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Hello, everybody. Today's episode is with none other than Kevin Rose. Kevin is a phenomenally successful angel investor turned Venture capitalists as well as Creator and founder of companies like dig all the way to a recent creation 0 which is a cult favorite fasting application that people use for intermittent fasting. We talked about everything from health care and caring for one's health and his personal Journey on that side of things.
To mental health and his journey on the game between the ears when it comes to Creation when it comes to just life and we also touch on the stories that helped shape who he's become as well as talk about a topic that he rarely ever gets chance to talk about that has left me almost speechless because it's it's something that I'm going to be thinking about for a long time and an articulation of a topic that I just had never heard great episode. I think you're going to love it. I hope you love it as much as I did.
So without further Ado, let's get into it with Kevin Rose. This is below the line and we're lat. Mr. Rose. Welcome back to the
program. Thanks for having me again. Great to be on
I'm really looking forward to today's chat the the last time we recorded this was about
Year ago and you had me on your podcast. So we got to have me just Yammer on for for an hour. So I'm really excited to catch up with you where I get to ask you the questions and and really get to hear what you're thinking about here. And you know, August of of 2020. I want to kick it off with something super simple, which is your full-time venture capitalist true Ventures. What is the last investment that that you made that is?
At least public.
Yeah, I mean, I'm it's funny you mention that because I'm sitting on three Investments right now that have been made but are not the company's not ready to go out and publicly announced they fundraise. So the last one that we did publicly was your which is guided journaling app to help people.
I'm an angel in that actually
I mean so you know what, you know quite well just helps people get started and with journaling so many people have that problem when they get presented with a blank canvas that they don't know really what to write or there.
The first day but not so much the second and this is some beautiful prompts to help you log your mood and and really kind of get things out there and just share into this encrypted little vault which I think is good for Humanity in general. Yeah. I'm an investor. So it either sounds
biased or or It's the Most High Fidelity recommendation out there because I put money into it because I loved it so much, but you had yours an amazing way to journal and and keep it will not only kind of keep the journal going keep it, you know.
On you with you at all times with your phone, but also the prompts are really really special about it. But walk me through how that came across your desk what you were already may be thinking thematically. I want to know the real specifics into what went from the first touch point with this theme of journaling, which is not something that that Venture capitalists talk too much about it's not it's not a hip, you know, Mega space that that you know Tech blogs are writing a whole
About just your first touch points with the theme all the way to the first touch points with the actual company and concept. Yeah. Well Max was
introduced to me CEO and founder by another friend who he had worked with in the past or they were friendly with that had built an app called Sunrise which was a great calendar app that then sold to Microsoft and one of the co-founders and designers on sure had also worked on that project and I'm just a big fan of kind of design.
Sign lead Founders Founders that take it seriously and care deeply about that and they were very excited about pursuing, you know, a project in the mental health space and I look at that as one of the like the pillars of longevity, like certainly if we don't have a sound and stable mind that's going to lead to not only problems right now, but certainly ones in the future with all sorts of things whether it be business or relationships or or just, you know able to have a good night's sleep. Like all these things hinge Upon A sound mind, so
I think that the Isle of Investments that don't aren't necessarily, you know blogged about or talked about because that's what you want to find is you want to find those Trends early, you know before they become big hit so, you know, the headspace are calm seven or eight years ago, you know the before they become household name. So when I look at journaling in general, it's been the apps that have existed out there have been very much a good word processor, you know something that is very good at
Of allowing you to see different dates and you know, very good at markdown and being able to format and things that nature but they haven't really been paired with professional assistance on the more on the psychology level. So that people have meaningful prompts to encourage them to share private things. You know, they think that there's there's a difference between going in and saying I had a great day to day I went for a walk and I got a bunch of emails.
And sharing something really deep and meaningful in the sense that the release that comes with letting go of that information putting it on in a space or out there to the world. Just getting it out can help calm that down and serve as that kind of release for that individual to let go of those emotions are at least loosen them up a little bit and there was something really cool about the very simple prompts and and quick sharing that your
Was building it wasn't about can I spend an hour doing my daily journal entry. It's like I have 10 15 minutes. Can I get something out that's meaningful that allows me to take a break in my day and get a little piece. So that was that was exciting and I think that you're has some it's still early days. I think that there's I'm hoping that this becomes a space as big as as meditation yoga and some of the other, you know mindful type practices out there. I certainly believe it's as important as they are.
And and even focus is a little bit more bones than a little bit more on on the emotional information getting out versus just physical. So it's a product that I wanted to back and if we had not invested it true. I would have you know invested personally because it's just so important that this exists in the world.
He had is a man there's so much to unpack there that I want to dive deeper with you and for listeners Kevin is one of the best was one of the best angel investors in the world from investor in Twitter and Instagram, I think
even Facebook as well. Is that right?
Yeah Facebook. It was a little later Facebook than then I wasn't like it at very early first round Angel but I did invest once they had kind of gotten off the ground and started to grow. Yeah. So it's
the the rap sheet is about as stacked as an angel investor can get and then you went on to become a full-time VC. I'd love to know how how you have had to shift from an angel investor.
Set into a venture capitalist mindset if there is a shift at all or how you've had to change your approach to investing when it comes to a large three four five million dollar check and with true Ventures behind it. Has there been a shift in approach?
No, I not really I would say the only difference is that you're just writing larger checks when you're doing it for a fund versus doing it individually, but a true we're very lucky in that our fund is very much focused on.
Tan their earliest seed or series a stage with an emphasis on as much risk as possible. Meaning that we want to find something when you take on a lot of risk, there's obviously if it works there's there's a massive upside for both the founders and and for you as a venture capitalist, but the way the fun was structured. We have a 300 million dollar fund every check out there that we write is typically between
And three million dollars, so we're kind of betting right around one percent of the fund every time we write a check and and when it's only one person the fund it kind of creates less pressure for the entrepreneur and and for us as well. So we know that most of these because of how it really they are most of them are going to go to zero and that's that's totally fine or have, you know, an outcome that just returns capital or whatever. It may be but as investors, we don't
Put we don't play like a heavy hand or try and force entrepreneurs and doing something that they wouldn't want to naturally do on their own so we can be this kind of like awesome partner that doesn't try and push them to a certain outcome. But really just is a partner that we're also fellow Builders. We've all built stuff in the past and and some of that can come in with kind of more of an entrepreneurial type hat than say someone that just went to business school and it's never run a company. So it's a little bit
The different approach than say other funds that right much larger first checks that have a lot more on the line. I've certainly been there and I know you've been there as well where you have investors that it's clear that if this doesn't go well for them like you did the partners going to lose their job or it's going to look bad on their own they're firm. And you know, I've had investors scream at me over the phone.
It's a shame.
Right? Right just like these stories where you realize that
that yelling doesn't really fix anything. And in fact, it just makes the situation worse. So rusher pressure over
pressurizing. Yeah. It doesn't really fix anything as
well. Right? Yeah, exactly. So I feel that I knew when I wanted to go off and I want if I were to do the VC thing and I just be an angel investor it would be under someone's roof where that was going to be the way that they LED their firm and I feel very fortunate.
The trews backed a couple of my companies in the past. So I've got to know it in see it first hand over many years and that's why I decided to work with this team.
It's into it. So it sounds like it's an evolution almost like an evolution of Angel Investing where it's one percent of the fund. It's not five percent of the fund and it's one of your three investments in two years that has to be. Yeah, like you said it has to be something that you need it to be something that then leads to overpressurization good. There's a good
amount of pressure and then there's the diminishing returns of pressurization does. Well. I want to talk about true and in the Venture investing in the here and now a little bit more in a sec going back to the mental health side of things what turned you on to longevity to start with and because it's it's it's something that's intertwined in in almost everything that you're curious about on your own podcast in your newsletters amazing newsletter, by the way for people to
Go check it out. It is Kevin rose.com. Awesome news letter that you write. And what was the what was your first year absolute first introduction into the crazy space of longevity.
I would say that I've always been fascinated with health and wellness and in particular Alternative Health, but I say that under I don't want to make it seem as like woo woo health because I think that are the kind of name.
Health or there's a few other names are being used today for this genre of Health. It can it can be flooded with misinformation or or just you know, false claims. And so I'm very careful that when I look at what's out there. I realized that well, I guess there's two things that that led me here one is that I looked at doctors and realize the information that I was receiving from doctors was outdated. It was just often times when was get a job.
How how old were you when you started early in my
mid-20s, you know, I remember I think yes, I remember it. Actually I decided to give up something for New Year's for in 2000 the year 2000 because everyone was doing their New Year's resolutions, you know, I'm just really young in 2000 and I just was like kind of give up like I like, you know what I drink a lot of soda and like everyone is like pretty you know, we all know Soda is bad for you, especially sugar soda and like some would argue even the artificially sweetened sodas and
it's just empty calories. Lots of sugar lots of glucose spikes like really bad stuff. So I wanted to switch to green tea because I had read some stuff online about green tea and my physician when I had these conversations about things like green tea back in 2000, you know had no data or understanding or anything. They're like, I don't know what you're talking about. He does right really behind the times. These are like career, you know at the time my physician was probably I don't know 55 or 60 years.
All to be like that and and was well into his career and we kind of didn't really keep up with the latest and greatest information. So knowing that Physicians are the last people not the last people to hear about it really depends on the position. Obviously some are quite good and do keep up with the latest science, but it led me to understand that the most important research that that and and information that we need to be consuming as individuals is published science.
Ideally by high quality universities that have a had set up the of the the proper double-blinded placebo-controlled like the gold standard for high quality science. And so if you can look at those studies and you can figure out your way around them because they're not they are fairly tricky to read depending on you know, how much Matthew took in school if you can figure a way around that there's so much fascinating information that you
Lies the public doesn't have yet like it's available. It just hasn't been spread to the masses. Right? So it was understanding that that led me to get to know people like dr. Andrew Weil and some of the other Physicians and scientists that we're reading all this published research as it was coming out and you know trying to jump on these Trends on the earlier side because I just realized that I should be embracing the science now.
Now versus waiting for you know my doctor to tell me about it a decade later
right mainstream consensus versus yeah just the important things being being done right now, yeah keep going
yeah, so I don't think there's
there's never really been well I guess there
was a focus long quote unquote longevity at some point but then later I realized that it's not really about because you can go crazy right you can go down the rabbit hole and become one of these biohackers that is so over the top of the
And to optimize every little facet and I think I know Tim wouldn't mind me saying this but you know, Tim Ferriss is good long-term longtime buddy of mine and he was like the one that really got me into all this bio hacking stuff. He was he was very very early in this space. And you know, I remember going to Kim's house and like opening up his medicine cabinet and like he had he showed me his supplements and the dude had like a Hundred Bottles like or more of just like the most random crap and he would always be
no, you got to try this guy trace and give me like give me like stuff to go. I remember one time he gave me like beef liver tablets on the way out. He's like dude try some of this like blah blah and like it's like a little bit and I don't think Tim is like that today. He's not is is Hardcore as he once was but we both had a little bit of that sickness of like, how can I tweak every little last component and you're not going to find peace in that that's going to be fun and I feel right this yeah and ending and just like a this
Session over numbers and blood data and some of that is okay. I think doing a blood draw a couple times a year and doing a little tweaks and making sure that you know, you're staying within the lane is obviously great but going overboard is you know, I have to be careful because I'm the type of person that obsesses over things like that and and and I have done that in the past.
Were there any specific times where you like? Okay, I need to disconnect from over-optimization on this or any obscenity obsessive moments where like
well, okay. This is a little
too much a hundred percent. Like I had experimenta. Dwith a bunch of compounds that really jacked me up for a little bit. So, you know, I tried things like I read a story about how nuns back in like Medieval Times used to use high-dose saffron in there like kind of rituals and they call them like the the nuns would just like be giggling all the time. They would have this like great Euphoria from high-dose saffron and I was like,
Sounds amazing. And so I started looking into high dose saffron and want to see like these mood-altering effects of high dose off around in like I didn't realize that at higher doses. They can cause some liver toxicity and liver damage and I took them for a bit and just realize that my liver numbers came back from the doctor and they're go super elevated the like what's going on and I felt like crap and I was like, oh crap. I've went a little too
far. Yeah,
so, you know, I've had I've had
Like three or four of those things with different different sub
supplements. I can completely empathize I speaking of beef liver. I once took bovine adrenal glands and it's ground up into it's a pill so I'm not eating eating it raw like out of scene from Last Summer he comes but it was the, you know pharmacological equivalent of just eating these adrenal glands from from cattle and
It made me feel great for three weeks and then led to kidney issues adrenal issues of within that fourth week and that I had headaches for about six weeks after that and that's when I that was probably seven years ago when I was first getting into this whole world of biohacking and started to take it from then on it was like and I knew what I was getting into. I knew that there was going to be some biological cost. But from then on I was like I want to make sure that
I feel better on Day 70 than day 7 better on day seven day one and better on day seven hundred than Day 70 like whatever. I do needs to have this progression continual progression rather than these short-term burst and there is something to be said for research being a little too nascent to on the Forefront to where it's just like, you know, it's it potentially too risky. What was the connection between all of those things and then did it go
From optimizing the here and now to extending life and Longevity for you in some type of Continuum. Did it switch to okay now I want to think about 50 years from now because I know you're super into the longevity stuff and that's a world. I don't know very well compared to your expertise in it. Oh, yeah. I think that on the
longevity side, I would say that there's again there's the hardcore the people that are
taking off label rapamycin for Atop The G and the crazy things that happen with with that drug because it has been shown in animals to extend life and like that's that causes like it's an immune suppressant is to use for organ transplants very powerful compound very insanely promising. There will probably be some type of analog that is created off of that that does some great things in terms of longevity. But right now, you know, I would say definitely fall if you're
This type of stuff the Peter Atia Drive Peter T is my kind of primary physician longevity specialist. He's fantastic and has the team of researchers that pours through all the latest science and distills that down in these really amazing interviews. He does with the scientists. I would say also Rhonda Patrick found my fitness her podcast is fantastic another scientist doing great work. They are the ones that more recently have inspired me to look at various things, but I think that
That the most exciting stuff I would I would say on a one to ten ten being the most hardcore in the longevity side. I'm probably a six or seven and it's not really difficult things like is thankfully. It's nothing really scary like for
me. Yeah, what do you do today? Yeah.
Yeah why I created zero the intermittent fasting app here about three years ago four years ago something like that. It's been a while that has now grown to be quite a big movement then the idea of intermittent fasting so I try to incorporate 16 hours.
Daily fasting seven days a week and at least 13 all the other really compelling science around some of the benefits appear around 13 to 14 hours a day, but I typically go for 16 to 18 if I can that's really helped me in terms of My fasting glucose levels. That's another thing I track so fasting in general I think is just a great tool to have obviously the most important thing is going to be a diet not high in processed foods, so not eating any processed food.
It's so just doing real ingredients that you can recognize that a grocery store and figuring out ways to get creative in cook those types of things especially in season ingredients is huge. My wife is fantastic at that she wrote a book on it called foodist. That is that is great
quick. Shout out to Darian and she's a neuroscientist right turned
nutritionist. Yeah. She got her PhD in Neuroscience from UCSF and then she decided to put
Of that kind of skill and knowledge and expertise and and working in science and reading papers to more of a slant on helping people find lasting lifelong habits that they can create that don't that aren't tied to dieting no tied to real food. So that's kind of a big passion of hers.
Yeah completely under discussed topic. But okay, so zero and intermittent fasting glucose monitoring.
Yes. I do a continuous glucose monitor. I think the Dexcom has the best one out there.
are there is a start-up out there called levels health.com that you can actually get your own Dexcom monitor prescribed through that website because it's kind of hard to you know, you had no money to get a prescription from your primary physician and your primary physician probably going to look at you like you're crazy if you try and get a glucose monitor, but just keeping your glucose levels in check making sure you're not pre-diabetic making sure that your spikes don't get too high learning which foods are the your biggest offenders meaning when your your gut
Breaks down food how high do your glucose levels go and then how quickly do they return back to a normal healthy
Baseline? And do you mind tellin telling listeners? Why that's important.
Yeah beat there's just been so many different types of diseases and issues related to their being excess glucose and in the body and and issues around insulin sensitivity. So not only does it lead to pre-diabetes and then diabetes, but they're even calling, you know, there's many
Is that are calling dementia and Alzheimer's like type 3 diabetes and issue a glucose related issue. So, you know, there's a bunch of issues around having too much glucose creating inflammation in the body. And the inflammation is obviously linked to a bunch of different types of cancers. It's just it's just something it's a very easy thing to have installed. You can do it for a month and just track and and see what happens when you eat various Foods, at least then you'll know you can you know, then just do away with
Device and just do it once a year for a month at least then you'll know what your big offenders are meaning that everybody has a different gut biome and some people have no problem breaking down. Let's just say popcorn other people. It's a massively big offender. Like for me of the crazies examples how many times have we been told on the health front brown rice is better than white rice, you know, it has more of the grain intact. It's more nutritionally complete. I'm sure all of that is true. But with the way that my gut breaks down brown rice.
Rice, it sends it up as high as white rice, like super high on the glucose like a hundred seventy five kind of high, which is just insane when I'm trying to say stay a hundred and twenty or blow and it stays elevated and that's an issue for me. And then I realized that I wasn't really good at disposing of it glucose. My elves would stay elevated higher than normal for longer periods of time. I'm eating like a few hours or overnight if a too late in the night and that's important to know too because you can do things like Zone to cardio to re sensitize.
Muscles so that takes up more glucose and gets it out of your system. So there's little hacks like that. You'll learn from listening to do to Peter t as podcast. He has a great episode on zone two cardio and Rhonda Patrick like you listen to those two and you're set with the latest science for sure. But yeah, I would say so glucose I'd say 23andMe getting your genome done so that you can understand what genetic polymorphism morphisms that you have. So these are the column SPS or Snips that are these little everyone is has these different little
Snips these different genes that are that are turned on or off that was essentially are now linked with various different types of issues or diseases. So, you know, there's one called apoe if you have it for a 3/4 or for for you have a much higher risk for dementia and so specifically Alzheimer's disease. So if you know you have that snip one it's a very important thing to know because you can live you can change your in modify your diet and lifestyle based on knowing that.
And you know potentially there's been a lot of more recent research around on higher dose of high-quality Omega-3s that might help with people that have that type of snip Rhonda Patrick the scientist. I mentioned earlier she has and she's publicly so that she has one of those she's a carrier of one of those nips. So she has a lot of interesting research and papers on on that but just going through and analyzing those jeans. So what you do, here's the trick that they don't tell you on 23andMe is website like
you get your 23 me done in you log in and it's like hey guess what your 23% this and 5% this and that all looks great. It's like your eyes are most likely Brown you like. Okay. I know of these things right like tell me something interesting about my jeans, right? And what you have to do is you have to go in the settings. You have to export your data. So you export the raw file you download it that you take it into the Rhonda Patrick's website. I have found my Fitness website and you upload that to her analyzer and then her scientists have gone and created.
Did all this database of all these Snips in the conditions that they're linked to and then once you analyze your own genes, it'll tell you which ones that you have and what to do about it. So for example on mine it says hey you have something called the MTHFR Gene, which means that you're a poor absorber of B vitamins, which means that you might are likely to have elevated homocysteine, which is a blood test that you can get done. And if you have higher home, but more homelessness in your blood that
Is that your a greater risk for heart disease and dimension if you have a things, well, you should never take the results of that test as the Bible like you just like look at it. And you say okay. What am I seeing here? Can I now back this up with my own blood work? So for example, it was saying I had you know, a potentially had a high homocysteine went and got my blood work done and sure enough. My home is do was hide just like it said that led me to supplement with certain B vitamins and bring it down to healthy level. So it's just that
Of your genetic makeup and then if there is an issue knowing how to go in and treat it and this is something you would never hear from your primary care physician, right? But I'll tell you what in a decade you will right but this is just like this is what's going on right now, but without a doubt in 10 years time, everyone will be talking about this and there will be personalized medicine and supplements based on your genome and it is if you want to get on that train now and and understand what's going on and you know, obviously the
The sooner the better in terms of trying to find if you do have any issues that you can address them. Now, this is what you have to do.
Yeah, the Andrew Wiles been on the the podcast before any talks about something that just floored me and I have not forgotten since is that the US doesn't have a health care System. It has a disease management system and and you have to care for your health. You've got to be the ad you're the shining example of this.
But it is
up to us to actually go on research. The best practice is the best habits for us to be sensitive to them to realize hey eating healthy isn't just a nice to have or a bonus or a feel good thing because you're you know shopping at Whole Foods, but it's it's quite critical for us to take these things seriously in our 30s and 40s for them not to be an issue and we're 70.
The other big thing too. I have to say and I see this so many times because this happens all the time with friends of mine and is a trap that almost everyone falls into they will be on some Health Website somewhere. My mom. Does this like all a lot of my quote unquote, you know friends that are into Health do this. They'll send me an article being like I am going to get some bee pollen because look at this article and you read the article and it's like it hears this and it does that it does that
and there are
just millions of
those types of claims and articles out there on the internet and the internet is so good at convincing you some fancy website or some other website repurposing a press release somewhere or some you know, study dumps the more you have to go and find people that you can trust that are looking at the science again back to that a placebo controlled peer-reviewed double-blinded like real science not backed by and you have to look who's sponsoring The Sciences
Science being
sponsored 1000
University of never you've never heard of by a honey
company by the car honey sociation of America and it's like correctly man. You really can drink five five cups of coffee a day because the study is a six-week long study with 30 individuals and it was funded by the coffee Association of
America. Yeah. That's that's the other thing is like how many people were in the study is that enough to have significance? Like there's there's it's just important that you that as a consumer, you know where to look for high quality information.
And otherwise it just it's so easy to read the something and believe is truth when it's not. Oh,
absolutely. I mean, I remember when I was drinking six seven cups of coffee. I remember being like I don't think this is healthy, but let me Google it and I'll Google it and like some CNN article would come up that was just a repurposed PR push from from the coffee Association of America or something like that and it is you look up who's funding that and it's Starbucks is the largest donor.
To this Association of coffee producers and and you'd it's it is so intertwined with magic mind we've been approached to do clinical studies. And now I'm seeing it from and a few thoughts here for listeners that just come to mind is one. You can check out and just search YouTube for how to read medical research papers because it is a it's a worthwhile 10-minute video. There's a few of them out there, but they're great ways just to bring you you think that in the show notes.
Yes, I will so
They're
like because I think it's so important. I think I Peter
T actually has some papers on this as well. We should try and dig those up on how to read. Yeah published science.
I would I would love to will link to that in the show notes and that 10-minute a 10 minute video can be a one of the highest leverage Investments you could ever make for your health then to do exactly what you're saying is looking at the studies or just adjust even reaction are really looking at when something is sent along your way or when something hits
USA Today is it legit or is it bullshit and and having that and a few of these things are the Red Flags? It's not very many participants less than 50% participants is that's not great. If it's not placebo-controlled double-blind meaning the the actual researchers don't even know what pill they're handing to to one of the patients because it's if they know it then and it's not double blind and they know this is Placebo and they know that this is the real deal then they treat it differently.
I can obfuscate the results.
Yeah, it's sometimes not even consciously right some of that just the fact that they know it they will they on accident make small tweaks. It's just crazy how this works. Right right be very careful and the methodology is so sound to do this, right but it's
also so easy with magic mind. I was approached by a firm that would do a study for us. And then I was told this is such a behind the veil moment. It was like, oh you can do this study and then you just don't have to publish it if you don't get
Results that you want people to know about and then they were like an and we can replicate this or do this study a second and third time and and try to get the results that that you would want. I was like, holy shit. That is what if you are reading about a study most likely someone especially if it's in in a mainstream News Channel or new periodical there you're reading about it because someone wants you to read about it and it is you know, you follow the money, but I think what you're touching on is so so valuable all the way to the point of
Having the people the resources that you go to that are doing all of this diligence and looking through 50, you know results of of research around a certain space to find the one that's worth promoting. The one that really passes their smell test. What who are those resources again just to repeat for listeners. You've got Peter Atiya
and his podcast that Peter Tia drive. That's a fantastic podcast. I highly recommend listening to that one Rhonda Patrick and found my fitness, so
Found my fitness.com and you'll find her link to links to her podcast and also her genetic tool there as well. Right? I would say that those those two are my go-to sand that they're not just a solo podcaster. I think there's some other interesting Health podcasts out there, but they they're just speculating a lot of the time. Whereas I know both Peter and Rhonda have full-time scientists that work for them that analyze the papers and research and create summer.
Is and they are really driven to the truth. They're not trying to sell anything. Neither themselves supplements. Like it's just they don't take advertising me them take advertising so their podcasts are sponsored by individuals coming in and donating. So it's like it's that type of just clean Clarity that I like from from my sources, you know, I don't want any any potential weirdness there and neither of them have that so it right
Rhonda Patrick even she refuses to do advisor.
ER or any type of she doesn't take any shares in any companies that she works with from what I understand because she was is trying so hard to avoid avoid any mixed signals or mixed incentives. Yeah the and then you also mentioned something really key which is with 23andMe. There is the their own user interface, but I think they're I think legally they are just and risk just when it comes to the risk of putting something out there. They're not going to
You ends of the Earth to put all of the prognoses out there for your given genetic your genetic markers, but found my fitness like you said, you can export it from 23andMe and uploaded to found my fitness all those things were there. So important to just want to underscore those things.
Yeah, and one of the things I would say that's important in all this is that I would you know, we're just a fellow kind of people trying to figure this out as well. I think the best thing when you
Get your results run through Rhonda's product. There's going to be a lot of stuff most likely that you just are not familiar with and this can be a great time to sit down with your physician and bring those results to the table and walk through some of that stuff. If you have a physician that said that to it
that brings me exactly that's such a good point and it makes me ask how did you find the right physician for you? Because it's you already touched on most of them are working off of data from
From 10 or 15 years ago. How would someone go about saying? Okay. I'm at the Forefront of researching these things. Now, how do I actually find a personal physician that is on the up and up on this stuff?
Yeah, you know a doctor while has a directory of Physicians that he's trained that we can link to in the show notes. That was a resource that I was using for a while. But really it was I know that sometimes when you see an MD / naturopath you can get a hint that they care about more than just
Just medications and they actually can turn to other products to help you heal. And that's should be the first line of defense versus just you know, throwing a drug issue. So, you know, and then also obviously looking at just what we're they went to school is important day. I try to find someone that has a degree from you know, a solid background in the medical school that they went to but you know nothing is
Is more powerful than just going going and meeting someone and actually walking away like I've gone and done meetings with Physicians paid for that initial visit gone in you know, just talk to them for half hour about how their practice works, but they care about you can learn a lot on their website, but I would say that if you can find a solid MD / natural path or someone that that has those other designations associated with their MD. I think that's that's probably a good place to look for someone that's that's that's
Open to this type of stuff.
Yeah, and it is a there are a couple different terms out there. But yeah Integrative Medicine.
Yeah, that's the integrative medicine is the is the big one? Yeah. I think you're
you benefit by searching for a doctor that has that somewhere in their bio online and and even things like Yelp can be a really great a really great channel to find a try to find those doctors. I know with another tool that I'll mention on the topic before we move on to mental health Wellness FX in California. I don't know how many states
They operate in but just what it does Portland in Oregon. Do they have Wellness FX
I have used them in California. But yeah, they're they're they're fantastic for for for
people that can get it. Yeah, so I'll at least in California wellness and then the letters f x.com are great for a blood panel and you can do it. It's you know, if you really want to go all out a $600 full blood panel for a bunch of different biomarkers that then you
you get a 40 minute consultation with with a physician that is obviously curated because they're thinking about all of these things and and they're they're up on the current research. So that's something that I highly recommend doing that once a year is I think it's worth every penny for 600 bucks. It sounds expensive but I found every single thing every single time I've gone in I found some type of went in and found my escena Phil's was elevated. So I had some type of allergic
Reaction, but I didn't feel it and realized that I was allergic at 33 this a year ago realized. I was allergic to mildly allergic to eggs and it would cause it would cause fatigue about two hours after eating eggs. And that's why I would just crave another cup of caffeine of some sort and realize. Oh, I've got elevated a scene of Phil's there's this is tied to some allergic reaction. I'm having let me try removing a certain things for my diet and and retesting and
Realized oh shit. I was paying a biological price to for my morning two eggs every single morning. And and I ate that for like 10 years had no idea until my blood panel showed elevated a CFL. So that's something that is just an example of how how tactical the information can get from these types of things. Okay. So unless you have anything else to mention on this this topic of longevity or staying up on the most up-to-date and
Research that's being done. Right now. I want to touch on on Mental Health, but I'll pause there in case you have because you are a wealth of knowledge in the space. So if you have anything else to add, yeah, I think
that's great. I think yeah, there's just so much the stuff is evolving so quickly, you know any recommendations that I would make today in terms of like the things that I personally take and things that I do would just change over the next six months. So those podcasts are just must listens, right and they don't come out that often. That's the cool thing because they're not like a talk show.
Show it's more like this is one drop with an amazing scientist. And then Rhonda will have one come out like every three weeks or so and heaters the same like every couple weeks. So it's not like you're like 20 episodes behind like that'll never happen. It's like there's just a couple a month to listen to in your and your drive or what when you're at the gym or whatever it's so true. And so like it's
like, you know Christmas when you see what a new episode from them because you know, it's not oh they had to fill a lot on Monday schedule it.
going to be something that they found that they felt like, you know, was it above the bar of their standard to publish and that actually is a side note semi unrelated but
Isn't it fascinating in 2020 that you can you can listen directly instead of needing a mainstream periodical to amplify one piece of medical news or another and then also having you know the potential of like danaans going to pull their their you know advertising. If you talk about the negative effects of dairy, if you're you know, CNN or something, it's crazy that you can hear directly from an expert. It doesn't need to go through like three.
Three three lenses that you know of a journalist that's writing on
Christmas the best.
Yes. That is crazy. It's it almost I think we're so in the the boiling water. We forget how different that is in 2020, but you get to Listen to Someone Like Rhonda Patrick for free and you know, if you turn a patreon it's a great way to support and get extra extra info from her but I mean her or Peter Tia, it's it just blows my mind that we can hear directly.
Italy from these people that are curating all of their I think there's something like 800,000 new articles published a PubMed every month. So that is 800,000 you have these professionals that are going and sifting through these things, you know for free. It's I don't know if you have any thoughts on that but it blows my mind that in 2020 you can hear directly from these
experts.
Yeah, I mean it's it's nice that we're cutting out. We're giving a microphone to like say scientists. For example, like they're these are people that are live in the lab and the fact that they're able to get their voice out there. There's a hundreds of thousands of people like as the research is coming out like just talking about, you know to earlier point about the length of time going from you know, 10 years to where your doctor finally reads about it somewhere and then recommends it to you being cut down to you know days after the science that
really hits the street which is just
fantastic. Mmm. Yeah it is and it's them as experts interviewing experts. So the we have the scientist that they're going to have onto their pod cast as Ronny Patrick, for example her being a scientist as well. It's just it's there. There is no muddy filter or manipulated curation of we can't talk about this health Trend. So Nick's that story. It's really it's really fascinating. It's such a it's a
Beautiful Trend that were that we're going in. Okay moving on to mental health and and just because you mention it withdrew or what started to get you more sensitive to that that Trend or where where did your own mental health your own specific Journey with with this space. Where did that start?
Well, I would say it started when I was much younger when I felt as though when I was in my
early 20s, I kind of had this moment where I felt overwhelmed and kind of rudderless in a way. Where the where were you I was I was in Las Vegas at the time and it was there because my family had moved out there when I was much younger and it was my dad was an accountant and it was the place for him to find work. And so I went to high school up there and and and and started college out there as well. But
I just kind of didn't know what I wanted to do. And I had a bunch of pressure from a few different angles than I had a little startup idea that I wanted to launch the had not worked out and all these things that I hit me once and I just started having just bad stomach pains and was like chewing on like, you know, Tom's and Pepto-Bismol and and I realized my brain was just churning and grinding on itself if that makes sense.
Like it was just like and and then I got obsessed with with just health related stuff. And like I just I couldn't let things go and I realized that I needed to do something or find something to help with that. So that's when I first started kind of reading about meditation and and having a curiosity around that thankfully a lot of that stuff went away as I got older, but I think it's
It led me into the world of wanting to just figure out how to tame our mind in a way. Like, how can we control this thing? That is so uncontrollable. That is constantly looking mine in particular looking to the Future and trying to predict outcomes. Some people have it to where they ruminate over the past. I don't I don't have that so much, but for me, it's it's all about future thoughts and what ifs and scenarios and so what better thing to try and spend
And you know time on then then then getting this this Beast under
control, right? Yeah. It's
like it's like the most important thing like it once you have that you have I feel like you can you can do
anything right? It's a great servant terrible Master kind of thing. Were there any takeaways you mentioned some of the things from longevity that that you do from the fasting to glucose monitoring or are there any things that have stood the test of time on the mental side? It's always good to hear from you the things that
You know that you've done for longer than six months because you hear from from people or friends of the the newest of the new things. But what is really stood the test of time for you over the last 10 or 15 years that you've been more sensitive to the space. That is hell. Yeah, I think well, I certainly
believe that if if and when you need advice from professionals, it's it's there's no shame in going out and sitting down and talking to someone I didn't use this personally so much as I did when
my wife and I were just about to get married and they were both kind of freaking out and there was like all these weird things all coming together and finances and relationship stuff and new everything. Right? And so we went and did some like marriage relationship counseling and that was such a great thing to give us the tools to be able to have conversations and really tools to be able to figure out on our own like you know, and
To say we would never go back to do that again, but just I think that there's certain things just understanding that you're both on the same team and that you both want the outcome that is best for the relationship. And so it's not a this person's against me. It's can we come from a place of working on this together to an outcome that we both want just little shifts like that little small things that I think can make a big difference in a relationship and I would say that for me meditation.
Ian has gone through ups and downs and left's and rights and all over the place and that I started a the pasta practice. I then went on to do the Zen practice and then went on to do Transcendental Meditation and then fact back to back to more of a pasta style and I've now landed on what I'm really happy with which is a certain sect of Zen called sambo
Zen. Yeah. Do you mind giving a break down to
Of all of those three or those for now vipassana Zen transcendental. Yeah and Samba the sure so the the
more kind of traditional meditation that you read about mostly the mindfulness-based meditation. This is what's considered more the vote pasta style which is you know, the classic following the breath mindfulness approach. And so that's taught in most of the apps that you see in the app store today whether it be the head space is probably the first one to do it.
It cam Sam Harris is waking up which I think is in my mind. If you're going to pay for a meditation app, I would say Sam has the best month long course 10 minutes a day for a month. And he also goes the deepest in terms of interviews with different practitioners and theory behind meditation and it's more than it's not prescriptive meditation. Like I think a lot of these apps are well, I guess the first and most important thing.
Is that you have to really decide and ask yourself the serious question. What do I what do I want to receive out of meditation? What is it that I'm looking for? And if you're looking for a fix for anxiety for fear of flying for any of these things that come up if you want a fix a an outlet way to just cultivate a little bit more presence and release these things. I think almost all the
Snaps the high quality high rated High reviewed ones do a great job at this they tend to be more prescriptive in nature. Meaning that you can go into comments say I have a fear of flying or headspace and say I have I didn't SOS and having relationship issues. Like let me take the relationship pack, you know, there's like a pack for everything and I would say for 99% of users that is going to be your path. Right that is going to be the way that you experience meditation for. Most likely your entire life. Now there's
there's a group of people that believe that meditation can be something much deeper and lead to Awakening and insight and you know for lack of a better word kind of more of an enlightened type state that many people have achieved over over over time and have you know written accounts of and in fact there I would say there's there's quite a few people living today that have achieved this type of State of Consciousness and in Zen they would say that is you know, the
resolution in the really the dissolving of a kind of a dualistic state of me and other so really a combining them in a view of seeing things as one interconnected and and really just lack of separation between us as people and it's certainly something I have not achieved or not even close to it, but it is something that I train towards so when I now practice these days
It is through that lens and working with a teacher to try and get guidance every few weeks so that I am on that path. That's a very different different practice, you know, and I both are are worthwhile Pursuits and and can lead to great great benefits, but you have to be really pretty dedicated if you want to go down the ladder path in terms of mental commitment and time commitment as well like, you know,
I would say if you're taking it seriously and going down the route of of Zen that would be something where you probably are going to commit at a minimum. I half hour to two hours a day along with these off-site Retreats called stitching where it's like a five to seven day morning till night kind of practice a few times a year.
And you Tha that is yeah.
That that's you know, if you're if you're really all in right right, so that's what that what it takes. But it's exciting. It's a fun. It's a fun
Journey. How how long have you been on this on this side of the journey the you know going after it all versus yeah, like, you know solving been solving something small.
Yeah, it's been I was I was sitting for longer periods of time when I went to the San Francisco Zen Center Way Back many many years ago.
No, but that
particular sect of Zen was it for me? It didn't really so there's a it's a long this is a long we could do a whole body guessing this but there's this
a this is what it's all about. So, please do ya long version to these answers for sure you have it. There's there's
different lineages and and different types of zen-like. There is the most famous ones are Soto and rennes I and Soto is more.
Or the traditional kind of just sitting Zen. Whereas rinse I put a little bit more emphasis on Cohen training, which is are these unsolvable riddles kind of the most famous its importance ample but it is the most famous like the sound of one hand clapping, you know, that that type of thing where they they they are these riddles that are used to gauge progress by Zen Masters. So meaning that you will sit with the
He's different types of ancient Zen riddles and overtime when they have absorbed and kind of manifest in the right way. You will have these realizations that when you give these answers back to the the zen teacher, they will understand that you have achieved a certain stage of practice
and that's
that's what a what a CO n is and and there so that's my next stage. My next stage is my first stage and in my training
is is really just to get to a point where I can sit with a somewhat stable mind for an extended period of time and then my next stage will be to introduce my first koan so I highly highly highly recommend if this it all sounds intriguing to you checking out Sam Harris has app he has a section in there not the main guided meditations because his app is not as in training app. He has a section in there on Cohen's the
By Henry Stickmin who is a fantastic zen teacher here in the United States and their little 10-minute introductions to Cohen's and you can do I think seven or eight of them there and then if you like that and you're like, this is speaking to me, then you can check out my podcast I did with him ring and he'll give you a lot more guidance on on kind of where to go and what to read and how to get into this type of
training will add that to the links in the the show notes. This is so good. This is and it
Really is what my audience cares about? Okay. So the and I'll add to the the Sam Harris podcasts are the same Harris the meditation app on one of his podcast episodes. He talks about why meditation is so is so important in its and it is a visual that's really stuck with me. He talked about the during the the covid crisis and about maybe three months ago or so one of the health officials that was speaking on TV you saying
That it's the health official advice is a few things mask social distancing not touching our face and then two seconds later. She licks her fingers. Now, she's I saw that thumbing through her her paper. That was that she's really is so so hilarious and so Mema rific for the internet, but what he said it was so powerful is the reason that we meditate is to know what we're doing.
and in that situation it was someone that couldn't have more knowledge and yet couldn't apply that knowledge on the most public of stages to limit our self from from touching her face much less liking her hands and and it was such a I probably thought about that 30 times in the last three months of the power of meditation being and I meditate each morning and have and was was
Have a dad that taught taught us to meditate when we were really young and that is such a great visual of just such a great example of you can have the apps. You could be the expert in the room that everyone needs to listen to based on the knowledge and information you have and still not be able to apply it in your life because so many of us myself included have no idea what we're actually doing despite the information that's in our head and
And you know we can behaviorally betray that information. So often in life, especially in Creator ship and Entrepreneurship when you just know what you should be doing and and you could write it down a thousand times and yet you're just so absent-minded to where you're not applying it in your day-to-day
life were well, I mean, you're not training right like it requires like any other skill. It requires you to put in the effort and time and dedication.
And in real focused dedicated training that is is in serious in nature is not just you know, doing it while there's pain but doing it when when things are fine too, you know, that's that's that's what the the issue that I always ran into us like Oh, I'm a little stressed out right now meditate for a week. I feel great. This is working don't meditate for three months, even though it's like rats that I think that's the common Pitfall for a lot of people and and
That's unfortunately that's not leading to a whole lot of progress it helps in the moment. But but it's not doing any like lasting neurological changes to the brain.
Amen. Right? We should be investing in our mental wealth like we invest in and anything and anything else, you know, incrementally and and over a long period of time. That is awesome. I want to ask my last two questions unless you have anything else to tie the the mental health aspect of your approach to life.
If you have anything to tie that that segment and a bow, please feel free to mention it because I know that dear you've got a wealth of information and if you've tried so many different things to find what works for you.
I think that's great.
Okay, awesome what my last two questions for you or the two questions that I ask every guest but I never asked you this in the first episode we did a year ago, which is second to last question is tell me three stories of your life that have helped shape who you've become
Okay be professional personal could be when you're four years old or three months ago, but three stories that have helped shape who you've become
yeah, for sure. And I appreciate you giving me access these questions ahead of time so I could think I know through the only
ones that I said beforehand right because they're little they're the kind of bigger questions.
Yeah, they can definitely stump you I had to sit with them for a minute to for the for the answers to come. So I think that without a doubt my parents think my
It's allowing me to experiment on things that I probably shouldn't have been experimenting on led to my curiosity and creativity when I was younger. So I thank them for that meaning it. I remember one time. I had an old pair of Nikes that I had worn quite a bit there were on there like kind of like last legs and if you remember back in the day Nikes were I guess they still are they were very expensive shoes and especially the Nike errors the
And that showed the air bubble if you saw an air bubble on the side of your shoe, you knew those were next to like 40 or 50 bucks and they would have other Nikes that did not have the air bubble which were the ones that my parents could afford for me. And so I felt very lucky in that. I got a pair of Nikes the said Nike Air on them, but did not show the air bubble. So I knew my mind I'm like, there's the air bubble in there somewhere. You just can't see it and my parents were going to spend the extra money on on the air bubble. So I went out in the garage and I kind of
Open and took a saw and I saw down the back. I was probably like 11 or 12 or something, you know sawing down the backside of my shoe with the saw
my parents like what are you doing
as like I need
to see if there's an air bubble here
and and sure enough there was an air bubble in the shoe. It was not as big as the ones you see in most they other Nikes, but then I was like they were like, they're little bit past but I could tell they were kind of like thought it was interesting.
That I was like curious about that so they didn't get too pissed and then I pursue did you use a hot glue gun to glue and some Springs in the back so I could jump like Michael Jordan. Yeah, that works because the way the springs and that are missing. Yeah. Well, I thought well if I could just like I could wear this to school and I could have the springs in the back and if I can dunk how cool would that? Right? Right and it's so, you know, I don't know where I found these Springs, but I found a couple Springs in the second. I stepped on the Springs like shot out of the back of the shoe like they weren't held
him.
But I was like that that
exploration in the garage and my dad showed me how to use various tools and allowing me to kind of explore with those things. That was I want to make sure to pass that on to my kids. It's just like, you know, you know his parents there's nothing is going to come out of this but kind of but but allowing them to feed their curiosity, which is obviously something that's really important. So that would that was a great experiment that I did that
I remember very vividly. I would say later in life. I did something called a 360 review which is where you can hire a coach to come in and interview 10 of your friends or colleagues and I did a mixture of both five colleagues and five friends and they interview them completely anonymously, so you never will know who said what and they asked them a series of questions about your blind spots what you do? Well what you could use help with and there's a hose
whole slew of questions that that they then put into a booklet and present back to you as an anonymised version of the way people perceive you and there were so many insights that I gained from that 360 review and things that you know, you just no one will ever really tell you and it's great to kind of review that and go through it and look at those things from time to time and say how have I really worked on that that bit and and just to be
Be put your defenses down and just say I you don't have to get defensive about this information that's coming back. It's not all going to be positive.
It was early so they know painful and in some ways but yeah, so worried about
you can't change the reality of the way people perceive you right and in that moment, right? So what you're seeing is a true reflection of how others perceive you so that's unjust that you can't dispute that information, right? So just knowing that is it was really helpful and making some kind of changes.
Way I interact with people and and yeah, there was a lot of learnings there was a tougher one to do
but what were some of the things that have stuck with you or at least that worry shoes then that you've been able to tackle, you know, I think it was just
like the biggest one for me is that I was really bad at so I always thought of when people would invite you to things or to do things as it being something that I would nonchalantly.
Say yes to and then later Bay along. So it I would often times think of those things. That's just optional. So someone is say like hey, I'm having some friends get together on Friday. Do you want to come over Bri? So yeah, it sounds great awesome like and then later bail on it thinking to myself. Oh, there's four or five other people there. They won't miss me. I got other stuff to do I'm bail, but that was damaging my perception in their minds and also it was upsetting because they were planning on me being there and like things
I would just easily discard meant a big deal to other people. So understanding what those things were and how they were being perceived by others was was super helpful. It's a great. Well, that was that was one. I would say the third one that and I wrote These down ahead of time. We already covered it was just was really at some point deciding like enough is enough. I'm in my 40s now, like let's take this meditation thing seriously and see where it leads and I don't know if that's going to be I'm
hoping it's a 10 20 30 year plus journey. I don't know if it's going to be another six months to a year, but I have never approached a practice with this much dedication as I have more recently and I'm excited for that and I'm already I'm already seeing a lot of the benefits in terms of just my mind calming down and I can notice I can tell you for sure when I sit now for a half-hour my mind is a lot less.
Jumpy, then. It was just a few weeks ago and that's because I had not missed a day and it's and it's not orders of magnitude better. But the rough edges are starting to kind of like sand down a little bit like it's getting a little smoother. It's still extremely difficult and it's like I tried to do a 45-minute one day and I was like I can't do this is I my too much and so I knew to back it down stick with something that's still manageable and eventually I'll be trying to work my way up to longer and longer sits but
It's fascinating to see now after a few dedicated weeks of this starting to see signs of improvement at all. Although very miniscule. I am seeing little little signs, which is because it's a little small wind. It's very
exciting. Yeah. When did you at least make the mental switch of okay. I'm going to start taking this much more
seriously after my podcast interview with Henry very cool. I interviewed him and and I just I read his book and I was just like wow, this is
He has a really fascinating life and history with within and he did he had a lot of similarities in terms of like the way that he initially approached practice and then how he kind of got into it deeper and deeper and he also studied Transcendental Meditation briefly. And so it was just it just cut the book kind of spoke to me. And and I was I was excited to give it a go What's the title of his book one blade of grass his the title of his book by Henry Stickmin awesome highly highly recommend it.
Put that in the show notes as well. Okay, awesome. And then and yeah just a just a touch on those. I think the parents it's interesting. One of my other favorite podcast guest was Mike Maples on episode 2 and he talked about I mean, all three of us has stories had to do with his parents and and I think that it's something when winner and our 20s or 30s. It's easy. I know in my mind. I've just be a when I was in my
It was like everything good or bad that happens to me. It's it's up to me and being a parent having a two-and-a-half-year-old. I'm it's so transgenerational and we are we I think it's as critical as we inherit the the sins our virtues of our of our parents and they were all you know imperfect and in are going to pass on our own shortcomings, but also potentially our strengths to our children, and I'm
So thankful that my parents also gave me a so much latitude to explore and encouraging it's kind of like the William Blake quote of fool that persists in is folly becomes wise and just letting a child persist. It's going to lead to wisdom. If it also means that our lead to destruction of their of the the brand new Nike shoes you bought them but I think it's a it's a great example of something that really does shape us and these small and major ways and
Then all the way to meditation there's kind of an interesting through line to giving your mind that same latitude and saying okay. I'm going to sit here and I'm going to let it do its thing, but I'm going to take this really seriously of or sincerely of I'm going to commit to this path of letting the Mind do its thing and and let it persist in it's Folly and potentially become a bit wiser. So there's is interesting through line between those two.
Okay, last question for you Cairo it is what is something that and I've been looking forward to this this question. This has been a tough week. Hope we get an answer. Well, whatever it is, it will be
the truth and it
will probably open my eyes to that direction. The last question I have for you. I've been looking forward to this the last week leading up to this episode. What's something that you think a lot about that you rarely get a chance to discuss and again, it could be personal could be
National maybe. It just doesn't come up in conversation. But something that takes up a be an inordinate amount of mindshare in your head that you rarely get a chance to to discuss.
Yeah, I mean, this is something that I wish. I wish I had a
forum to do this and discuss this because it's something I don't know why I care so much about it, but it just comes down to
organizing my brain in my information with the goal of having a very streamlined clean process both digitally and physically, so let me let me explain that what I mean. Is that how can I stream line every process in my work life my personal life capture the information and store the information on the right way with the goal of reducing clutter.
And hopefully reducing the mental burden that comes with all of life in terms of the things that you have to do and pay attention to and the things that you own. So an example might be what if I figure out the best possible way to scan and store all tax-deductible receipt so that the end of the year I know exactly where they are. I can hand them off to my accountant to process another example might be
what if I come up with a way to catalog the items that I own so that I have warranty manuals where I know that they are and where I can see overlap and reduce the amount of things that I own so I've been big into trying to figure out how I can live with less in terms of physical objects because I feel that one of the greatest issues that we face today, especially in the United States is this idea of experience stretching where
We look at things items and are presented with both in terms of the media everything that we consume a lot of it is about setting yourself apart with physical Goods that don't actually lead to anywhere but more pain everything that you own is a small burden on you, right? You know, it's remembering to clean to fix to repair.
To upkeep to protect there's there's something associated with every little item whether it's you know, a cluttered garage or a closet with too many clothes or you name it. There's just
write the kind of canonical examples like about it's like never owned a boat because it is just insane maintenance and yet you look at it as an idea. It's like oh that's Freedom. You can be out on the water, but it right or if you do.
Something that requires that how can I how can I make sure that it has the least amount of impact as possible and streamline owning something like that or it doesn't have to be a boat but let's just say, you know a car for with maintenance or you know, like how can I make it so that like, for example, I use Rome research which is a note-taking app that has a really kind of crazy underground cult following it's not big yet. But I have a feeling it's going to be massive definitely check out the YouTube videos on on room.
Research but I used the catalog and remind me of things like when my next you know, maintenance is due on my car or when you know, I need to have certain things done on the house that are required and it drops that mental burden right of having that just as a background process that is under Tangled that is the like spinning there and you'll never get pissed when you're like, oh I forgot to do
that. There's like stuff like oh crap crap crap crap. It's like
Weeks late I should have done that, you know and it's like that's a horrible feeling to have like go off like a firecracker and you're like body like just like boom like shit like a jump on this and if you can get it out and get it down and get it categorized then all of that goes away. And then also just like the biggest piece for me recently is just been elimination of things. Like how could I not have to have the latest thing and for that truly that feeling to be
Truly gone, that's why you know, I'm purpose like I'm not I don't have the iPhone 11. Like I have a crappier version of it, you know, and it's like, how can I force myself to not be sold by marketing or looking at somebody's piece of property or watch your fancy this or that and saying like that will make me happy when in reality it just won't and so
with that with everything that you're saying right now would would Kevin at 25 even?
Nice these thoughts.
Did you have any kind of these? I would I think I would I would feel their true, but I wouldn't have I wouldn't have followed them is or been as interested in them as I am today. Yes, it's
something that is a decluttering life feels
like I so
I talked about this with Andrew Wilkinson on on the podcast few weeks ago and it was the thing in my head was
Does the iPad pro magic keyboard and it was this stupid little example, but it was very real example of like I cannot wait till that gets here or I actually was before I bought it. It was like should I buy this I know that it is not going to it's not going to be this missing piece. It wasn't a car wasn't house. It was just like this keyboard that will make it easier to type on my favorite electronic device and
It represented like existence to me. It was like, oh I if I could get that then I can truly just
right. Well, I had exactly then. Yeah, please so the first tack is when you're doing your daily notes in Rome and you write down first noted. So say I want the iPad and you can link it in Rome and say I want the iPad Pro keyboard and then you could do / date picker which will bring up a date picker and then you can say 30 days from now and then
Then hit enter and done. It's out of your brain now 30 days from now when you when you log in to a service like Rome, you'll see it appear at the top and they'll be like hey, this is just like back up in your inbox. Now look at the very top like you still want it and if you still want it and that's that's passed one hurdle. The second hurdle for me is the this idea of owning threes. Like it's I don't know why it's three of my head but it's just that's what it is for right now. If I have more than three of one thing it's most likely too much me.
Why do I have three technology devices? Yes, I have my laptop. Yes. I have my phone. Yes. I have my iPad. So I'm not going to buy that new fancy Android phone. I'm not going to buy, you know, whatever may be like can I in and then kind of Pare down from there? But just making sure that that I don't ever pass that and I've been doing it too kind of crazy things. Like do I have more than three pairs of tennis shoes?
Yeah. Yeah. Like, how can I how can I pair that down
to the the absolute Essentials and in some cases three is too many and
Other cases it's like the perfect amount but I've never found that I've needed more of three of anything. That's
great. That's a great rule to live by
it's just something I'm playing with right now, but it's it's been the latest Obsession.
Well, it's a great note to end the conversation on and and it's a topic that I think it's it's probably decoy if I can utilize it to decluttering a one's mind in life. It's something I think is probably on a lot of people
Lines and the other isn't really a forum to discuss it and it is so hyper personal that it's probably really really difficult to find different themes between people on the specifics, but it certainly certainly resonates with me of this curiosity of what this thing solve all of my problems and you you try that out enough and you realize no it doesn't and then you look at the stuff you already have you like how the hell?
Do I just manage all of the Clutter and noise of all of these these things that I do have?
Yeah. Well the the the whole concept behind experience stretching is one that I need to go in further on because
it's it's a crazy thing right? It's like tell me more. What do you mean by experience stretching? I'll give you the quick the quick
little version of it. So what it means is essentially once you've experienced something that you perceived to be of greater value everything beneath. It is now of lesser value and no longer as equivalent. So
Interesting for example take
anyone for a third world country and they would kill to have the water in Flint Michigan. I'm not saying that Flint's water is amazing because obviously we need to do some serious work there and fix the issues. It's insane that it's happening in this country. But what I'm saying is that there are are levels of everything in terms of luxury and and and not even luxury but just in everyday Necessities right like in just
Living day to day like do do you need to have the fancy? Well, I would say I was going to say bed but I would say that sleep is a very important piece so finding the right match sleep on is important but like, you know, whether it be an upgrade for a car or you know, a certain type of home improvement or an extra like there are some fantastic $25 bottles of wine out there, you know, like you just have to hunt for them and make that the new game not the $75 $100 or more bottle of wine like theirs.
There's ways to
stretch your current experiences that what is that? What the the mental Amos but also going back
down and re stretching the other direction, right?
So just
understanding that I can go live without this for a while so that I don't get used to a certain type of of luxury or demand it for my happiness. Right? Like I don't have to have this special thing in order to
too too kind of pacify me and make me content. I don't have to have the fancy fancy this sparkling water or whatever. It may be like I can go back to two things that are very very very very basic so that I don't know when the next time I see a reality TV show are a watch something and advertisement being thrown at me. It doesn't hit me the same way with the same amount of curiosity and desire that it would have before and so that's I don't I don't have
The playbook for this but the question you asked me around, you know, what are the things? I'm I really get a chance to talk about but things I think about this is the stuff that I think we need it all figure out as a society. Why can't we find contentment? You know, why does there have to be it's sad, but I know I have even personal friends that you know worked in the the Bay Area and if they didn't make a certain have a certain outcome with their company, they were severely depressed afterwards even
Oh, they were making six-figure salaries, but like severely depressed because they didn't hit that, you know, make several million dollars and it's just like stuff like that is just like so disconnected from from well-being. I just I you know, it's like that's that I know I'm sitting in a position where where you know as an investor and having had some good outcomes. Like I feel very fortunate to be able to say those types of things. I know it's not easy but no,
but I
And I would actually say you're the perfect example of who should be saying it because it is that it is that mindset and we touched on in the previous podcast episode you would experience failure and it was it. Will you still remain Unstoppable and even then we're able to find ways that it happened for you instead of just the world happening to you to wear. Then you go on and become not only a great Creator but deal with zeros a perfect example where it's a cult favorite.
Creation in parallel to also being great investor. I think you are the type of person that should be saying versus I think we both know people that
That will fail and choose OK I am stoppable and they don't know that they're saying it but it's like I'm stoppable and I've just been stopped and and kind of peace out. You never hear from them again versus the resilient types that say, okay. Yeah this I didn't hit a home run but shit, I'm now on third base and I much further than where I started.
Yeah, and I think just reimagining what the base is look like. Yeah,
right.
Third base could be running a fantastic coffee shop that you're content with and your you really care about the beans you Source from these amazing little farmers and having pride in the service and quality of the things that you offer versus the outcome. I think in that shift can be can be a big
one. Right? Right. Well Kevin, thank you so much. It was great to hear about your insight into Healthcare mental health to the stories that helped shape you and then finally in this and this
A fascinating one that's that. I have a feeling he's going to stick with me with experience stretching it is I'm looking I'm currently looking at so many damn pieces of musical equipment and I'm always thinking alright with this new piece of equipment or this new type of guitar or keyboard. It's going to have some illusory effect on on my contentment and experiences experience stretching is making me want to just go back to the first thing that I'm and I'm looking at the first one I ever bought.
And just stretch that like hell verses and that make that as you as you put it make that the new game versus, you know, just trying to find the the next $100 down a bottle of wine are exactly well Kevin. Thank you so much for the time the
generosity of the time and the Insight. Thank you James. It's always a pleasure to be on your show. Thanks for having me likewise.
Thank you so much for coming back on and where can people find out more about you and true Ventures.
Sure. Yeah, if you just go to Kevin rose.com, there's links to my true there there's links to my podcast and my newsletter as well. I have my newsletter is only sent out about once every six weeks and then it's a combination of just the things I've been thinking about some of the cool links that I've found around the web books. I'm reading things like that. So it's been great in that. I have a pretty high open rate on it. I think that's because the people that they're read it know that it's not about more email. It's about really taking the time.
Wait till I have enough of something to say to publish it and then hopefully there's some good stuff in there that you'll enjoy as well
which I love which I love as opposed to. Yeah, it's similar to the pier Tia and Radha Patrick. It's just when there's good enough stuff. It's going to go out versus yeah once a week or you know, just kind of on on you know, just basically kind of copying pasting just to fill just to fill a weekly email so I highly recommend the newsletter and a new podcast.
Thank you so much, Kevin, and I hope you have a great day. You too.
But but but but
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