based way every single day. If you were to come to me.
Last today, Brett, I would say. Okay guys, welcome to class. Here's a headlock. How would you get out of this headlock? And then you would say, I don't know and you would try a little bit fail. Fail fail, and then I'd say watch this and I'd show you the solution and you would be mind blown by the simple effectiveness of the solution. And when you see that Solution on day one, and then day two different, hold different Escape. Day. Three different threat, different. Escape Day for punching situation, neutralize the punches, the easiest way possible. Every single day, you're being
Presented with, you know, seemingly impossible, threat scenarios, and then you're being given the key, the secret, to being able to escape that threat in a very easy manner. Think about what that does to your confidence when you encounter a challenge or a difficulty that is not related to Jesus to think about that, how that affects your ability to interact with that threat scenario or life problem in a way where, you know, now that impossibilities are just techniques waiting to be discovered.
And that's the greatest benefit of practicing Jiu-Jitsu Beyond self defense
since money. That's my Vince Vaughn swingers reference their money, baby. So you, okay, we ghosts walk that through you. So say someone is listening this. Like, I want to do Brazilian jiu-jitsu and they find there's a Gracie place just right down the street from my place. Just opened up here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, they show up like, what is a typical class? Look like? What are they? What are they going to?
Expect. Is it they're just going to be working on a move is their warm-ups and what it may question. Is that
like let me walk you through that. So, here's the thing. I have to start by saying that not all Gracie schools are created equally, right. So a lot of people have the perception that there's one Gracie organization. And that's it. No, we have ours, Gracie University, Gracie, University.com. And we have about a hundred and fifty certified locations. Where that we've personally my brother and I being at the helm here have personally certified. Those instructors to teach the curriculum, 100% the same as
You are learning with me here in Torrance, California, and we've been able to maintain a quality standard at these schools that no other organization has been able to largely because of our use of the internet and Technology, We Have Eyes On The Ground everywhere and we can see the quality on a regular basis, and we have a truly remarkable kind of quality assurance system in place other, but in the Gracie family, there are over 50 members of the family who do Jiu Jitsu professionally, and each one of those might have five schools. One guy might have 20 schools, might have, I have 50 schools.
And so they're all different. You see? So even in the Gracie family. It's like we're all growing the same fruit. So to speak with different variations in sport emphasis. But so it's like all these different trees in the same orchard, right? We're all pushing Jujitsu, but each one has their own tree and each tree has its own branches. So on our Branch tree, we have a hundred 50 branches all over the world that that I said, follow these exact same curriculums that we now most other organizations whether their Grace you are not the different schools in an
Asian have know, how do I say curriculum? Structuring the teachings at the school? Meaning you might go to school one and it's different than School two. And two is different than three and four. And each of these individually owned martial arts. Schools are teaching something completely different than the next in these different organizations. And that was something that we figured out very early on how to maintain that quality. And that's a reason for our growth and why where you know, the leaders in the industry is because of that quality control. So if you go to a school you drive by and you see Gracie's
Z don't just think that a, there's a Gracie there and be, even if they're associated with the Gracie, family member that the teachings in that school are in any way resemblance of what the master Gracie, you know, tree trunk would be teaching you if he were there in person, I should say. Now some schools do it, some organizations do it better than others. And by the way, this is in the Gracie family and outside the Gracie family just Jiu-Jitsu. There's a lot of different affiliations that are called and each one has their own way of trying to make.
Chain some kind of order but it actually is a madhouse Oh, by and large, it's crazy. So what I say to people is this never just trust the name, never just trust. The name on the storefront at a martial arts school. Go to the school and don't discredit them because of a name and don't credit them because of the name, even if it says, Gracie go to the school, look at the school and make sure it's the right fit for you by watching several classes by looking around, seeing if the vibe, is right. So by and large, let the experience outweigh any name on any store front. Now that said,
Said of our schools that we've personally certified same thing, right, you know, the fact that I've stamped it and I can tell you that we exactly what they're teaching in their class today in Tulsa, Oklahoma, right? If I just want to look at and do some research, I can tell you exactly what's being taught at our school in Tulsa. Still you have to go there and make sure the vibe is right for you. But here's how it works. You would typically call in or schedule an introductory class in which case you'll go to a class. It'll be a beginner class. Right? So our beginner program is called Gracie combatives and that's a thirty-six technique program.
Just for beginners zero, two eight zero to 12 months experience. And Gracie, combatives is a distillation of over 600 techniques down to the core 36 that we have been teaching the US Army for about the last 25 years. So you basically the mindset of that program is you might not be able to commit 10 years to jiu jitsu, but if you can commit, you know, six months, eight months, 12 months, every single technique that you learned during that 12 month, period is going to be something that you absolutely.
Solutely can't live without like literally these are the nuts and bolts of jujitsu and oftentimes schools don't have a beginner program at all. So you might show up to a BJJ school and they say, okay, come on into class and you're in a class with brown and black belts, and you're a white belt, and obviously, in that case, they're going to be teaching tailoring it to the more advanced students. So you just become a grappling dummy. And that's why so many people have tried Jujitsu and had negative experiences is because schools, don't do a good job of creating entry-level beginner.
Rams that have no intensity, no sparring, no fighting. They're literally just learning the pieces of the puzzle. They're learning the alphabet in those beginner 36 techniques, 23 classes. Once you go to that program, right? And here's the cool part. It's a 23 lesson, 36 techniques, 23 1, hour lessons. It's a cyclic program. So if today's class number 12, tomorrow's 13, then 14 and it goes through the entire month, like that. And the best part is this program that we created in that all of our schools, teach. I can only speak on behalf of ours.
So, that program, you can start at any time in the cycle, and you can complete the 23 lessons in any order. So, this is where the kind of the Real Genius of the curriculum is. Is that a beginner can show up? Literally on class? Number 12, have zero experience ever doing Jiu-Jitsu, do that class and not feel overwhelmed or confused, or like, they're missing pieces of the puzzle because we teach every single lesson in the Gracie combatives program as if every student is there for their first time, so that you can imagine.
For a beginner is very important because otherwise, you're always feeling like you're missing pieces of the puzzle and why don't I know the moves that they're referencing. And what are they talking about in the language being used is so confusing. That never happens in our program, you come in and you're taking care of every single class. And then what you do is you keep swimming in this Pond. This Gracie combatives Pond for like I said, 8 to 12 months, once you graduate you take a test on all those 36 techniques, demonstrating High proficiency fluidity muscle memory. And once you have those Core Concepts,
Understood then you go into another program and it's like, you know, now you're in the ocean of jujitsu, right, but you don't go into the ocean until you can swim in a pond or a pool and that's the analogy and that's the situation. We've built and why our schools are, you know growing at a rate that few others are is because we keep we capture and keep the beginners. So safely and so effectively you kind of engage in Jiu-Jitsu in a way that they can actually learn and be proficient from day one. It's like when you know to surfing school
And literally the first day, you go to Surf, you're standing up and you're riding waves. And every day after that, you're writing waves, you're riding waves. You're riding waves. We figured that out for Jiu-Jitsu. Whereas most other schools you show up to surf camp and they say here's a board. There's the waves go out there, figure it out and you're struggling for the first six months. You'll eventually learn how to serve but it sucks for the first six months to a year. And then finally, you poke your head up and you go. Okay. I know how to surf. But the question is, how many people even last six months swimming in the ocean with the board and crash?
Seeing waves. Most people quit 90% of people quit before they ever catch their first. Wave in most schools
is Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Something you need to be in decent shape for, is it, you know, so young man's game or do they
can you cannot? Well, here's the thing. If you're gonna it's the same as the surfing analogy, if the surf instructor is sucks and the ocean is crazy. Yes, you're going to show up on day one and you're going to say, man. My cardio is not good enough to get up on this board, because I'm suffering getting slammed by these waves so much. So, in the survival of the fittest,
Framework that a lot of schools promote and have a lot of schools are like this. It's sad to see that they even survived is businesses. But in that survival of the fittest environment, you absolutely have to be a great athlete. You have to be incredibly dedicated and you have to make up your mind that there's nothing that will make you quit because everything will try to make you quit in our schools. Our thought is the opposite. Our thought is no Jiu-Jitsu was developed by The Grandmaster, my grandfather specifically for the unathletic smaller weaker, men and women of society. So if we don't create a
Dinner entry level program that caters to that audience word, literally wasting our existence away. What the heck, are we doing here? If everyone doesn't feel welcome in the programs that we create and have for beginners. So it's a completely school-by-school approach. But in our case in order to be a certified, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu training center and appear on our website, Gracie, University.com. You absolutely have to a get certified to teach the program and be uphold the
And if we hear it for one second that a school is deviating or not teaching the program in the safe structured format, that it should be taught in, which is happening, rare occasions. Then we call them up. And if it's not fixed immediately, we pull the plug and they're no longer a certified Training Center. So that level of consistency and quality control doesn't really exist in Jiu-Jitsu, and it's something that it's been essentially, my biggest contribution to Jiu-Jitsu has been the structuring of it for the easy onboarding of beginners who want to learn the
art.
Oh, this is fantastic. So people can go to Gracie, University. Right.com to find all this stuff.
And yes, Gracie University.com is where you go a to find a school near you. If you have a CTC within 10-15 miles. Absolutely, you should go in. And if you tell them Henner sent you that you heard Henner on The Art of Manliness podcast, then you will get 10 days, free. They'll sign you up for a 10 day, free trial. Nothing no page is go in there and just train for 10 days, all you can eat
And you're going to love it after 10 days. You're going to say, wow. How why have I waited? So long to do this. What was I thinking? And then you have options to sign up. After the fact, if you don't have a CTC, go to Greece University, create a free student profile and you'll have access to the first, you know, three lessons for lessons in Gracie combatives and then some lessons in our Gracie bully-proof program, which is also available online. You have free access to women empowered. Our women's program to defend against sexual assault, which my wife Eve is the head instructor of. So, we have programs for every demographic.
I think GST Gracie survival tactics is for law enforcement. So all of these have free samples online and then you can learn more about them, buy them online, or go to a school where they teach the program. So that's that's definitely where you want to go. For everything. Jiu-Jitsu is Gracie University.com.
So just to make things clear, you guys have a whole online program where you can train at home. Get feedback on your progress and meet up with other training Partners in your area. So if you don't live by a
training center, you're not out of luck. Now in addition to jiu
jitsu, you've
Got another side business going on
right and other business that I just started right now that you just kind of wildfire going crazy and every direction and very exciting. Is this quick flip apparel, right? So, I'm at the park with my son one day and I'm not an apparel guy. I'm at the park with my son. I'm frustrated because it's getting hot and I'm wearing a hoodie. It was actually one of my Jutsu hoodies and I take off my hoodie. And I throw it over my shoulder because I don't want to tie it around my waist. I throw it over my shoulder and then I'm walking after my son and I go to pick him up. He's only two and I go to scoop them up to go home and the hood.
Slides off my shoulder and it lands on the grass and the grass was still wet from the night before because it was a little bit had rained the night before so the Cody hits the wet grass and I'm like, I'm frustrated, you know, that little moment of frustration. You have it point in your life when things don't go exactly as planned. So I pick up the hoodie with that. I start sweating a little bit because I'm so frustrated pick up the hood and I think this is ridiculous. There has to be a better way to carry a sweatshirt or hoodie that you're not wearing, tying it around. Your waist, is not only,
Fashionably unacceptable but tie it around your waist. If you sit down on a bench your hoodies going to get wet. If you're riding a bike, your hoodie can get stuck in the wheel of the bicycle. It stretches out the sleeves. And if you don't want to do that, you're limited. You put it over your shoulder. It's not secure. It's not on you. If you tied around your neck, you can get choked. And it looks like you, you know, belong to a European Yacht Club. So there's many options, but none of them are really that efficient. So I went home frustrated by this problem. And what did I do? Gracie Jiu-Jitsu on the hoodie?
Get home and I'm like, this is ridiculous. We got to figure this out. So it's shoe strings paper clips, duct tape and scissors within 30 minutes. I create a functioning prototype of a hoodie that converts into a functional backpack.
In my house, just like that fast forward, six months, 15 iterations, later of the of the Prototype, modify modified modified lot of R&D brought in professionals to help me construct the Garment. We're going to production. We launched quick flip apparel and this cut, this hoodie is called the hero hoodie. And now we're freakin selling tons of them. And this is a new business that came out of nowhere. And I'm patenting, three patents on the technology to convert a hoodie into a backpack, and we're going through that process right now.
And it's the only hoodie that converts into a fully functional backpack and it's actually the most comfortable and best fitting hoodie, you'll ever own. So now I'm in the hoodie business and people love it.
Thank you. Well, Hunter has been a great conversation. Thanks for coming on
man. Awesome. And congratulation, all the great work and thank you for the support and all those listeners out there. It's just a matter of time before you try your first
Jiu-Jitsu lesson. And when you do it, you're going to regret not doing it when I first told you to do it. Thanks, man. Thanks brother. My guess he was hindered Gracie. He's the head instructor of the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.
To Academy and the co-creator Gracie University, you can find out more information about that at Gracie University.com. Also, check out our show notes at AO. M dot is /. Gracie ring find links to notes, reading, delve deeper into this topic.
Well, that wraps up another edition of The Art of Manliness podcast for more manly tips and advice. Make sure to got the Art of Manliness website at Art of Manliness.com. And if you enjoy the show, I'd appreciate it. If you give us a review on iTunes or Stitcher helps out a lot, and if you done that already, thank you. Please. Consider sharing the show with a friend or family member who you think it's something out of it. As always, thank you for your continued support. And until next time.
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