Hi everyone. I am Sam. I'm the director of research at proof and ft statistics on Twitter and Kevin is in Europe this week. So he asked me to host a podcast. I wanted to bring on Rach. An rate is the CEO and founder of 9gag meme sharing website that
Has over 200 million monthly active users, but he's also recently rolled out meme land which is a web three ecosystem with a couple and a fuse associated with it. Potatoes is the biggest one. It was one of the most successful projects of Summer and they're launching a bigger project called captains in November. So a little bit of what we talk about is what to expect from that rollout. He also just has huge Visions for what he thinks meme land in 9gag can become in the web three space. So it's really interesting to get his take on that longer-term Vision also in
The patient of rolling out this project, he spent more than 1,000 eith of personal wealth on entities across the ecosystem. He built out a Twitter with over 200,000 followers and in doing. So he just has a lot of opinions. A lot of takes on what works and what does not work in an ft's. It was really interesting to get his thoughts there. I hope you enjoy the conversation. I think this idea of web to companies. And in real life Brands coming in 2nf T's, is something we've seen a lot of, but something will see more, and more of. So, it was really interesting to get his thoughts on what works, and what?
It doesn't.
Hey everybody. This is Sam and ft stats on Twitter, very excited to get to host a podcast and even more excited because I'm here with Ray Chan, I actually spent 15 years of my life living in Hong Kong and got to know Ray there. I was running. Uber and 9gag was the biggest success story kind of that Hong Kong had. So we went to a lot of tech events together. And as I've seen him build out Mima,
And an NF T collection. It's just been really impressive what they've done. So, really excited to have you here. Ray, how you doing today?
Yeah, good, yeah. Thanks for having me. I've fought that because the moment that you message me on Twitter and say that you are actually Sam. I was like stun. Yeah, I didn't expect any of these Stacks. They are. Can't I follow is someone that I knew. Yeah. So it's like a amazing a surprise. Yeah.
Yeah. There are all. These are definitely pros and cons. I think to having these Anon accounts but definitely will
My Favorite Things has been running into people who I knew in a prior life, and suddenly I'm a pink-haired pumpkin were chatting about NF. TS. Yeah. I guess, just to start. Why don't you tell us a little bit about 9gag and kind of the origin story there. I mean, it's been around since 2008 and you're still going strong. So how did how did that get founded? What was the, what was the the beginning there, the show.
I full article violets, we started not get back in 2008 at the time when people steal.
Sharing funny photo sang on and videos right via email. And also our way I am and MSN Messenger, right? It was, it was pretty inconvenient. That's why the time before, hey, could can we start a website so that I can just upload their content to the website and I can just send a link to my friend on on MSN or he IM, right? So instead of have to come fly away for the loading every time that's why we created website
I didn't expect it, it could be become a business and then we have like running it part-time for three to four years. And in 2011, We join 5 inches tops. And then after that, we raise our 7-Day of 2.8 million u.s. dollars. And after that, we also join Y combinator. And after that, we came back to Hong Kong to continue to view our company, to be our, our team, our products here, and then, and then we Branch out to social media platform.
It's why most people know not get up because they follow us on Instagram or Facebook wall or Tick-Tock or Twitter. Yeah.
And have you have you raised any money since then or was it just the the 2.8 million dollar round
only to see trauma? Yeah. Because I think we were profitable before that. We are always profitable after that as well. Yeah, I think the challenge for us is our we're profitable, but not really that big but somehow I think there are a lot of reasons. Right? That, that kind of like contribute why we suddenly man
Ah, yeah, but somehow I would say that for us is a very fun Journey, right? And then, I'll combine mission was to make the world happier and I think, I think we kind of at least have done part of that achieve some of that. Yeah,
you know I think for for aggregation in general it's such a competitive space. There's so many people out there. Just trying to aggravate, funny, cool content. Like what what do you think's made? You stand out and you get to 200 million users and just be this continual.
Of like, keynote platform.
I think there are few reasons, right? Number one is, I think a relatively better user experience. Yeah, I think, um, at the time when we started, there are a lot of funny works. I think funny website is always were always out there, right? But I think due to the, the monetization and business model, I think, I'm most of them have pretty bad user experience. Yeah. And at a time when we started, it's like, it's like a pet project for us. That's why we don't really care about me.
Any, right? And then that's what the user experience is. Always our Focus. I think that's one thing. And the other thing is because of our community that we have a pretty Global audience. That's why the content is not super, u.s. Centric, super u.s. Focus, I think that kind of like attract more people outside of the United States and then that kind of helped us to to grow bigger over
time. So you alluded to it a little earlier. So tell me about the kind of expansion into web three,
And building meme land. What what made you think that was a good idea?
Sure, we started to think about meme land since I last year. Yeah, and then we started to really do something from the beginning of this year. Yeah, at the time we fought, I mean, people have been talking about where three cryptocurrency and empty for a few years already, right? Yeah. But we always I'm personally, I kind of love
Of the ideas of crypto because of this centralization, right? Because of ownership. Yeah. But at the beginning I didn't really pay too much attention to any of tea because I feel like hey how come people would pay thousands of millions of dollars right for jpeg. Right? That was what I thought. Yeah. But after a kind of like a jump into the rabbit hole, I started to understand what about the power of and and ft that's why starting from from from this year we I personally
The to buy a lot of and if the strategy to jump into different communities to see, they what they are, what they do, why they do what they do. Right. Yeah and then and then in April we started to launch our, the mainland Twitter and also the website and we continue to develop our since then
So what were what were some of the entities that you that you bought when you're in your exploration during their what was that experience?
Like yeah, there's fast and if you die but was a body I still have it. Yeah. And at the time I thought hey, this is my first nft, right? And then maybe I just bought an expensive one and then people will know that. Hey we are, we are we are starting our web three company and stuff, right? Yeah, but then we found out people don't really give a fuck. Yeah. Because a lot of people have up
At least 10,000 people have ever bought a buy right. And then and, and the thing is, it's not about whether you only own an empty array. You have to have like be part of a community in order to get to know the people in the community. Now that's why. After that I started to to buy quite a lot of, I would say any of these from good communities like Kaiju Kings attack again and of course a moon perks. Yeah. And then started to to learn from the communities and also learn from the
So called we're free - team to see how they view their company. Yeah,
so as you are kind of going in the Kaiju Kings and gutter cat, gang and moon birds and, and these different discords. What were you would you learn about what makes communities do? Well, in this space,
I think they stopped it quite differently because the crowd is, is for a different for each project. Yeah. But ultimately, it's more about how they can get a group of people who really like each other.
Not just saw because of their financial Returns on investing in nft, but also our just love to be part of the server part of the community so that they hand out there each day and then they talk about interesting stuff. I think those are the things that started to got me really, really, I was a admiring nfte and I somehow feel like, hey, maybe this can be even bigger application of blockchain then cryptocurrency. At the end of the day, may be their only real one, maybe there will be
A few crypto that, that become really, really mainstream and popular, right? But that can be thousands or even millions of any of the companies that can survive and thrive, that's why we started to build our own nft a community in software, launch our cryptocurrency
and so tell us a little bit more about Mainland. What has what is that Journey been like what have you done to in this world of so many and FTS? What have you done to make it feel unique? And
Dated
I think the pictures because difference for us say some, I mean, there are tons of nft projects out there is right? Some teams are dogs, some teams are not right. And but there are not that many projects, they have teams with. I would say enough web to especially community, building experience, right? I think I get is on one hand. We are one of the largest so what to community. So there, that's why. When we stop our web 3G
Ernie. It feels like so natural. It's kind of like, hey, we are from primary school and then we are now going to meet those goals high school and then, and that was what I thought. Yeah, but of course history no, no history. But the market has told me, hey, this is not exactly the case because at the end of the day for web to community people don't really pay you. Yeah. They only spend their time on your website on your social media, but they don't actually pay you money, right? That's why even if they are demanding, their not that demanding. Yeah.
For were three there because people spend money to buy you. An f t. Yeah, that's why the, the demand, the requirement the request from the communities are kind of like, super, super high demanding, and high-speed space. I think those are very interesting to me, but at the end of the day, I think, what is, what differentiates I get from other projects because we understand how to build a community. We also have experience Superior, big Community, right? And, and we see
See, I would say that inefficiency of what to, that's why we wanted to Leverage The blockchain to kind of lay execute a vision that we have. Yeah, but we didn't, we couldn't do so in web to, for example, can we empower the creators as well as the community? So a to do what they like? Yeah, instead of have to do a very indirect way to make a living right, for example, like in we're free, it seems very straightforward. Hey, you create good content, you create good nft.
Willing to buy it, right? And then you creators can either own royalty or also earned a means there. And then they can continue to do that job that they like, right? And then the holders can can be part of it because they pay something. We they have to say. So that, the direct the relationship is very close. It's very direct. Meanwhile, in web to is fuse as a Creator. You have to be real followings, right? Peewee audience, and then you have to talk to advertisers and then if the advertises like you you can do some sports account.
10. But your fans may not like it. Right? That's, there's always some kind of struggle between the the the different parties. Yeah. So I would say that for us is understanding the the bets of web to but also have the experience of building web to and then we try to bring that into into our web three projects. I mean, that
I do want to come back to that because I am really curious kind of as someone running a business, how you've seen just like the difference is
Revenue generation and ability to build a business and kind of the website web to World versus what you've done with, nf2 use, but but touching a little bit more on on Mainland. What I mean in some ways when I heard 9gag was starting in nft as like, in many ways, this is perfect because so much of the nft community is just about. How do you maintain attention over a long period of time? And you, our website is so good at just keeping attention flowing and keep
people coming back and getting people building memes and talking about them and passing them around. Do you think that that experience like in what ways have you brought that to tamim land into potatoes? Like can you talk a little bit about what, like, how you've brought that voice to the web three
space the show? Um, I mean, doubt tons of website that also called web tool, right? Yeah. But most of them, they don't really interact with their Community. They Don't Really interact with their fans.
Before us, we have to write because on one hand, I cannot comment like, favorite come with you to a different website. On the other hand, even for for social media, or the content submitted by the greatest. So, I mean, the nature itself is very similar to what we call, we're free. It's just we don't have the token, we don't have the blockchain element. Yeah and then and that's why when we started we feel like it's very natural for us to do that. Yeah, but the thing is some, I find it kind of funny and also a little bit ridiculous in a sense that
Wow. Referee so young. So, so, so early right, there are a lot of people kind of, like, prowl off their the identity of so-called, where three native and stuff. Yeah. And then, they will kind of like look down on any web to business trying to launch our with three projects, probably because they get burned for many times that because a lot of projects that we try to build something and then to try to take, take away your Eve in terms of building the value into the ecosystem, right? That's why.
That's what we got. A lot of our fun and also a lot of criticism at the beginning. Yeah. Especially when we launched our first collection, you the real MVP. We launched it at a mean price 543. If it's like a very high price and then I and we launched at a time where Luna and also yet USD conflict crash the market and if we launch it kind of the second day after Luna has crash. Yeah. And that's why the sentiment was so bad and then you know,
Online, especially and empty and crypto Twitter, right? People love to see someone fail. Yeah especially someone with a name. Yeah. They want to love to see you fail. Yeah. And then but the thing is for us we received this is like a
Pretty bad launch, but it's not a very, very bad launch. That's why we continue to peel. And then we launched potatoes right due to the market, I'll change the so-called premium metal started by a couple in town. Yeah. And then we launched a free mean of potatoes. And then we try together the audience, we try together, the members to understand more what they want. Insofar, what we really want to build, so that we interact with each other with our community frequently. And then we,
Added to see our UWM repeater the for Price, the prices shoot up. And then the potatoes is also doing quite well right now, and people are very excited about our upcoming launcher. The captain sir, which is our main collection. Yeah. So I would say although it's like only less than half a year. It's like five to six months. I feel like I've been working on it for like, 5 to 6 years already. Yeah, that this is really crazy. Yeah,
for sure. I mean, yeah, launching right after lunar, or after the Luna, after the Luna blow,
Biz. Yeah could clearly could have been better but now it is impressive that it's kind of that you stuck around and built through that but going back a little bit. So what are the so break down those three, the 3M, the 3nf tease you talking about, you mentioned, you the real MVP. You, you meant to that out at 5.3 eith. Yeah. And how many of those were you able to sell?
We wanted to sell 300 turns out. We so 200. Yeah and then how we say, fuck it all out.
That's right. We just put that into treasury in South going to public, right? Because I think I think a lot of the times most were three projects, they really wanted to sell out because they really need that money, right? Other for rug or for for building right now. But for us, it's more like, I mean, getting that the mean money is good, right? Because it's like, funding was, but even if we don't get it, it's also good, right? Because somehow, we already allocate our project, our project to, to be with anyway, yeah, that's why for us. We just say, hey
Pocket. And then we just put more of the, on minted and weepy to our treasury by the way, looking back is this may be one of the best decisions that we make your sins, our free Journey. Yeah. And then um and then I think say more about that.
Why is it such a good decision to have all this treasury? This treasure stash of vanities.
Yeah. Because after we launched our the potatoes so I we launched our own sticking mechanism, we quite growing. I retake reference from from Boombox. Yeah.
Then I will learn from Boombox. Yeah, one thing that we wanted to do is some because we are based in Hong Kong. Yeah. And then now we feel the hate is so Troublesome to handle any Logistics and stuff. That's why we wanted to give back to the holders who who stick their nft, who grow their potatoes. Right? But we don't really want to handle all the logistics like e-commerce and stuff. That's why from the beginning. We always think about. Hey if there's any reward any price. Yeah, maybe we should do it as an in any of the format itself as a physical.
Good Swami. And and that's why we have the treasury of MVP and also potatoes. We can Cafe. Use them as some of the prizes for our weekly Price tool. And then we can gradually release the treasury, back to the market on one hand, and also Catholic, giving back to the community on the other hand. Yeah.
Got it. So I mean what I mean what one of the interesting things about your project has been the reward. You've given out for people who have grown or who've been Nest who've like nested, you know, can you tell us a little bit about that? I'm going to throw up the are put on the screen here. Some people can see some of these, some of these rewards you've put out, but how have you generally thought about rewards for people who have who have nested or who have who
have grown? I think the I think the key is
I'm like I like crypto right when I'm not gonna peel the POS are crypto. Now when you stick you get some rewards right foremost nft projects when they stick their and empty somehow, the users don't get much or they just get something that's not very useful, right? Yeah. We tried to give our holders something that they like, and they want. That's why we left range that the growing mechanism. We record growth win to give away.
Some interesting and funny prizes. Yeah, for example, the one on the screen is like give away 10, iPhone 14, probe, when Apple launched has launched the iPhone. We also give away to two prizes for free. My donors for a year. And also next week we are giving away a 69 1000g my stipend for for for the winner. So yeah, I think we tried to leverage that on one hand to create some some hype among the community, right. On the other hand, we
We leverage it as I perform to be while the new kind of marketing channel for for Mainland for us because full of experience in, I get, we we got approached by a lot of friends. After we launched midnight, they said, hey, great of course they don't talk to me, right? I guess we have ourselves people. Yeah, but Ray we really wanted to to go into what free but we are. We are afraid because it seems like most projects are they?
I work, right? And then the sentiment was to works and ft seems pretty bad, right? Can we do something safe but also when free, right, that's why for us is pretty easy for us to talk to them. We physically our team is like talking to a lot of mainstream Brands and they're willing to sponsor some goods, are some, some, some prizes for the audience so that, hey, the audience can get to know them because it's very targeted order. The holders, I never
I so that they can comply started to peel up a name for themselves in West, three on one hand. But also on the other hand on the, the course, for them is so low. And also for us means is we also leverage this as a platform. A new marketing channel. I so it's like a win-win for all parties here. Yeah. I think this is something that we wanted to be what without grow to win mechanism. Yeah.
So, how does this work here? Actually. So you so someone, so we have this free McDonald's for a year.
Nft basically, right? That people can combine sell that nft. What does the like what happens when someone owns it and wants to redeem
it? Yep, for each sharp Rises. We do it differently. Yeah, I think the key is how can we minimize our our I would say look at the logistics problems. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we are still very small team in beamland, right? Yeah and that's why for example like for iPhone is very easy. Yeah, you window.
I saw a flower price roll and then we just buy the iPhone and then we can send you a so-called at the refund, right? Yeah. I think that's one thing and then form a don't know. So there are two winners there we are. Right now we're talking to them. First of all we know where they are base so that we can calculate what exactly does it cost to to to to eat? McDonald's for four-year, right? Yeah I mean whether they actually it doesn't matter but the thing is some it's like a marketing. It's like a trick a gimmick right now.
People are willing to to win right in stuff. Hey, just say, hey, I give you energy, or I give you some even stuff like that. The biggest at the end of the day, people spend Eve 2 by n ft. They don't just look for if in return, right? They also want something fun. They also want something interesting. Yeah, that's why we have the McDonald's idea. Yeah, I don't know whether our two winners will actually eat McDonald's for year, right? But there are many ways to do that on one hand, we can just hey you just spend the money right and
We can just refund you on the other hand. Hey, can you can we work with their creators? Can we work with the winners right to create some content when you give away some free food to help the needed and stuff like that? I think those are I would say that as long as we create a vassal vessel for for this kind of creative idea. Then there are many, many ways that we can do things. Yeah,
two things I love about this. I mean first of all I think I think whenever an F keys and up entering into real life.
If prizes and, and that not even just prizes like in real life utility in real life rewards, it can often be very, very hard for those rewards to live up to the prices people are paying for an FTS. You know, I mean, if you even with potatoes, you're already looking at like a 2,000 dollar and ft. I think it becomes very difficult to, you know, to throw in whatever, real life perks are. It's hard to come up with something that's that valuable. I mean, you can do it but, but a lot of times, it doesn't kind of meat, what people are in it for, so I love that.
Have gone to routes one, is giving people NF teases prizes. Like people are here for enough to use and you're giving more enough to use and those have like eith value that people want. And then the second is these, the one when you are going in real life, they're really good marketing. Ploys, like I tweeted about your McCree McDonald's for a year and I think it got 1,000 likes, like it, just it just gained variety and it feels like, that's what you guys are really, really good? At is figuring how to create
variety, there's this is alcohol.
Yeah, so so it's I wouldn't say it's easy PC but more like, it's very natural. Yeah, prensa this to do that for them right now. We're just doing that for ourselves. Yeah.
And how is the house? The mainland void? Because your Twitter also is really funny, like, it's funny, it never really crosses the line too far, but it always bumps up against it. Like, do you have the same people running your social media for Mema? And as for 9gag, I have you really just kind of transported that team over
We basically be one new team but this time, I mean, to be honest, right? For Nike ad II, don't I don't work on the front line for some time already, right? It's more like management that kind of style right before where three? I really can fly L meet the team because on one hand, not that many members of our team, they understanding ft or they bought any of the that's why I feel like, hey, this is fun and I bought a lot, right? Maybe this is a time for me to actually
Hands are to be Hands-On again, because this is fun, and this is obviously, the potential is, is, is huge. It's worth spending my, my precious time to on it at this. One thing on the other hand is some, if you like gum answering back to your question, like the Twitter, right? Yeah, I sometimes I manage our Mainland Twitter account. Sometimes I manage our own, I guess, you're my N - you account, but at the end of the day,
I feel like hey how come how come mosa when projects I how come the Twitter? I kind of like that, right. This is like one of the good tools one of the good platforms for them to engage with the audience. Like of course, I mean you will get the most engagement. Be volume means because people will keep asking for your while he's when means and stuff like that, right? But after that you still have to continue to deliver because otherwise how can you build up the the the audience, right? Because at the end of
They was important is not at the time when people look at you, what's important is the time that people don't like, look, look, don't look at you and you still keep working, right? And we learned we learned if I'm not get, we know that this is the way to go for, for a product for for social media brand. That's why we continue to treat whether there is engagement or Not, Right? But at the end of the day, we feel like maybe we can add some humor as some interesting angle way to our Twitter instead of just talking about talk about
our own project. That's why you can see, sometimes we engage Road without user. Some kind of, sometimes we do is Chip posting right. You don't see a lot of our, I would say, team account that does that. But I feel like pay. This is the way to go. Yeah.
That one of the things you, you said, when we spoke last time, you mentioned that, you know, a lot of projects struggle because they just never dreamed that. So many people would spend so much money on jpegs. So they get surprised that they meant out at such high prices and then don't really know what to do and I think that what you're saying your speaks to that like you know, you have to when you're getting started. You know you really have to be ready for those next steps like that. Initial hype that initial attentions really really kind of it's not easy at all but it's certainly.
A skill set and something that a lot of projects have figured out, but it's like the second month of the third month, that really test you and see if you can kind of win the attention game.
Yeah, I mean I mean it's for funny, right? Because because when we first started, we see that so many projects, right? They have those so-called roadmaps? Yeah, and I feel like, hey, it seems like those bitches. Please suspend competition in University, right? It's kind of like some students, right? Make
Plan that sounds so Grand so grades, right? But it would never work. The moment that is started to do that in real life, right? And then that's why we don't we don't have a road map at midnight, but of course, we have some direction. Yeah. But we don't have a road map and that kind of like, gives us more freedom and then to adjust and also adapt to the market right now. I think those are the things that we feel like, oh, although nft seems I so hard maybe not so hot right now at the moment, right? But it's
Really, really early, right? Because even the top team, the best companies right in the space is I want to do here. So I most companies, right? They have a great launch, they have a great one in the bull market, but at the so-called bear market right now, it seems like they're struggling really really hot on one hand because they never seen this before, right. On the other hand is r0, building a good company. It's more than just marketing is more than just at work. Yeah. But these are the two things that people only care about.
When they means a 10 ft. But but, but you and I know that hey we actually have to be a product that's valuable right? But how to manage the mystery on one hand? How to communicate on the other hand? I think those are the things that is kind of like that in science already. Yeah. And those are the things we're still learning, right? But we believe that it's not really that hard because somehow whether it is web 2 over 3, how to build company, I would say it's more or less the same, but how we see our holders, how is your
Now, uses I think that part is the biggest difference. Yeah.
And what have been the big lessons you've learned? Since since launching are as far as how to communicate, how to view your holders. What do what surprised you?
I think I'm, I mean, the, I believe that that different ways to be successful way. Yeah, that's why we pick our way. It doesn't mean that everything. Yeah, the ways don't work. It's just that we feel more comfortable in the ways that we do things. That's why one of the biggest lessons that I try to do is some and I learn it. So can we
We continue our communication, right? This is something that I also learned from from, from Kevin, from from proof is, hey, can we be more communicative? Yeah. But at the same time, can we be also a little bit mysterious? I wouldn't say that we are very good at storytelling. They'll be just because if you know me, I'm not a good Storyteller, right? I can't really create a great law and then some very, very big Vision projects, like Jenkins the writer, right? I I'm not that kind of guy. I'm more like a problem-solving guy, I'm low.
More like poor guy. That's why hey, the law. We just put it there, right? Is fun because it gives people imagination, right? But at the end of the day, we're building something more useful and the role that solves I would say more valuable problems. Yeah and and those are the things that we have to do that but somehow we can say we only do that. Yeah. It's like how you can on one hand and maintaining the the suspense. But on the other hand, you you can't fly wheel is good enough info. So
If people know that, hey, you are different. You're not just like another story telling, or another upward projects. Yeah,
yeah. I know you say, you don't have a road map, but let's go a little bit into kind of what me my land is and and what's out there. So you already mentioned you the real MVP, you know about 350 s that floors like a 27 teeth right
now. Yeah. Yeah. The total collection is like 420. Yeah. We wanted to sell 300 a time. Yeah. And and and we also gave all our team members 11,
One MVP then also give our advisor won MVP because we feel like hey they I mean on one hand we want our team members to to have a skin in the game, so that the care more right there. On the other hand, for high-rises is, I will use their faces. And also our investors, we use it their faces on our launch website. So somehow we feel like, hey, this is, this is a good way to come play at least. Give back to them a little bit. Yeah,
and the have-nots top-tier though. What what are the what are the perks?
Of you, the real MVP like what's what is what does that end of T? Give
you? I would say we think about our collections in three tiers. Yeah and we piece like the first class and then we have the captain's it's like the business class and the potatoes is like the economic class. Yeah. So entropy the whole function on one hand is it's like a premium group is kind of like proof. Yeah. In the proof ecosystem. The poofer that Collective, right? Yeah. And and if you hold the MVP you are
Chotu 23 mins when we launched our Captain's. Yeah, you are also entitled to all the future so called projects, right? That we launched our, you have allowed this and then when you grow your potatoes because for when you pull your potatoes you can earn tickets one ticket per seven-week. If you hold your MVP you will have both a ticket. Yes. So it's like the the boots in the ecosystem. Yeah. So if you hold that you can push up all your other Holdings. Yeah. This is the MVP position. Yeah.
So say so, say more about so you launch potatoes first but they're the third tier, so there the economy class and captains, which are launching. Next is the business class is kind of like, I guess if you want to map it on a moon Birds, you'd have the collective past being the MVP, you know, the captain's I guess are the moon birds. And maybe it's a bad comparison but maybe potatoes are, like, Oddities or kind of like the third tier within the ecosystem. How did you so how did you decide to launch the third before the second? And an
Potatoes going to be able to get captains. Or how's that going to work?
Yeah, the thing is, I mean the the value of a collection doesn't depend on the time of launch. It depends on how much the team wants to possession and inject into each collection. Right. Just imagine, right. If proof mentioned that. Hey, right now. Oddities right. If you own an audit is, you're entitled to all the benefits that proof has right then immediately, Oddities will not become the
The fact here collection, right? So so the time of when a project is launched, it is a really matter that much and we launched potatoes is because at the time the market was super bad and then we feel like a how can we keep up the discussion? The hype about me man, right? And at least for my observation is the best way to keep up the communication to keep up the Hibiscus. You launch something. Yeah, that's why we launched the potatoes. Yeah. And then we launched a Buddhism, to be honest, right? We didn't really think.
Too much. Yeah. But we always believed that hey, how can we make each collections connected to each other? I think this is something that we want to do because from my observation, a lot of projects, they don't do that. Each collection is kind of like separated by oh, at least like good Tia. And then it's like the top here and it's like media. But between each tier, there's no interaction. There is no connection. Yeah, other than other than him, maybe if you hold a top-tier, maybe you would get an airdrop and stuff. Yeah, I feel
Like this is like underutilized, the whole Community because at the end of the day as far as I see, most people who believe in you, they don't my own your whole whole ecosystem. Yeah. But for new users, right? They're willing to buy into a project. Yeah. From the lower tier project, right? And for us because we are not so called Web, three native, right? We wanted to, to learn more before we launch them in collection. It's kind of like, you know, in a more like,
Paul that making sense in the way that you launched our trial product. Right? Before you launch the main product that you soft, launch it. I think potatoes. Give us the XP experience of, hey, how to launch our minting website? How to handle the smart contract, right? How to build a community and not any other company, but an empty community. That is token Gateway. I think those are the things that give us a pretty good grabs of how we should launch our main connection. Yeah, I think that indeed makes more
More sense than hey, you launch the top here. Yeah. And then you launch some some lower tier because to be honest, right for the lower T world. No one here ones. Somehow, when you tell people, this is the Lord here. I think most people don't really care that much. Yeah, so I would say that the way that we do is kind of like unconventional but somehow at least it works for us so far. Yeah.
And how do you plan to make Captain's different? Like what can we expect from Captain's? How will that be differentiated from potatoes?
Should we which we look forward to their?
Yeah. As we mentioned write the value of a collection. Depends a lot on on how the team handle that. Yeah, that's why if we say hey the captain sister is is a middle class is the business cards. Yeah. Definitely. We will give more perks are to the to the collection. Yeah. And down the road is three straight forward because what we see any of t is a we can't just use any of the drop as a revenue Source. Yeah, I think at the end of the day,
The we are leveraging u.s. nft. Not you STI nft to be you are I would say I'm more trusted Community. Yeah so that we can talk to them so that they can be kinda like our focus group. Yeah. And also when we grow we grow with them, they can also kind of like, get more value right now from our success. Yeah, and that's why hey, after launching captains, are the next big things for us would be launching our fungible token. We call Meme? Yeah.
And I think that part is is actually the main dish. Yeah. Because at the end of the day when there are few Collections and also when there are, I would say usable product down the row, how can we link them up right? Because each of them they perform such a different functions. Yeah. And the meme token mean con would be the one that kind of like link up the whole picture. Yeah. And of course, due to the positioning of MEP captains and so potatoes, right? Maybe, maybe they will get
Different amount of meme job and also the tokenization is very different for them. Yeah, go token. Thomas is different for them. Yeah.
Will there be more to the nfte than being a token? Generation tool, rather other aspects that you think are going to be able to help kind of maintain the value over time?
Oh yeah, totally. I think I mean, I mean, it's just wrong, right? Because because this is wrong to say that NF T is like shares in a company, right? But somehow the
Occasion of Tau and, and a token gated community. I think they share a lot of benefits of kind of like building a community building a company together. I think that in this enables and also empowers, the, the whole community and Company to actually build things together. Yeah, because in the past, I mean, I mean, when we were YC, right? The teaching was always like, hey, can you get 10 to 100 user, really?
I really love your products, right? But the thing is people who say that they love your product, the moment that you ask them to pay, they don't pay right then they are not really. They don't really love your product that much but for nft they actually pay first, right? So somehow by Beaver by default they have to like you. Yeah, so they that's why I love people pump their own bets on on Twitter, right? Yeah. So I think that kind of a change the dynamic because they feel like I have a skin in the game. That's why I'm willing to spend more time to make a better product for you, to become the ambassador to the marketer.
Of your future partner. I think that part is really, really powerful because if we can get a thousand people to talk about a new product that we are launching, right? I think that part saves a lot of our marketing dollars 44 44, 44 like traditional company. Yeah. And right now because of our ecosystem, right? We have like we will have like 10,000 or even twenty thousand people who are part of our community, whoever skin in the game, right? I think that part will definitely help to kind of like the end.
The future portal launcher to be more, I would say meaningful and impactful. Yeah,
one of the things that your account tweeted about was holders.com and you the Tweet was something like we've acquired holders.com. This is going to be the platform or this is going to be how some of our web three products. Like what, what, what's that all about? What, what should we expect from holders.com?
Yeah, I can't talk about that much yet because we are still in a very early phrase, but one thing
That I can share some. I feel like
I feel like maybe because because the people who buy and sell nft, they understand that this is blockchain, that's why, when they make the decision, they usually make decision based on numbers. Therefore and also Based on data, right? That's why, that's why nft statistics is so popular, right? Yeah. Because you share adjustable information, right? So that people who don't know how to reach my contract and how to read data, they can understand it easy. Yeah.
I believe that in nft, there's a lot of human psychology is more than just money or monetary value more than just anjing data. Yeah, there are some I would say, intangible value that is not yet capture in blockchain, right? Those are the things that that's why you see a lot of people, they share how awesome their Community is right. They share is great to meet the other holders in real life. I think those are the things that is really hard to find a place to capture all of them.
With some backing some data, write some simple integration with Fallout or tracking and stuff like that to say that. Hey, you are owner of a moon box, right? And then you say, boomba is awesome, right? And I know that why you same on both also, but I can also look at what you say, and how long you hold it right inside? Hey, maybe you just buy it to permit and then come it. Yeah. I think those are the things that should be pretty easy to do. And that's very valuable. Yeah. That's why for holders.com. Our, I would say.
Our imagination for a small I can it become the. Yep. And also trip advisor or castor oil this kind of so-called view, comment website for all things, nft for all things were three because if we believe that any of these, the way, then there are will be more Brands launching the NFP one one format or another right, but basically, there are token there, blockchain related. Yeah. Can we have a place where I can easily find all the information? I
and instead of just have to search the project name on Twitter, right? And, you know, that the Twitter search result is kind of like sucks, right? For this kind of research. Yeah. And I think this is what we really want to build with who that's not calm. And if we can really execute that we don't we don't really need to have a community of like only the meaning Community but every Community out there can be benefited from from this product. Yeah. And at the time we can probably becomes a place together the largest number of referee and
T r+ participants and also holders. This is what we want our 40 this.com. Yeah
yeah I would say there really isn't a great kind of like review site like the Yelp or glass doors. You say like the end at the end of t space doesn't really seem to have that right now, where you know, the place you can go to understand what's going on with a collection or get peer feedback or, you know, there's so much there's just something new every single day so I feel like, you know, and I and a lot of
Amazed. Here is just figuring out if something is even real in the first place, you
know? Yeah, I mean this is kind of like we dickless, right? Because when we launched a marketing campaign I mean traditionally you will place it out so that the world can know. And then we face for with all those social medias companies. Right. You who have better targeting. Yeah. So people who know it who you want to the people who you want them to know, they have a good chance. You know it right before any of the community, it seems like everything you do. You only announced it on
But the people who come back to your Discord is like, only a small percentage of your holders, right? And people who really follow your Twitter and see your tweets, every day is also a small subset of your total holder base, right? Why can't there be a tool to kind of like make it very easy for for our future buyers as well as current holders to see all the information together? Yeah, I think this is such a no-brainer. I mean, whether mean MP will hold a stock or Bond, whether this and other projects out there. I think this is definitely
See if interesting projects to solve. Because when you talk to our nominees,
TV with the first question that he has his hey, what nfe should I buy, right? And then other than you give them the one that you have a mirror on bear. How can they get more information? We talk about the uio out. Do your own research, right? But it's fucking hard to do research. Yeah. In any of the array? Yeah. How can we can have a tools to do that? Yeah. Those are the things that we want to solve at holders are calm. And also somehow, right now, the norm for NFC project is
To, hey, you have to start of this court and do a lot of a trick discard engagement, right? And so tons of channels right inside, but the thing is, people don't really give a fuck about most of the channels. Yeah, so, but this is like a very high barrier for most of the creators and Brands. Now, because if you, like, hey, oh, I have to manage one more social platform called this court. And there are so many hacks, there are so many pots, right? How can I do that, right? Can we simplify that? Yeah, I think tongue roll holder Stockholm also want to solve that problem. Yeah,
so we got a TripAdvisor of nft
Is coming to you via meme land, something like that. Sounds like it's coming from behind and somehow maybe the meme token and and potatoes and yam pins, and everything can interact in some way shape or form.
Yes, yeah. And I think, at the end of the day, we see ourselves are not nft companies, right? Not nft collection. Yeah. We see ourselves as like, a wet free builders. Right, we try to build products, but this time, we don't need to raise
As funding from from, from investors, from funds but we kind of like a do something together with the one who believed in the vision that we have. Yeah. And I think this is better, right? Because I mean for the project from the project standpoint of course you have still have to talk to your holders but somehow you don't really give away control that much. Yeah. And I think that is good for four teams for for funders that have a vision that want to execute. Yeah. And down the road, the more that you build the, the better that you
Later, I explain your vision, maybe you can attract more people to buy into your ecosystem and if they don't like, but they can also sell. I think that's also a higher liquidity, comparing to traditional enjoy investment and stuff. I think, I mean it's like borderline kind of light touch on some some legal related stuff. But I would say that the whole thing's is like, kind of like a crowdfunding. But, in a way that you have aware you to result is of you are the customers. Yeah. You are kind of like an owner. Yeah. And I think that part,
This is what makes it awesome. Yeah.
Second it takes us back to that question. I did want to ask you a little earlier, which is, which is when you like running your business. Now as you do, obviously you have a very successful business in 9gag 9gag. How different has it? Is the business of running an mft project, the royalty Revenue, the mint Revenue, all those different ways of making money. How would you compare running this web three business versus running the web 21. And where do you want to focus most of you?
Our company's
time. Yeah. So not gonna lie. I do spend that much time on. I get right now. Yeah. Because I think focus is pretty important, right? I have a newborn at home, i-i'm already can't let distracted. Yeah. But somehow I feel like we're free is a new future, right? So, so I believe that it would be better for me to spend my time on what three there is cell phone. I get because not give with a good team to run it, right? Yeah. And I think that
The revenue part. I think it's the, I would say, is the most fascinating part of referee to me, because for Media company for social media company, or platform might not get traditionally. As I mentioned before, you have to build an audience Builder, user base, and then you have to find a fun advertisers, right? And then you have to create content and also promote ads that your users don't want. So, there's a conflict of interest between the parties every ties has
The users and also that the company itself, right? But right now, in referee, I mean, advertising, maybe there will be some advertising in different format, but but the Deep, the coordinator is a, hey, you were responsible to your holders way. They can play fun. You at the beginning, so that you don't have to worry about how to make money at the first few months or years, right? And then you can focus on building out your vision. Yeah. And then food oil Tea and Other similar other forms of Revenue, right? You can gradually to be what
Actual company. Yeah, I think those are the things that that, that I would say is very different and also very, I would say, interesting for me and also, the royalty part is, it's kind of like unique right in nft and I think I think those are the things I really like when I'm building in our battery. Yeah,
a few are a few hard questions in the community right now, I'm curious to get your take on. The first is is exactly what you're talking about. Like they're the conflict as more and more projects have been funded by.
I Venture capitalists there's more discussion in the community about the conflict between shareholders and nft holders. What's your take on that? Do you see that conflict there? How do you avoid it?
I think there will be conflicts anyway. Yeah, because even just without invested so even just a team and also the holders, they are already tons of conflicts, right? Because somehow holders always want things to learn faster faster faster, right? And then the team was to launch things at the right time? Yeah.
I think they are always conflicts. Yeah, but the thing is some
With any of tea with referee, I would say that our team usually has a say, a bigger say in designing, which direction to go. Yeah. Because I mean Sam, you are you're based in the u.s. right and you were living in Hong Kong. Although the I would say you can be what company anywhere, but somehow it will be better for you to build a company in certain countries. For example, like the US, the China where you have a big local market and investor and also the stop.
System is more. I was immature, right? And now you can do something here. You can easily go down to the street and then you can make tons of investors and then they are willing to fund your project. Yeah. But the thing is, as a company building for Global Market based in Hong Kong, we feel like, hey, that is not actually the path. That's why after often see funding in 2012, we didn't raise any money. It's not because we don't want. It's because it's really hard to convince people that we are actually building something big in Hong Kong. Yeah, but in where three people,
L, don't care where you are, right? Because they believed in your vision and you execute the willing to fund you and they don't have to be some big shot investor in the in the u.s. Right? Of course there are so-called whales and stuff but I mean no matter how rich I will is it's not richer than 10,000 and of the bias most of the time. Yeah. So I would say that this is our kind of decentralized. You can totally get rid of investors. Yeah but somehow it gives more choices for teams that cannot really go after
Mr. Rao, I think that's one thing, but at the end of the day is, for this trick, for investors, what they look for is return on their investment, right? And for team somehow, sometimes you also look for you'd handle investment, but you also want to execute the vision that you set out to Bill. Yeah, so that I would say that there will be conflicts but with nft with I would say with the so called crowdfunding right? From the, from the community, I think teams have far more choices and
That's why when you see n ft, a good web 3 and N FD team. When they raise funding, right? They usually can have more bargaining power when they talk to investors. Yeah.
Do you have any sense of where your holders are based? Are they Asia baster? I think
it's pretty. It's pretty Global. Yeah, I think we have a lot of us and also a lot of our Asia. Yeah and I don't know if I'm not really as well. Yeah.
What are Hong Kong and ft by like what our Hong Kong in a few buyers like what our Asia and a few buyers like compared to the end of T by addressing in the u.s. Do you notice any differences?
I think generally, I would say that any buyers in Asia. They tend to flip more frequently. Yeah. Because the difference, right? It's more meaningful to them in real life. For example, I'd pour money 4.5. If it actually means something in the actual daily life right now. But in the more developed countries, right .5 is some money, right? But it is not Game Changer. Yeah, that's why they can hold for a longer time and also because most of
Good projects idea from the US when they organized activity. So idea in the u.s. like an FDNY. See right? Yeah. Those are the things that you can really feel and touch. That's why you're willing to hold for longer time, but those are not the thing in service in Asia, because I don't really go to your event if you're if you're NF l a form I just said right away. Yeah, there's no no, I would say in motion involved. Yeah, so I think that explains why some projects, some also some holders, they have different behaviors.
Yeah.
Okay. Other questions. That kind of that. Have been on my mind, I'm curious. You should take. And one of the things I've been thinking about lately, is in NF tease, I think in web to, when I worked at Uber, there's kind of this idea that done is better than perfect. You just, you don't want to slow yourself down so much to make it perfect. I'm starting to think that an N FTS. Once you release a project, once you release a set, it's out there for good. Yeah. It's like you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and investors are very
Forgiving of delays, if what you ultimately deliver is great. So I've started to think that maybe getting it right as more important than getting it done quickly. But that kind of goes against what your strategy was with potatoes. I'm kind of, I'm curious your take there on that idea.
I think most of the time when you look at the best team, right? Usually, they are having, like, conflict, Tekken characters right within that company, right? Even for example, Google Facebook, they talk about
can do things correctly, right? But at the end of the day, the quality that they, they, they put out their right is still higher than most companies out there. Yeah, I think it comes down to the quality of the team, the quality of their product management. Yeah. So I think you're fast is actually someone's very slow, right? And and the competition at the Ubers level Facebook level. They're competing with even bigger Corporation. Yeah, but not like or traditional copyright industry but not like
The newcomers, right? So I think staying at Chow is always good. Yeah, but I think what you mentioned about any FTA, some
because the, the attention span for energy holders is pretty short. So if you fuck up, basically, they can fly for get it, and then they do, will you don't have a chance again. But at the end of the day, also depends on the team. How they manage it. I think, for, for example, um, some important events like means I think it would be important to conflict. Do it right there, so that you launched it at a time, that you feel comfortable, I mean a little bit uncomfortable, but also comfortable enough to put it out there, right? I think some things that can be
Can be done better. I mean, that's something that you have to make sure that is correct. Is a the mean contract, right? It can't be wrong. If he fucks up, it actually fuck up people's money, right? So I remember some projects, like they kind of like roll wrong smart contract. They get 30 million of funds but they couldn't really get it back, right. I think that is like, sucks for all the parties. Yeah, I think those are the things that you have to do it, right? Because this is, like, I would say, one way to session. Yeah. But meanwhile, Force, for example, like that works, right?
That you see a lot of fuck up in artworks. In nft, I mean, people hate that but deep down, if they believe in a team you can just can't fly fix it. Yeah. Because as long as it's not on ipfs or on chain, right? You can still fix it. Yeah, I think those are the things that you can kind of like launch it faster. Yeah. To see the response from the community, right? And and also how to manage the acceleration. I think that part a lot of Team out. There is kind of a doing it back, right? There's no
Les if you don't announce a day. Yeah, I think this is something that we learn yeah, after after launching potatoes. Yeah, I mean you give a rough day but you don't say that. Hey this is the day that we will launch. Then you have to say, I'm sorry. I take the full responsibility and then we have to delay it right. People hate apology so much on nfe there because it happens every day. Yeah, what we should do I mean, what L is what we are doing is up. Oh this is I probably in Q4 may be right.
Always probably and then you add a, i Emoji out there so that when you can fly have to delay, people can hold your works against you. Yeah,
I love that. I love that. If you don't announce a date, you cannot have a delay. That's great. Yeah. And then just just put an approximate time and put the eye emoji and All Is Forgiven. So yeah that's some serious project management Alpha right there from Ray other kind of curious, your thoughts on on royalties. You guys, you guys had a pretty chunky
Royalty at 9%, you know? Obviously right now it's become just a huge kind of controversial topic. I'm here, I'm curious your take on royalties as far as yeah,
this is a fair funny Topic in that, right? I mean one of the new Revenue stream from nft is actually royalty, right? That that was that was like The Bling moment for me when I fall. And this is so great because every time you sell, where you can still take a Cut Rate instead of insofar like,
Optional membership right where the seller? So it to you one time and then you can we sell it, right? So somehow I feel like world is like one of the key element in any of the. Yeah. And then but after a lot learning more Ivo, I just discovered that a royalty is not exit is not kind of like executed on the contract level because it's executed on the marketplace level right now. A lot of people do P2P OTC and then to cover skip the Rowdy and I think it's
Okay, but it's not gray, right? But right now, more Marketplace are starting to support co-presenter royalty, right? And then the first moment that the first impression I have is a, that's why we can't have nice things. Yeah, that was my first thought, say after learning that. Yeah, but but I will say that this is what it is, right? And I see that different projects will have different texts. Yeah, my way of doing business or my way of seeing things is you do you? Yeah. I do me right. But don't say that your way is this.
Stand away. Yeah. Because there are so many ways to win, just like traditional media. You can see tons of people, they just give away free content, right? They can be big shot, they can be great content creators, but there are tons of people, they put their content behind a pay wall, they are still very big, right? So I believe that there's no one way to win, but down the role, I think I'm there will be a majority way. Yeah so if you want to go with the so-called minority way, you have to quit file. Give a good reason for you.
To continue to do so. But at the end of the day, I think just like any other business, right? You can't rely on one Revenue stream. You have to develop different revenue streams so that you can be more, I would say saver, right? Yeah, Pangoro yeah. So I think for us for me, Mainland the UWM, we he is like a very small collection rights like premium past. We don't really care about whether you trade or not. Yeah, that's why we said hi royalty, and then for potatoes. So we said I present because
On one hand, I get on the other hand is a free mean, tester. Only way of Revenue, right from from, from the, from the beginning. Yeah, that's why we also set in I present, but we don't really have fun intention to change at this moment, right? But on the, on the main collection, the captain's will probably still set a pretty high percentage. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, if your collection has bright future people don't really care about your royalties. Yeah, of course, some of them will kind of like try to avoid
But I would say that most people, they are kind of lazy, right? So as long as the majority marketplaces, they don't enforce, the 30 percent royalty. I think most people, they will just buy it there without going through a lot of troubles. Yeah. And I think there are different ways to to handle that. And it's a sensitive topic because no matter what you say, people who live here, you're against referee, if you block certain exchange, right? But on the other hand, if you can't find embrace you represent woe to you.
People who say they hey of course you make so much money already you get funding, right? So you try to Cafe, squeeze out a little player and stuff like that. So there's no perfect way. That's why I always believed that you do you. I do me. And then if you don't like it, just say it, right? If you like what we doing right? You will do my paid a royalty. Yeah, I think, stuff like that. Yeah,
yeah. It always has been my view that if you don't want to pay royalties, you just shouldn't buy enough to use that have high royalties. Like there's a very easy way to avoid royalties and it's just don't buy the ones that have high royalties and they, I
Has been pretty wild how little investors have actually implemented that? I think I'm excited. Yeah I know and people just buy what they
want. Yeah, and also royalties also sort of, I mean, I mean the thing is it's kind of like that, right? Yeah. Of course I know that. Hey Krypto and referee is kind of like permissionless and trustless, right? But somehow if that is the one of them mean revenue stream of the team and if designed not to pay them Ray, why would you? Why why?
Are you entitled to demand more from the team? That's what I think, right? Of course, time to roll. If you are there, the subscription buyers and stuff, right? That's another story. But at the beginning, I always fought that.
Potatoes is a free mean. Yeah. If you buy potatoes but you don't pay royalty, right? Basically, you pay the other bias, right? But you don't pay me, yeah. Then why do I have to care about you that much? Right? So to me and also all the data's are on train on chain. So it's very easy for project to kind of like, hey, Rich are their top tier holders, right? Which are the second here. Hold it right. There are so many ways to kind of, I discriminate discriminate them if we want. Yeah, but at the end of the day,
Day. I would think that there's like a just like a small part of the whole things that we are building, right? We are looking at the bigger picture. If we can execute what we want to be, then the royalty is not even met. It doesn't matter that much. Yeah. But before that, of course, always better to have more Revenue so that the team can can more well-funded. Yeah,
yeah, it is. I mean, it is easy to figure out on chain kind of where world isn't been paid and where they haven't, but I just think it's the last thing that nft creators want.
Do you know? Like you don't want to have so much work to have to tear out who owns what based on if they paid royalties or not? I mean, it's a tack load, but beyond that like, in and you've spoken about this, you know, the way that nft is do well over time as by a community rallying together and feeling United. And I think that this idea of having the different tiers and that conflict that the attic that it creates. And, you know, people not feeling good. It's just, you know, the only way these things work is if the community rallies together.
Gather and feels kind of United behind the project. And I think this idea of tearing out your own, you're older is based on if they paid royalties is. Yeah, I'd be very curious to see if that
way, it's not good way, it's more like, hey, if if you really have to enforce it right then, I mean, I always believed in give and give and take. Yeah, that's what if a project actually ends force that, that so-called here, right? You probably have to also give more to the people
Actually paid a royalty fee, but if you are, but before that, it's from the team's protect perspective. If you can give more to your so-called first here, hold this. Why can't you just give more to the whole, hold the base, right? So that they feel like I only your nft can can can be like our increase in value over time. So I mean, there's so many discussion out there. I'm not an expert in warranty, that's why I don't know. And to be honest, I think no one really is an expert. Yeah. All the soccer analysis, right? Especially the one that is not a project.
Older, I call bullshit. They are because you don't know, the challenges. Our team is facing when they build, of course are tons of rock pool team out there but there are teams that are actually serious about building. You take away the one Revenue stream from them and you say, that this is not the right thing to do, I think you should not buy them at least. Not by the end of tea. Yeah. But I think
for from the someone's going to pay for that for that lifetime supply McDonald's. Right. I mean it doesn't come out of
nowhere. Yeah but also from the project, one of you is also Catholic trick.
Right? Because you're kind of like the vending yourself on charging people. Right. And I feel like, why do I have to defend myself, right? I said a price, you like it, you buy it right? You don't like it. Just say it, right? Don't have to fuck me. Don't have to fuck me, right? Yeah. Just just do it by action inside of your mouth. Yeah, that's why. I feel like all the fat out there, it doesn't really matter, right. As long as you have confidence that you can execute your vision with the resources that you have. Yeah.
Yeah,
last one of us topics, I want to get your take on. I think I've always thought that one of the next eras or the next stage of nft s is going to be bigger companies you know that come into the space and do it right and do it. Well, you know, we've had so many companies try and, you know, and I think there are examples like I thought Tiffany's launch went. Well, I thought daddy does launch went. Well, you're seeing different, you're seeing different kind of like,
Web two companies, come in 2nf to use and and find a niche in here and figure out how to make it work for them. But what would be your advice to companies that have kind of offline businesses or web to businesses? And what are the do's and don'ts when it comes to getting involved in and of
tease? You mentioned about I Theta sin Tiffany right for Tiffany, I think they work with Deepak and also, for I did as they work with gee money, right? I think this these two guys are, of course, there's two and kind of like an Omnibus and dogs, right?
Somehow they understand empathy. And if you quite well, yeah, that's why. When you launch, and you can also leverage their Network to make it feel like something premium, other than your, your existing brand of comparing two different spots. When a Nike, they bought the company behind Kong X-ray. And then humor also launched that the token, right? But you can see the response is pretty different. Yeah, I would say that they all have good resources to make it right. But somehow
How how they launched it it differentiates the the result your by the team that they are working with. Yeah, I think most projects how come I mean not just the the Brenda projects like by big Brands but more like most projects, how come they don't work or how come they can't work is the founding team the founders, right? They don't even buy that many any of these, right? They are not really into energy. The only launched a project because they feel like this is our new kind of way to get money, right? I think that part
Kind of like explains why it doesn't work. I mean, if you want to rock from the beginning and then you can make it work, I will say that you are super, super lucky, right? But if you are like a legit brain, you would actually want to work on referee. I will say that at least you hire a team. At least require them each of them. Maybe they need like 500 any of these in their wallet that they actually bought way and then make that guy, your team leader. Yeah, so that they know what to do.
Dong's offer, good NFD Community. Yeah, and I think that would be the only way that can work because at the end of the day, you can't hire someone who doesn't play basketball right to coach a basketball team. Yeah. And I think that as simple as that. Yeah. And I think most companies they they don't really have that person because nft and whatever is still pretty neat. Yeah. So they just maybe ask a guy to lead the Innovation and stuff and thing. Usually the guy who wants to join the
Operation, right? Maybe they, they may not be their top tier guy, right? I think if you if the company can hide a top-tier guy I think that makes everything easier. Yeah,
yeah, and for you is you write, you spent, something's been over 1,000 Ethan ftes, and just drove in yourself and became that Insider expert. Or did you hire someone from the outside or someone else from outside your
company? We, I mean, because I got some friends and advisers to help eye on me, right? But meanwhile, I this is a joke that I
With me tonight, come with a sir. Most people can't fly play to learn Ray. I pay to learn my actually PA Why to learn, right? I don't really pla why to earn, yeah. So when you spend so much of your personal wealth into expensive jpegs, definitely you learn much faster than someone kind of, like, real of Articles, right? And then comment, back and forth. I think get your skin in the game and then you know how hot the water is, and then you can probably learn how to swim better. Yeah.
Turn.
And and based on all this money, you've spent all this everything you've learned, what your Alpha, what, what are the nft is outside of your own ecosystem that that you're going to be holding for a long time.
I mean, I for me, I always look at the team and also whether they have enough of War chest right now. Yeah, because from the, I mean, if web, to, if he tricked history is a teacher, right? You know, that the company that can survive the winter is usually the one that has a
Tha amount of funding, right? And also off stronger Community. That's why I think right now probably the top communities. I think it's a safer back. Yeah, I and I always because I'm kind of lazy, right? So even if I buy, I don't really think poor fit for profits and I don't teach and that much into Half Life 3 Min and stuff like that. But at the end of the day is always come down to the team then also how devoted they are and it is very, very demanding, right? If you don't see the founder,
The use their pfp, use their own pfp as a true it up over, right? This is one reference for me if you don't see the founders are top to the community, right? This is the second wife left for me. So, I think right now, this is, I would say pretty easy to carve like spot outer The Good, the relatively safe one, I wouldn't say they are good ones, but at least those Founders, right? They have the heart to, to build, they are still facing the community every day. I think, I think, whether they success, they are successful or not, at least you have a good.
Ernie. Yeah, I think that's. That's what I think about nft. Yeah. And also by into our company, that is actually fun. Right. I mean, those people, for example, one thing. One company that I like a lot is critic. But yeah. Basically, it's like favor and, um, be making stuff. I mean, people flip them, a flip for profit and stuff but it's just for fun. Yeah. When you don't have any commitment, I think this is also another good way because you don't have an expectation. People won't get this
Ain't it? So that the flow of won't be bombed, but somehow down the role, if you are kind of like one of the old G's in the space, maybe when people try to buy into that category, they will buy into that collection. Yeah, so I mean there are many ways, I'm totally not a good investor. I'm more like a project maker, right? But somehow I think after wasting or investing so much if I would say that. Yeah, I learned some lessons. Yeah
yeah. There's definitely a magic, keeping things fun, and light-hearted.
It as, you know, but it's not easy and I think I think we're like with crypto dick, but you have such a long neck. They've been around for I think over a year. I mean it's been around for a while and, you know, I think when you have those longer histories combined with fun communities, like it's a bit more of a, of a recipe for success. I suppose one, I mean, when you talk about meeting the nft community where we are, you know, getting G money, getting Deepak getting the peep, the Insiders.
To, to support the projects and advise, like, that's clearly important. How are you? I think the other thing that's exciting about 9gag is that you do have 200 million users from the outside world that you can help on board into web. Three, are you seeing that is something that works or is as a possibility for you and a competitive advantage over time?
I think over time, definitely there's an advantage, right? Because at the end of the day,
We kind of like weird that the team behind the same way, so I think if there's any collaboration is kind of like no-brainer. Yeah, but I won't, I won't be overconfident to say that. Hey, it's so easy to bridge web to and we're free because we are not gay. Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's not the way to go because the biggest difference is seeing content on I get or on our social media. All right it doesn't take money right? Yeah.
Yeah, but meanwhile, buying into nfte, no matter how cheap it is. You still have to pay money. I think even a small sum it will deter a lot of people there from buying. Yeah. Until there's a. Until this is like a norm that hate is very normal, right? And this is something that we want to do with our second product. We quite GM GM which is like hey can we make creating nft as simple as creating a social content, right? But
The Creator can mix some of the other content also the nft some of the content become like the nft so that the hardcore fans they can actually own it they can actually buy it. Right? So it's like a combined of Instagram or Tick Tock and also only events in a way so that oh you can still get a lot of describe free distribution are for people who can't pay. Yeah. And then you monetize them in its way and also you can also got hot coffee.
For users who are willing to own your content and then you give more perks, more direct contact, more direct relationship with them. I think this is a way that is pretty straightforward, right? I don't know which company can do it. Yeah, but we are, this is also another product idea that we are planning to do as
well. So you just dropped it on top of meme, land on top of captains and top of holders.com and top two on top of me I'm gone. You also have something called GM GM coming out soon or not see a coming out of Anjali.
They're coming out eventually not very soon but I mean the
It's a lie step-by-step, right? You learn how to walk and then you have learn how to run, right? And I do it. You learn how to fly? Yeah, for us launching any of the projects. Give us a taste in how to manage the community and then after learning what they need, what they want, what problems would be solved. And we learn we will launch holders.com and then and then, hey, once we get hold of Stockholm, that means what that means. We can get a lot of participants in the space, right? Then it makes sense for us to on Port web to creators into this.
Space. Right? Because most of their creators even if they have a million fans on Instagram, how many of their fans actually by an empty or own cryptocurrency? Right, that's a good question. But if we get like if we have a platform that get is like a million and ftt chance, right? Then any creators coming in. They have a Target pool to to launch the energy into. So, I would say that there's a step there are steps are when we launched the product. But of course, when we, when we say that, of course, the market will change. Maybe,
Launch. Our very successful product solving the problems that we mentioned, right? Then we may not do it but down the role I would say that this is like a no-brainer and very straightforward way. And and this is also a way to show that not because we are big in web tool so that we are super confident. It's more like, hey, we don't know whether we can do it but somehow I think that this is like a safer way after learning in went three for four years. Yeah, I
will say that for someone who says that roadmaps don't work, you still got
Have you got a pretty big roadmap going on
here? Oh, definitely. I feel like road map is like a very bad analogy. Yeah. I mean, that's why we pick a pirate at their theme because it's like sailing on the sea. Yeah, you have North Star, you have a destination, right? But on the see, you have, but in the see you still have rocks. You still have kind of like other shapes. You also have bad weather and stuff like that right, you navigate. Yeah but you don't go straight forward. Yeah I think it's okay that
Kind of fine arrogate a longer, right? But arrive at the destination in South hit. This is the row. I have to go to this role. Yeah, I think the analogy is very different. Yeah. So I feel like so when you when you look at Comics are animation like that, tons of privates Comics over there. There are not that many Comics that to kind of like you are just an Explorer unlike unless that the Dora, the Explorer, right? Yeah. So that you have to go to a destination. Now, go to that role. Yeah. And then the story of that kind of stories, you always.
Is get lost. Yeah, and that's why I feel like a good analogy. A good metaphor is sailing on the sea. That's why the captain's one of the reason why we picked the private sphere, it's also because of that. Yeah, I
mean this concept that you just brought up that I think is so big, you know? It's the idea that you have all these Instagram creators and influencers who are truly like, amazing creators, amazing creative. So I mean, nft is have been built, you know, we have a, we have a pretty strong ecosystem versus two years ago and you
It's in a lot of the people building the biggest projects are not people who Specialties creative, you know, and the idea of getting people who really are phenomenal creators to come into this world, to use it as a source of funds to give their fans, a direct Outlet to them and for their fans to kind of get access to the creators that you wouldn't get you know of someone who has 3 million followers on Instagram. And basically all you can do is like or comment or whatever like that feels
he's like a real use case. I think that's like a very interesting space. You can go
refuse pretty stupid, right? If I'm a Creator, if I have a 1 million fans on Instagram, not super big on Instagram, I probably can make a living but not a very good living. Yeah, but the thing is, if I launch a 10 ft right now, it seems like the matter is, you have to hire an artist to either join artwork or George or your face in different work style, right? And then you launch are like 5K or 10K collection. If feel so disconnected from what I do every day,
And the Wonder people feel like this is a cash Grant, right? Because I don't really like you're at work. I like your daily content, right? I think, I mean, the fuel media brands that kind of launched our past. I think that makes more sense. For example, like Nifty portal, right? And also maybe like fools and I think that makes more sense because it's not like an hour, but more like a membership past year, but for more like creative creators, like the one that I don't Tick-Tock on Instagram. I think it makes sense for them. They are content. Is there
Hefty. But not they have to hire an artist to draw. Another set of n ft. Yeah. The thing is how we can kind of like bridge that and make it very similar. That's is the real challenge. I believe that that day will come. Yeah. But I don't know when but this is some but this is the direction. It's kind of like a we are sailing right? We know that if we kind of like going keep going through that direction, we will see closer that we don't know when but that will be that that destination we will cause it to us. Yeah.
So
final couple questions in five years when people talk about 9gag meme land. What do you think they're saying about this company? Like, well how much of it is dominated by 9gag? How much is dominated by me million? Like, what's your ideal scenario
there?
I think not get what position itself as, as a wet to company. Yeah. Because it's like more like a media brain. And when people talk about I get they always think about he's like a funny meme brain, right? Yeah. So I think I get is always what to? Yeah, but for we're free I think I think somehow we don't really want people to think about me man. As much as we want people to think about mean, corn, they're all the ecosystem that we built because at the end of the day being raised just like a company name. Yeah. But what we are actually building the pole
Step, we have booting. I hope that their name will be bigger than I get that then the movie Big goddamn lat.
Yeah, so holders.com GM, GM. The mean tell Colonel, but things put together. And let's do a little bit of alpha here on the on the captain's launch. How I don't have to tell me anything, that's not known. But when, when are you planning on dropping
that? You'll fall. Yeah, I mean if the market doesn't crash and I I don't die. Yeah, probably came for. Yeah and we probably
Mick you for yeah, I would say. Yeah.
So somebody November type timeline.
Yeah, hopefully, yes, the biggest two eyes emoji on it. The thing is for holidays, I like Christmas and stuff. People are with their family, right? Finally, they go out to touch grass, they find out, they prioritize, family higher. I think those are the times that, that would be a bad time for, for any launches. Yeah, not not just any of these
here. So you gotta beat beat the punch to Thanksgiving. You don't want to be yeah. Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And
Which potatoes are going to get access to it to the captain's. How are you going to decide which potatoes?
We have been thinking so hard about that? Because the minting mechanism I would say is that the first biggest challenge for any project, right? Given the matter right now. Given a market right now. It's pretty dead. Yeah, I mean, I see that some interesting mechanism out there, right? But I feel like oh, it works for that project, but because that project is launched and
then the secondary Market cough like that. I and the people can't fly. Hey, that mechanism. Yeah. But it doesn't mean that that mechanism is not, it's bad. It's just that is good for that project, but not good for me man. Now and I feel like there are some very interesting observation is that
What was the vote for like auction is bad? Yeah, I don't know why, but they assume that option means high price and high. Price means that there's not that much profit left for the secondary Market. That's why the second Market. We will be secondary Market will be bad, right? And I would say 50% of people who are, but who bioenergy is for for-profit. Yeah. So somehow that deters like 50% of people, they may still buy, but they hate that, right? And I feel like he is, people hate your project somehow you don't want them to be a holders. So I think
We kind of like we kind of let test the water to talk about that with our community and people just fucking hit, right? And then we can't like go back and then from the drawing board and then we said go somewhere. Yeah. And basically the way that we are doing is I I would say that this is true to eat pretty Innovative in the in any empty space so far. Because on one hand, we have to handle our allow this, which is a minute. Please on the other hand, we also have to handle our free collection the potatoes, right? And also, we also want to make sure that there's enough in
interest and also our attention from the broader and empty space. So basically what we are thinking right now is up there will be three groups of people mean, think the captain's number one is meaningless. Number two is that the potatoes and we will be introducing something called a whale is. Yeah. Which is like hey, if the potatoes if the meanest people they don't means. Then you have a chance to mean as a whale is. But the thing is, hey, it seems like the parrot is so low. It was the point of getting the way this. This is something that we
So try to in a way a little bit. Some can we give you something back if you means but but didn't get it right? I think this is something that is not yet done. Yeah. In any in any project so far. Because to the project people really only anythi is, the contribution is to contribute. It's right. But for us because we are building a bigger ecosystem even if you don't own our nft right now. But if you were part of us, if you kind of like, give us the trust and support, we want you to be in our ecosystem as well.
Well yeah, so I think this will be we will be announcing more details. I when the time is closer but I think that is like a pretty bulletproof re in this. I would say that market. Yeah.
How many captains are you? Are there going to be
9999 so we select a tanky collection
but definitely can't be a thing where all the potatoes get one right because you already have the MVPs get
into the potatoes get one. Yeah but potatoes has Theory very high priority. Now I think this is also 0
The reason why people buy potatoes, right? I mean, they like potatoes, but they don't really love potatoes that much. They always feel like, hey, I potatoes so that I can get a chance in the main collection. But I think this is so wrong from the project standpoint is here. We spend so fucking much time to do The Graduate view to do that work and stuff. Why would we give up the potatoes after we launched them in collection, right? So the position for us is potatoes will be the companion to the captain. So holding them both.
We give you super power, right? And the row. Yeah. But right now if you whole potatoes are you have a very very high chance to get a captain's. Yeah. So this is our promise to our community but also we want our communities to know that. Hey this is not a condom that you use it for one time. Yeah. This is actually something useful in the Underworld.
Yeah. So you promise that they will probably get
one. The probably get one. Yeah. Somehow they still have to pay. Yeah. You do. Because the thing is,
New potatoes as a free mean so that people in our community who don't have that much resource that many resources, right? They can be part of our community, right? So, and potato for the mean collection, the captain's we probably, we need to make it a payment so that we get the funding, we need to be louder the vision that we have. Yeah,
yeah, I think, yeah. The Fremont matter is like, sort of works and I think at the same time, you know, you may pour it back in, right? He's and a lot of them, don't get it. And yeah, it can, it can kind of be good and bad at the same time.
Excellent. Cool. Well, thank you so much for coming. I really, you know, I when I think, like I said earlier, when I think about n ftes it's just such an attention game. And there are the ability to have a voice and be funny and kind of get viral marketing and maintain people's attention. And you know 9gag just feels like such a perfect fit for that in. Oh yeah. And for some people it's not the version of n ftes that they want, you know, they want more of an art-based, but you can't argue that this is
The version of n of T, is that we have arrived at, and it is so hard to maintain attention over time. And I think that you guys have been in business, since 2008, you know, last time we spoke. You said you started as a nobody, you know, living in Hong Kong. No reason for any. We focus on you. And yeah. And here you are now. So definitely something I'm going to be tracking really, really closely. Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate you coming
on. Yeah, I think the last thing that I want to say is when we were nobody, right? And we started not get, we still could be. When I
I get to today's I would say Soco are chief my right. I wouldn't say success. But so car Chief mine right? Right now with 40 years of experience I older wiser also Factor, right? Yeah probably we can build something bigger right because we learn we understand more how about Porter Management in management, right? And also the tag itself, also enable more people from all around the world to participate in the ecosystem. So I'm super bullish in.
Referee in general. Also, in Midnight in general. Otherwise, why would I spend my time on this project, right? This is a new project for me super demanding, right? I talked to a holders like 4 a.m. 5 a.m. in the morning, right? I enjoy that. But I also enjoy sleep, right? So, I am really bullish in this. That's why I spend my time on it so that I want more people to understand what we are building to be part of our journey. Yeah.
Got it now. That's awesome. I just, I just laugh at looked at your I liked it.
Your Twitter, I Have a Dream by the 76ers and change the name to the, so
yeah. Yeah, just shitposting. Yeah.
How how, how long have you had this account for 9gag
CEO?
I think a few months. Yeah. Wow a few months.
Yeah, and he got to 200,000 250,000 followers, I meet him
Sam. If you launch your own project you can you can hit like 50 150k, easy, but because they are tons of boards and and why Lisa grinder and stuff got it. So I mean, I respect their account that doesn't give away while Esports. Yeah, so you for me. I need
it most. You
never do it. Yeah, but I do mean lens midnight giveaway. I don't do other accounts. Give away.
But when I look at an account with the ideas, I I want to follow it, whether they are can do while this giveaway. I think it's a big factor because with that is like this, a lot of fats. Yeah, it's not much. So yeah.
I've never done a single one. I've never given anyone, anything. Never taken a single dollar. Yeah. I refuse weightless, even if I like the project, I'm just like that. That's, I don't want to build followers that way. So, yeah. And I think this
is this is the way. Yeah cuckoo. I will thank you very much. Thank you.
All right, that is it for this episode. Thanks so much for tuning in. If you would like to help us out head on over to proof, got XYZ and click on the reviews button at the very top and leave us a five star review. Thanks so much. Take care.
