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If you want to pump your body,
And expand your mind is only one place to go might find pump with your hosts. Sal de Stefano, Adam, Shaffer and Justin Andrews. You just found the world's number one fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is mine pump. Oh boy. Do we have an episode for you Zu? B on the podcast. He's a hip-hop artist, oxford-educated brilliant, brilliant person, also social commentator, political commentator, very smart.
Gentleman, very smart, man. Millions of followers on social media because of his commentary quite controversial at time, but almost always logical and linear thinking. We had fun, having a conversation with sky is actually a three hour podcast. I think one of our longest podcast we've ever done and no subject was off-limits. Literally think of the most controversial subjects you can think of. We talked about that in this podcast and he doesn't pull any punches. It was a lot of fun.
It was controversial. We think you're going to enjoy this episode. This episode is brought to you by some of our sponsors. First one is Element e. Element e is an electrolyte powder that you put in your water, no, artificial sweeteners and it gives you the appropriate level of sodium to power you through your workouts and make you feel amazing. It's great company and check this out right now. Element e is offering our listeners. A free sample pack with any order, so that's eight single-serving packets for free with any order of Element e. Go check them out. Go to drink. LM.
T.com forward slash mind pump. Also, we have a special going on this month with three workout program. Bundles, each one gives you up to nine months of planned workout. So, nine months of work out programming. Each one is $300 or more off. So huge discounts because it's January is when everybody starts to get into fitness. So we want to hook you guys up. Go check these programs, I'll go check out these bundles. There's one for beginners. One for those of you that are intermediate and
One of, for those you that are Advanced go to Maps January.com. If you want to learn more or just sign up, all right, here comes the show. All right, Zippy thanks for coming on the show man. So I want to open with this. So you're you're a young man. You're black. Hip-hop artist for all intents and purposes. Your opinions are very different from what a lot of people would assume, right? People would think always young minority he's in hip-hop. He's going to have these opinions and they're very
Sure, from a lot of people would imagine you having what motivates you, what made you have these opinions? Or why do you think the way you do and how is it
received? Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's a tricky one to answer because I think it's difficult for any of us to know exactly why we are the way we are. And think the way we think guess it's a combination of both nature and nurture, I know for sure, I have a pretty unique personality type its extreme in various dimensions.
Ian's. If you go off the sort of Big Five, personality model, extraordinarily low, in some things and Incredibly high in other things, and I've always been that way. I also grew up in unique circumstances in various ways. So I'm one of, I'm one of five kids. My parents are originally from Nigeria, my family is ebo and I was born in the UK as a lot of people know, I actually grew up in the Middle East. I lived in Saudi Arabia, for 20 years from the age of 10. I went to school there from
According to fifth grade, I was in the American schooling system, which is why I don't even sound British. I've never had a British accent before, but I'm also the only person in my family with this accent, which I seem funny when I was 11 years old, I went to boarding school in UK. So from the age of 11, I was traveling internationally by myself back and forth between Saudi Arabia, and the UK multiple times per year. I was in boarding school for seven years, went to two different schools, do really well in school, got into Oxford University, studied, computer science. There, that's also where I began my music career.
Graduated when I was 20 and then I did Music full time for a year after graduating. And then, I worked in corporate for about three years as a Management Consultant, for one of the big companies and then I, in November 2011, I took the big leap and went and pursued my music career full-time. So, for the past eleven plus years, I've been self-employed and I've just been on this adventure, it just started out with only doing music. Anyone who knew me prior to 2019,
Really would have just known me as a musician and as an artist. And then in the past four years, I've added all these additional strings to the bow. My podcast, real talk with zubi, I've written and released two books. Now, I've been doing public speaking events around the world just social media commentary, socio-political cultural stuff. A lot of people know me for that. Now, just for speaking out, on all these various issues, and, yeah, it's been, it's been quite a journey. So, looping back around to the original question, I think it's just this
Combination of my my upbringing and experience is my personality type and then the way just the way I view the world, I guess I've just always had a different angle of how I view certain things compared to how most people
do. Yeah. So so did you did you? So you didn't feel one particular way and then have a moment that meant that made you shift know, you've always kind of questioned and kind of went counter or just look for things for
yourself. I don't even know if it's counter because
Is what's funny is?
Some people consider me, controversial or polarizing, and I think like 90% of the world agrees with most of my positions. Yeah. So talk about that for a second because you know why, because I think I agree with you, but it
doesn't feel that way. Yeah. It feels like it's 90 the other way, 10% with some of your views.
Well, I think this is something interesting, that's happened, particularly in this age of social media, which is the way you can make a very small minority look like either a majority or a very big.
Minority. So you can have three percent of the population that holds a certain opinion and with the power of the internet in even traditional media, that 3% can be made to look like Fifty or sixty percent. So, the truth is, most people are saying and most people are relatively moderate when it comes to social cultural political views, like there. Aren't that many people who are actually far, right? Or actually far left or full on, you know, like those are rare positions even with all
The what people now call the woke stuff, right? Like what percentage of people are genuinely like hardcore dyed-in-the-wool woke. He's like it's not a big percentage P person. Yeah. It's they exist for sure and I have come across them in person but it's not it's not huge sways of the population. It's not even the sort of typical left-leaning Democratic or labor voter, you know, anything like that but with social media and also with the chilling effect, what can happen is that
Most people stay quiet. I think this is one of the fundamental differences between me and most people is that I won't be quiet, right? I won't just acquiesce and go along to get along if I have something I want to say that is counter to that three percent or whatever. I will say all I will be the one who says, no, a man cannot be a woman. A woman cannot be a man. Women cannot have penises men. Cannot get pregnant. Everyone in the world. Knows this to be true.
Right? 10, 10 years ago no one would have even felt the need to say this because it wasn't Up For Debate but we're living in an age of denial of denial of reality coupled with cowardice. That's probably the best way to put it. So it's not even that most people cannot see through certain things. It's just that most people will not speak up, right? Everybody know, look at the last couple years. Everyone knows that it makes no sense to for someone to wear a mask, as you enter a restaurant and then to sit down take it off.
Eat for two hours with no mask on, stand up, put it back on while garlic goofy, right? There's no, it makes no sense. It's a logical. Everyone is walking around the street or in a forest by yourself or her driving around in a car, by yourself, only with a mat everyone. It makes no sense its silliness, right? But people are doing it and going along with it because, you know, as human beings were very social creatures, right? And so, it makes sense that the greatest fear in the world, next to death is fear of social disapproval. That's the
Sphere. Right? The majority of adults are afraid of public speaking. They're not really afraid of public speaking because we all speak all the time, it's not that you're afraid to talk. It's that you're afraid of looking foolish in front of your peers, you're afraid of tripping up as you walk on stage. You're afraid of saying the wrong thing and looking silly. Right? People say, oh I, I want to start a YouTube channel. I want to write a book. I wanted to start a podcast but, you know, is this and it's the only thing that that holds them back is fear of social disapproval.
All right. They don't want to put up a video and O people leave negative comments or they downvoted or it doesn't get as many views as they want. And so they look silly, all of these things, all the things that people want to do that, they don't majority of the time, it's that fear of social disapproval that holds them back. And it's not even that that something that is inherently bad, it exists for a reason. Right there are no, shame is not a, it's a neutral thing. Right. There are certain things that you should feel shame about her. You should be concerned about social
disapproval. I think I have a
Generally exist because there's value to it as well.
Yeah they are. But there's absolutely value to it but I think that a lot of these basic biological things that are wired in us, they can be triggered and set off by the wrong things. You see what I mean? So we have a natural, it's well, studied for example, that human beings people, we are were more sensitive to negative and to threats. Then we are two positive for example, right? So, if this podcast goes out,
There and 1,000 people leave a positive, comment and five leave - ones, or harsh ones. Those five stick out your not. They're focusing on the thousand of wow. Like, people really like this. It's like, man, why did that guy? Say, why did that guy say that mean thing, you know, you get 2,000 likes and 80 dislikes. What's up with those 80, right? That's how we are. And I think that's because it makes sense to be, you know, we're all timidly built to survive. All right. We're built to survive, were always trying to perceive threats and dangers.
Is and things like that. And now that we live in this very comfortable Society, where let's be honest, like the real dangers of nature or of wildlife or day-to-day survival famine disease, all those type of things would they've mostly been taken care of right. On a day-to-day basis. You were not overly concerned about just Survival, how we going to get our next meal? We don't need to go out and hunt and kill to eat. But I think that but we still have that same wiring. So, I think the things that set off those threat detectors become
More minor and more minor like the the bar keeps on decreasing on what it is that people are so fearful
of. Yeah. So I want to comment on that because just to back you up first off for most of human history if you were ostracized that make you died. Yes. So it's a top fear because there because it was a real risk for your life at have you seen those studies where people in these are funny studies but they're real and there's been people doctor's office where? Yeah, well like people walk into a doctor's office everybody's actors except for the person walking in
Bell will go off. Everybody stand up and sit down after about two or three times the person who's not the actor just follows along. Yep. Or they'll be like an elevator and everybody's lined up in single file facing the wrong way and the person naturally Gets behind everybody it just does the same thing. So I think that proves what you're saying that it's extremely powerful. So along those lines, do you think that this minority of crazy voices is popular because of algorithms and clicks or do you think that there's something more nefarious?
Us. In other words, do you think that people are taking advantage of this fear mechanism that we have for being socially ostracized and are using it to keep everybody out silenced so that this appears to be the the majority. And if that's the case, then why? Why is it also? How much of it do you think is artificially
engineered? Mmm. So, I think this stuff, I mean, if you really want to go deep, it goes back, many many decades. There's been What's called the Long March through the institution's. So, you know, if you really want to go to the origins of what again, like, what people now.
All woke is a more cultural Marxism or these sort of honestly feel far left ideas which have now got a grasp of of course, Academia but also in entertainment some elements of big Tech other institutions. A lot of this has been intentionally planned for many decades since far many, many decades before I was born. If you could go back to the to the Frankfurt School. So these are not new
new ideas. But what's happened in the past decade? As they've gone more mainstream and then so yes, it is intentional because there are small elements out there who want to upend and overturn many elements of society and kind of flipped the hierarchy from what they currently perceive it to be. And then there's a lot of people who would fall kind of into the useful idiot category, where it's not like oh they're really deep on all of these.
Aries. And they've really read up on Marxism and post-modernism and the origins of gender ideology and queer Theory. All of these things are you could name, certain people who are The Architects of these ideas, and they've never even heard of them, but they're still there still espousing and mirroring the ideas that they got in college or whatever it is. So in this situation, they're sort of acting like useful idiots, so it's not a new, these ideas are not new. They've just
Penetrated and gone beyond the fringes of Academia, very much in the past decade which is why if you talk to most people regardless even even where they sit politically a lot of people would say that around somewhere between 2011 and 2013. It's like we entered there was some kind of break and we entered some new weird reality where like you know prior to 2010 in 2010. Some of the conversations that are now being had in have been had over the last few years. These were things that weren't Up For Debate these
Aren't things that people were saying or questioning and so
on. That's what I started getting weird. And that's when
it really started getting weird. Right. I think that's when it tilted, I'd say 2012. Yeah, that's why I often say that in the past decade, that's when clown world Mayan calendar was right? Essentially? Yes. Now, some moderates would say so what leave me alone, why is it such a big deal? Why do you think it is? It is so important that we speak up or do you. And and or do you believe it's these are dangerous ideas.
Yeah, exactly. It's if the ideas are destructive and dangerous and harmful to people on an individual and a societal level, which I would absolutely argue that these woke ideas are, I don't even like that word woke. I just there's not really a better term for it that people are going to easily understand that encapsulates all these different ideas, right? So this encapsulates, the gender Theory which includes some
Modern Notions of transgenderism this includes what people would call critical race Theory and ways of viewing you know, race in society. Right? Someone who believes this idea, will look at a room like this and automatically they're making all sorts of judgments and aspersions based on all of our skin color, right? They already know racism is happening. They're just trying to work out what's happening, right? Right like no matter what you doing it right now, right? If you say that, you're not racist, they want. Then that's, that's evidence that you are a racist.
Can I? Yeah, you can't win if you like, okay. No matter what you do, if you're white, right? If you say your, If you deny it, then that's evidence of your racism, right? That's your your white fragility or whatever nonsense, they call it. If I say that I don't typically experienced racism. Or that like, I don't see people that right there, they all say that. Oh, I'm you know, that's my internalized racism, or now you can be a black white supremacist. So maybe I'm white supremacist, right? They have all these Goofy.
Number one, Chappelle did that big and everybody thought that was so funny clean out like that. Yeah. Everybody's like, no. You can ask you can
ask. Yeah, right. Yeah. Didn't it just a couple weeks ago, they had the article with a Kanye and, you know, so I'm talking about what was it, multiracial, white supremacy or something and you're just like what on Earth are these people talking about. So yeah all those ideas, some of the more extreme Notions of you know modern-day third or fourth wave, feminism are encapsulated in those ideas so you know it really is just cultural Marxism. It's instead
View of the bourgeoisie and the proletariat. You're you, you're splitting it along typically race, sexuality and gender. That's why those are the three sort of categories that are always going with that way. But I to me, all the above are destructive, that's why it's a problem. Because these are number one, it's false. Right? Number one, the ideas are not there. They're just false, yes, okay, the idea that all white people are racist, that's false.
Right. This is one of their tenants and it's literally a 10, but I'm like that if that is false, the ideal, all black people are best, it's complete bollocks, right? My britishness is slipping away, right? But it, but it, but it's false, it's false and also its divisive in damaging, right? If you're, if you're regardless of what skin color you are, or whether you're a man, or a woman, or you're straight, or you're gay, or whatever, if you're walking around, either believing that you are just by dint of who you are, you're an oppressor, right? And that you're somehow,
Seeing other people down and you need to somehow atone for sins, you haven't committed or whatever. Like that's not healthy, that's not positive. If you're a black person or you're a woman or you're this, you're that and you're supposed to walk around all day believing that your repressed and people are against you and you're actually kind of a second class Citizen and all of these things and you know that it creates animosity between people, right? You don't want to walk around all day, hung up on your identity and people's immutable.
Fix all that stuff. It's it's not accurate and it's not helpful and I think you can you can genuinely see the division that it causes. You can see the division when you've got people. Again, it's it's weird because these are kind of I call it Neo, I call it Neo racism because actually they're just slightly flipping ideas, that people had a century
plus, it's still collectivism, it's all
collectibles. It is it still going back to? Oh no. Like these are the type of people who will tell you that it's racist to be colorblind.
Right that if you say something like oh you know what, I don't really see race. Like I don't judge people that way or whatever they like, oh no, that's a problem. That's like, why do you this, isn't this? What the KKK were pushing, right? That you have to split people into, you know, the whites and the non-whites and treat people differently based on this and you've got people who are pushing for segregated graduations and having different dorm rooms for different ethnicities. And so I'm just like that is not psychotic. Strangely moved away from just basing it off of your character.
Yeah, it's going full circle, it's like Pac-Man, you know, if you go all the way to the far, right of the screen you pop back up on the far left. If you go on the far left you pop back up on the couch what a great analogy. Yeah.
So I have a theory as to what may be driving all of this and really if you if you really want to look at evidence for this if you look at the Soviet Union and how they effectively manipulated their people, a lot of what they did is they would say one thing and they would counter it and then they would say something
Constantly getting people to the point where they didn't know what was right or wrong and they waited for their leaders to tell them what to think. And I feel like if they destabilize us enough to, this is true. Then tomorrow, this is not true. This word means that no tomorrow. Now, it means that eventually we are, we have no solid footing. We hate each other. We don't necessarily know why. We have no fault. Solid footing makes us very easily. Manipulated,
what university what university was that?
It just came out with two days ago with field. You can't. They're gonna take the old is racist. Oh yeah. Did you see that the word field? Yeah. The word field is being removed from a USC. Yeah. Well, yeah. It was a USC. Yeah. They'll remove the word against a football field anymore. Yeah. We haven't to call it yet. I don't even know. What do we go with this? Redefining, let me guess this is because like field Harkens back to Plantation slavery. Have some coffee - yeah.
But I do feel like if they do this and they do this, well enough, we're just eat, we're very easily manipulated and so it's like let's get them all is do you agree? Does I 100% it's divide and conquer.
It's not again. It's nothing new. Which by the way what I didn't understand it, I just like literally heard someone to have this conversation is that that's actually human nature like that. We come out with this desire to try and coordinate. We actually have to fight against that not happening. So the people that have this idea of ol just you know oh it's not a big deal, leave it alone.
Like, you don't realize it. If you just leave it alone and we just go to what's natural to us tyranny. It is to congruence. Yeah, it is. And it's tribalism, you know, something I think about a lot is just the human nature, is just what it is, right? So first of all,
Number one. History is still happening, right? We have an idea of history is in the past. Like we're done with history, his like we're living in the history of the future right now. Okay? So history is not done and modern people have said this before, we only have two advantages over our ancestors. That's it, biologically, natural urges, all that stuff. We are the same where the same. What were the same as our great-grandparents our great-great-grandparents
where the seven deadly sins are just as applicable today and where thousands of years ago, the
only two advantages we have. Are we now?
One, we have better Tech, we have better stuff right? We literally have better technology these microphones medical stuff, food, stuff. All the tech that we have, we have better stuff. Number two is we have access to the past. We know what happened in the past, so there are even certain ideas. How do you know, certain ideas are bad that we were just discussing because we've done that before. How do we know racial segregation is not good because it's been tried. How do we know slavery's bad idea? Beyond like, you know, an
Something in our Earth. It's been tried for thousands of years. This is what it led to. How do we know it's bad to judge people and treat people differently based off immutable characteristics because most of human history that's actually what was done and it's still happening in some parts of the world and it leads to misery at the worst, it leads to fucking genocide. Okay, so let's not be. So in the words of c.s. Lewis, let's not have so much chronological snobbery and think that we're so far ahead of all these people and whatever, like you can see how quickly people
Back to tribalism, remember, just last year or the year before, where it was more, it was more 2021, it where it peaked, when the whole vaccinated versus unvaccinated division, right there. The way that the media just managed to split people into into a binary, binary tribes that no one had ever even thought of before, we've had vaccines our entire lives, you know, that's the first time I've seen that something like that, huh? Go and divide family and friends, it happened in my own family and
It's like millions and I would consider myself a very like non-political type of person and so many of my family and friends like that and it divided us, it's crazy millions of people across the globe that happened, millions of families and friendship groups disrupted by that. Right? No one ever lost a friend over whether or not someone took a flu shot. No, any or any? I think of all the vaccines that are available. No, no one ever gave a crap. I don't even no one ever even knew. Whatever it wasn't common place to even ask somebody. Oh, did you?
You taste like whatever who cares? That's your business that's private and the media very intentionally very intentionally and the politicians they they managed to just split people so that people's own Sons. Daughters brothers, sisters friends. They're now looking at each other ask you or don't want don't want to be near each other based off of this thing complete siop complete psyop, right? But that shows the power of it. So one thing about human human nature is we have a tendency to be tribal
And again, tribalism just like we were talking with social disapproval. It's not something that's inherently bad, right? Of course, there's positive positives to tribalism. If you've, if you've got a family, right, there's a you've you feel tribal about your
family? I trust people. I know more than people. I don't absolutely everybody
everybody does right? Everybody does your nation? You typically are going to care about your country, or even your city, or your state more than doesn't mean you don't care about the rest. But we have all that you know, in-group out-group, in-group out-group.
If you're a member of a religion or a certain Community or whatever, you're going to feel more, you know, Affinity towards people within that to some degree. And that's fine. So I think the solution isn't that. I don't think you can't get rid of tribalism, it's there but to me the solution is you make you make the tent as big as possible, right? So instead of focusing on all the, you know, the minutiae of the things that people have different, which is infinite. It's all right. Well, what do we all have in common? Let's go.
Level. Let's go up a level, right? So when people are dividing along, all these things, it could be race, it could be ethnicity, it could be gender, it could be religion, it could be politics, it could be whatever. If you go up a level or two, that's where you always find the commonality, right? So something something that's interesting to me, one of the differences between the UK and us, for example, is say, on the topic of race, I don't like talking about racial stuff, but I think this is interesting and important. So in the UK you never would
You almost never hear the term, white British black, British Asian British, just Brew. It doesn't it just sounds weird. Doesn't even sound weird. If someone said I was losing. He's a black Brit, or is he like, it sounds weird. But in the state's black American African American Asian American White America. Like, these are terms that you hear what a good point, all the time, and as an outsider, that's something that strikes me. I'm like that's weird. Why do they do that? And I guess I know some of the answer because there's historical reasons for it.
I'm kind of like your All-American. Like why the prefix is? Why why why why the obsession with the prefixes? If you just drop that and it's just like American then automatically even in terminology right here. It bonds everyone I'm like well you're all your All-American, your old country may like you're all from the same place. Like why used why you going so granular to the point where okay, now you've got all these other than you you're creating new lines of fracturing, right? And now you've got, I don't know now that because that's what they do with all the intersections.
Ality stuff. Well, again, I don't like the idea because it's like, oh well as a black lesbian female vaccinated expert, like, whatever. Like, you can't, you just be just just be who you are. Yeah, I think need
to. I think ideas are probably a good way. Like thoughts behaviors ideas beliefs, probably a better way to put people together. You know, it's along those lines America in the, you know, 19th century and early 20th century. I mean, to come here.
Really you just showed up. If you just showed up you were accepted and we still are a country of immigrants, but boy back then were we massive country of immigrants most coming from Europe and just to preface. A lot of people think that oh they're all white. Okay, Italians Germans French Irish were, I mean they were not. They didn't consider each themselves the same at all. I mean Europe went to war world war twice, you know, over their differences. So they all came over here, super different it.
Aliens Germans Irish. Let me very very different, but they had, they had ideas that were the same. And the ideas were, we're all here for freedom and liberty, we all want opportunity. I know my family came here for that for that seems I'm the product of immigrants. So they all bonded over this idea of freedom, and liberty, and they built businesses and worked with each other. And, you know, here's the word, tolerated, actually tolerate each other pretty well. Yeah, and they did pretty damn well as a result, we grew.
All of a sudden it's become this like divide instead of unite, it's very strange to me. It's weird how we've done it and then back to the behavior call, you know. Commentary. It is true that we have natural behaviors but what makes us human is our ability to consciously. Look at our behaviors and modify them. I mean I work in the fitness space. I've worked in Fitness for over two decades like our natural tendency is to overeat, not move, right? But we know better and so,
So in modern societies, you know, those of us who are more conscious about it, move more and eat healthier because if we just listen to our behaviors, we would have be sick and unhealthy. So I wanted to touch on that because people make the nature argument and although there's some truth in there. There's lots of Truth in the fact that we become enlightened that we can look at things and modify them. I think that's really
important. Yeah, absolutely. And look if you're an adult even as a child, we constantly have to fight human.
Nature, right? We have to fight human nature and we have to fight our own individual Nature's, right? We all have our own set of personality traits with flaws. We have our proclivities, the things that, you know, were some people have quite addictive personalities, right? You know, if you have that, you're quite prone to becoming addicted to things. Some people are more prone to laziness while some people are more conscientious. We all have these different things and I think part of becoming a functional adult,
Is like, like you said, not just not just saying, oh well I have this natural urge, so I just indulge every natural urge. I mean, if you do that, you're going to be a, you're going to be a terrible person. You're certainly not going to be not going to be successful. So I think it's a matter of just recognizing, okay, this this tendency exists both Within Myself and within other people knowing that, how do I become, you know, conscious of it and then what's the best way?
The best way forward, for example, if you're someone who, you know, your, I'd say, I have a personality, that's somewhat addictive. I think I have a tendency to, you know, form habits pretty quickly and get addicted to things. And I've used that very much to my success to become addicted to things that are positive, right? So completely just their stuff. I won't even touch all of that stuff, right? But then cool. I'm addicted to going to the gym and exercising. I've been doing that for two decades at this point. It's like
Like, as natural as brushing my teeth, I enjoy the work that I do. I enjoy, you know, you can spin a lot of things into something positive, right? So I think that's the best way to. I think that's the best way to do it and it looks different for different people, but I think look fundamentally, you're not going to. You can how to put it. I don't think you're. I don't think we can fundamentally change human nature. It's just what it is. But we can change the how conscious
Our of it and how we approach things, both individually and collectively in order to keep certain things in check.
I want to ask you about Fitness, and I know you're a big Fitness. Guy fact, that's how somewhat along the lines of Fitness. That's how you kind of got popular, because it was just
definitely record, which was
absolutely. I was brilliant because it was brilliant. I never thought I would see these ideas, you know? And again, using the term. Whoa.
Coke ideas, permeate Myspace Fitness. I never thought that and yet it is nothing is safe. I nothing is safe. I've seen now article saying that lifting weights is toxic masculinity that the you know, the I just shared a article the other day that sort from White Supriya, the rate, the white supremacist roots of Jim's exercises of exercise. Body acceptance movement, which doesn't is not real body acceptance, they've morphed into something different.
How do you feel about because you've been working out for a long time? Yeah. Were you as surprised as I was when I saw it coming to my space I was like what?
No well no because I've this stuff's been on my radar from longer than it. It's been on most people's and even before I started to publicly speak out on some of this stuff, I was talking about it privately with people for
Five six years. So as we said was certainly from the early 2010's. And so I saw the trajectory that these ideas were going in and I saw that they were going to, I don't know. Say, for example, even something goofy like the whole preferred pronouns thing or the made-up, genders think. I mean, I I saw there, I saw that happening like, 2013 really solved. Well, yeah. And I was like, this thing is going to become a thing, right? Even with the deadlift that I did,
So, I remember having conversations with people back in 2016 2017, talking about this saying that there's going to be a whole issue with males identifying his feet as women and competing in female sports and crushing I was saying this back in 2016, 2017. It doesn't sound that long ago and a lot of people would like, look at me weird. And be like, come on dude, like weird. That's not going to happen. That's a crazy. Yeah, I like it, sounded goofy. Even just like, I mean, it is Goofy, but it sounded. Nah, come on, man. Like Pete, like people want, except that one.
I was like, dude it's gonna it's gonna happen. Like it's already happening in certain places and you're just not seeing it, it's not mainstream yet. And then I mean that deadlift video I did I was four years ago that was four years ago and even when I did that in February twenty nineteen eight was on some people's radar, but not to the level that it is say. Now now, people are more aware of the fact that this is happening, and it's even happening. You like these, you've got dudes, winning, female beauty, pageants, and all of these other things that are happening
Happening. And so now it's sort of hit a mainstream Consciousness but I think that if you see such things early it's quite easy to see where they're going. So I knew that these ideas. They're not going to just stay within Academia or entertainment is going to get into every single thing. It's in the military, it's in the fitness world, it's in the Science World, it's in. It's in everything to use the term. Gad sad would use know he calls them parasitic. Yeah, parasitic right mind. Mind virus is
And that's how they spread. And I think they also spread because there is something I think there's a lot of reasons. I think the fact that Society is much more, secular is a massive factor and how these things are able to spread because to some degree, they act as a substitute for traditional religion to a lot of people
will you worship something? So if we don't worship God, you're going to worship. Yeah,
I believe human beings.
Are one of the strongest conclusions I've come to in the past few years is truly that I believe human beings are inherently religious. I always lean to think that. That is true now. I'm like, I absolutely believe that to be true and you that that religious urge can be supplanted by lots of different ideas and ideologies and people can become religious and zealous over many different things, which is really what we're seeing. But I think that's a, I think that's a factor. I think also that
it appeals to a lot of people's emotions and feelings and people do want to have a sense of morality and right and wrong and in-group and out-group and have some type of idea of of an enemy. And I also think that it appeals because what was the last point? I was going to was the last point. I was going to make there.
Slipped my mind. No, welcome to explain. What you mean by humans are inherently religious.
Yeah, what I mean is that
Naturally. Okay, even if even if you just think of it sort of pragmatically.
Human beings every person, especially as you grow into an adult hood or as you are an adult. There are certain things that you are going to seek and want
These include purpose, meaning a sense of morality a sense of community, some guidance and ethics on, you know, what is what is, right? And what is wrong. We've already talked about the fact that there are tribalistic elements and so on, and for most people around the world, even still most people religion answers, all of these things.
Right. It provides. Meaning provides purpose. It tells you how you should live your life. What rules you should go by. Of course, it gives you a sense of community whether you're Jewish or your Hindu or Christian or Muslim. You've got a, you've got your community there, you've got your guidelines and it offers answers and explanations for many things in the world. Right? So science is cool but there's a lot of stuff that no matter how advanced science gets
You can't answer. Science is largely a moral, it's not immoral. It's just it explains how things are. It's supposed to be a
moral. Yeah it's supposed to be
I'm talking about actual science, not the science which is now turning into a secular religion scientism. Yeah, scientism, right. And so I think that look whether someone believes in
If someone if someone is a theist and believes in God, you're going to believe that a the religious urge is just hardwired in human beings because we are from God and created in His image. But even from a, I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not an atheist, but even if you were a totally atheistic, secular person who just thinks, it's just, you know, we're just on this spinning Rock flying around the Sun and we've just evolved over all these years. The truth would be even then.
You've-you've. In that case you, we've evolved to be religious. Why are billions of people all around the world? You look throughout history. Most people have always been religious, most countries, most tribes, most groups have had really different different religious beliefs in a way. So even if you took that Hardline evolutionary perspective, you it's still easy to conclude. Okay. Well there's clearly a proclivity towards religion, right? And maybe there were
Societies that rejected this in the past but they're not, they're not around in this time and maybe there's a reason for that. So I don't think you can really get away from that from that urge. And something that is interesting is even with people who are more secular or consider themselves atheist and so on, they're still looking for all those aforementioned things. Maybe some people want to go and sit on a mountain and meditate. Maybe they want to do psychedelics, maybe they wanted, but they want to maybe they won't you.
The term God. But they're trying to get closer to the universe or to the source or to whatever it is right. That what social? Yeah. Yeah. I like it does. There's different ways but it's so fascinating to me that you can't, it's interesting because so many people are rejecting tradition traditional religion or trying to move this way, trying to move away from it and you still see those just reframe it. Yeah, you still see those same religious urges and impulses. Like when I look at the hardcore will keys.
I'm like, that is a secular religion. Like, it's it if you look at the way, the people who were like we're are really into the covid stuff, right? What I call Branch Davidians like it. Yes, it's a, it's a, it's a religious thing, it's zealous, right. There are there more religious than the average religious person in many ways, right? If you don't take their beloved vaccine, like they won't even sit in the same room with you. Right. I'll sit in a room with someone who's like unbaptized know
Problem. Yeah. Right like but imagine if you know, I'm actually know that person's, you know, they're not baptized that. I can we can't even hang, we can't even talk whatever and so they're taking it too.
Here's another thing, I, I believe, I believe that zealotry is a personality trait and you can kind of run different software on it. So when I see those type of people, I think these are the people who would have been, you know, a few hundred years ago, they'd be the ones, you know, calling people out to be witches and wanting to bring them in the steak or whatever. I because they have that overzealous personality agreed. It's not that it's not that Rosella tree comes from the ideology or the religion or whatever. I just think some people have that personality
Great and it leans, it leans more towards authoritarianism and they like to be holier than thou and want to tell other people what to do. And absolutely, you got people who do that under the basis of religion. You have people who do that under the basis of politics. You've even got people even with diet, right? You have people who are you kidding me? It's like, man. Like we
know think you don't bring up religion politics or died because, you know, it's funny. So because we make choices, you know, every decision you make
Make is a choice as a human were conscious of her choices. So I wore these shoes because they're better than another pair of shoes. I have for today or I take a laugh because that's a better direction and, you know, taking it, whatever ultimately you have a Top Value and that is what you end up worshipping. So that's so, because we are hierarchical creatures, we make choices, we don't just act, you know, through Instinct. We actually make choices. That means at the top as a Top Value, that's what you end up worshiping, whether you're conscious of it or not. And there's one thing that all told,
Latarian regimes and cultures for all human. History is one thing. They all have in common either, they get rid of God so that they can replace God or they become God and they say, I am your God. That's one thing. You'll notice. So you look at like this is why they get rid of the church or they oppress people who believe in, you know, a religion or whatever. Because if you believe in that this God is your God. Then you can't possibly worship, you know, the regime. Yes. So for
For this is one of the reasons I think that this is exploding. I agree with you, it's because we're so secular and so, we're left floating and wandering. It's very easy to plug in something else. Whether it's done on purpose or we just, you know, we interviewed Bishop Baron a while back and he said, historically, he said, if you don't worship God, you tend to worship money power, pleasure, or honor, which can also be Fame. And if you look around, it's makes total sense. This is what we end up just through our actions. What we
The poor shipping. So it is very interesting and this was predicted, you know, these these communism was predicted and these types of ideas were predicted by people who weren't even there, weren't even religious. I'm trying to think of his name, popular. Yeah. Yeah. They would say. Look God, God dies. What's going to replace that needs to be. Yeah, really bad.
Yeah, and it makes total sense again and I'm not even making an argument for the existence of God right now. But if you just think about this,
Very logically and pragmatically. You use the term hierarchy, right? So we'd all recognize that we have a hierarchy of values or morality or authority. So for someone who believes in God, the answer as what's at the top of the hierarchy. God, God is above myself above the government above. Any other ideology, whatever God is at the top. Just logically, if you
Remove God. From the top of the hierarchy there still has to be something at the top, right? You can't have a hierarchy with nothing at the top just logically there's got to be something. So what's now at the top oftentimes it's the state as you alluded to earlier, right? That's where statism comes in, just worship of the government and the government ideology, it could be politics, it could be nihilism, it could be headin isn't, it could be, it could just be yourself, right? Okay. Well if there's no, you know,
I'm at the top, right? I say, I decide what morality is, I decide, whatever. And that can also often just go to, all right, I'm just going to seek pleasure if it makes me feel good, that's what I do. And that's Hedonism or you could also just fall into oh, you know what, like it's all. None of it matters and that's more like nihilism. You could end up. We've already talked about statism. You could just, you could fit whatever else, celebrity worship, materialism money worship, it could just be okay. Well, that the top is
money or power, right? That's all that's at the top. So, as long as you know, it's in pursuit of power, it's in pursuit of money, or whatever ethics, morals, whatever that doesn't even matter. And this is also where truth becomes subjective. Right? So I think before again, before about 2012, I don't think I ever heard anyone use the term terms, like his truth. Her truth, Your Truth, my truth. No one used to speak like that there was just the true. No one used to speak like that. Just go back to 2008. No one used to say, oh,
That's her truth. That's his truth. That's, that's new. That's new speak. And so even to me, that's, that's interesting because that's people than just putting okay. Now the truth is subjective, if I feel that it's true and I say that that's my truth. Then not only is it true? But if you question it even or you challenge it or you say wait, hang on. You don't get your own truth then that's now perceived as an attack, right? That's not that's not that's not
Not just you disagreeing with me. That's you denying my existence, I'm sure you guys have heard the phrase, right? Where people say you're trying to erase my existence. You're denying my like, I'm not trying to deny it. Like, if you're a human being like, I'm not, I don't know. I've never denied the existence of em anybody. I'm just saying that. If you know, if one of you right now, we're to say that oh, you know, I'm now a woman. I'm like, and you know, and that's your truth. I'm like, yeah. I mean you can you can believe what you like, but you're not actually a woman and me saying that isn't me.
Trying to attack anyone or be vicious towards anyone. I'm just saying that. That's objectively. Not true. You know, ground as you can be. Now, you can believe that this this table in front of us is a circle. You know, I support your right to believe that could say it's a yellow circle. I'm like that's a brown rectangle or cuboid but you know where we're living in this time where if someone's like not actually it's not a yellow circle, you're being violent. Yeah. Yeah you're being I don't know. Geometry phobic or does it all around
Well, does it all on round? Yes. And are. Are we going to see it soon? I said to her, I feel let me give you some Optimus. Okay. That's how are we gonna get to the bottom of the three of us on the most optimistic at? This is the natural swinger pessimist just swallow harder than ever because the technology and stuff like that. It's coming back. Tell me, do you know why? Before I before I before, I answered, let me let me explain why. I'll also why I think that some of this is happening, I think a lot of it is happening because For the First Time In in the first place, in all of human history, we
We actually truly have.
Equality under the law.
And genuine generally speaking, true social tolerance for the first time ever, right? So if you go back to any any previous decade, let alone Century in this country in any other country, you could very clearly point out laws either laws on the books or social laws that were genuinely discriminatory, or bigoted towards a certain group of people, or groups of people, right? No one.
Would deny that even in a country as great as the USA. I mean, it's only how long of black people even had the right to vote in this country. It's not even a century. No, right. People used to be enslaved, people were not allowed to vote, I'll all sorts of things, right? And keep in mind that the u.s. is like ahead of most countries in terms of resolving these things, right? Slavery was abolished here or and you know before it was in most of the world for thousands of years, human beings were enslaving each other and doing all sorts.
Of awful stuff. So, there was always a fight, right there was always a fight of, like, okay, we need to genuinely have equality under these laws. We need to genuinely tolerate people, you know, what it's wrong, to beat someone up in the street because they are A different race, or because their homosexual or this or this, right? That was even happening in the freaking 90s, right? So we've made all this progress and finally, actually reached a level where, if I'm like, okay, tell me a law that is just outright discriminatory against like a
Up of people, right? You think you'd really struggle right. The closest we got was when they started all the discriminating against the unvaccinated nonsense which is one of the things that made alarmed me so much about it. I was like, what the heck was a huge step backwards? You know, people can't do it. Even when you've got these people Marching for a women's rights or whatever and if someone ask them, okay, like what what rights do you want that? You don't have. Like they can't, they can't answer.
I can tell you a couple. Actually there's laws that in here. I don't know how they are in the UK but here where let's say you're a
Gin or white, you have to score higher. So there's a primitive action laws that are actually disc discriminatory. Those are the only ones that I know of that are on the books, actually, just
ran. Isn't that interesting? Because that's an overcorrection. Yes. Yeah, for what they, you know, proceed to perceive to be the issue.
So you think we're just spoiled and we just need something
to. I think that I think it's, I think it's two things. I think number one that people haven't noticed, right? I think with the constant push for progress and fairness and equality,
Equality and all that, which is a good urge. I think people haven't sort of looked up and gone. Wait, hang on like we did it right like actually like wait we actually have like maybe we should come down and close. Yeah, right. Like there's still that zealotry if I want to fight, I want to fight and then following on from that, I think there are people who are just activists minded, right. Yeah. Particularly on the left side of the aisle and some of them especially the older ones like they have been fighting for all these decades. Right there were part of the Civil Rights fight, they were part of you know this they were part of
That. And so they still there. Looking for the next thing. I think, a Douglas Maria calls this, the st. George and retirement syndrome, right? Looking for dragons to slay. Your still there with your sword looking for the dragons and you know you're swinging around and it's like, actually, you've already slayed them. That's the example. I think we just saw with USC, I think it's got to his point where like we are now actively looking for something that's got to be something else racist. There's got to be something else. That's impressive. Really there find it, you know I'll feel there. It is also before, you know, racism isn't, you know, dead but it's absolutely on life support.
Art right? And they keep jolting it trying to you know bring it back to life because there's so much juice and there's money and you see
smooth what's-his-name small, a he had to hire people to feed him up to say
that committee the committee hate crimes against themselves. That's that's, that's the thing is, that's only one of many. Yeah. Right right. Right. You're crazy. Hey, Miss we know about it, right? Right. It's like like, like it's actually crazy. We're literally you hear about a so-called hate crime. And now I'm like yeah they probably did it to themselves. Right? And if that's happened, people say, oh, that was racist.
Are there was a they find the guy on CCTV, he's there like right there doing it himself or there was that one with a? What's that? What's the Nascar driver? Yes. Oh yeah robot. Yeah, I was gonna say bubba Smollett. I can't remember his Bubba. Yeah. That was that whole thing. You know, they had all that and it turned out it wasn't anything. So you know, I think it's good that people have those urges to want to have the fairness and the
And all that. But I think if you people kind of looked up and had that sense of gratitude and just go okay wait hang on, where were we in 1923? Yeah. In a hundred years, one person's lifetime. You've gone from people don't even freaking lynched KKK run and its peak. The KKK had, I think four million members four million, right? Like, that's isn't that nutty to think? Like there were people in Congress and in like, you know, in government who are openly KKK,
Much. Can you even, like, you can't even fathom that? Now, know that, that sounds unreal to think that there's, there's open KKK members in Congress, and in the police force, and so on. So the strides have been incredible and I think people get so stuck on the past that they can't go. Okay. Like that was F top, that was bad. But yo, look at how much progress has been made in such a quick time. Let's have some grass seed. Is that how you would counter the argument when people trick is they try and lean on, like statistic still like you like like he
Example, this would be like the the gender pay Gap, pay Gap with women as they'll lean on, like statistics to try and prove that it's still going on. It's still
bad. I think they go in with a belief, then they use a statistic, don't break it down and they don't want to look at the Nuance. It justifies their. Oh, this see, it still exists because something
that's important for people to understand is that disparity does not equal discrimination. Oh, so glad you said that your ain't people, people will just look at the statistic and go. Oh, there's a disparity there for
Some type of ism or phobia is taking place, and I'm like, that's the most low resolution version of anything. There's our infinite reasons, what a great point for all sorts of
disparities anybody who understands data and statistics knows that that's a terrible way to break down. Yeah, a number. You don't make a conclusion right out the gate. So you got to figure out what your controls are and what's going on, otherwise you've got nothing.
Yeah. Well, that's how exactly how the gender pay Gap. Unravels? Right? As you start to unpack it and go. Oh well you know you also take in
Actor in that women are pregnant for nine months and that would naturally men go this way. Actually whipping jobs. Like it's value
different things. You know what's interesting about that one? I had a conversation with him when that was real but they were pushing it. Politically, I had a conversation with a friend was like, see, this is what's going on. I said, I asked him, I said, what, why do companies Outsource to other countries will just save money because they could pay less for the same kind of Labor. And I said, well, if women are getting paid less, why don't they just hire women? And there was the look very cost effective. Wait a minute. Yeah, doesn't make any sense.
This is whining. I think these ideas
As they emotionally hijacked people. Yeah and they don't think of it past like five seconds because if something like the gender pay like the fact that that even persists still wide-open being debunk since the 90s. Yeah. And people are still all women are earning 77 cents on the dollar or whatever. And I'm just like, bro, please let how are you? How are you still repeating this? I mean the thing is also, people don't often some people don't apply just common sense. So I had someone who I remember getting in this conversation where there was this music festival happening in the UK was a
Pop Festival. And there was this person on Twitter who he, they had the lineup of the all the performers on the bill. And he blanked out all of the male performers and there were maybe like six or seven female performers out of. I don't know 50 or 60 people performing on the thing and he was like ah right you know, this is evidence of sexism in the music industry and I was like, bro, how many female rappers can you name?
Right? You literally got to like three and was like, um, what? And I'm like, how I was like, hip-hop is like at least 90%, dudes, right? Way. More men are rappers than our female, not because women are not allowed to be rappers. Women have been allowed to wrap for many decades, but, because men and women are different, right? You can look at areas where it's 80, 90 % female-dominated know.
An obvious one Primary School teaching only fast one, right? Because I feel like that's where the best arguments to disrupt that argument. It's like well then what's going on with them?
Why aren't the men getting paid
equally on only fans, what a modeling female models are paid a lot more than models. Yeah and that why? Because of supplies supply and demand right? But it's these things are not. It's funny because they're not hard to understand at all. And what's weird is because just living your
Life even if you don't get into all the studies and the data and all this stuff, if you've lived for 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, whatever even just off your own experiences, you know that men and women are fundamentally different in a lot of ways and one of the most obvious ones is we have different interests, right? I don't know how you can exist in the world and meet thousands and thousands of people and not work out. I mean, even within your own family even if
You have kids if you whatever you recognize okay. Like males and females are are just different. Yeah, sure. There's a lot of overlap and everyone has their own personality. But there's there's fundamental differences and that leads to different choices and different decisions. And I'm of the opinion that not only is this not a problem, it's good right? People get hung up on like the issue of like all trying to get, we need gender balance in this and we I'm like what's wrong with it? Being it. Why do I have to be the same? I'm cool with inequality. Inequality is
Good that's gonna get clear. No no but genuinely in many things what's not good what's not good is unfair discrimination and mistreatment and denial of opportunities. Yes that should not
be able to do what you want. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that everyone's going to want to do the same thing. No.
And God and God forbid. That would be awful. Right? We all we all have siblings, right? Yep. Okay. And you know, you've got children even within the same household. Yeah.
What you do versus what your, what your siblings do, the decisions, you you end up in different
fields, can't even raise my kids. The same. I have to, I have to parent each of my kids differently because they're different if I parented them all the same, I would fail. Yeah, it just doesn't, I
just heard a great comedian said earlier, he was up on stage and he asked all the audience that they had kids, if they had babysitters. And how many of them had actually chose a man? Now, because your, you didn't show you choose a female to babysit. It is not because you're sexist, because you're smart. Yeah.
Here's a deal. I guarantee you if we pull up a video of someone doing something absolutely crazy, it's that risk. Their life, nine out of 10 times, it's a guy
it's gonna be a white guy to its. Yeah.
Without a, without a parachute looking for bigfoot.
Yeah, that's a white, dude. I
mean, but they exist for a reason, one of the easiest examples of what the reason would be is its men are expendable. So we evolve to take stupid risks because a society cannot survive when 50% of its women are gone. But 50% of the men, shit, 90% of men could be gone and the society Will Survive. So, we just evolve this way but I think it's important to differentiate General General differences, but then also there's
Visuals. So it doesn't mean that you can't be a man and be interested in the things that women generally are and vice versa. It just means that generally speaking men tend to do these things, and tend to like things and women tend to like these things. Yes. And if we're going to understand each other, well, the worst ways to understand each other deny that, you know, one of the most effective things I've learned to help me. Communicate with, like, my wife, for example, was understanding some of those differences. I can't talk to my wife, like, she's a guy, she comes.
To me with a problem. She's want me to solve it for her right away. Now, you know, Adam comes to me with a problem. I know why he's coming to me is I give you some ideas, bro. What do I need to do? Yeah, she just wants me to listen to her generally speaking. I read this that, that women generally, they just want you kind of hear them, whereas, man, just kind of want the answers. When I read that I went and communicated that way and it was amazing had I been like one of these people that's like, no, we're also saying that would have caused problems and it's
also funny because women don't like being treated like men. Yeah. Right. So for all this thing of like,
Here's another thing, I'm a fan of treating people fairly. I don't think treating people, everybody equally even make sense, right? Because no one actually does that, right? You don't treat your own family and children and friends. The same way you treat strangers, that would be forced weird, right? But I believe you can treat everyone fairly right. But I think it's interesting because, yeah, people will say all that, but if you actually talk to a woman in the exact same way, you talked to like a guy friend, like they don't, they don't like it, they don't like it. So,
There's always going to be. I just think it's I think we're problematizing a lot of things that just aren't problems. Right. Sometimes even a sometimes I do spots on TV or certain interviews or whatever and I come back up and I'm like, what problem we actually trying to solve here, right? Because you get lost in all these weeds and whatever and I'm like well what's the actual what's the problem? So say for example we were talking about like the gender thing or whatever. So someone will be oh you know, I don't know. Its debt.
Twenty twenty percent of CEOs of big companies or what only 20 percent of the CEOs or female whatever we need to did it at a. And people go into all these things of how can this be addressed now can be fixed, I'm like so what's wrong with that? What's the problem? If 80 percent of CEOs are male and 20% of what is fundamentally the issue
there, right?
Like what why is that bad? Why is that a problem? And people can't answer that because they just see the disparity in there. Like, I'm like, well, you know, 99% of construction workers are male 99% of Sanity, I do.
Sanitation workers and lumber Jackson people under the sewers. Not it's all men doing all these crappy jobs that crab fishing, all these jobs that no one like, no one would want to do and it would sound nutty to be like, oh, we need to get 50%, female representation in these things and no one, no one ever says that. But then on these other types of things, it's like, oh, we need this. We need that. And I'm just like, what are you, what are you trying to solve?
Do you think we've glamorized just, how much money you make to the point where that now is how we look at value and
We've undervalued things like raising your kids or, you know, being maternal or you know those those types of things that we tend to we used to say were feminine, it's like well oh you raise your kids your good? Mom. You should be making a lot of money because that's way more valuable. I think that's crazy. Do you think
there's a problem? I think that's a massive problem and I think it's I think it's quite pathological. In fact, I think that it's so interesting how these conversations are framed. So for example, coming back to the gender pay Gap,
What about the gender time Gap, right? What about how much actual free time you have? What about? How much time? Most fathers wish they had more time with their children and with their family, right? So you could easily spin this thing on its head, right? So they're, they're all, you know, the men are making more, men are making more, you're measuring everything by money, right? Just like, okay, well time is more valuable than money. And if you disagree with that statement, you know, considerably on their density or if you'd, you know, swap places with an 80 year old billionaire.
Right. And you wouldn't especially an 80 year old billionaire with terminal cancer. Absolutely, no. You would not because time is actually more valuable than money, health is more valuable than money as well. So, you could easily say, oh, if I were being ridiculous, I could come up with a, some whole thesis of how men are oppressed by society and by the matriarchy because they don't get to spend as much time with their families and children because they're just these beasts of Burden who are just out there and working and you know, they're more Expendable, they're dying and all these wars and whatever you could easily spin it and come up with a frame that oh actually it's men who are
It's men who were oppressed in in society, right? But I just recognize it as look human beings in general. We all have our challenges. You know, in life is going to throw challenges there are there are challenges that are somewhat unique or totally unique to each sex that does exist, right? But I didn't make it that way. It's just, that biology is biology, right? None of us are ever going to have a period, or get pregnant or give birth or breath beat fruit like we are somewhat detached.
Attachment that we can do our best to empathize and try to understand what that must be, what that must be like. But we're never gonna, we're never going to get it and we're never going to experience it, right? So those are some of the unique things that it that's like that's just the female, you know, the the Beauty and the struggle, right? Like that's the the superpower something that women life comes from women like that's amazing. Everyone on Earth was birthed from a woman. Incredible mothers are amazing. That's it.
It's incredible. Men also have our own unique challenges and burdens that women are never going to totally, totally get right. Some of the some of the duties that we just have in some what some of the pressure on you to perform in your career and to make money and to be able to provide resources and protect them all that stuff to the degree as I met like that. That's a unique that's unique to men, right? Historically whether
Easy or hunting or it's fighting, or is what I like? That's pretty much male domain. Women don't really need to think about that or worry about it. Even, you know, I talked about this the other day on a podcast. I mean a decent-looking woman, even a not so decent. Looking one can live her entire life and never even need to approach like a pro. Ask someone on a date or approach. Someone, they're attracted to that as a man. Like, if you don't do anything, nothing, nothing happens. You have to, you have to initiate, you have.
Approach you have to face rejection. You have to do all of that stuff, you can just, and I'm just going to go to a bar and sit there and look pretty right? It doesn't, it doesn't work. So there there's just these differences and that's, that's just that's fine. These are these aren't things. I'm trying to fix. I'm not here like being a busy, but we need to fix this and we need to fix that and fix that, it's just like no that's just, that's just how it is. You just said something that you we just talked before you got here about a v interested to hear your opinion on this. Like, if you see a problem with this potentially in the future, I think the stats on tender
Sal's, what you probably are. Like, 80 percent of the men, get twenty percent of the women in there. So 20% of the max QT, 20% of men, get 80% accurate. Yeah, of the end, do you foresee that as a potential problem? I mean, this is also the the argument of monogamy and why we evolved to not have these societies where everybody sleeps with everybody because eventually what would it happen is a very small minority would get most all the women then you have all these angry men who can't have sex in can't reproduce.
That end up with war and fight against each other. So we're now actually doing that unintentionally through this new technology to do. You see where that could potentially lead? Yeah, it's funny because it's just, it's just Cycles. As I said before, we're human nature. Doesn't change. All right, we just got the technology has now enabled. It's weird because it's in a way what you're describing that phenomenon is almost like a reversion back many centuries ago to where, you know, top dudes just had little Tara had a
Jerome and they had, you know, all these women multiple wives, concubines whatever. And then, you know, lower class, men are just kind of their struggling or, you know, not not getting or whatever. And we've just kind of come back full circle. Again, in a slightly different slightly different, it's wild when you think of it like that actually I mean that we really are coming back to like the same same way. So what does it lead to I guess? Is the question is like yeah, I think in the long term, I don't it's not positive, it's not positive, I mean it.
Stabilizes Society. It's not by accident that every country and culture.
Decided that marriage and raising children within that, you know, monogamous structure is, is ideal, right? I mean, you don't think in all the thousands and thousands of years, people haven't tried this in all sorts of different evolutionary idea. Means it people have tried all sorts of all sorts of different things. And the one that's like, okay, the one that works and is stable and keep Society, functioning and generally keeps people, happy is okay. One man, one woman, couple up family. Cool, that's the unit, That's the basis of society. And again, in our crew,
No, logical snobbery. Again, people are like nah. I've got a better idea to write letters. I can do that better. Yeah, like we can do this whole thing better level people
like we're so evolved because we do it this way is like you're not evolved it was tried a long time ago
and you know what's so interesting is that you can see how these things actually play out. So it's one thing to be theoretical with ideas and think, okay, well, we could try that, or that might work at that might work. And if you actually even even with how people themselves would pull themselves,
You actually find that the happy people who are let me, not even use the word. Happy people who are genuinely a joyful and content for the most part, of course, there's always exceptions, right? But for the most part, they tend to follow a more traditional path, right? Even with all that, with all the challenges and struggles and whatever that the data shows that come with it. Yeah. Those people do tend to be long term, they're happy, they're more stable, they're less likely to get lost in
no drugs or alcoholism and
vices married, Mary Taylor and more militant heard people with children who are religious. Look at the data they live longer. They're happier. They tend to be sick less. Yes they tend to do better and that's the person that were like demonizing. Hmm. Yeah. You mentioned psyops, a few times was there a turning point for you when you were like oh shit. Okay, this is what's going on. I mean I can tell you there were two for me the second one was what really made me go. Okay this is weird. The first one was watching.
Women fight women when I saw that and I was like okay this is crazy. Everybody's watching. This has got to know that this is crazy. The second one was during the pandemic we had. This was one, newscast was the same newscast. They were literally hammering you in the newscast like all over the news cast, were at the time to stay indoors. Stay six feet away. Don't spread the virus. You can get everybody sick. Switch over to the Floyd the the the George Ford protest, tens of thousands of
People packed together, yelling and spitting on each other and they're like, oh, this is great. This is wonderful by though. And then they say this literally in the newscast, this is in no way contributing to the spread of the virus because they're all vax and I thought no, this was before the vaccine he was just as I thought to myself, first, sure some sigh option is going on. Was there a turning point for you? We like, oh, here we go. This is now I know for sure, man. I
mean not really. I've been how I am for a really long time. He's been
Yeah, like it, I've been how I am for a really long time. There's certain, what happens is things more? Tend to confirm what I already, so if I'm already like so. Okay, take take the whole what I call this game demick going back to February, 20, 20 from the very beginning, February March. I was like, this is weird, is not adding up. This is there were, I had lots of alarm Bells, right? And then when they started the whole two weeks to slow the spread, you know, 15 days what I was like there's no way on Earth. This is going to be two weeks.
People give this in people going to be stuck for months, if not years, but a lot of stuff wasn't wasn't making sense to me right off the bat. And then as it progressed, all that happened was those suspicions were confirmed, right? You get to the summer 2020. They didn't just say that the BLM protests and riots didn't increase the spread, they claim they reduced it. Yeah, so they claim that the Trump rallies and branti lockdown rallies were super spreaders, but the BLM protests reduced this friend like that they actually sent makes.
Restroom. That's right up there with the restaurant logic like here, you could get covid but not here. So there was that and that remember the early stages, they, you know, don't wear masks like masks, yeah, this it's pointless, whatever. And then it flipped to, you know, if you don't wear masks, your grandma killer and this and that and then just like there were so many things and they never explain them. It wasn't like, okay, this this change in narrative is because of this reason, they're just came out. They just they just kept going and kept switching it up and switching it up and
You know, it's been a, it's been a very weird time but you know, I think one thing that's always that's made me question authority. More is actually going to boarding school from the age of 11 because I typically I generally enjoyed boarding school. One thing I really didn't like was rules that were rules just for the sake of it. Yeah, I have no problem with rules. I have no problem with legitimate Authority, but rules should make sense.
And be explainable, right? If a rule exists just because it's the rule, then be logical. Yeah, I have an issue with that. So let me give you a give you an example. So in the first boarding school, I went to this. When I was 11, 12 years old. The first and last 5 minutes of every male had to be in silence.
It's got a big dining hall, hundreds of boys in. They're all eating first and last five minutes had to be in silence. Interesting. Why? Because that's the rule.
Right, because I sat so because they said, so not because if they even give me a bad reason, right? Just give me something that it's not just the process. You said it doesn't even take, but it was just like that's the role in there were multiple things like that where it was just like, that's the rule and if you don't follow it, you you get punished like it's not
logical in trouble, it's just a power. Grab your counter shit and boarding school. You always get in
trouble. No, I was I was I had 12 detentions in seven years. Okay, no, I was very young, I was very non-problematic, good kid. But
Questioned it inside your head though. You're like this bullshit. Yeah, it's like this doesn't this doesn't make sense and you know it's and to my to my parent's credit, that's one thing. They did so many good things but they never had rules that didn't make sense or have a reason, right? So I feel like when I grew up, I had very clear sort of lines and boundaries on certain things in terms of, you know, what's right? And what's wrong? That was very clear but outside of that I'm glad my parents didn't in just like give us tons.
Random rules to follow without a reason for it. I
know human behavior reason for that they'll do that. They do that in the military for certain things because it makes it Prime's you to just listen. Yes. So they'll give you rules that make no sense follow it anyway because you're more likely to follow everything else that they say.
Yeah, and that's not maybe in the military. That's, I guess, I guess. If you're on a battlefield, you don't want people, you know, questioning orders.
I understand that. But in day-to-day life, I would actually argue that's incredibly dangerous total because if you look back at the worst things that have ever happened in history, they didn't happen because majority of people are evil or Wicked, listen, you can make that same argument for that's not good for military either because if the wrong person in power directs, that military to go in a direction that is immoral or not good. That's so it could be just as dangerous and in that situation. Yeah, off Authority. You know if an authority is corrupt and they have that level of compliance, then it's extraordinary,
Be dangerous. It, that's it. Yeah. Look at the look at the Nazis. Look at communism. Look at any sort of, you know, a fascist or hyper authoritarian. And like I said, that's just people, just just following orders, you know? I'm not easy with police, right? I was in Australia last year for, I went there for a month in. Was it September October after you guys all the craziness that they went through? And, you know, it was interesting talking to people there, especially in Melbourne.
In the state of Victoria where they had over 500 Days of lockdowns. And, you know, police were out there on the street fighting people. I met people who'd been, you know, shot by rubber bullets, by police. I met people who've been arrested for protesting Crazy for all this kind of crazy stuff, because they went even further with it all. And I also met a police officer who had actually resigned from from her job, because she was, like, I can't do this, right? What what their commanding me to do to the people. I'm supposed to be protecting. She's just like this is
This is wrong, you know, this is not right. This is not why I decided to be a police officer, so I can go out and fight protesters, who are just protesting to be allowed outside. But yeah, I think we think these are things, we, you know, you always have to be cautious and Vigilant of that authoritarian urge, and that I'm just following orders type of thing. You know, I think with authority, authority should always be. You should always be able to question.
No Authority, right? I'd say that if you're on Authority, whether you know you're running a company or whatever, it is even your parents, right? If you have a rule or something you know you tell your kid not to do and they're like why you know I think there should be a there should be an answer for that right it shouldn't just be because because I said so you know maybe if you're talking to a two-year-old and they can tax, you know, who they're not going to understand something, then that's one thing. But certainly especially as people get older, you need to give people reasons for why things are
like well
Think to comments on that one, is I really think that the pandemic gave these people and when I say these people, I mean people who just want to rule half power or you know, corrupt. I think it gave them a wonderful test period to see how far they could go. How far can we push? How until people say this is crazy. And if they do say, it's crazy, how far can we push until people actually do something about it?
It and I, I think that they were even surprised how far how they could say one thing. It's another thing and the same day and nobody would say anything. Now, you're very versed in history, very smart, obviously highly intelligent mostly grew up in the UK or you, you know, you, lastly live there because now you move around quite a bit. Does something like the Second Amendment here in the u.s. makes sense. Now that you know, all these things is it's that's the one thing that we have here in the US it's quite unique
To the rest of the world and probably the most ridiculed, you go to any European country or anywhere else. The one thing that they'll they'll think is crazy, is how Americans can own guns as freely as we do, you're from the UK, does it seem as crazy to you now? Or does it make? Does it makes kind of sense.
They never, and never seem crazy to me. I've been into a supporter since I was a teenager. Mmm. No, I've always understood the to a, and I think the two ways more important than most Americans. Even realize because I don't think it's just important for America and Americans, I think it's important for the globe.
I think the USA's Second Amendment is a check against Global tyranny. Not just American, not just tyranny with in this country, but globally. And I don't think most Americans recognize that it's actually that it's that deep. And I also think it's funny. The just look at the past Century in Europe. The idea that Europeans can't understand how a government could potentially become tyrannical. That's crazy. You think if there's somewhere in the world where they
They would understand that it would be in Europe. I don't think it's by accident that the USA has never had a, you know, a dictator come to power and or anything even even close to it, right? The to a is a permanent check on that. I think that the fact that certain States certain red States, you know, your Texas is your Florida, is your Tennessee's? I don't know, didn't go as far with some of the c-19 nonsense I think is in
Due to the Second Amendment in such high levels of gun ownership, I think they realized we can't push people past a certain level as you were alluding to earlier where as in many other parts of the world. It's like well what are they going to do about it, right? We can just roll over on them. And I think that here's something that's tricky. I believe that because most people are decent and or at least strive to be. I think it's incredibly difficult for the vast majority of people to
stand. That's a person or a group of people can be genuinely evil. Yeah, right. And could be generally wrong, right? We always want to make excuses for
them. There's always that they wouldn't ever do that
eight. Yeah. Right on different levels. Whether this is, this is governmental in state actors. Or this is even individuals, right? You know, a serial killer, right? As a normal person or someone who goes and wants to shoot hero. Shoot up a school or a mall or something, right? Like we always want to think. Oh, there's
You know, either it's mental health or this thing right where we're trying to find, like something that fits our normal saying, non Psychopathic framework, as to why someone would do something that heinous and the answer, you know, sometimes there are people do evil things, alright? Sometimes the answer is that person is evil. That's why they did it, right? And, and that answer doesn't sit well with most people because you're like, no, no, there's got to be like some
Some other. There's gonna be some law we could pass. Yeah, yeah. But I'm like, yo, you got to recognize even with some of the people in, in power, I'm like, yo, we're not dealing with not saying everyone in power, some type of psychopaths at all. But there is, there are genuinely bad bad people in certain positions who generally do not give a crap about Humanity, like they do not care, it would be interesting to actually see the statistics around people that seek powerful positions like that, like their true underlying motives.
Make the case they're supposed to her to be there. You're gonna get a higher rate of or type of
sociopathic. There's a bias there
guaranteed. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean it's been said before what the and you know anyone who wants to be I don't know. President or prime minister or whatever. Like the fact that you even desire that type of power should probably disqualified. Yeah, from the position because most people don't actually want to have that type of that type of power and authority over.
Over others somebody people lost forward especially yeah I mean why would you be for decades? Like that's what you really really want like to me. That's that's
weird. I want to ask you this because you're you've been working out for a long time. Lift weights you're quite fit. What role do you think Fitness is played in some of the ways that you think and do you think that they're attacking Fitness? Because of how it might affect the way? Somebody thinks or how may be empowered? That makes them feel.
Yeah.
Lutely. Well, I think that something that's really been under attack in. I'd say the modern West in recent years, especially in this past decade are the Notions of personal responsibility and accountability. I think those things have been really under attack and something interesting. I've noticed, is that most people who speak on those issues, to encourage people to get out of the victim narrative, and blaming other people, and blaming systems, and whatever, and put the onus on the individual.
Those people tend to be attacked, right? So however, you frame that message. It's something that's certain elements want to reject or push away from and that shouldn't really be surprising. I think the reason why personal responsibilities considered controversial or why people reject it is fairly simple. I think it's because we don't want to
It's kind of like, removing someone's Alibi, right? If you tell somebody, let's just talk about health, for example, say you're talking about, you know, your body, your physique, you know, whether you're at a healthy body weight, or you're overweight or obese, or whatever it is.
People want would rather that it's not their responsibility, and that they're just the result of social forces, the advertising industry, the food industry genetics, this, that right. That's, that's a lot more comfortable. But disempowering than saying, you know what? It's up to me, what my body looks like for the most part. No, we can't change our facial structures or whatever. But like my actual physique and
And my General Health and well-being, that's up to me, I choose what I eat. All right, no one else is feeding me. I choose whether I exercise, or, I don't, or what I do in the gym or not. Right. So, I'm a big fan of responsibility and accountability, not just because that's what moves the needle, but actually it's empowering, right? Once you get over the, your sort of feelings and emotions, and all that kind of stuff. And it's just, I actually, that's really positive. That means that I could move.
Move. I'm the one steering my own ship. I'm not just a leaf that's blowing around in the wind wherever society and culture goes. I've got control of that. So one reason I love the gym and strength training and working out and have loved it for such a long time, isn't just because of the physical benefits. Also, of course, there's cognitive and mental benefits, but it's also because
You number one, it's all on you, right? It's not even like a team sport, where, you know, you could play the best game of basketball ever, the best game of football, whatever. But if you're, you know, the other teams better weather than you lose know, every time you go in the gym, the weights way, the same right? 45-pound plate is a 45-pound plate. The bars way the same every time. It's, there's no one. It doesn't the gym. The weights, don't care about your race, your gender, your site. Like, they don't, they don't give a crap, it's all its objective, and if you get stronger, you get stronger. If you
You know, Ben you're totally in your completely in control of it. So on one hand that's kind of scary but on the other it's like, well if you take that and you apply that same concept to your business, life, your personal life, your relationships, your career, all of that stuff, then number one, you're going to, you're going to be more, we're going to be more successful, but I'd also say you're going to be, you're going to be happier and you're going to be more content. And you can also own
Sure. You know, you take your else but you also can take credit for your for your wins, your victories, right? You can be proud to say, hey, I built this thing. I created this. It wasn't just like, oh, I got lucky or whatever something goes wrong, as you know, you own it and be like, yeah, cool, I made him. I made a mistake. I made an error and you know, you can pick which path you want, right? You can take the path of our. I'm never gonna accept any type of responsibility or accountability. I'm just a victim. Everything else is the fault of
The patriarchy and white supremacy and fatphobia and this and there's you might come up with all the excuses and all the buzz terms you want, and you can live that way or you can just be like, you know what, I'm an adult. I'm responsible for where I end up in life. We don't choose where we, we certainly don't choose where we start, right? Like the cards you get dealt, we don't know. We don't, you don't, you don't pick your parents. You don't pick what you're? You're born in, you don't pick your country, you don't pick your country, there's tons of stuff. We don't have control over. I would argue that.
Though that in the mod, if you live in the modern day, West I would largely argue that. You know, with salt with view, of course, there's exceptions and caveats. But generally where you end up is
up to you, you won the lottery. If you, if you were born in the West in the most part, if you compare yourself to the rest of the of the world agree, I would argue. I always make this argument. That Fitness is one of the most powerful. Yet most unassuming vehicles for personal growth because you don't know you're necessarily
On a vehicle for personal growth. You think I'm just going to get fit or I just want bigger arms but then along the way you learn like self-acceptance. Like I don't know you've been doing this for a long time but I'm sure at one point you realized you're not going to look like your favorite athlete or bodybuilder. Like I remember as a kid, I realize I'm not gonna look like Arnold no matter what I do, but then I just accepted it and I just kept going anyway, like that's a huge life lesson. So it's not just about being empowered to change things for.
Yourself. It's also accepting what you can't change and that was a huge lesson for me as a kid. So that one in the real world, I can look at a situation and I can see I have some control over this, or I don't. And if I don't accept it, yes. Otherwise we're going to be life is going to suck. We can make this torturous or we can make this, you know, feel a lot better. So that's, that's why I think about Fitness. And I think it is funny how they're painting Fitness. Now, for example, there was some articles talking about how
Jim's are fat phobic and you know, terrible places. The most accepting places on Earth for anybody. Who's overweight is the gym, you've been in jail for a long time, you were working on, for a long time. Tell me, it's not the most accepting place for your sexuality. Race, wait, gender, like you're in there, lifting weights. You're working on next to someone who's working out lifting weights, they can be 80, they could be 12, they could be obese. They could be male, female gays, whatever, you don't care. We're working out.
In the gym. Yeah, and everyone's
trying to better themselves. I mean, after that's actually the most amazing thing about a gym environment is, everyone is literally in there because you are trying to better yourself. And any decent person is never going to knock or take shots at or insult. Someone who is genuinely striving to make themselves better, right? There's a huge difference between someone who weighs 600 pounds and is making every excuse under the book and blaming everything everyone, but themselves on their thing and isn't eating trash and not even exercising or
Versus someone who weighs that same amount and they're trying to get their trying to get their diet in order and they've taken responsibility and they're putting in the effort to get better, right? Those are completely on the surface. Those people may look similar but they're completely different. And here's another thing about it's impossible, it's impossible to significantly least naturally to improve your physique and fitness for the better without also improving your mindset. It's
impossible. Their hand in hand,
their hand in
Even if someone has lost 100 pounds it's not just their body. That's changed. Now they grew as a person, their mind has changed and it has to because you can't lose 100 pounds. Unless for a significant amount of time, consistently you apply certain principles, discipline, perseverance, overcoming obstacles, consistency. You know, all of the things all this, Social Challenges, all the physical, and mental challenges that you have to go through to lose that hundred pounds. That's a lot of body weight to lose, man. Some people
200 300 pounds and you come out, you're the same person, but you're a different person. Same if someone has gained, if a dude, has gone from skinny to jacked, right? Especially if they've done it naturally. You can't do that without becoming a better without becoming a better person like you, you have to and all those ideas. All the all the lessons you learn from the gym. All those same things you apply. If you apply them to anything else, if you apply them to your relationships, if you reply them too.
Your your podcast. If you apply them to visit a great business, whatever then it works. So it's such a great way of just teaching those, she's principles that you can then take in other areas of your life and you just apply it in the same areas and you will get some degree, you'll get some degree
of success. This is why I used to love tricks. I used to love training kids and I still love training. Really old people that really old people because they were so wise. So while I trained them, I would ask him questions and I would just get all this great wisdom and kids because I would see in
Time the growth and the kids just they're just primed to change and grow faster than adults. So I'd have like a remember I'll never forget this. Add this one kid that I trained was 13 super insecure like almost in tears when he hired when his dad hired me because he didn't want to when swing with his friends don't take up a shirt. Yeah so we started training together and through that process he became this confident young man and they started dating. This girl became a trainer eventually became a trainer and it totally changed his life. And it was
Don't be and I didn't think I'm not coaching him on that stuff. All I did was hey last week. You did two push-ups. Hmm, this week you just did 3. Do you know what that means? And he look at me, like know, what does that mean? Like you're not the same person who you see the light bulb go off in his head. He's like, I am not the same person. Like, look what I can do, I can put work and change and then these self-acceptance part is why it's so important is whole body acceptance thing is baloney or at least the way it's been twisted, his real self acceptance. Like when you do this long enough like you have to do a lot of acceptance like you know, I work out. I
Pretty well in it. But I got to accept that I get older, I'm not going to be as strong as I was when I was 30 and 20 years from now. I'm gonna be strong as I am. Now if I want to keep doing it, I better accept the fact that I'm getting older and I better modify what I'm doing and change it according to my lifestyle. So to me part this is one of the reasons why I was so surprising that this strange parasitic mindset was trying to infiltrate the fitness space because I remember thinking to myself all this is going to do is prevent people who don't understand from starting but everybody who's been doing it, you can't touch us.
You cannot go to somebody's been working out for 20 years, you keep dating for self improvement and growth. So of course, we'll
get it. I think it goes back to what we said earlier is just that I think we've gotten to a point where like the education system has influence these kids at such a young age that they come out and they're looking for it even though they have any open, their eyes and realize, oh my God, we're in this amazing time. But they've been educated to look through that lens. Therefore, when they get out into the real world, they look at every situation from that bias of like this, there's got to be some sort of racism has. Got to be some sort of sexism. There's got to be something going on here.
Find it I call it problem at sizing. Yeah. Right problem in sizing looking at everything through the lens of trying to find out what's the problem? What's the disparity? What's the Discrimination? What's the? Let's problematize everything. And that's why that's where they get these really goofy articles from right. So what do you see these articles of like, you know, the dangerous rise of, you know, far right exercise or the rate, their white supremacist roots of, you know, bodybuilding or whatever? Not like these goofy ideas. That's what it comes from.
It's people problem at sizing, right? You're looking at a situation that's completely fine and you're trying to be like, okay, let's there's got to be a problem here. So let me even if I got a scrape the barrel, let's find
out. You know, it's funny about that. But if you want to know that, this is just complete bullshit propaganda. These people who say, the races roots of This Racist, Roots at that. Why don't they ever point to the racist roots of the leftist parties in America? This is where the KKK literally was a Democrat. Was a part of the democratic party or why don't they point to
The
racist roots of Planned Parenthood. The founder of pound primary Hood, was he Genesis? Yes. Who literally thought it would be great if we could wipe out minorities because in her idea they were, you know, not as good. Because the reason why they don't by the way, that doesn't mean that the Democrat party today is racist, that doesnt mean today that Planned Parenthood is you Janice is eugenics, although some people still argue that I would say they are but some people unless I will get to that, some people still argue that it just
it just points that they will pick and choose how they can use propaganda and it never gets reflected back on. This is how, you know, they're not, they're full of crap. So, you know, they're not being genuine.
That's also how, you know, they're both on the same team to them. Yeah. That they both are just taking turns on who's the, who's the evil one on
this side. And we're, you know, behind behind doors were on the same side. And it's really about dividing and conquering fighting cock. That's my opinion. Okay, so what do you? So you said I said, this doesn't mean Planned. Parenthood is still practicing, eugenic Eugenics, or whatever you said.
And I'd argue that. What do you mean by that?
Well, first of all, I would say that
Eugenics is well, we're going here. Okay. So firstly, Eugenics is not gone anywhere. This is the reality of it, no one. No sane person in 2023. Would consider themselves a eugenicist and would have a natural aversion to that term being used. But the truth is that modern Western countries all have eugenic policies.
And that millions of people in our country support Eugenics. Even if they don't call it that have you makes you, so example, give you some examples. Okay, why is there no Down syndrome in Iceland or Denmark? Mmm. Yeah. How did they eliminate Down syndrome quote, unquote?
Now, let's turn technology do it. No, they the
abort, they have over 100 percent of babies with Down Syndrome. Okay? In the UK, the typical abortion limit is twenty four weeks, which is extraordinarily late.
There's no limits. If there is any type of disability that disability could be as light as a cleft palate and cleft lip, right? So if a baby, it's if it's determined to be as a cleft lip in the 34th week, totally legal and fine to aboard that child complete fully, fully viable through 34 weeks that child could live in survive, cleft lip, hardly the most, you know, severe thing, Mary salt and removable. Yeah, I mean, by definition,
That Eugenics right by definition, even even if someone just want to call it, that they might call it a woman's right to choose or reproductive Freedom or reproductive Justice relabeled, they'll relabel it. But those, that's that's Eugenics. Mmm. That's that's literally what it is. I mean, yeah. And people might shy away from that word, but yeah, that's just the, that's just the reality of it. And then if you're talking like Planned Parenthood, I mean, they still push their obviously majority of them. I believe are still located primarily and
Minority communities. They're always pushing the propaganda. Of course they do it under the frame of you know abortion being some type of freedom for you know quote-unquote women of color, hate that term and that you know oh black women need access to abortion and all these. They try to flip it all on its head but ultimately I mean that's the greatest killer of black people in the country by far there's places where there's more
Black babies aborted than born in every given year, which is horrendous. I mean, I'd say even I'd say even for someone who's, you know, position on abortion is, you know, in favor of the rights. I mean, that's that's, you know, an awful
statistic, so you're pro choice but you're no, I'm not, I'm okay, I'm a
load for full full transparency. I'm a very strongly pro-life. Okay, but I'm saying even for someone who is you
No would consider themselves pro-choice. I think they most people would still consider more black babies being aborted than being born year on year in a location is not good. Like that's because it's all right. Yeah, I like there's an upstream problem. They're like what's what's going on? And then even if you look at the numbers, I mean the I'm not American but I know that the Black American population, you know sort of should be higher than it than it is.
But it's essentially been stemmed and, and cut as a result of these policies and things are, things are being pushed. You know, there's a lot of propaganda when it comes to. This particular issue. Crazy amounts of profits might be one of the most propagandized issues in in the world. And so I think that yeah over the decades, people have been pushed and pushed to see this through a certain lens, a simple lens of, you know, a woman's issue rather than a human issue, you know, not a lie.
Life and death issue. But, you know, just something about, you know, Freedom, or Liberty, or medical choices, or Justice, or anything like that. And, and it's not and if you get to the nuts and bolts of it, then, you know, when you have that real discussion, that I find that, people tend to shift more in the pro-life Direction, once they actually have the information and they really really think about it Beyond The Buzz words and the
euphemisms. I think it's I think it's Andrew Schultz, he's a comedian. He makes he does this bit which is hilarious. She goes I you know, I definitely am pro-choice.
But you're killing a baby and so like everybody first, they cheer and afterwards, like ahh, and I think you can be objective. You could be pro-choice, but you can also say well yeah, we're definitely killing a human or the potential for human. I do think that the that if we were to reach our Pinnacle of peace and prosperity and you know our potential we would value human life. So much that even the potential for human life would be
Or if you want to consider that the potential would be totally cherished.
That's it's a human life with potential. Not a potential human life.
Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, you know, but I, I do think that the it's very complicated in the sense that there's a strong market demand. Yes. And like, what would we do? Because I think, you know, the black market for that would be so terrible in danger especially now with the demand being so high. Such a complicated
issue. I think, you know, the, I'm kind of glad you brought
Add that up because the truth is, I think the real adult conversation of this can kind of happen. It can happen on multiple levels, but I think that by the time you're talking about the issue of abortion.
Something has already gone wrong Upstream.
Right. Something's already gone. Very wrong, Upstream on augen on an individual level, and on a general level, right? You're talking about market demand. Yeah. Right. So, if there's a demand for, how many abortions are in the USA, every year, I think it's between 700,000 in a million per year, right? What is going on Upstream, socially and culturally where that is the situation, right? And it's the again, it's increased secularization its promotion of promiscuity.
It's certain social cultural ideas that have been pushed so hard over the decades, where because look, let's be real. We all we all know where babies come from, right? We're not living in some Dark Ages where it's like, okay, we don't know. Oh, do women just sort of randomly get paid is like, look, we know. We know what happened. Yes, Riley, there's something Upstream that that's happened except right, you know, we have access to, I believe there's over 40 different forms of birth control and contraception. There's not getting hot.
Getting pregnant or not getting someone. Pregnant is not it's not rocket science, right? Like we know how these things work. We know how they can be prevented and ways without you know massive ethical issues and so on. Yet people are acting as if that's not the case. Again, it's the denial of responsibility and accountability. And I would say that the attitude, the mod, This Modern approach towards abortion is kind of like the ultimate example of this outright denial of
Responsibility and accountability. It's just like, okay, well, even if it means killing the most innocent
You know member of our species. Lets you know let's just hide it. Hide it. Hide it under the hide it under the rug right? Just hide it under the rug this thing has happened and it just just just get rid of it. It's just just you know just hide it away and use this euphemism and people are going to kind of think it's kind of think it's okay. And I think that's I think that's gross, I'll be real be real with you guys. There's no I think this particular issue is the greatest blight on
Society, I would go that far. I think this is the great just like you know for all those thousands of years where you know I imagine that during even during the days of slavery. Right? Even here in the u.s.a. like the USA was still like you know one of the most Progressive and you know, so-called liberal countries and so on. Right people at that time would have thought like you cool, like we're Advanced we've got great technology where to, but you just have this blight, right? You've still got
people who are enslaved and working in fields and being discreet. Like it's this ugly underbelly that that's there and it might seem on a surface level. Like everything is things are cool, things are fine, but then there's this kind of thing going on underneath and people don't really want to touch it or approach it because it's kind of it's not it's not very popular. I feel like abortion is very much that issue. It's not something like you sort of see or conscious of day-to-day or whatever or really think about, but it's kind of just, as I said a million a year just in this country.
Million a year. Yeah, right it's wild to me and it's the there's regardless of where you stand the inconsistencies. On one side are very strange. Like yes, if we sent a probe to Mars and found cells that were alive, we would come back and say there's life. Absolutely found life on Mars. Yeah. Okay, if a pregnant woman, gets hit by a drunk driver, double homicide, it's a double homicide. So this is very strange, there's no consistency with that and that's the part that really tripped me.
Now and this is part of why I'm pro-life because it's a coherent position, right? So we know that, look everything is either alive dead or inanimate, right? We know that a human baby in a womb is a human baby in a womb. Right? With women, women post up their scans 12 weeks or no one, no one's ever attended a fetus shower. No one's ever asked a pregnant woman. How her fetus or blastocyst or embryo is doing
by the way?
That is clear political like they change they change towards
right? You know people ask when is the baby due if a pregnant woman is drinking alcohol. People are like, that's that's bad. Why is it bad? Because it's harming the baby. Right? So there's people are tend to be weirdly. The pro-life consistent position is very consistent, right? It's consistent. It's simple, it's not complicated. It's this is an, this is a, an innocent human life and it's
morally wrong to intentionally terminate, an innocent human life, regardless of the age, regardless of the size, regardless of the location, that that's the position, you know, so-called pro-choice arguments, there's like a hundred different ones, right? Some people will deny the humanity. Some people will say, okay, well, eight weeks. Some people says, 12 weeks. This person's is 15. This person has 20, this person is 24, this person, says any type B. It's not, it's not coherent because you have to keep moving the goal.
All posts and using using euphemisms in order to get around either the human part or the killing
part. Yeah. I think we know in her inherently. That's why we know and nobody wants to say, I'm not feeling it human. No, I think we know. And that's why we do it or that's why we accept the verbiage that comes out us politically like fetus, like it's a right. It's, you know, I think that's why I think if we wanted to really
Because it's very important to have this conversation without talking about the root of some of these. And I think two things would make a big difference. I think one is and this doesn't make any sense. Actually makes sense to me when you think they want to keep this a wedge issue but one there's no reason why birth control shouldn't be available over the counter. There's no reason you could be over the counter, is it Norma cyst? No gotta go to get a prescription, should be over the counter so girl could go get birth control. Shouldn't be a problem. That's one. The second thing is they think Society has done such a media
Mm. That's such an effective job at making having kids look like a burden and this sucks. And oh my God, you all your life is over. Yeah, you can't go out and party. You can't do what you want. Everything's ruined like, it's crazy to me. I have kids. It's hard. It's expensive. I wouldn't trade them for anything good. It's the most meaningful, amazing purposeful thing I've ever done in my entire life but we're not sold that we're told that if you're a man oh well now you got kids. Life's over silver
You can't go. Oh, oh, oh, you're a prey. If you're a woman, you got kids, you were pressed. These children are oppressing. You. I feel like if we valued having children the right way, like, it used to be a man's Glory was how many kids he had man would go ahead. How many children you have? Well, I got 15 kids. Wow, Brad, you know, I feel like that plays a big role
too, and not even like, we're not talking. We're talking a few Decades of Sighs. Yeah, this is the crazy part. All right, we're not talking about these attitudes. It was really a 60s from what I understand that like stuff really started to
film.
We were it's when we divorced sex from pregnancy with birth control over this started to happen yappin.
Exactly. And this has fall outs, you know, and I think the fact that we're even having this conversation. That's that's a Fallout of those last few. Those last few decades, it's a Fallout of hookup culture. It's a Fallout of the decline of marriage. It's a Fallout of these narratives that are being pushed both, Two Men and two women in terms of, you know what your life.
Should look like and what things are virtues and what things are vices. And so on, it's like, I call it the inversion agenda, right? Everything just being just being flipped on its head, totally everything being flipped on its head. But yeah, it's a, it's a sad issue and I do think I do think in the future. I do think that future humans will look back on this and look back on some of the attitudes. And the way that we look back at slavery, I will I will. I will go that far. I think people will look back and they'll look at the numbers and they'll look at the blasé attitude.
Attitudes or even some of the outright promotion of it and they will be, they'll be gobsmack. They'll be thinking, how did people just I know? I also think too that, you know, there's there's a lot of hang up with like two specific issues with it in terms of incest and rape and then that becomes the driving Factor driving factor which seemed like once raised people, which are, which is our main, which is also dishonest, right? Because people only use that type of argument on this
Killer issue, right? Right. So even those cases, typically are talking under point five percent, right? Not even half a percent, okay? For those those edge cases, but it would be like trying to argue that. Like, if you're accepting the, the moral weight of the termination of a human life, I mean, if you, for example, if you tried to argue that, we can all think of situations where homicide is morally justifiable, right?
It's defending yourself. Yeah. Someone someone's holding a someone's holding a gun to you or like pointing a gun at, you know, someone else. And, you know, someone shoots them first, right? That's a homicide. No one, you know. No. No one would say you. But then you wouldn't use the fact that justifiable homicide exists to justify homicide in general, right, you wouldn't go okay. Well, there's this one percent situation where morally and ethically
That's you know neutral or or fair. So therefore homicide in general is okay, right. But but that, but that's kind of what people are doing with the situation where you go to, the most Fringe, most Edge case. And it really it's an, it's an appeal to emotion because most people will be like, okay, like rapist terrible insensitive? Yeah, exactly. But then they're like, okay, so that's why the whole thing needs to be lie and it's like, well, no, that doesn't. That doesn't morally nor logically follow that because you can think of
Of an exception case, where maybe something has a different moral weight or could be potentially Justified at least legally and then say, okay, so therefore it's across the board. So, to me, that's just a, it's a dishonest framing, it's a dishonest argument. And, you know, I think it would be there. It's like I said the things that are frustrating about the argument are the lack of consistency and and just honesty among certain people. But then also,
So the the ignoring of the other, what we the Upstream conversation, right? Because, if you really want to talk about this, honestly, we need to talk about, like, approach to. We need to talk about sex and sexuality, and people's behavior and decision-making. We need to talk about marriage. We need to talk about prevent children and family. Yeah. All, it's a much bigger, more grown-up conversation. Yes, you can get lost in the weeds of the, the legality, and the moral, and the ethical, you know,
no arguments Downstream. But I'm like, can we, if we could take this up a level then, and I would think that, regardless of someone's actual view on the issue, most sane people would agree that like, say someone who, you know, considers themselves pro-choice, both morally and legally. For example, I think a sane person like that, who would still want to reduce
The number right? They'd still be like, maybe they think it's a necessary, evil quote, unquote, but
everybody agrees, that it makes sense, to figure out how to like redo this
everybody used to. This is how deep the inversions God and you now have people who are actually, like, pro-abortion that that that's a real position now, right? So, that's, that's really don't write to me. That's even like a separate category. Like, I can, you know, even though it's not my position, I can understand, you know, the kind of begrudging position of someone like, okay, well necessary, you know, maybe
Be necessary evil, you know, maybe first 10, 12 weeks there's ever. I I can. It's not that's not my position but I can I can I can understand that better when someone is just full on. Like, you know, any reason any limit, whatever. Or people who even say that it's, you know, it's pro-social or it's good because it keeps the population down or because it keeps all that guy. I'm like we were talking before about Eugenics. All right, I'm kind of like, dude. Like that's a natural. That's like it just that's to me. That's like a very
Der being position. I mean I've even had conversations with people who and this logically does follow. Right? Who think that you know infanticide is morally. Okay. Let's because it's you know, because one of the pro-life positions would be the, you know, obviously well, what's the difference between within the womb were outside, right? Like yeah, if someone's arguing that, you know, abortions, okay? Say up until the point of birth, you know, I'd be like, well do the same. What's the difference between inside and out? And some people will take that and go, okay, there is no.
Friends. So therefore I also think that for the first six months of a child's over newborn's life or whatever. I mean this is the Peters. This is the Peter Singer argument. I don't know if you're familiar with Peter Singer but his argument is that I think the first one to two years evil. He's you know thinks that invent infanticide should be should be legal and it's like, it's kind of like a logical follow up from that position. Ironically he himself has made some people.
Because they're like, that's crazy. They're kind of like, he's right. Yeah, he's right. But like, where that leads to is freaking is like, okay, so maybe dark, maybe those other people, maybe they're making, maybe they're making more sense because I don't really want to be siding
this whole, this whole population control thing. It's it's existed for a while and different belief systems Eugenics, and now you see it with the climate change, you know, people, and you hear this a lot. Like, why would you have a kid in this crazy world? A, we have too many people. This is so,
So crazy to me because the best tool that humans have ever had ever to solve. Our problems is innovation and Ingenuity and more people means we do better at that and by the way all the data and historically this is a fact, the more people there are the more things we figure out the better off, we tend to do, and we can also have a lot of countries are going to saw or going to have population collapse. Yes, as a result of this strange beliefs. What the hell is going? Like a fact, check me. But, I mean, can you fit the
entire
Population in the state of Texas. Yeah, you can. It's
crazy to me. It's a weird talking, crazy. Believe it's like, why why are they doing this? Why are they telling us to not have kids to? That was too many people that it so. Yeah, people need to die like when the opposite, even just for our standard of living Prosperity Innovation, that's not true. The opposite is actually true and the fact that there's countries right now, modern societies that are probably going to collapse, yes, because they can no longer they don't have.
Enough people to been to Japan. Is one of them. Italy is in, you know where my family's from their kind of screwed right now. China screwed themselves with their one child policy. Now they're having to figure out how to reverse out of it. Why are we being told
this? Wow. Okay this is where I'm just going to be a hypothetical because I don't I don't understand everyone's motives number whether I have some there is a depopulation agenda. It's been in place for decades. At this point, C been spoken about pretty openly especially since the
I think there are my intelligent sort of assumption. An inkling is that there are firstly, there are True Believers, right? So, there are people who genuinely believe these sort of malthusian arguments of. It's not about space, has been answering your question to them. It's about resources, right? So in the past, you know, I think goes back to Thomas Malthus, couple centuries ago, where, you know, he believed that, you know, if the global population
Elation passes. So I don't know what 2 billion or something like that. We've got then, there's going to be Mass starvation because at the moment, we only have this amount of food and this amount of clean water and so on. So if the population out strips that, you know, that's going to lead to all these
problems. Imagining, we never innovate. We make sense, right? Yeah.
So I think they're, I think there are the True Believers. There are the people who genuinely genuinely truly believe that our overpopulation quote-unquote is a massive issue. Its kind of caused all these problems. And so we need to do, we need to act now to stem this. I think there's the true believers.
And I think they're wrong, but I don't think there's any sort of wickedness or malice in that. And then, there are the people who looping back around to what we said. Earlier, you know, there are people who I believe are genuine or genuinely anti-human right there. Anti-human, they do not like, you know, maybe they like some individual people, but they're not generally pro-human. They are there people who view human beings as this sort of a cancer on Earth. I hope you've heard that cancer. A parasites.
People use that to refer to babies in the womb. Sometimes parasite that humans are this sort of, by the way, a lot of people who do like Mass bombings in mass shootings, use the same type of language that human beings are these parasites and wicked creatures and you know the best thing for the nature and for the world. And for other animals is to reduce, you do reduce the number of these parasites in their terms. So
Those are the two sort of main lines of thinking. I think one of them is more, I think one of them is wrong but more quote, unquote benevolent and away and the other I do is just think is like you know evil malicious and evil and anti-human and I don't think that it's sadly. I don't think that that type of thinking is as rare as I wish it was. When you, when you really talk to some people, you can really see that. They're not they're not pro human, right? They don't really.
The type of people who even use terms like I don't know speciesism, right? Kind of people who think that. Okay well I've had arguments with people where they're like well what's so special about human beings? No no really right there like you so much. Yeah and I'm kind of like how long do you want the list? Yeah and maybe maybe maybe this is again maybe this is where complete godlessness sort of leads to because if you reach the final position that you know, we are just Advanced tapes.
On this spinning Planet. Then yeah. Why would we have like my argument about what makes human being so special? If you go deep ultimately, I'm going to have to come down to a religious argument, right? Which is that man is made in the image of God and we are uniquely set apart from all other animal species and plant species. And so on, we are uniquely set apart and we have a soul and Consciousness and so on and were made in God's image dogs. Chickens cats monkeys, they're not made in
This image, this does not mean that they don't matter, or they don't have value or we should just wipe them out. No, no, no. But human beings are uniquely distinct. But if you collapse all that and you don't believe any of it, then it's like, okay, well chimpanzees are equal to us, dogs, cats, ants, mice, like they're all they're all equal to us. And so, I don't think there's even that much of an issue in wanting to, I don't know, you know, protect
Preserve animals or anything like that at all, but I think when you bring human beings down to the level of just being another animal, then that's again, this is where you end up in this territory. This is where people start making, you know, if you see what's going on with euthanasia and Canada and some other countries
and how mental illness qualifies,
you? Yeah. Right. But this is where it goes. Because what happens if a dog is very sick or a dog at you put it down, put it down, right? And people are like, well, why can't you do the same if human beings are just another animal.
All right. Then, what would be the argument against that? And I think because I think people don't think about these things that deeply and realize, okay, well you're a lot people. Talk about slippery slope fallacy Seasons, like the slippery slope is not typically a fallacy. It's just seeing second third and fourth order consequences of things that are going on. If you, if you make, by the way, this is one of my biggest concerns. This is my biggest concern with the whole push of transgenderism on children. My biggest
Concern is not most people's concerns because most people are only thinking first and second order. My biggest concern is that if you are saying that a 12 13, 14 year old child can consent to something so drastic as a social, let alone medical transition, right? If it's if it's a 13 year old girl is consent to getting a double mastectomy and having whatever you know rendering herself in for it's all going.
On hormone treatments, whatever it is because she wants to be a quote-unquote different gender. Then you are eliminating, the concept of children, not being able to consent. This is the greatest danger of the push for transgenderism on children. It's not just, it's not about, it's not just women's sports or changing rooms or this or that. It's you are, you are obliterating. Correct. A hard line that we have always had in society about this. And why don't? Why can't a child get a tattoo? Why can't chill?
Smoke. Why can't you get a car loan? Can they what? Yeah right there's a lot of things we recognize fundamentally legally, ethically morally. There's a distinction between adults with somebody old. Yeah. Well, the distinction. Well, this, this is where this is. This is the problem, right? That's me. It's a gateway to pedophilia. It's absolutely a gateway to it. And to some people that's like, oh well, you know, your that's a fallacy or what. And I'm like, no, it's not because what would be the argument if you are saying that, and by the way, okay, why do we say that children? Can't consent to these things because the
human brain and physical and emotional maturity developed is not developed enough at a young age in order to we know that. I mean, brain fully finishes developing why around 25, right? And one of the things with young people is they don't understand long-term, they struggle to understand long-term consequences, right? You have to get a lot older until you recognize. Okay. We've all been there. Yeah, if I do that. Yeah, exactly right teenagers. Preteens impulsive. You're not thinking long term, which is why you
Have certain safeguards and things over. So if you're saying okay at twelve year, olds older 13 or whatever, you're old enough to make a permanent, think about this, you're actually, in many of these cases, you'd be rendering the person infertile for life. So you're saying that a 13 year-old is making a decision at 13 about. If they ever want to naturally have children, if they want these permanent changes that you wouldn't let them get a tattoo, right? Because you recognize that sperm, that's you don't understand the call, you might think, okay, it's cool. Having this little
A logo or design on my arm, but cut off your boobs, but it's it's it's nutty, it's nutty. I just remembered I was going to come back to you about something to be optimistic about your huh. Now that we've gone right down, we've got real deep. I did you, I didn't know we were gonna go this deep. Um, but
she's like they're going to talk to me about bench presses,
talk about nutrition and how much protein I think we passed Peak woke.
I think we've passed the peak, I agree, and I don't think we've passed the peak of the stupidity and foolishness, but I think we passed the peak of the tolerance for it, explicitly, and implicitly. More and more people on all levels. Are starting to see some of these problems and more importantly speak out on them. Talking about these issues in 2017, 2018, 2019, like, it was pretty lonely, right? It was kind of like, oh, gosh, like,
Why is no one else talking about this? Am I the crazy one, whatever, you know, just like now now it's okay to sort of question the efficacy and safety of the of the c19 Jabs and it's okay to question. They like but like doing that two years ago for like directly call social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go right. Like it was, you know, you do it but it was like what? Like that, but the tide you pass a certain Peak and the tide begins to turn and the Overton window opens and I think
It now and perhaps this was due to the lockdown because I think a lot of parents saw what their kids were learning with remote learning and certain things you had the whole BLM Fallout, which woke a lot of people up to, man. I remember did it. Do it in 2020 when I spoke out against BLM? People wanted to forget crucify me man. Yeah, well IP of all that I've put out over a hundred and thirty thousand tweets. The one that caused the only one that ever caused real problems. For me in my personal life was my criticism of BLM.
Now, you saw early on when you saw
them, remember what they were. We did post a black Square have people's heads exploded. Yeah. Maybe we refused to do so you
saw that early on where you looked at and you said because this I saw this, I saw this, I said, oh, these are opportunists, they're totally taking advantage of a situation. They're going to capitalize on it and because all his no real leader and because all these corporations want to capitalize on this movement as well, they're going to Virtue signal and they're going to promote this organization. And so I agree with the sentiment. I don't agree with the organization and now we know.
We look back with either tax records
and yes. Well this is what's interesting, because I mean, I worked out this organization was a scam, may be back in 2017 or so because BLM is not new and I like, no it didn't just start in 2020. It started I believe in 2015 2016 up whenever I think after the Michael Brown shooting. Uh-huh. So I had done dude. It like I knew it was run. I've known for five, I've known for five years. That is run by Marxist. What's right away? Is all right openly. Yeah. It's run by Marxist. They've got like all these agendas that have nothing to do with black people, they're trying to overthrow capitalism.
Mm, and dismantle the nuclear family and all the things even the, the tagline versus what they promote. It's like, well, you know, the movement is really black lives matter if killed by a white police officer and dubious circumstances during an election year, right? Like that's really the full
and it gets, it gets media.
Yeah. Like that's really the full thing, right? The top, 20 killers of black people in America or worldwide. The police are not one of them.
Okay, it's not even in the top 20. So if you had a movement called black lives matter, and you genuinely meant what it said on the tin. Then let's talk about. Let's talk about heart disease. Let's talk about Strokes. Let's talk about accidents. Let's talk about suicides. Let's talk about homicides, primarily, who are, which are committed by other black people on black people. Let's talk about all the things. Let's take the top 10, things that kill black people and let's make a movement around trying
to
to go get no money reduce those things, right? Yeah,
exactly logical. And also, if your issue is police brutality and police killings the police in the USA every single year, kill more white people than they do black people. Most people can't even name one.
Right? They yes proportion as a percentage of the population. The it's you know it's disproportionately black people and so on, but it's like look this thing is just it's a scam, it's a hijacking and if you really wanted to talk about whether you want to talk about the police brutality or police violence issue, or you wanted to talk about, you know, black lives actually mattering and things that are killing black people. And top-of-the-line, actually abortion, then these would be very different conversations and you wouldn't want to
racial eyes, the police brutality and police killing issue because the majority of people being killed
by police in the USA even in these unarmed situations and, you know, scenarios where it shouldn't be happening, are not black people. So why you limiting to that? Obviously, they're doing it for political reasons and to jack up people's emotions. But yeah, anyway, I worked this all out many years ago, so, when I saw this Reincarnation come up again in 2020, I was like this thing's a scam and people were like, oh my gosh, how dare you are? What kind of comments? Are you getting and man, I man I don't even want to get into it too much because it was actually it. Got it got too close to home.
Got way too close to home. I've been Vindicated now obviously because you know with all the all the tax filings and all this stuff that fell out, right? People now know you know again some don't though you don't say that's crazy. How much that doesn't hit the mainstream use like you have to kind of dig for that, not everyone. But literally summer 2020. When I came out and said the BLM is a scam, like people weren't really not with me, man. Now I can say like, no, two years later. You can say it and it's like, okay,
You're now you know, kind of a quote-unquote allowed to say that one of the things I get a lot of flack from it's just being early. Yeah, I got a lot of flowers. I was early on like the, the c19 stuff, I was early on the BLM stuff, like sometimes I'll just say something that's on the trans stuff. Like I just kind of say things early and, you know, you receive a ton of flack for that and get called all sorts of names or whatever. And then, you know, one year, two years, three years down the line indicator. Yeah, you get the idea. One kind of Noah.
Kind of recognizes
that I recognize that about you. I see you always one of the first people to speak out a bit of a Maverick when it's very unpopular. Say what you're going to say.
The very least question you do a good job of just questioning it like yeah,
which I appreciate even if I were to disagree with you by the way? Sure. I appreciate anybody has a courage to do that. Because I mean, your business is built now around media and we now know just how much control and power they have and how they can shut people off and kick them out. I'm sure you got Shadow band many
times.
Yeah, my account was throttled until Ilan took over from probably 2019 until you learn to go over. I wasn't Shadow ban but my account was throttled, meaning that they just like, removing a Lover's. Yeah. They limit my follower growth, but I'll be honest, man. Tits, to me, it's not a the thing, I, the compliment. I get most often wherever I am is actually people thanking me for my, for my courage or bravery. And while it's sort of
Flattering in one way. I don't even consider myself like stupendously Brave, or courageous. Because I just think the bar for that has fallen a
lot right
now, I'm like, I'm like for real like surfing the truth. You're so great just being shipped off overseas to, you know, go fight. You don't have bullets flying at me or bombs or whatever. Like I'm just saying what I think on podcast and on Twitter and on stage. And again, I don't think that anything I'm saying is you know, whether
Will agree or disagree with various elements of it, you know, I don't think anything I'm saying is sort of that out there or, you know, some sort of crazy position or anything like that. But yeah, to me it's to me, it's an ethical and it's a moral duty. It's not a to me, it's like a compulsion. It's not something that I have to sort of, motivate myself to do. It's like, I can't not if I, if I have a belief or a position on something, and I've really thought it,
Through and I'm seeing you know like if I see the train of society and culture sort of speeding up ahead and I know that there's a knot in the railway line or there's something that's going to derail the train or it's heading towards a cliff just like I'd feel compelled to say something right not just keep quiet because well other people can't see the not in the line. So let me just watch this accident happen in slow motion. I'm like
I feel a compulsion to get. Hey, this is where we're heading. And if we're not careful, it was, it was like, like, with all the, all the, all the Rona stuff, right? With the lockdowns and the mandates. And this, and I was saying in 2020 early 2020 to Mid 2020. What was going to happen, right? I was calling it saying, like look, if you accept this, this is going to eventually lead to people. You know, I saw the vax Mandate before the Vex was even you recall. The conspiracy talk I was talking about. So quote, unquote vaccine passports, before the
Scene was even rolled out right? And people are like no that's not going to happen, whatever wood. And I'm like dude if you this is a compliance ladder that you're on, if you give you accept each of these steps, then you're eventually going to be in a position as a nation as a society where this thing is being mandated and now you're not in a position to fight back, and that's exactly how it played out. And yeah, I could just, I could just see it coming. Do you know what's really scary is? Could you imagine if it actually worked better, if what worked better, the
See. Imagine if actually, the statistics that have rolled out for the last year, actually
we're gonna just the favorable, it would justify that
to me, is what's really scary? I'll tell you it's like we're almost lucky. They got all the stuff came out later that look, it still spreads. Look if you're this age it really does. It's
like the shitty vaccine. And also,
could you imagine, you know, you know what, a lot of people have said that or imagine if the virus is, was a lot worse, right? People say that it would have been better.
You think so? Yes, okay, tell me how because you wouldn't they wouldn't have needed to. So some people are like, well what if the virus had like a 10% kill rate instead of 0.2 or whatever it is, right? You wouldn't need any
coercion know. Everybody would have just
you wouldn't, you wouldn't need any coercion, almost whatever is there were genuinely genuinely. Okay? Imagine if there was like I don't know, Airborne Ebola, right? Imagine if there was just something floating around outside and if you get it, even as a young healthy,
Earthy, man, that's a good point. Like, there's a, there's no man thirty percent, it's easy, as there's no magical eyes yet, there's no mandates, there's no coercion. There's no playing people off of each other and dividing. There's no propaganda to pump up the pr in the advertising of the virus or anything like that. It's just like, look, this is the reality of it. People are naturally self-preserving and people will, it's a good point. People will act accordingly. The reason why they even were able to do. So many of these Shenanigans is that it kind of Hit The Sweet Spot of being like,
Not like, not not complete, not a complete. Nothing burger. Right? Right. Not like, okay. It's literally just a cold. It wasn't that, but also not so date, like, it was kind of Hit The Sweet Spot, was close enough that you were in the water to people connected to somebody that I really affected. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So they could step in and do all of the coercion because people were not, you know, some people were like, oh my gosh, I'm freaking out, I'm double masking, I'm doing this, I'm doing that other people are like yeah, whatever.
All right, let's just go about our lives and this created this Clash supervision. So yeah, we're then able to, Once people are divided, you can always step in as an authority
and people have a fundamental misunderstanding of Liberty on that content in that scenario. Because people like, well, it's yes, you're free, but you're not free to give it to someone else. No, no, that's how Freedom works. You are free. To take the risks, you want to take and meet with who you want to meet with, and if you want to business, you're free to put a sign on your door. That says, if your unvaccinated, you can't come in here. And if you're vaccinated you
That's Freedom. Not, you're not free to give it to someone else. Yes, yeah, no, no, you can stay home. You can meet with people, you take the risk. You want. That's Liberty. And by the way, when you compare this States and this is one of the two things that I think kept America free or than the most of the Western World during that period of time, even though I think we still went too far. One was I think our Second Amendment always makes people go huh. The second one is our state system because we have states that can say no the federal government can't mess.
The Sara Lee imposed across the country in, but what that did is it is we have wonderful comparisons. You can see how free states acted versus not so free states. And what's funny is that when the infection rates Got High people in states that were more free? They still kind of acted the way people would normally act. They stayed home more than immediate, you know, with people as much. So it was a lot better but I do think this is important to say and I'd love your opinion on this. It seems to me that one of the litmus
Were one of the ways you can see what's going on in the world is whenever there's something very powerful, a movement, it's a prime vehicle to be hijacked like racism, it really existed and there were movements towards working against you know taking laws down that were clearly discriminatory. Then it started to get hijacked feminism. There was like there were real laws against women and women couldn't have they couldn't you know. Take they would hold wounds or just. Yeah and they just kind of hide
Ejected the lgbtq community, right? You had real issues where, you know, if you were gay, get thrown in jail and, you know, that kind of stuff. And but it started to get hijacked and it gets hijacked by these groups that grab onto this movement and then say, and a lot of them are Marxist. And Marxist theory doesn't just have to be economic, they got their asses kicked economically. So they don't even focus on that anymore. Now they like to focus on the other stuff. They tend to get hijacked. Yes. Do you think for example, the latest one the big one right is the LGBT
The movement and in particular, this kind of transgender movement, do you think it'll gone too far? Do you think they've been hijacked? Yes.
Here's a bar for you.
every social movement without a clearly defined Finish Line, ultimately ends up becoming what it set out to fight
against
I mean,
they all. So if there's not a clear end line, clear goal where it's like, okay after we achieve this, we can we're done. We can show up, shut it down because I'm right. They they go and progress to the point. It was like that Pac-Man analogy, I just gonna see I'm gonna steal this day. I'm gonna close the path where they come out on the other side, right? Where they become. The
It's they become the intolerant, they become the hateful ones. They become the ones, dividing people, they become the ones, obsessed with the labels and whatever. I don't give a crap if someone's gay, okay, right. I don't care whatever but they beat, they beat you over the head with it. And they start actively discriminating against other people and applying these names and labels to other people where they claim that was so. Look at modern day, what they call, quote, unquote, anti-racism,
They've
come full circle back around to. You should judge people by their skin color. Their should treat people differently and talk to people differently based on their skin color. We should have different rules and laws and policies based on someone's skin color whether it's affirmative action. Or I've seen Live Events where they charge white people. More for the tickets perhaps in live music events person of color, ticket $30, white person, ticket $50. What? Like what? Right like for agents are there,
Yeah, it's Bonkers, right? Look at the excesses of feminism, okay? As we know when someone gets like way too deep on this, modern-day feminism stuff. What happens? They end up hating men, they end up becoming sexist. It becomes a Female Supremacy. Movement is no longer about gender, equality, and fairness, and equal opportunities. Now it's smash, the patriarchy. Now, it's men or toxic now, it's boys are defective girls. Now, it's so hot. Why do we, why do we even need, man? Whatever? Like it gets to this level where
you set out apparently to fight against hate or discrimination or inequality on unfairness or whatever and you go so far that now the boots on the other foot and you're the person who's kind of got that seems to pursue our universe has been you know going to school. Got bullied for not being gay for what not being gay is that one
Yeah, it just went completely
full circle. Yeah, it's if a
movement has no, no, you should see what I believe. It just happened one with two years ago. Was it your? Yeah, he came to work and he told us his story and he's like, yeah, there's like six these kids and they're running around with the rainbow flag, and then there, she had a band the flag for a while there. I was making a move by the, by the way, it's a whole. I mean, look, it's interesting. I mean I had an interesting experience in November, I got protested for the first time. Huh. So I spoke at a university in Florida funnily enough on freedom of speech
Speech and about 40 protesters a show or so showed up. And, you know, they had their chance. They had their Flags, their science. I'd never been personally protested before and it was it was quite surreal. Yeah, but it was interesting because again it was a great example of them being what they think they are, they are what they think they're fighting against. They think they're fighting against intolerance and fascist bigotry and what and I'm like you're the ones trying to shut me down.
Funnily enough, a black man not even to play that card, but there's this tyranny. Yeah, and it with all these white kids, they're protesting me and try to get a levels that, oh, you know, and what some of them are holding BLM signs, then
it's be its prime to be taken over by people seeking power, in particular, politicians, if a movement
it is over. I mean you don't have the power behind it. If something is solved as if a problem is solved, we no longer have that issue that we can, you know, hangover people to get them to vote for me. So it becomes politically powerful to have and talk about lots of these issues. It becomes it's a, it's an effective tool. When you find an effective tool, this is like this is true for all human history. I can use fire as an example fire. Very, very, you know, transformative
For Tool, I can build with it. I can build societies with. I can burn you. Yes, I can, I could take you down nuclear energy and we could, we could provide energy for the whole world. We can actually solved our climate issues with nuclear energy. We'd also make nuclear bombs and kill each other. So everybody, I think that's what happens. Anytime you see a big movement always look for the people. So, I was at. So, I tell my kids to see me tight time, you see a huge movement, look for the people who are ready to grab that movement, and use it for nefarious reasons, because they're there, and they're waiting. Yeah, they're waiting for
something. Yeah, I think,
It's really important to always check power both within ourselves as individuals and also on a total societal level. Because as they say, absolute power corrupts, absolutely. And, you know, just just a, we're talking about different personality types. Some people do absolutely have a tendency towards authoritarianism and power tripping. And, you know, you can see this with certain parents. You can see it with certain bosses, you can see it, you know, it's just
All these human traits are put on an or they're all in a normal distribution curve, right. So there's always going to be a five percent who are, you know, on that end in a five percent on that end. And you know, some people you give them some power, however, little and immediately they changed their trip. Their trip it off at and they're there to make, you know, they're trying to control everyone. Imagine. Yeah, exactly. It could be the most minor Hall Monitor, right? Like, it could be the most, the most minor thing and that's something that we always have to be aware of, you know? And, and in ourselves as well. I constantly
You know, I do my best to consciously, check myself on multiple things all the time, right? As my star grows, and I become more popular and more influential, and whatever. Especially I always have to, you know, I'm aware of my own personality type and things that I might have a tendency towards or leaning and day after day multiple times a day. You have to kind of re ground yourself and apply perspective, and apply gratitude.
Dude, and, you know, stay stay attached to the world and know what to, you know, it's a constant battle to navigate, but I think that one thing, I'm a big fan of one thing. I hopefully I've been able to do on this podcast in with all the other work that I'm doing is to just, you know, raise raise human consciousness, somewhat raise the level of critical thinking, raise the level of self-empowerment and people taking accountability and
Ability and doing my best to lead, by example, both for people younger and older than me. And I think if everyone just did that and focused more on that internal rather than external locus of control. Then I think that's how we truly change the world. It does. And it doesn't mean that, you know, we're all going to end up agreeing with each other on everything or all going to be on the same team of red. But at least at a minimum things will be civil. Yeah. And people can get on with each other and you people will at least understand.
And each other, right? You can at least be like, okay, you know what? Like, okay, we agree on these things, or we disagree on these, but the disagreement is not because you're evil, or because you're hateful or because you're discreet. It's just that, you know, we have a slightly different angle on disagreeing and and here's another thing that's interesting is why I called these type of conversations or so important because I think often times people just see the final conclusions and they miss all the epistemology of people's arguments and
I mean by that is say you take any any of these issues though, people talk about, right? And one person reaches this position, one person reaches that position. If you only know the endpoint and you don't know how they reach their then, people tend to assume again because of the tribalism or just lazy thinking people often ascribe the worst possible motives, why someone may have reached a certain conclusion, whereas the reality is they if there's a 10-step process in reaching that conclusion
Inclusion. They could agree on the first eight and then, okay, on the 9th one, that's where they deviate. It's rarely the case that someone holds a position because they just, they're just hateful or because they weren't want the world, to be a worse place, or, because whatever it is, even on something that is we literally talked about like the greatest landmine issue of abortion, right? Regardless of someone's view on it, the easiest and laziest,
Framing is to just claim malice and Evil on the other side, right? If you're pro-life, it's very easy. But I would say lazy to just make the claim that anyone who thinks abortion should be legal or is permissible up to a certain stage or whatever that they're just evil, they hate babies. They're supporting murder what right? Like that's the lazy one, lazy, one on the flip side, if someone considers themselves pro-choice and they come across, someone's Perla. Oh, you know, you're here. You hate women. Your
Pro first forced birth. You know, you're this, you're that right, you're sexist. You're trying to, you know, implement the handmaid's tale, whatever it is. And it's I can see why people are tempted by that, because it's easy to score points. And it doesn't take much thinking and is lazy. But the truth is on this, and every other issue is it's more. It's way more nuanced and it's interesting to know. Okay, why, how have you reached this? This, this final answer, you know, you do in school and they say you show your work. Yeah, right.
And even in math, right? Don't just write down. The answer is 3, right? We want to see how did you get there? How did you get there? And maybe there was a okay. Wait, that's not consistent. It's just,
this is why I think part of this is when I start to think positive because of the internet and the infinite amount of bandwidth we can now have to our conversations about topics. Whereas before, you know, when I was growing up, it was impossible, bandwidth. So short, it was like 30 seconds if you're lucky 30 minutes, but that was rare, was a 30-minute discussion.
Now, we can have podcast. We could talk things out, people can listen and go oh, that kind of makes sense. Or let me question that a little bit. Do you have any mentors by the way? Do you have any people that you, maybe, maybe either consciously or, you know, people, you know, you don't know but are there anybody that you look to and you that influences your way of thinking or you like to kind of look and see their kind of work,
I would always say, my not my top mentors and role models of course in my parents,
And I hope my future children can say the same in terms of popular figures. I'm a fan of anyone who seeks and speaks the truth and who's willing to have these discussions and conversations. It's why I'm a fan of Jordan Pederson. I like Joe Rogan. I love all the stuff that the daily wire is doing. You know, that hole and anyone who's sort of out there and having these, you know what you guys are doing, anyone who's out here having
These conversations and is willing to do it and willing to listen and try to understand The Human Condition. Then I find that inspiring and I'm trying to do the same thing because I'm you know, I've traveled to so many different countries of lived in different places met, so many different types of people. And one thing that's always important to remember in all these conversations and day-to-day life is that most people all around the world want fairly similar things.
In the, in the grand scheme and also that people are you know, human beings are both, are both good and bad. We have virtues, we have vices where, you know, we're flawed, but we're also, I often say we're the best and worst thing on the planet, right? We and we're also the most complicated, especially, when you've combined millions or billions of us together, like what the heck like. It's, it's crazy. That any of it works and I genuinely, I genuinely just have a love for I have a love for Humanity, like I'm very Pro.
I'm it's funny because a lot of people would call me like conservative but I'm very like in some ways. I'm actually very Progressive in the sense of like my overall view of the fact that I think like, you know, we can we can be and we can do better and we can move forward. I don't think the way we move forward is by, you know, breaking the entire system and trying to rebuild it from nothing but by maintaining the things that we know work.
Work and you know, carefully tweaking, the things that don't and by actually empowering the individual and Empowering Families and empowering small communities. It's not this top-down. All right. We just need to change that thing in the government and the federal government and make some top-down mandate. That's going to fix. That was like, no, that's not gonna that's going to just lead to tyranny. Have you have you wanted to quit? Now, this has knife that. Have you showed you? I know you have a pretty optimistic attitude about things. And so,
even with all that,
You got, you weren't like, oh, you
know, dude. Let's be real, man. I get 100 times more love than I get heat. Okay, good. Like, I get so much freaking love and are smart enough to attach yourself every country I get. So especially over the last few years, it's been just love, love love everywhere. So I'm not going to let a very tiny percentage of people even if even though, even, even though that tiny present might be thousands of comments and brighter. Whatever. Is there any aspect though? Of the, you know how much your life is probably?
Changed in just the last five years or so like that. You don't like I mean is there parts of it that you maybe didn't see and then you're like you know that's not a big fan of that or I don't like that or less wish I had less of that in my life. Now I don't even think that way then that's obviously I don't think that way to me it's a blessing and my goal, the reason I even wanted to become a musician to begin with in terms of profession is because I wanted to have a positive inspirational and motivational impact on millions of people and I realized I wasn't going to do that.
Corporate world. Tell me, tell me a little bit more. That is actually don't know. That's part of your story of like, you know, was the was getting out on social like, was that really motivated by initially like the trying to get your rap career going and then it and then it just kind of unfolded the way did like, did you have this vision of? I'm going to say these controversial thing? No, no, no. And and it's what's interesting is this shows you how the world has shifted, because when I started my music career, I released my first album 2006 and wow, didn't realize that far. Yeah.
But I'll put out a lot of put out, nine albums and EPs and it wasn't until the mid to late 2010's. Like, when I first started, I mean, I was considered like, I don't know people who knew my music, I was kind of like a, um, like a British Will Smith kind of, you know, like, super uncontroversial. Like, I don't even cost, right? Like, a rapper who doesn't even cause doesn't promote any degeneracy? I don't even drink alcohol. Like, you know, I was almost like he's boring, right? Like there's nothing like that's that was considered boring. That was just like, whatever. And
And the words like the world has tilted. So far off its axis and become so debased in various ways that someone like myself to some is now considered controversial even though, right? Like it's got yeah, it's actually really funny when you think about funny. Like, I have that you were like this square ass rappers. I know. It's kind of like, oh my gosh, like whoa, he's bringing the heat. Yeah, it's weird when you started rapping now. Did you did you like it was part of the reason?
In of being you know, quote unquote has a s'more Square rapper was because maybe you did you see like how? So a lot of rap was glorifying killing and drugs and mean I do it, I wouldn't even use the term square. I just say real. Yeah. You know, I'm just, I'm just reeling. I'm honest about who I am. Yeah. But you took the approach of not really swearing know what, like you don't promote those things that's reality because I don't swear in real life. Okay. All right. I'm not swearing in this conversation. I don't swear in real life. So if I went in the studio and it suddenly started cussing up a storm, that would be like, that's fake.
Right. Yeah, I've never sold drugs or what you seek, okay. You can have a see that a lot in rap though, right. There's there's a lot of fakeness going on wrap people's pretending to be drug dealers and acting like they're moving weight. If it's like you've never feel like I mean I'm not gonna do that. Yeah. Like number one, it's not real. And number two, it's not, it's not pro-social right while. If I, if I can reach hundreds of thousands or millions of people with a message, especially young people, why would I want to push something? That's
Struck t''v. Hmm on them, especially if I know that it's not real and it's not my own reality or anything like that. So, my Approach from the very beginning was just, like, look, I'm going to be totally real about who I am. Like, I used to, I, you know, I've got songs where I mentioned that, I mean, I studied in Oxford University, right? I'm not there trying to pretend, oh, I came from, I came from the streets and I was had to had to sell crack to survival, that my dad's African medical doctor, like, everyone knows that, right. Like, I'm from an intact family.
My parents have been married almost 50 years. Like, I'm blessed. I'm privileged in many ways, right? And I will state that, and I'm not insecure about it or whatever, it's not a bad thing. So, for me, that was always, that was always simple and I've simply just taken that and expanded it into more areas. So, now, maybe people know me now more from podcasting or Twitter or YouTube or some of the Live Events and stuff that I do, but it's still the same, it's still the same message. It's been all the way through.
If you go back and listen to go back and listen, my album commercial underground from 2006, I made that when I was in my teens, it's the same messaging. I'm saying, like the I'm saying the same stuff. Some of it was actually quite prescient. In fact, on the very first song on my very first album. I have a lyric where I say my style is unbelievable. I did my research and my ideas are inconceivable like men giving birth. Wow.
16 years later, you know, you're seeing the op-eds commend your birth, you know I'm like oh wow that was like I said that because it was such a far
future support that song like she's always
busy. Yeah. But it shows how much that's wild. Yeah shows, how much things have shifted. But look man, I do my best to do my best and just encourage other people. Encourage other people to do the same. You know, we live in an amazing time where there's so much
Opportunity. And there's so much to be optimistic about and there's so much positive, but also on the flip side, there's a lot of stuff to be pessimistic about and there's a lot of stuff that's concerning and demoralizing and all of that. And through that, even through all the nonsense going on with covid and whatever. If I can be a light to some people or I can you know just say something that helps them reframe things in a better way. Or, you know, I've helped tons of people to get in the gym and improve their workouts or, you know, pursue what they
To do entrepreneurially, whatever it is. I don't, I don't, I often don't even know, just like you guys won't. You'll never know exactly how much impact you're having on people. Write all these episodes. You've done over the years, there's just something you can flippantly, just saying a podcast. And you know what? There's one kid who hears that and it's like, yeah, it makes it just click for them and then it puts them on a different trajectory in path and I'm like and that ripples out words, we've been impacted script like that. So we talked about, we do live events every once in awhile, we don't do them that often.
But we absolutely love it because it grounds us every time because you get an opportunity to
get to see the faces,
get to see that. And I tell you what, talk about given fuel for what you do, like, you see that one person who I got. I've never met that person and look how much that that message impacted their lives. So it's
incredible. You know, what I appreciate about you is that you don't take any of all of this for granted, which I think is rare these days. I think, you know, you made the comment earlier about how there's billions of people and it and miraculously at all.
Works. People don't really understand the gravity of that. It is not our in our nature to respect somebody's individual liberties or rights. It's not in our nature to not, you know, oppress somebody weaker than you or smaller than you. It's not, it's not in our nature to have laws that protect people that way or to view people that, you know, as although we're different that we all should be treated the same. That's so
So against our nature, and it's crazy that we're here, and I think people have taken it for so far, for granted that they're going the opposite direction. I don't think a lot of people realize you use the term useful idiots, by the way. That's a that's an old term useful. Idiots, were the people that helped these revolutions happen in some of these countries where tyrannical regimes took over and end of the first people to be thrown in the gulags afterwards. I don't think a lot of people realize what they're asking for. I think they take for granted where, where,
I mean, I I admittedly was that way. I felt like
For until I actually thought of it like that, like wow, it's not in our human nature to do these things therefore having the attitude. Like I probably had just say a decade ago of like ah you know as long as you're not bugging me or getting encroaching in my life, I don't care. Whatever you guys can all argue about it and but when I, when you start to realize the the downstream effects of not saying anything and that it is in our human nature, to try and oppress and control people that if you do not speak up.
The natural thing that will take its
course, if the constantly stop it, because that's the direction that it's always, you know, that's always going. Here's here's a Telltale, this is a tell for me, when somebody or an ideology or people that represent ideology refused to debate and discuss things. Yes, those are the people that are wrong. Those are the people that you should not listen to him, not follow because if somebody has good ideas, then they will stand the test of debate discussion and the test of time. And if people are not willing
To talk and discuss in especially if they are trying to silence other people from talking just from talking. Yep, that's the enemy. Yes. And their ideology is the evil one or the wrong one. Yes, so that's the tell
good ideas. Don't require censorship. Correct that ideas always do totally.
Well bro, this has been great.
Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. A great
conversation on. This has been a lot of what we went so much
deeper than I was anticipating but I'm glad all we knew we want our skin to look at us.
Back, when I think you, and you said it, I mean, I think I just, it's hard to actually find people that that genuinely want to be lights into this world and can articulate it. Well, yeah. So I think that you've liked your work for a really long time. Just glad we finally made it happen. So glad you appreciate you coming home and I can't. Thank you. Thank you for listening to mind pump.
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