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Hey everybody, Kevin Rose here. Welcome to another episode of consensus. This is our every once in a while. Kind of every once a month, every other week, depending on what's going on, variety show. The covers all things crypto defy and in FTS. I am very lucky to be joined by a couple friends that we've had on the show in the past fairs and John O'Connell, great to have you guys on great to be here everyone. Yes, stoked.
It's changed man, since we last had a show. I have launched. The proof Collective which is a whole new thing we can chat about and yeah, gosh my wife had covid for a week. I mean it was it was pretty chaotic there for a while. How you guys been good. Good busy, but good luckily covid free but holding up and trying to keep up with the craziness. That is called crypto and John, you're doing some real life DJ.
Activities. You're risking the, the covid world and going to Vegas this weekend. Is that right?
That is correct. I'm all boosted up, but and and ready to go. So, yeah, so we turning off the computer for 36 hours and enjoying some real-life dgeni, or I guess those fans called it earlier. Adult G Jenning.
Exactly. He's grown up now. He's a real world. You know, man. I'm, I'm a little scared. I'm actually flying tomorrow, too.
Green Bay to watch the Green Bay Packers, take on the 49ers in real life, in Green Bay. I'm going to like double mask up. My wife is like do not get covid and bring it home. So that's that's going to be my adventure. But yeah, let's jump into some some crypto talk and and cover some things. I did want to touch on the proof in Ft sale just because I haven't talked about it publicly outside of my Discord just to tell people what has actually happened. It's been crazy. So, for those of you that don't know,
I launched a 1000 seat, a small collectors group of really hardcore kind of collectors and enthusiasts in the nft space dedicated to all things in FTS called the proof Collective and we did that sale. That was crazy. It was a Dutch auction. It started out at five eith worked. Its way down to one eith via the Dutch auction mechanic and we sold out in, you know, I don't know an hour and change or something like that, which was great for those of you that are wondering,
What that means. Well, for the collectors of means one thing which I'll tell you about in a second, but for the, the all of you that don't hold one is still means some great perks. Meaning that we're bringing on building out a studio. I put in, haven't talked about this anywhere yet. I actually put in an offer on a place here in Portland, Oregon, so that I can actually have the studio. So that means that video will be coming to All Things modern finance and then also to the proof podcast. So
we're talking to Founders will have them or artists will have them on the screen. Be able to show off works of art, which will be great on the nft side, just gonna be a lot of fun. So I'm excited to get that off the ground hopefully in the next couple of months and then the people that actually hold the nft, we have about 900 and 20-ish or so unique in Ft holders. So some people hold to on the proof Collective side. They get early, access to the podcast. They also get access to a private. Members-only.
Scored that verifies that they hold the nft prior to them coming in. They'll have access to, in real life events and then a bunch of different perks. And we've announced our first to kind of collaborations and projects which I can touch on briefly. For those of you that are curious. They I think they're kind of awesome low bias here, but I definitely think they're fun. One is called Grails. And so this is a really, really fun project. Where what I wanted to do, is that there is at times, there's so much emphasis.
This that is put on the kind of flipping of nft. You know, it's like when's the next pfp cow? Can I get in? How can I get make my quick 5x and get out
and that world? You know, I'm
not against anyone making money. It's just not a world that I love to play in. You know, it's like, it's just not for me. And so what I wanted to do is put the emphasis back on the most important piece and all things that have teased and that is the actual artwork itself. And so with Grails Grails is kind of the, the reason
Called rails is it's a play on the Indiana, Jones episode. You know, the Holy Grail where he had to Indiana Jones in that movie, had to choose one of the chalices and figure out which one was the Holy Grail? And so he could, he could only choose one. And if you chose wrongly like he would have died. So it was, it was a fantastic part of the movie. And so, the idea here is that will present you with 21 different artists. You will not know who the artist.
SAR. There will be no description and you'll have to choose based on Purely on what you think of the actual Aesthetics. So if you love the artwork and you think it's beautiful and you want to hold it, if you hold the proof collective in Ft. You can then choose to meant one of these works of art. The minting will last for three days after it's done, will be done with it and will shut down the minting, you'll no longer be able to meant one of the end of teas. And then you can actually go and we'll reveal.
Via livestream who they actual artists are. So, will be flipping the metadata inside of the UFT and you'll see. Oh, this was a, you know, so-and-so it. I can got to be careful not to actually mention any of the artists because it's going to be a surprise but I've gone found 20. Absolutely phenomenal artists to participate in this and I've asked them I said, Hey, listen, if you're known for some style of art, it's totally up to you. But you know, for some style of art, why don't you do something, you know.
Consider doing something a little bit different so that people won't necessarily be able to tell it is you as an artist. And so we have some very creative things. Coming some very unexpected things coming. Three of the artists that will be the vert. They are very well known in the technology space, but it will be their first time actually releasing an n f t. So, this will be their Genesis meant. That's also really exciting. So you can imagine, if this isn't one of them, but I'll just give you an example.
What it would be like is if Elon Musk came in and did his first and ft like that would be kind of the equivalent of some of these Genesis pieces. The other little piece of alpha that I can give you is that three of them, I believe, if not for them. I believe for them actually are in the top 10 grossing nft artists of all time, which is which is pretty crazy. So it's going to be a wild ride to see what people do and what they meant.
And is it when you when you hold the proof Collective, you have the option to Mint one? Just one. Is that, right? So if you hold the proof Collective nft, you meant one the cost on that I think is going to be point. I can remember what point O is about $150 equivalent to meant it. That money will be pulled together and then split amongst all the artists and the reason being is that we actually have some fantastic up-and-coming artist, but they're a little less know.
And I want to be able to compensate everyone for their artwork. And then the other really important piece of this is that 100% of all the secondary sales are going directly to the artist. So we're mending individual contracts for each artist. They get to set their own royalty fees and they get 100% of proceeds. So proof makes zero dollars here. It actually cost us money because it to pay for the smart contract development and then the website development and all the stuff that goes along with it, but that's fine. That's what the, that's what the the collectors bought into and they
Up fund that through the the primary sale, the proof in ft. And then that I'm using those proceeds to fund some really exciting projects like this. So it's going to be it's going to be a wild one. You guys will want to tune in even if you're listening to this and you're like, well, Kevin, I don't have one of the proof, Collective and FTS. I think the interesting thing here is that the minting will end and people will be able to sell The Inn at ease before we do the live reveal. So if you like, look at that that those 21 and you're like, oh this is this looks really cool.
I might want to get one of these. You can buy it before I do the reveal and you're still getting to play of the game of like who is this going to be? When the reveal actually you'll to buy in the secondary Market from an existing holder, but you'll still get to play that game in some sense. So really, really fun, little mechanic that we might use in the future as well. This one goes off this one works. So what are the dates for for the for the bits?
Yeah, so the dates are late February is when the actual go live is and I'll be sure to tweet it out under the proof Collective Twitter account, which is at proof under underscore x, y z. But yeah, it's going to be it's going to be Feb 24th or 25th is the one. I think that the minting will go live and then the live reveal will be on the 28th. So, I think the menteng is going to end in the 27th, and then you'll
You know, like 12 or so hours or before the actual live reveal, which I'm building out. I'm using the studio here. We're going to do a bunch of fun stuff showing off. A lot of the, the works of art. So like, I'll give you an example. Let's just say it's a an artist that I'm going to do the reveal on it'll be me. And another guest co-host, talking about that artists and saying, hey, this is artist, has done X Y & Z. Here's some of their other works. Here's what their stuff is is.
You can collect if you're not collecting one of these. This is why we think they're important. We want to have them involved. And by the way, their number 12. And so will completely go out of order. It'll keep people guessing until the very last second and then the reveal happens, so it should be
fun. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens to the prices of the individual pieces before. And after you release the names of the artists. Yeah, to see. It's going to be interesting and to see how many of them
each get minted, because if you think about it, we've got the
Total men's possible would be right around 1,000 obviously not everyone's going to meant one. So some of them could be meant to 20 times, some of them into 10. Some of they'll be mented 50, you know, there's 21 to spread those total men's lacrosse. So some of these could be quite rare. I have a feeling that a few of them are going to probably aesthetically. Look like the artist. They might be able to guess who they are, and those might be minted more, but in some sense you almost kind of want to
Well, obviously, the first thing you want to do is, like, find something that you truly want to hold onto and meant, but then if you're playing a little bit of the game, you might want to say, well, okay. Well, I like these three, which one is being minted, the least because then it's even more rare, right? So it's just, it's just a little, really fun little mechanic. So that that's one thing. The second project we announced is another artist called heart you, which is really up and coming on the Tesla's platform. He's one of the top ten artists in terms of
Highest single sale on the tasos him ecosystem and he's doing a pfp with us. And so, all 1000 holders of the, the proof Collective entity will get to meant his pfp, which is going to be a lot of fun. So it just like these types of collaborations and some other in person stuff that I'm excited about. Where idea, plans to doing some in-person events, a 10 ft, and why see there's going to be a meet-up of Gary V's.
And we're going to do there. Been talk about potentially doing something in connection with our blocks, and some of the other folks and do these kind of joint meet up. So it's been, it's been fun on the proof side. That's kind of the latest and greatest there. And I know you mentioned that kind of the the flipping nft part is not really of your focus and of your interest, but if you look at the secondary market sales of the proof Collective, it's the floor price is at 11 and a half. If I don't know whether you checked it, Kevin the last few days.
But people are anticipating that there will be some interesting drops and some interesting stuff happening within that Community, which by the way, is Super Active and super kind of interesting to communicate with the thing about it is I think the reflection of that price and I don't track the price day-to-day because at the end of the day, I don't want people to be speculating on the price movement of the nft. It's like if you care and you're a hardcore collector and you love to have conversation and discussion like we're doing a
Kind of like Discord only happy hour. Today. We will be talking about various entities, all kinds of things, then that's probably the membership for you. So in my mind, I'm thinking like I want to focus on how can I provide value? And it's going to come on a whole variety of different fronts, you know, I hope first and foremost that people get value out of just the the community that we we create and, you know, it's
the price. I
think it's just due to the fact that
that there's so few of these because there's only like 15 or more something like that available on for sale out of the Thousand or maybe just 20 or something like that. It's not a whole, heck of a lot. So I think that's what's driving the price more so than, you know, maybe these announcements. I don't know. It's probably a combination of all the above, right? Like people, like getting the podcast early, like supporting the, the proof Collective the podcast through this. It's like, it's this Collective membership, is the reason why
And do all this stuff. Meaning that it's the proceeds that give us the ability to do all of it. And it's also why we can keep it completely ad free for everyone, you know, we can hire a staff and even if you hold the proof Collective membership or not, it's completely ad free forever for for all all people that listen and enjoy the contents. That's that's great. Awesome cool. So let's get into now that I did a little update on the proof side. Let's talk about some of the other stuff going on in the world of
crypto.
I think, you know, remiss to not talk about, you know, what happened with Twitter yesterday, right? With the Twitter and a 15 integration and I'd be really curious from your perspective. Kevin coming from, you know, being in Twitter since day one and now see and have really taken this major step here with direct Integrations into web three wallets. Like what would be your interpretations of what this is going to mean for the broader ecosystem. Like I imagine also Facebook and Instagram, probably not far be, you know, behind them. And I also would imagine there's going to be
Sort of marketplace and iteration of future. So would be curious in your take.
Yeah, I mean, it was it's really
interesting to think that and I, of course, did the second, it was available. I jumped in authenticated a punk and put it up as my profile photo largely because I just wanted to kick the tires and see what it was all about. They don't offer this functionality for free yet. As far as I can tell, it's a beta feature. If you are a version of this Twitter, blue service, that's two ninety-nine a month. This service offers a whole slew of different.
It's like 10 or 15, different perks and it's a way for Twitter to get into some real monthly recurring Revenue. I think it's smart for Twitter. It's just you know, it's it doesn't cost them a whole lot to just verify and then of tea and and and put this as a profile photo, it gives the subset of users. Something to get really excited about. And it also quite frankly. It's just going to expose a broader Community, you know, it's fantastic marketing for the world event of Teas.
Because the first thing that's going to happen is you have, you know, normies, like just people that aren't in the nft space that look and see. Why is this Twitter profile icon a different shape, you know, because it makes it a completely different shape and they're going to click on it, of course, and it'll bring up it. Brings up all the distinct, all the metadata about that and have tea explains that incident of tea. You can I think you can browse it on Open Sea and it's just like a fantastic way to educate and get people excited about.
You know, what could go in this space. I don't know. I love it. What do you guys think? Actually, I think I saw it on your profile. First, this morning when I read about it. And the thing is I don't use Twitter blue yet. And as far as I understand, so only, if you're a Twitter blue uses, you can set the nft. But if you're a kind of normal Twitter user, you can still look at the metadata metadata. Right? Right. So it's that's not an issue. Okay. Now then, in that case, I really like it. I really like it because the thing is
Is in my podcast this morning, I was talking about well people were saying this already existed, people change their profile picture to their nfc's. But yeah, the interesting part is what the collection behind it. What's the idea behind it? Why is that person kind of holding that nft and all of these things? And I think that plays into into this, this bigger kind of nft pfp strategy, which I really really like, and I think it will become the future like people will adopt
More NF teas as their profile pictures, as we go. And I mean, we've seen this we've seen this trend for nine months and now it has kind of
a like a like a blue, like a
blue checkmark if you want. It's a more official way of doing the pfp stuff, right? Yeah. I think it's really cool. It's definitely not that I've seen a lot of this kind of right click save as like swapping out and saying you on the punk. I'm sure I'm sure it happens on a whole variety of different entities.
But it's just, yeah it is. It is something like people love to customize ride. They love to say they love to show that they're proud of something. Like, I had this in my youth, like people would deck out their cars and put like, you know, different types of things at least spoilers or whatever you want on it. Like, people would just like they, like to say, this is my own and make it unique. And and this is just a another way that's kind of more another kind of proof point of being able to Showcase something that that you love and that you collect directly.
Profile. John. Are you going to do this? Have you done it yet?
Now, I have not done it yet. I'm thinking about whether or not I want to do it, you know, because the I think there's certain part of the market that will put like some of them. More expensive entities that they own as like the
profile picture which in my
opinion is like just more of a flex like wearing a fancy watch or owning a nice car. You know, I think what's going to be interested in something. I would have find the right piece to do. For my profile picture is like can give a real opportunity for people to like cure.
Those new artists, right? Or like, give a real Spotlight to the collectors really to wear if they have a broad enough audience and people are clicking seeing what they're owning and follow through to the actual collections, you know, could give an opportunity to further showcase other artists who might not have the same Spotlight, you know, directly as the be a YC or puncture some of the other Market collections.
Yeah. It's interesting to look through my replies now and see how many people have actually change their profile photo. So
So far,
it's actually
not as many as I would have thought I would have thought a lot of people to jumped on this. Maybe they still want to sign up for the Twitter blue service. Initially Cosmo changed, his to an authenticated and of tea, I'm seeing a few but not not that many. Yeah still super early days. But I mean to see a
major platform like this Embrace Embrace. This technology is I think Super significant, right? And I think, you know, all the other ones are going to follow suit.
Racism. So, I think this is step one of a much longer story that all
evolve over the next couple of years. Yeah, that makes sense to me as well. Shall we stay in the nft space and talk about Open. Sea competitors? Yeah. Let's do see one. That's juicy. One II feel like you people probably heard of the looks rare. Nft Marketplace. Have you guys played around with it? Yes, I have John view. Yeah, I
have
And it's interesting, right? I mean they've gathered some hype. They obviously there was an airdrop for people. I think we've traded more than three. He's on Open Sea. In a specific time period. I think it's June till December or something like this and then you received a specific looks airdrop. And then you either, we're able to sell that airdrop and make a quick Buck or you are also able to stake it and get parts of the rewards, a part of the transaction fees.
Generated on the platform. And I think the interesting part here is people have been criticizing Open Sea for quite a while. On one side. Obviously. We've seen an airdrop Trend in the last couple of months with SOS token and with the looks, and the WTF token, and so on. And while people were thinking, well, we're expecting an Open Sea airdrop. It's not the Open Sea airdrop. It's more. The, we want to participate in the growth of Open Sea, and that is just a very interesting.
A model and Kevin, you know, the Open Sea guys, quite well, right. What's your what's your take on on the looks rare Marketplace and potential open. See competitors? Yeah. I mean it's it's one of those things where we all know that in a perfect world. A lot of this would be completely decentralized. It would be owned by the community. Like that's that's where we should go. You know, Universe. Not XYZ is been working on this for a while. Looks rare seems to be doing a, it's a beautiful sight.
It's very performant. I'm not sure how much load, or how many people are actually using it at this point, but it seems to be mirroring all of the Open Sea data. Is that correct? I'm not sure if it's 100% marionette, but you know what? I will
say at first glance it looks, you know, and functions almost exactly like opencl though. If you dig in the depth, they actually wrote their own custom contracts, that govern the on platform. So what I appreciate about looks very specifically more than you know, all the other platforms.
Terms that they were meticulous on their rollout. I mean and when they hit like, I mean they hit the mark quick which I think they launched less than a month ago and have a six billion dollar market cap today, which is just you know wild to think about. So it's not only with the you know, the custom code in the architecture behind the platform. But you know in the way that they did the airdrop which you know as D5 friends, we may remember the shuswap vampire attack on Eunice swap about a year ago as well to which brought an enormous amount of
Quantity over from you to swap in a matter of days in a matter of weeks and it's exactly the same Playbook that looks are dead on Open Sea and you know my thoughts I think opens he has to react somehow like I just think there's so many people biting at their heels now and look sir. I think has been the best attempt so far. So the question will be no, can they really attract and maintain the community over time? So but I think it's super, super exciting and 100 like excellently executed.
Attempt at really disrupting the market.
But I think one important part that we should mention also is the numbers that looks rare is currently doing are pretty high. Like, it. It looks like they are doing similar or close to Open. Seas trading volume, but there have been rumors. That looks rare is doing, or there is some wash trading happening on the marketplace. And on, I've seen both perspectives on one side. I've seen that people are saying, well wash trading is actually not that bad in order to kind of gather.
Interest and and, and show the volume and the numbers and that people actually can trade on this Market Place on the other side. It just means, well, you're blowing something up where there is nothing and protect the potential of the looks price kind of dropping down and people losing interest in the marketplace, is also super high with wash trading, right? So, I think it will be quite interesting. What will happen in the coming months? Because yes, you can get a lot of looks tokens as well as rep teeth, by the way. So you can, when you
Cure looks tokens. You can also gain or learn some, some rap teeth, and the yields or the rewards that you're getting. They, I think they will, they will cut them in half in February. If I'm not mistaken, I think 23rd of February. So it will be quite interesting. What will happen to the looks price afterwards? Because right now, of course, there's a lot of hype. There's a lot of volume and people see these apis of 500 to 900 percent per year. And there's
Saying, well, I might just take my looks make make some money while using a Marketplace and just not look at Open Sea at all. Yeah, it's one of those things where it's really hard
to open
sea is so entrenched. And so the household name and I know it's early Innings like we're talking about a couple hundred thousand people and and the masses haven't quite landed yet. So anything could happen, but when I think about
On the seller side like when you think about getting the best possible price for your nft. There's a couple of things you think about you think, well if it's a super rare in a few that I just want to sell it on super rare because they already have that baked in audience and they if they lot of people go there for one of one. So that makes sense. But when I think about just any other nft you if you're going to get the if you're looking for the best price. So, you know the most money for your nfte you kind of want to list it where the
a eyeballs are and I don't know, are people going to double list. Are they going to go list it over an open sea and then go over to looks rare to list as well. If there's not as much traction or eyeballs over on that platform, especially for the smaller Collections and the unknown collections. I Can See, For example, board, apes or kind of gutter cat, gang and send all of these entities, being double listed because there is probably interest on both marketplaces. But what about the long tail of these like smaller?
50 projects and there I think Open Sea takes the crown and they will just be able to kind of serve this, this content or these nft is much much easier.
Well, you know, it's a lie, alternative perspective here and I started to see a few of these platforms and merge it is that there will be aggregators that emerged like a one-inch, the unit Swap and sucia swap, right? Where you know, users don't have to have an opinion on the underlying market place that they're selling their assets and but rather can put it in, you know, one place and have it be listed on all the different.
Marketplaces and just go with what the absolute best price is. So still super early days. But like, I think that that is a product that is starting the, you know, they're starting to emerge. But there isn't a leader yet in the aggregation side. Yeah,
do we know of any aggregators are out there yet to do a decent job? Or is it? Have you not seen any? I've seen the vice versa? So if you want to sweep the floor of an NST, there is I think Jeannie dot x y z right called stuff like this.
Exist, but the the opposite I think doesn't exist yet. Yeah, I've used Genie. Speaking of just tooling and good tools for for for things if you're looking to do a purchase and you don't want to well if you just want to purchase a handful of things, all at the same time to apparently Jeannie is just the best way to do it. I don't know if you save on gas, there are not by doing it in one transaction via Cheney, but I know that
At you know, oftentimes when pieces start to be purchased if there's any momentum, you'll have a lot of bots that go in and sweep things up. And this can really ensure that you get all of the pieces that you're looking for, at the same time without having to worry about Bots buying in between your transactions, if that makes sense. So I've used it. I've seen, you know, when there's big whales that come in that buy something, it's crazy Gary Vee bought one of my proof Collective and ftes and
Lee 10 seconds, later four or five other people bought it and it wasn't because they even knew what it was. It was it happened, like the next transact. It was 100% Bots. How crazy is that? There are people tracking the big wallets and they just kind of mimic the actions of these wallets in order to kind of get some Alpha from from the wallet action, right? So crazy. Alright. Well, we'll keep an eye out on looks. I would say, I would say to people that have done significant selling. Is it just buying and selling?
Going or what? Is it? Where you are eligible for that? That free looks drop. I think it's buying and selling. I think it's transaction volume on Open Sea in the last 6 months during that time. Period. And is that drop? I think it's over with right? Because I don't see it on their site any longer like you're not eligible for those free looks
tokens. Yeah. I think it was a one-week claim period.
Yeah, I think it's gone now, but I was lucky enough to jump in there and claim and I just I said, I just rolled the dice as that. I'm just going to throw the street and a steak.
You know, just put it right right into staking. It will see what happens. And if the market wouldn't have nuked, I think you would have done really, really well, to be honest. Like if the market was going, like, I think looks was doing really, really, well, yesterday just before kind of the market broke down, but it will recover. Hopefully. Yeah, I'm not too worried about it. I have a pretty long time. Horizon on all this stuff. I just kind of like set it and forget it, you know, so when airdrop open sea, but I would say next topic, right? Yeah.
Exactly. All right, let's do it. Well, so frog Nation, this is something. I've heard a lot about who is who's the expert here? I'm trying to Nation.
Again. We have gone from zero to ten on the dgn scale very quickly here, but I can start. And then fans, if you want to fill in any blanks, please feel free to jump in but I would say like the broader topic or the broader, alerting that you know, I'm focused, I'm done. We have team at Revenge.
Is our think a lot about is, like these the idea of alliances throughout defy and like people and protocols coming together and maybe even a separate topic took in networks, but deciding the like either directly with the token swap or like more emotionally with like a community leader working together, and collaborating to like, help the collective set of protocols exist. And
one of the most notable ones that
have emerged lately is frog nation, which
Which is led by a person named Danielle cesta who has a long history in the crypto industry is worked on a few protocols for some time now, but really re-emerged on the scene with none other than Abracadabra we talked about last time. We were on here back in October, the creator of magic internet money. And so, you know for contacts when I think when we were last night about it back in October, there's about 1 billion dollars in TBL. It's not
Billion dollars in TV. Also, Advocate am has really picked up some steam and Danielle is one of the core devs there and use that as a launch pad to start what he called, the Frog Community, which basically are a bunch of people on Twitter. They have frogs and either the description or in their handle and you're just like, ultra-long at any project. That Danielle says, does heart of. So, few other ones that have emerged others Wonderland, which you you two may have came across, which is a gnome Fork.
On an Avalanche, which also one point like. I mean, I spend most of my time in the theater world, but Wonderland actually surpassed. Ohm, and in valuation, at one point in the market is like, driven a lot by like take talkers were talking about, it's like, it, totally, like different information flow, that if you're just like, traditionally Thief, I it probably would have never seen, but this is another project that Daniel is a part of and then also, again, can't make these names up.
Popsicle Finance, which is like a more djn multi-chain version of urine, I would say that's, I would say the highest level way of describing it, but like all these different projects. He's a part of all people, and as part of frog Nation are usually holders of all these different product projects and like they built like this rabbit Community. They do podcast together like they're talking about it. That crypto Twitter all the time and what happened one of the more notable.
That happens at the end of December. So, about a month ago. Danielle went to Sushi swap which as we all know, second-largest decentralized Exchange in the market today and but has had some notable team drama over the past. I would say, six months with Machi leaving and then their CTO dress adult, Delong, leaving and Danielle came to them and said, hey, why don't you all consider joining frog nation, which is wild because while, you know, Abracadabra has a
Have has a lot of influence on one of the last lot of influence possibly. They want now to the second largest centralized exchange, and put up a formal Governor's, proposal to have, Danielle become a core, contributor there, and help lead them. Bring them along this Alliance. So, we'll see what ends up happening there. I think it's still in discussion and there are a few other few other different
proposals out there to Institute new leadership in sushi,
but I think like the important takeaway. I might as well. Danielle, he's a developer, but I mean, he's really became like this.
More spiritual Community leader and has gotten all these different protocols from different edges and the crypto Market to start working together,
which is super, super cool. So
fans you want to add on anything to what I was mentioning there.
Yeah. I think you gave a pretty good overview. I think what we've seen as well. Since the last episode is also this kind of Alliance. We're done. Yellow was also looking at different protocols different networks, such as Phantom.
Which is, which is one of them. Obviously, he has built most of his products on etherium. Some like Wonderland is an avalanche and one I think topic is, of course, the high gas fees on the ATM network, right? So he has been looking at different networks and playing around with some. And I think most of his products were also meant to be multi chain in the future. Whether time has allowed it or not allowed. It is another question. But in the recent couple of weeks, he's
He's also kind of teamed up with one of the main contributors to Phantom who is under a under Kanye and they've kind of working door. They have been working on a kind of joint project and it is quite interesting because on one side Phantom is super fast. It's super cheap. There is a lot of focus and Spotlight on Phantom as well. I think that helped the price in the last couple of weeks to to gain some momentum as well. And I think it's also this
Push against. I want to say crypto 1.0 leadership because previously, if we had this, let's say 2017, 2018, you had these people who were my chain or no chain, like it is, it is my chain is going to be the winner and you're going to be the loser, right? I think in defy what we're seeing now with these people with daniele, with Andre with with even do corn from Terra Luna Etc, is let's work together. Let's try to make this.
A multi-chain future and that's try to kind of help each other. And I think this is also kind of going into John what you just talked about with sushi, like sushi is that base that fundament that they can all build on because Sushi has obviously a high TBL and a lot of people use it and it is deployed on different networks. And it I think it just shows that Defy is growing up as well. And I think it's really interesting to see these different founders.
Also leaders of the different protocols work together. So this is a shift that we're seeing in defy. Do you think this is the new kind of a Changing of the Guard, in some sense? And and is, what does this mean for ethereum as being the primary place where defy transactions have happened in the past is, is this going to if you all had to kind of use your crystal ball here? Do we see these projects, migrate to layer twos?
Or is this something where it's become, this more inclusive world, and, you know, Phantom and Avalanche and others, have an equal weight here in this on this playing field, you know, I'd say from the early States perspective,
Kevin, like, we're looking at some of the portfolio companies that were working with almost uniformly. All of, like, the people building on ethereum have selected a layer 2, or a layer one, like Avalanche or Phantom.
To start building on like it's very rare these days to see people just sticking on Etho. No one. But the caveat to this being like all the different changer mentioned. Thus far are evm compatible. Right? So like there are bridges between the two ecosystems like as reading a statistic. Yeah, last week, you know, ethereum process more more payments volume than Visa last year. Like it's crazy to think about. So like if you're a whale
If you're managing a large sums of money. I was do, imagine that ethereum is going to be the place that you're going to be doing most of your training, most of your business, but I think expansively we look at either the L2 ecosystem or some the L evm. Compatible l1's. This is just going to make these applications much more usable for people who don't have, you know, who don't have significant sums of capital. And also, it'll, it'll enable new types of products and services. That can't be can't be
Functional with high, gas phase. So, I'm super polish and I would say, you know, much to the credits of the Phantom's and The Avalanches on called the evm. Compatible, Al ones. They're just doing an amazing job building their own unique communities, but then really engaging these ethereum developers to come and Deploy on their networks. I suit. Similarly. I
think what we will see in the let's that's a next six to nine months. At least is the user experience on these
L1 ibm-compatible chain such as Phantom Avalanche will surpass the traditional Ethiopian based the apps. I think what a lot of kind of this Focus brings is also people want to have easier to use apps easier to get to these apis and I think e theorem is just too expensive right now with L2. I'm a bit unsure because we've seen some of these l2s also hit some roadblocks on.
Way, so I think it will be at least short term. It will be l 1 Alternatives, such as Phantom such as Avalanche with the power of evm. And I think in the future, I think evm will always be a base at least to kind of pour the, the D apps at least and, and kind of the most important tools if you're will still stay. I think, on a fundamental level will stay important. I think the stat you that you just mentioned. John is a super important stat. And I think
The theorem will process a lot of the let's say at least Financial transactions in the world in the future, in my opinion, how they are going to solve. This is a whole different problem, of course, whether they will stick to L1 and try to build on that or whether they will go to L2 route is going to be an interesting one, but I think etherium mid to long-term is not to be thought a way. I think it's still will have its place but when it comes to onboard new users when it
Stu the Robin Hood crowd. Let's call it. They will move to these Phantoms and avalanches and Lunas because it's just more fun, more interesting. It's Community. It's meme driven and I think this will be a winner for these protocols. Interesting. That's that's and you think that's what l2's, lack. They're not they don't have the same Community Drive as some of these ibm-compatible other chains.
I mean, I'm a bit in this L1 e VM e, coach, em chamber to be fair, but from what I'm seeing yesterday, they're lacking this because it's more, it's the more the business approach versus. Let's have fun and build stuff together and maybe we'll break stuff around along the way. Whereas the other l2's are more of, let's that's the built slowly, but but safely interesting. So how do you think of this, in terms of portfolio construction for you to, you know, obviously the shows not
Investment advice by am always curious to kind of pick through how you all think about it. Do you do you hold any of the l2s versus the VM compatible chains? What do you think about? They're from my side? I'm still, you guys know, I'm a phantom Fanboy and I'm still holding my Phantom back. And to be honest. What is really interesting is also, for me, the Phantom ecosystem as a whole, in my opinion is super undervalued, especially if you look at metrics such as
Market cap divided by T BL. For example, which is in a more important metric that we use in the defy space. And if you compare it to the to the other, let's say bigger networks. Phantom is still super undervalued. Now, if you go deeper into the ecosystem, you can look at spooky swap Spirit Swap and all of these funny names but these Protocols are actually processing a lot of transactions and building kind of the let's say the theorem equivalent on Phantom and
I think that is the mindset for me at least for the short term and I think Phantom is undervalued. So I am really bullish generally on that. I'm also bullish on Luna in general as well. I do have some interest in avalanche as well. To be honest. I don't think it is a winner-takes-all here. I think this working together, this this part, this multi chain future. I think it will work even in this, that's a crypto 2.0 leadership time.
How about you John? I yeah, it's going to
say, oh, and they as much credit to you. I mean, you've been early on the Phantom train for a long time now. Anyway, before all the activity and all the new protocols that have been launching over the past, few months, the same with with Tara Luna as well, but you know, it sort of the my portfolio. So I try to minimize like personal training because it's such a distraction for me. Like I can get so caught up in it. Like looking at
The prices every day. And I try to focus on, you know, the long-term Investments that we're making, the cabin are making a true. But using those Duds a and for more of the ecosystem, ecosystem investment said, makeup on a personal level. So, you know, by and far, you know, my largest like holding I have right now to values. Tara Luna. I've been there like in the early days in I think do Quan is like he has the perfect mix of just like total community and able met. And what
I appreciate about like the way that he builds an entire Community builds. It's like with one single metric in mind, which is just broadening the usage and utility of UST like as far and as wide as possible, which I think is super super interesting. But yeah, I mean, we're very clearly. I think heading into a world that is multi chain. I think the eith l2's like had their moments and the market, or I'd say the Zeitgeist and the commute, like the way the king is talking about it like 6 months ago, but
Honestly, kind of dropped the ball, like a is weird to say but by not having a token, like it's hard to build a community around a product that doesn't have a
token, which is sort of a knocking
about with Open Sea, which is why I think Avalanche and Phantom have been able to get a lot of these great developers. And a lot of these great projects to start deploying on them because they have a token, they have something the community can buy into and feel a part of and and massive treasuries to incentivize people to come there. So we'll see how
How the l2's and Roll-Ups react to this, but I think Avalanche paths move just again, really knocked it out of the park
recently. It would be interesting to hear your opinion on this as well. Kevin. I mean, you're an OG in the space. You, you grew up with a theorem. Let's say, how do you think about these new potential competitors or these new technologies? Are you looking at these at all, or are you just focusing on? Let's say the fundamentals and just believing in those.
It's a good question. You know, it's one of those things where when I think about I really don't know. And I've been asking a lot of smart people recently what their thoughts are. I just haven't launched it yet. But I just did a podcast with the to bank lists Founders and have them on Modern finance and we got into this a lot around you know, what is the future of ethereum? Like, what does it mean? And there are
Argument which I by is that etherium is becoming this
very this
decentralized base layer for settlement is what the etherium L1 will be like. All ultimate settlement will happen back on the L1 and you can't think of it as a place. Where humans will transact, you have to think of it where the machines will and that the money robots will do sit there and they'll use it.
For security for the security that it affords being so decentralized. And so they think of it as a very modular thing. We're in some sense. You'll have these competitive l2's that will all offer different trade-offs, and speed and security and you know, and eventually potentially, even some of these evm compatible side, chains could settle back to ethereum, right? So,
I just
have a hard in the
short term. I don't see there being any clear winner here. I don't think it's like a winner-take-all. I think it's going to be a whole slew of different things, speaking, with each other, and it will be up to us to figure out how to from a UI and usability standpoint, smooth down those rough edges. So that the average consumer doesn't have to think about any of this stuff, right? And I think that's
Where the magic is going to happen? I think it's gonna be a little messy behind the scenes, but I when I imagine the average user transacting in the future, whether they're buying in at ease or they're doing something that interacts with etherium. It's probably going to happen through a handful of ways that behind the scenes won't really matter. Like I'll give you an example, when you buy something on Amazon, you're not
I'm asking them. What type of database they run? You don't care. If it's Apache on the front-end web server side. You don't care about all these little things on the back end, right? We're just talking about a bunch of different databases on the back end that are going to have to communicate with each other. And, you know, right now on web to world, we have standards for this. Their apis that allow you to cross databases and communicate and put data in and out of different databases. That's more or less. What we're doing here on the crypto side of things, right?
There's Bridges and wormholes, and all whole slew of different ways of unlocking and locking and moving assets cross chain, and I get that it's really ugly. And that we have to interface with that stuff today because we're in the wild west and we're on the Forefront of this stuff. But I just I'd imagine that in some
sense. It's
just like, we're probably going to be removed from that quite a bit and as investors will want to hold and bet on certain horses like when I buy
Amazon stock, I'm looking at ec2. And I'm looking at the ec2 offerings and I'm looking at, you know, some of the cloud compute different things that they're offering and how they're doing their own silicon now. And some of the stuff they're doing behind the scenes on the AI front and like, that's because we're geeks and we like to go to that level, but I don't think the average consumer is ever going to have to go to that level. So, you know, you there is a world where you buy something on coin, based in a few Marketplace and you're using one of these odd.
Side chains or l2s or Avalanche and as a consumer, you just don't think about it. You just trust it, you know, that it's secured. And if you want to send it to someone that is on a theory and it has an aetherium wallet you can do so, because guess what? All the bridges in the ways, to move it over to that network will exist in the next couple of years. So I, I just don't know how in the weeds were getting here and but I yeah, so I don't know how to play this though. The only way I can think of
Of how to play it with me as an impersonal investor is that I know youth is going to be it is it is so important to everything and it has so much momentum that I just don't believe either is going away. And so I especially with their move to becoming a Greener cryptocurrency and a lot of the L2 momentum they have going on. I think it will be a very important network of the future. I think that there is going to be purpose-built.
That will do new and unique things, whether it be for, in FTS, or even like the performance, blockchains like Solana and others. That will always have a place. And then, they'll be the evm compatible stuff, which will probably also have in the short term will outperform. A lot of the l2's because it just works today. Right?
And I think that I like
the market caps where theyre at. I think that's worth. It's worth probably having a little chunk up. So if anything you all are convincing me.
That I should probably go and hold a little bit of Phantom and hold a little bit of avalanche. I wouldn't make the massive big parts of my portfolio. But you know, I'm curious. I'm curious, I would, I think if you think about where they are today and what they could become in the future, like is there a 10 15 20 x there somewhere? Probably, you know, if everything works out so hearing that like thinking that knowing that I might have a little taste, you know, just like a little little something in the bag but of deej in a little a little baby bags that on.
I that you just like roll the dice on because it's interesting Tech. It works well, and it could be the future. It's too early for me to, like, call these things like it. And I just don't think I have that this world is moving so fast that anyone that tells you, they can tell you what's going to be what we're going to be doing a year. From now, it's just like I think kind of lying to you know, it's like I can only look about about three months out. I don't know about you all but that's kind of how I feel, but we'll do one.
Even though regarding, let's say, if theorem stays as a settlement layer as this fundamental settlement and security layer, will The Ether token have specific value attached to it? Because if we don't interact with these different tokens anymore, or if it's like more seamless, then why do we need to either token? We just need kind of the, the network, the nodes, the blockchain behind it, right? Yeah. I mean the the point that the
Discriminate is that The Ether token is going to be required to do any settlement back to that main layer. And if you have to imagine that with the scale, it comes more need for settlement. And so meaning like if we're actually onboarding, you know, millions of users onto onto onto crypto, you're going to need to have that and also the burning of a theorem what's happening there on that side as well.
There is a world where the overall the inflation stops and it becomes a deflationary currency. So, you know, there's a lot of ifs there but it's it's in that case it becomes a more of a scarce asset, but I will say that like, eath is becoming more of a eat. Doesn't just have to exist at the layer one level, right? It can exist on the layer to level. It can move into reverse its way around so it can
Used in a very performant environment, right? And and more and
more people are.
I can't think of another currency in my mind, that is used for day-to-day transactions. Then III right now. Like, when you go and buy something as Sotheby's and Christie's and the nft
market, they only accept
payment and eat. Right? And and the one
word, anything in
Ft. Related is all denominated need for the most part, unless you're on you, buying a very specific.
Vic block chain based in empty, like a Solana or Tesla's or something like that, right? Those are the only three currencies. I just had an interview with the founder of object or the founding team of object three of them. Which object is the big kind of nft Explorer for the tasos ecosystem. I kind of wanted to pick up a little bag of Tesla's as well man. I would say outside of outside of e they are the the kind of biggest nft chain.
No, like I know that wax does a bunch of stuff but nobody, I don't know of anyone that takes it. Seriously outside of big corporations and there's flow. And, but, I mean, there's a couple others that are up and coming. But tasos, has this, like, Indie Cool vibe with the whole hand ecosystem and everything going on there. I kind of think Ted's is a is one. I have to I'd like to kind of prosecute and go into a little bit deeper and potentially considering as well. I know that's way off what we were talking about. No, but it's
It's a good
point. We've mentioned my probably 12 names here. So you don't. Then the other question is, how concentrated do you want to be, right? Because like
everything looks so cool. Look so
interesting, right? And like, you know, get a band home one day and then o time popped up. I gotta go put some money here and then deposit some things in your and right. So, you know, maybe the right answer is just like it's hard to go wrong.
If we really think that
this Market or this industry industry directionally, you know, has several orders of magnitude of growth growth.
It so it's easy to get caught up in the day-to-day and just like optimizing and you know, seeing what's the hot thing of the moment.
It's a great point. It's a really slippery, slope, right? It's one of those things where you can get eaten up by by chasing like the hottest thing and actually lose a lot of money like there is an argument to be said that and I bet you this would probably be true. Is I've had I just kept everything in aetherium, a Bitcoin. So the
Very beginning and just not touched anything. There's a good chance. I'd probably be. Well. Solana was a big home run for me, but I would say that there's a good chance. I'd probably be have more money today. I just shut my eyes and not touched anything, then try to bounce around all these different protocols and have some wins and has some losses, you know. Yeah. I think we can all relate to that. I think especially if you've been in crypto for a couple of years, probably just betting on one or two things closing your eyes. Not looking at the bar.
For three years and you're probably be way better off. But where's the fun in that Kevin? I mean, that's why we do. I gotta tell you though. I at these prices with it coming down, part of me is just like, I want a little another taste. I want to go back in. I see. I see sale signs everywhere. All right. Yeah. I know. We got to wrap it up soon. Let's do One More Story. Yeah, so just very quickly, Royal
many people might know it's time to buy Justin blouses. Like
a very famous EDM dj, as well as JD Ross, who was one of the cofounders of Open Door, like a very large venture-backed company here in the United States. Also Nathan Jones is pre-survey, 16z is involved there, but they are a major music and it's you platform that had their first drop yesterday, which is really cool with this with nas, who many people might know is like one of the legendary New York City hip-hop.
As to where NASA is two of his new songs as and of T's where users can buy up to 50% of the streaming rights in exchange for like upfront cash. So in the, in the two cells not actually ended up raising and I think we have almost a half a million dollars which was super, super cool. And then with the users now, owning these commemorative entities that like the song that they now own a part of and then also can earn streaming rights or rights to the streaming revenue from Spotify.
Hi or apple music Etc. As a song, picks up popularity in the mainstream, but you know, while this was like, I think just sort of a first example at the Marquee artist and make what excites me more more in the future is this is a really cool way of crypto gam, like disrupting the Legacy music industry, which is super exploitive, definitely takes advantage of artists who are younger or can't afford to really do their own thing. And this is just a new way. If I part it has a small community, you know, could raise a little bit of money can
Go out in there, do their own thing, you know, but then, you know, maintain a significant part of their streaming rights to get off the ground. So this is a cool one just dropped. I think we entities are also available in Open Sea now, but that's definitely a project that I've been. I've been keeping track of and a fatty team that I very deeply respect John. I'm curious. How
does the streaming rights? You said? They can earn a portion of the Spotify. I'd imagine Spotify, doesn't have the
Structure in place to dynamically, split royalties out to many many Nifty holders, right? That's just a nightmare on the back end. They didn't build that who's handling that. How does that even technically work?
Yeah, so that's happened at Royal. So I imagine it's a direct integration between royal and Spotify. And since Royal is the primary market place. They can see who owns a specific and at ease in the user, can go in there and claim the royalties directly from Royal. So from Spotify,
God's just, you know, single API connecting to Royal. But for Royal they can have the Ledger from the smart contract as to who specifically what and then users can go clean their Pro rata share of the royalties.
Well, that's crazy. Yeah, that's a lot of streams to make any money though. On Spotify, right? I heard the numbers. It's theirs. It's there has to be a pretty big artist and it is be split that many ways. I can't imagine it's going to be serious revenue for folks.
But, you know, the idea being sort of like us and Venture Kevin. Imagine, if you find the next, you know, Martin Garrix or do at Lipa or whatever before they're big and you buy a big, you know, part of one of their new hits for some amount of money and ends up blowing up, right? So, and you know, it just gives artists a new way of like, connecting with their fans and a deeper way where, you know, instead of just me listening to my favorite artist. I can like actually feel like ownership stake and their success.
Much like you know, we're talking earlier about the different states and works and protocols. Yeah. I mean, it's totally different when you feel there's a different connection with people when you you know, share a part of them or the company or the story success.
Yeah. The real win here would be, if you could own a percent of the entire artist works over a certain amount of time, right? Like if you think about how they, how does the artist when the artist winds from
From the entities trading hands. Like that's like the as the nft trades hands over time. They're going to get a percentage of that right back directly back to them. Right. And the appreciation of those in FTS. So in some sense like you, imagine you identified the next, you know, Radiohead or whatever when they're, you know, 22 years old and you get in the first album, you're like, oh, I love that this bands gonna be huge, right? And then you hold the percent of their future earnings.
But it, what is it? So it just applies to are they applying it globally? So, like, for example, if it was Radiohead, you identify them early. You don't get any rights to their live music. Performances. Do you get rights to future albums? Is it just on an album or track-by-track basis? Or they saying this is like of an overarching thing for the entire
artist? I think that's that's actually the magic of the platform artists can choose what they what they want to sell, right? So they can choose if it's just a single song. If it's a
An album, I imagine they wouldn't do live performances because that would be a very different product. But just on like the music level, right, you know, it doesn't have to be the entirety of the work in the future, right? Or, you know, I think the standard record, you know, deal is like artists have to basically loaned money and like have to pay it back and have to make a certain number of albums that have to pay it back if their revenue doesn't exceed. Whatever the loan was like, it's very thing, you know, like very
Non-artists Friendly Deals is the standard right now. So, you know, maybe in the future of people don't want to sell any parts in the music, right? Or they don't know, whatever. But artists have full autonomy over, whatever they feel comfortable sharing with their, their fans and Community.
Yeah. This is going to be applied to all different creative Industries. Right? Like, there's no reason why this doesn't exist for writers, write, like you have the next book coming out. You're like, okay. I'm just I don't need an advance from some, you know, where I have to give a part of this to my the person that
It's actually pitching my book, my agent, and then, you know, I get a really chronic crappy deal from the publisher and then guess what my digital rights is even even crappier deal, which is this is the system that exists today. It's just, like, it's broken. And this is where an example of blockchain bringing efficiency and and being able to just go directly back to the Creator that I think is just such a beautiful thing. Yeah. 100%. And I think also, I mean, you guys mentioned kind of the live performances as well as
As we start integrating merchandised live performance, and all of these things, maybe the online shop as well. You can also kind of bet on certain albums, performing better than others. So if you kind of by the token or the the nft before he or she goes on to, let's say a live performance tour, then maybe you can. Maybe it will be some interesting price volatility happening there, right? Yeah. I mean, there's a world where you say, okay, this artist is
Coming out with an album, you get to listen to it, you buying in ft to give you the rights to listen to it, and get in and have a small percentage. And then, you know, you here before everyone else. You think you have an ear for this stuff. Anything is going to be massive, you double down, and you buy three times as much or whatever of that particular ownership and then watch when it hits the world and see how it plays out. It's crazy. All right fans. You want take us through the last story. Just a small one. I don't know whether you guys know the Opera browser. The Opera browser has always been of
Of a niche browser browsers in the last couple of years. And I remember, even when I had like, is 56k connection back home. And when we were looking for the fastest browser, to make the maximum of the internet connection, it was sometimes Oprah then it was Netscape, then it was Internet Explorer, the new one, the old one. And so on. This is all for the new kids. This is all pre Chrome times, right? When we really had to weigh the performance. The interesting part about Oprah is Oprah is a browser that has been developed by
Buy some developers in Norway, and interestingly has some interesting privacy and crypto features as well. So they have a VPN, they have ad blockers. They have a crypto wallet and stuff. And for the people, using the brave browser like I do, it's very interesting to play around with different browser. Products. I think Oprah's product is really, I can't take the are calling it Oprah. Sorry. It's amazing. She also has a great talk show host as well. What?
Is it called the hobro proper? Ah, so good. Get everything. You say Oprah. I don't think it's a talk show host. I started cracking up. No. Oh man. Okay, I get it. I get it there. Yeah. Okay. So keep going. Sorry. It was just funny. No worries. No worries. I'm the guy not in the u.s. Folks. Don't forget. Anyway.
Oh para browser. It has some cool features that I think I've been using the brave browser for a couple of years. Now. It is much more energy efficient for especially if a bunch of tabs open like as the agents do it can be quite heavy on a battery and if you're on the road and stuff, so it is interesting to play around with different browser products as well. I kind of like the features that Oprah has been bringing.
For the crypto space as well. I've been playing around with it for a couple of days. Now. I kind of like it but to be fair the market share is super low. So it's about two percent. I think. And the reason why I think the brave browser was able to grow that fast and that good was also because of this basic attention, token incentive program. So you were able to kind of refer people to use the brave browser and you would get a baat tokens, which were worth something, right? It's a near see 20.
And so I'm a bit on the, I'm not completely convinced that the Opera browser will be able to really get some market share. But nonetheless, I think it's important to play around with different products that could potentially onboard new users into the crypto space. So they've created their own integrated wallet, like you can't go and add meta Mass to it. Yes. That's right. Okay, how is it? How is the wallet? Like in terms of does a display in a tease? Is it like, is it a pretty full featured wallet? It?
It is a pretty full fledged wallet. It what I think is it really interesting. It does have support for different chains. So for example, you can have Bitcoin etherium Solana and one or two other chains are in the works as well, which I thought was really interesting choice of kind of making it multi chain from the beginning on, I think from a ux perspective is it's done really well. But again, I mean if you don't have the sites that could potentially support it it will there be any kind of big you?
Usage for it. That's that's the other question, right? If you cannot, if you can only log in with with metal mask and wallet connect or whatever, then you won't be able to properly use it. Yeah, that's right. It has to almost be compatible, you know, so if you launch it, it looks pretty cool though. I'm going to check this out. Yeah, I've been, I was using the software like you way back in the day. It was always that browser that they were doing Innovative stuff, but I never fully moved over. It wasn't until I think they embraced. I'm not
I don't know who does a rendering engine but there was those browser Wars that were horrible and some stuff would not render properly in the Opera browser. But yeah, cool. I'll check it out. All right, real quick. Where can people find you? I'm at Fresh Faye on Twitter, on the interwebs. John you your new Twitter handle at jpo GMI, so much better.
Whoo.
Taking feedback.
Lovely one. I love the you changed it man. It's so much easier than last time when you were spelling out your full name and everything. I'm a so great to hang with you guys. Awesome to do the show together. Thanks for sharing your insights and let's do it again. Soon as we have fun. Thank
you all.
