If you're struggling with your diet just can't sustain those healthy eating habits, you're not alone. Might I suggest the plant power meal, planner our digital tool box of unlimited access to thousands of customizable plant based recipes integrated with grocery delivery. Experts support seven days a week and so much more. And if you're looking for the perfect holiday gift for a loved one right now, we're limited time, we're offering $20 off meal planner gift cards through December 15th.
And visit meals dot Rich world.com to claim the offer again for $20 off meal, planner gift cards from now until December 15th, visit meals, Rich world.com, do it now. Okay, let's do the
show.
I deeply believe that you can heal generalized, anxiety. I believe that through learning how to experience that alarm that goes off, that is completely normal. When you feel separate when you feel invisible, when you feel slightly nervous and learning how to give yourself the love and the reassurance that you didn't get at, whatever moment it was that this alarm started going off, sub 5 years old. I think this is
Game-changing. We let our feelings, dictate what we do, and we have to do the opposite. If you want to change, you have to lead with the actions that align with the way, you want to feel, the research is conclusive that when you are critical of yourself, it destroys all motivation to act. And so if you have a bad day, congratulations. You're breathing. You're
A human being. Please do not beat yourself up, Shake It Off. Look at your list and pick something. You're going to do tomorrow. The Rich Roll podcast.
Hey everybody. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today. Back for round two is the ever inspiring one. And
Queen of grounded. Science, backed personal development. My dear friend Mel Robbins, Mel is crazy, talented. She super authentic and just has this knack for cutting through the noise and the bullshit and telling you exactly what you need to hear to get off your butt, and in to action. And she does it with a smile. She does it with compassion and wisdom, born from a lifetime of both success. And more importantly,
Epic failures. Mel is a former lawyer turned CNN, legal analyst, talk show. Host, Mega best-selling, author of the five. Second rule in the high-five habit and one of the most widely booked public speakers in the world. And after absolutely dominating in the world of audible only audio books, Mel is now branching out into my territory with the launch of her brand, new podcast aptly titled, the Mel Robbins podcast, which immediately upon law.
Munch skyrocketed, no surprise to one of the top shows in the world Mel truly loves helping people overcome the patterns of thought and behaviors that hold them back so much so that she begins our conversation by speaking. Some kind truths into my ear. And from there we go, deep into Metals recent breakthrough in her struggle with anxiety. What she learned and experienced during therapeutic MDMA sessions. We cover marriage therapy
Parenting mindset and just tons more, and it's all coming up quick but first, this episode is brought to you by better help for many. Many, many years, I prided myself on myself will my determined ability to make things happen, at least in my mind, all by myself as a student as an athlete. But when my mental health began to deteriorate my beloved self-will,
Ended up becoming an enemy to the solution. This false belief that I didn't need anyone to talk to you to solve my problems. I just needed to buckle down and try harder. And it took me a long time to finally realize that. I couldn't think my way through difficult emotions, I couldn't battle My Demons or solve my behavior problems, all on my own with the same mind that created them in the first place and as a result I suffer tremendously and also unnecessarily and I don't want that.
For you. I want you to realize sooner. What I only realized later that talking openly honestly about your pain about your troubles with a trained, professional is absolutely crucial to getting better, which is why I love working with better help because they are making access to Mental Health, Services easier and more affordable than ever as the world's largest therapy. Service better help is matched. Three million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available.
100% online plus it's affordable. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to mesh with the therapist. If things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist any time. It could not be simpler. No waiting rooms, no traffic, no, endless searching for the right therapist. So learn more and save 10% off your first month that better help.com / Rich role. That's better help heelp.com /. Which role we're also brought to you today by
EG 1 by athletic greens. Look, we all know health is dynamic. None of us are robots, or health needs Change Daily and it's impossible to have your diet be perfect 100% of the time but it is easy to beat yourself up about not being perfect. It's also easy to set an unrealistic goal that you kind of know, deep down, you're likely to abandon. But here's the thing, the way forward for
basically,
anything starts with small decisions
The left's practiced consistently and there are few things easier that can make a big benefit than a simple scoop of a G1 in water daily. It is so simple and so powerful because a G1 is essentially your whole vitamin cabinet in one, scoop Act was 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals Whole Food, sourced superfoods probiotics and adaptogens. All of which are formulated to help you start your day right? They support
your gut health, your nervous system, your immune system, the improve or enhance your energy, your recovery your focus, its anti-aging all the good things and they keep innovating iterating on the formula always making it better. So there's no need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. And right now, athletic greens is giving all of you guys a free one-year supply of immune supporting vitamin D, plus 5, free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit
Let it greens.com /, Rich Roll again, that's athletic greens.com /, Rich Roll to take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.
Okay. It's always an absolute pleasure to spend time with Mel, but I have to say on this occasion. From the moment, she walked in her energy was really different and it made this conversation both truly special and uniquely powerful. So, buckle your proverbial seatbelt, open your hearts and please enjoy this. Enlightening, exchange with my friend, know Robins we're good. We're going ready to rock.
Okay,
let's see. What are you saying? Well so I cannot believe you just said that you feel guilty about making people drive out here to your
students, a commitment. We it's way out in the middle of nowhere.
It's cool, I'm glad you're here. It's complete bullshit. First of all, you have this incredible platform that you have built. You have people that hang on your every word and it is absolutely like a gift that you're giving to people. So the fact that you would feel guilty
About somebody spending forty five measly minutes to be able to come and have a
conversation. It was probably more like an hour hardly, but it doesn't
matter. I don't know. Stop that okay. Yeah,
yeah. Well this is kind of like we're going to talk about tangential issues around, you know, this kind of mental ailment.
Yes. And so let me point out another one of yours. Yeah that's morning. I was looking on Instagram and you put up the post about Zac Efron, right? Being a fan.
Of your show. And you said I might take this down later and all of your fans I held back because I knew I was going to tell you this in person, we're like stop. If you didn't actually make a difference in the world, then he would not be doing what he's doing in terms of the, the ways gotten his health in order and so you make a huge difference and you call it self promotional. But the truth is, you are creating positive Ripple.
Effects. And I think it's very inspiring that you do that and so I don't see it as promotional at all. I see it as you demonstrating the reach of your show and the fact that the people that you have on change the lives of real people and that has a huge impact on the world, dude.
Well, I appreciate that. I'm going to click now, I can clip that out and I'll put that up. You on Instagram cam. I'm now talking to
Rich's team.
Mel Robbins will drive back here and literally yell at everybody I'm telling like you are, you are humble, which I deeply admire, and it's something that, you know, I might not be sounding humble right now, but you and I share that sort of like, Aw Shucks thing because we didn't get into this in terms of podcast, writing books, or doing what we're doing, because we had some aspiration to become a celebrity. We have been sharing our stories because I think,
think both you and I believe that. First of all, we can do it, you can do it. And secondly, that there are simple things that you can do to become happier or healthier and that if you and I can save anybody, the fucking headache and heartaches that we both caused ourselves. That is a life. Well-lived,
I'm on your page with that and, you know, I appreciate everything that you just shared and I am
Going to grow into, you know, the person who can kind of just gracefully accept nice things when they're done. When they're said to me, as opposed to, you know, every Instinct inside of me, which is to say, yeah. But or to diminish, you know, the the kind things I think in the case of publishing like a something that really is on a Bosch Italy, very self promotional, I mean on its face that's what it is right there is inside of me a thing. Like like the only reason I'm putting this up, it's like it shine.
Light on me and I have discomfort with that. Like I'd rather make it about what you just said which is the ideas behind
it. Yeah. But you are making it about the ideas because you don't sit here and have the conversations and do all the work behind the scenes that you do that. Most people are not aware of that. Go into making this form of Art, and this act of service that you're doing for the World by hosting this podcast by producing it by putting it out there Ray.
Rich and I think that what's really cool about putting out that post about Zac Efron, giving you credit right? For everything that he knows about health for training for Baywatch, for the stuff that he's learned from you, that you're the person that he listens to is that he has a big platform and so he can then send that ripple effect even further. And so, the other thing I wanted to say because this is going to lead us right into the topic about Mental Health.
How about mindset about happiness and the the profound issues? I've been working on in my own life is I completely understand what you mean when you say it's really hard to accept a compliment. It's hard to accept a gift. You'd rather have it be about somebody else. One of the biggest breakthroughs I've had in the last couple of years rich is this Epiphany about my inability to receive love mmm. And the fact that
That I was uncomfortable for a long time, hearing a compliment or having somebody say something nice or having a birthday party thrown for me or receiving a gift. And I have recently had this breakthrough because I have learned that there is a extremely tight connection between feeling anxious and not allowing love to come in. And so I have this visual rich and I'm gonna explain this to you because
I just had this emotional experience happen when you sort of were like pushing away the love, I was trying to shower you with. So I think when you block love, like imagine, like there's this closed door and when somebody tries to link with you or connect with you, or our thent, eclis tell you how amazing you are. If you have a hard time hearing it, you basically have put a solid door between
in you and the other person and I've been working recently with visualizing The Galley doors and a kitchen That Swing both ways because you're very good at giving love. You're very good at giving support. You are an incredibly amazing friend because you're always there when somebody needs you and you always open the door to listen to advise to share and I'm the same way too and for a long time when somebody would try to give it back to me, the door was closed.
So let's talk a little bit about where that comes from. Like what is the Genesis of that instinct for you or what have you learned about? What
I've learned about this and I would strongly encourage you to bring dr. Russell Kennedy on to your show, he wrote the book anxiety, RX, he's a medical doctor who also got his degree in neuroscience and he started experiencing anxiety when he was in medical school and he has gone on to heal his
Anxiety. He treats people around the world with anxiety, like he is a game-changer on this content and the topic of anxiety. So, his theory and I now see this completely in my life. His theory is that all anxiety comes from childhood and it comes from the experience of being separate in childhood and so, every single one of us has an experience and you may not remember it because 80% of your brain is formed by the time. You're five years.
Old. But you have an experience where you as a kid feel distinct and separate from your caregiver and he talks a lot about this concept of a parental mismatch. So there are a lot of us that have parents who are wonderful people or maybe they're not wonderful people, but you have parents who are wonderful people, but for you emotionally, just like the five love languages. There can be a mismatch in terms of the love language you speak in. Need
And what your partner does, that your parent. And the way that they provide emotional support is a mismatch. And so, as a kid, when you don't get the reassurance, you need, or when you don't feel loved or seen or heard, or accepted, you feel separate from the parent that you're biologically hardwired and needing to bond with which also means you feel unsafe. And so as a little kid at some point an alarm would go off in your body when
Were you felt separate from your parents and it could be as innocuous as go hug your uncle and your like this. I don't want to have my uncle like get in there or don't do that. Now I'm busier the snapping at you and you immediately feel that alarm because you feel separate. And so what happens is that this alarm that starts going off and going off and going off and moments where you feel separate, you're not feeling the love that you need. You're not feeling connected, you're not feeling reassured. It starts to go off all the
The time. Now, as you get older and older and older, I mean, we've all had the experience of walking in to see old friends at lunch and for many of us, we feel that alarm go off. They've all arrived there. They're all talking. You feel that sense of Separation that's anxiety. That's what it is. It's in your body and it is according to dr. Kennedy it is the little you basically waving their hand saying, I need a little reassurance.
Right now, that's all that it is. And for decades I have approached what has been an experience of living with anxiety from the neck up? I mean the five second rule is a neck up approach and based on the last two years of intense therapy that I've been in. And, you know, a lot of stuff that I've recently learned from dr. Kennedy, I realize it is fundamentally a neck down issue.
That attacking anxiety and these moments where you feel separate or scared, or you feel the alarm go off in your body, if you instead of treating it like a signal, that something's wrong. If you actually treat it as a signal that, you just need a little bit of love from yourself right now. Just put your hand on your heart, you can like take a towel and kind of do this on your back. Rub it back and forth and you feel like you're hugging yourself. Take a deep breath. Tell your
Yourself, whatever you need to hear in that moment, in order to reassure yourself that you're going to be okay or that whatever, you know, like get it, you know, you feel a little nervous. But all those people at that table, love you, it's freaking Bonkers how powerful of a purchases and it's also made me realize that. Wow, I am so not used to giving myself that kind of love and reassurance, no wonder I'm uncomfortable letting other people give it to me. Mmm.
That's powerful. I mean, a couple serve Reflections on that the first being that it tracks in a very similar way to science that's emerging on the nature of trauma. Like I'm just out a couple episodes with. I'd grab our mate and dr. Paul Conte and both of them. They have their approaches are a little bit different but they have this shared a shared sense or a shared perspective that that trauma arises in early childhood and for the same
Ins, your you weren't the parenting match. Wasn't appropriate or correct, and it makes me wonder whether kind of all of these things that we experience later in life, where we feel off-kilter can be tracked back to those very early years and it's interesting browser. Yeah,
I think that all, in fact, I start get, I'm now I'm so deep in my own personal exploration of the somatic modalities whether it's the the the cold exposure.
Our, which has been a game changer for me in many ways and I still hate whether it's guided, MDMA therapy sessions with my husband, which has been incredible around nervous system regulation and being able to re-experience past trauma, in a controlled setting that allows my body to reprocess it, so it doesn't keep triggering me EMDR. But I'm telling you just this reframe of thinking about anxiety,
As not a neck up approach. Of course, cognitive behavioral therapy works. Of course talk therapy is super important, of course things like the five-second rule and pattern Interruption and working on different ways of thinking, in terms of interrupting, the self-criticism, with a little bit more encouragement. That stuff is part of the tool kit, but I deeply believe that you can heal generalized anxiety.
Something I've struggled with for almost 45 years. I believe that through learning how to experience that alarm that goes off, that is completely normal. When you feel separate when you feel invisible, when you feel slightly nervous and learning how to give yourself the love and the reassurance that you didn't get at whatever moment it was that this alarm started going off. Sub. Five years old. I think this is game changing. It has
For me, I've now taught it to two of my kids that are that struggle with anxiety their reporting back like. Okay. Why didn't you know, this was like when I was eight and the doctor kept saying, change the channel like just being able to silence the alarm and realize, oh, this thing can come and go. I don't have to be ruled by it, freaking
awesome. The feeling of being different than, or an outsider or other than and that, you know, kind of low grade.
Nervousness that comes with walking into a room of people and not really knowing how to connect and feeling like you're on the outside of that. I mean, this is the story of my life. I've never really couched it or thought of it in the context of anxiety. I thought of it more. I mean now and I've said this a million times, so forgive me. But, you know, I kind of perceive all of these things through the lens of addiction and recovery. And the tools that I've learned, you know, through many years of being in that rubric and in that community,
Make me feel more integrated and over many years of practicing those tools and, you know, creating a life for myself where I do feel more self-actualized and kind of, with that comes a sense of self-esteem that has ameliorated, you know, 95% of that feeling that, you know, I used to have that made it impossible for me to be around other people, and why medicated for so many years. But I still have some low-grade aspect of that.
I've just never really thought of it as a chronic anxiety as much as just a feeling of like dissonance. It's the same thing
because the dissidents or the like my biggest experience with anxiety was disassociation. So when I felt separate or I felt like nervous about something and I didn't understand it all, I need in that moment was reassurance, I would like mentally, leave the room and my body. Hmm and so, one of the other interesting things
More that you look into research around anxiety. Is there is an extraordinary connection between anxiety and addiction and the reason why is because if you don't know what to do with that alarm that is simply the little you going. Hey, can you just give me a hug right now? And tell me we're going to be okay, you find ways to silence it. And so for you alcohol and addiction for my husband, a daily weed habit, like he never thought of himself as somebody that had anxiety either.
Yeah, but what Chris was dealing with, in those moments, when the alarm was going off, my my response to the anxiety alarm, is, is fight. Go, go, go, go. Go, which is why my addiction was an addiction to busyness and to work. And to trying to outrun it, my husband's response to that alarm that goes off inside you and you feel separate or you feel nervous about something or you feel uncertain or overwhelmed was to freeze.
And to withdraw. And so it became so intolerable for him that feeling of being separate that he would hit, you know, the wheat pain every day. I didn't even know this as a way to silence the alarm. And so, you know, I think that that when you start to talk about it, not as anxiety. But as an alarm that has been with many of us since childhood that feeling of being separate or getting triggered by
Subtle moments where you feel like you're on the outside looking in. And I think a lot of people find it hard to believe that somebody who puts themselves out there. The way that I do, I was actually pretty shy as a kid and my childhood best friend. Just has a big laugh because she's like, most people don't realize you were like this awkward. Weird little kid, you were shy, you were always kind of off. You were never like with a big group of friends and
I still as an adult feel that way even when I'm welcomed into big groups of people or, you know, II do much better one-on-one with
people. Hmm, well, let's let's drill down on the busyness thing, you know, on some level, I suppose that's analogous to workaholism and it's rooted in this drive that that, you know, was created very early in life and translates into this, you know, busyness also, what comes with that?
The drive, the ambition, the competitiveness, all of these things, and I share all of these traits with you that, you know, as we get older, we learn to be proud of and credit with our success. But also become unsustainable energy sources that end up. Wreaking, all kinds of havoc and mask, that anxiety or kind of distract us from really looking inward to kind. Of course correcting. What's not serving us.
And
so, I would say my primary addiction that I still struggle with is busyness, an addiction to being busy. And I would classify at least the busyness that I've experienced in three different categories. So there is the busyness that comes from transactional Love and transactional acceptance and worth. And I don't think that necessarily is something that happens in a
Hood. I think most of us learn it as kids that when you get good grades or you excel in sports, or you do, what makes your parents happy that's when you get the positive attention that we all. So desperately need when we're growing up validation that our existence is worthy of love and praise and so when you start to recognize that acting the way that your folks want you to act or getting good grades or do
Ingrate and sports are doing, what makes everybody happy that? That's what gives you that emotional support, that creates a certain kind of achievement a busyness, a chasing of something outside of you because you were trained as a kid that that's how you got positive emotional feedback. So, that's one kind of a busyness and it's why so many of us find ourselves putting all of our worth outside of ourselves because we were trained to believe that if we're doing
Something worthy of Praise, then we get the emotional support that we need. So, that's one kind of busyness. And for sure, I absolutely have that. Absolutely, and it has been wonderful in many regards because that kind of drive, that kind of ambition, that, that can be very, very successful. It can make, it can make you very, very successful. The second kind of busyness is another kind of busyness, and that's a busyness that's born out of Crisis. And so
So, you know, a lot of My Success came at a moment in time where my husband and I were about to lose everything. I told the story the first time that I was here on the podcast and, you know, when you can't pay your bills and you're about to lose your house and everything is on the line, there is a level of busyness that is motivated by sheer need. And so I also had this problem Rich wear. When I started,
For speeches, we had leans on her house. So I became very, very busy because I was in the middle of a crisis. And the problem with that kind of busyness is, it's very hard to hit the brakes and to go, I'm not in a crisis anymore. In fact, I think that based on a lot of the, you know, the you and I both do a ton of speaking on the corporate circuit. And what I've noticed even coming out of the pandemic, is that every single company,
Me and person in the world, had an over functioning anxiety response to the pandemic, the second it hit and we were all in quarantine and everything is uncertain. Everybody's like go go go go go go go zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom zoom, zoom palatable, Allah change, change pivot pivot pivot and most companies have not gotten out of that mode because it's a busyness that was created in response to a crisis.
And so, there's this huge moment right now that everybody needs to step on the brakes and go. Wait a minute. I can't keep responding to day-to-day life. Like it's a crisis, not everything requires a zoom meeting. Not everything requires us to work all day long. I got to go back to getting focused on what matters and being strategic and thoughtful rather than driven by this, like anxious. Well there's almost a PTSD to it. Yeah, my version of your
Ree. You know what? I relate to that deeply. We I went through something very similar and was once we emerged out of it and everything stabilized. It was very difficult for me to slow down because I was so desperately afraid of ever being in that situation, again, that I was just pushing the accelerator as hard as I possibly could to get as far away as I possibly could from ever being that person with this sense that if I even eased up a bit that the whole house of cards,
Is was going to topple on top of me and it took me a long time to kind of exhale and realize like, yes I'm not in a crisis anymore. Everything is working fine. You can you know, breathe and you know, it's now incumbent upon you to kind of deal with that anxiety or that post-traumatic stress or however you would qualify it and transcend it. No, we're coming in. That was not, that was not an easy thing because what the same time because you're getting, you are growing, and you're getting that.
External, validation and things are working. And so there's a, there's a, you have like, a feverish, you know, kind of relationship with that because the outside world is praising you for it, which makes it more difficult slow
down. I remember when somebody I told a bunch of people that you and I know that I would, I had decided that I was no longer going to be speaking on the corporate circuit.
And somebody looked at me and said why on Earth would you stop giving
Keynotes right? And just to pause it for a moment for people don't know. You're like the number one self improvement motivational speaker on the circuit. You were commanding insane fees. And there was no shortage of companies that wanted to book you. So you could go on the road and just you know Bank like serious life-changing cash,
I did for years.
and you know in this and I but I wasn't happy like again it was being driven by this addiction to being busy and the fact that just like you like my success was born out of a crisis and so I was trying to outrun that crisis and build as much buffer as I could and I'm grateful for the experience, I'm grateful that I could pay off the loans, I'm grateful to be in a position that I'm in now with with
Things and to be able to pay for college and to be able to go on nice trips but I wasn't fucking happy. I had missed all of our daughters High School experience and I felt deeply disconnected from my husband. And I just was exhausted. And somebody looked at me and they said, but you like are in a category of one in this. Why would you give it up? And I'm like, it just doesn't make me happy. And I think that's part of how you get
Out of that mode of the second form of busy, which is that PTSD response that we all had to quarantine and to the world turning upside down. Like, I, personally believe that unless you are somebody that has been working on your nervous system regulation. I personally feel, this is not a medical opinion, this is just Mel Robbins opinion that when the quarantine hit and the pandemic, hit the universe flipped the switch on
Everybody's nervous system and everybody because we were going through an unprecedented experience.
Your nervous system went into fight or flight. The alarm turned on. As you don't know, whether you can bring groceries inside masks everywhere, we're not going back to school. Now, it's one month now, it's two months now, it's three months uncertainty, and we're not built for this. And I believe, almost everybody listening, unless you are actively working on your nervous system regulation.
That you have a major opportunity to do some simple things to flip the switch off and switch off your sympathetic nerve which what it would, the parasympathetic nervous system, right? And flip on the parasympathetic. Always, I always get them mixed up because I think if it's sympathetic it should be the one that makes you
relaxed sympathetic. I'm probably wrong. But I think the sympathetic nervous system is the
fight-or-flight. Yeah. Which is, which seems screwy to me but so
So I feel like, you know, if you think about it in the walls of your studio, there's all kinds of wiring for electricity. That wiring is your nervous system and what happened for many of us, whether it's because of the pandemic or because of childhood trauma, you've never addressed or because of some traumatic incident or chronic abuse. Whatever it may be, the lights have always been on.
and you know how some lights are like this is
if you feel on edge, if you feel like you're waiting, for the next shoe to drop, you have an opportunity to just start to see that l'arme going off in the background.
And to give yourself the reassurance and the love that you need to flip the switch to go back to your calm. Cool, resting state. And there are simple things that you can do all of what you talked about extensively on the show. Whether it's cold exposure, whether it's meditation, whether it's exercise, whether it's breathing exercises, but even the stuff related to toning, the vagus nerve. But I think one of the greatest access points is truly understand.
And that that alarm is just that little kid in you who had experiences. When you were little that you don't necessarily remember that made you feel scared separate alone uncertain and nobody reassured. You
It's the season of giving but you've already given enough to your internet service provider. If you have not been using expressvpn every time you've gone online this year, and I'm not just talking about the enormous internet. Bill, you pay every month. What I'm telling you is that every single time you go online without expressvpn, your provider can see and log every single website that you visit. And yes, that includes all the sites that you visit in incognito mode.
Everything and on top of overcharging, you there. Also this is amazing there. Also legally allowed to sell, all your browsing activity to third-party advertisers for massive profits. So it's incumbent upon all of us to kind of protect our privacy and our browsing data and to make sure that we never go online without first making sure that we're covered by expressvpn, which is an app that's really easy.
Did you use that encrypts and reroutes 100% of your network data through these secure servers? So your provider actually can't see a thing and it's basically just one button. You fire it up on your device, your phone, your laptop, whatever and tap to connect and that's it. So take back your internet privacy today with the VPN. That's rated number one. By techradar. And Mashable visit expressvpn.com Rich Roll.
And get three extra months of expressvpn for free. That's expression1.com. Rich Roll. Expressvpn.com / Rich Roll to learn more.
We're also brought to you today by 10,000 Kick-Ass comfortable, men's training gear that holds up under pressure looks great and is designed to help you become better than yesterday. That's their Mantra. And it's a powerful one at that in whatever Pursuit you chase from trail running to CrossFit and all the kettlebells in between 10,000 has. You covered their gear is bulletproof. It's stylish. And the minimal way. I like it's designed as if custom tailored and
It's packed with tech features specific to your Pursuit and Quest For Excellence. The guys at 10,000 are serious about making nothing but perfected training Essentials, so no BS. No meaninglessly made products produced every month on the fashion world's unsustainable cycle of selling you stuff. Only a solid lineup of Select Styles, engineered for maximum comfort and movement, guaranteed for life, for life with free shipping and free returns.
Whether you're a gym rat, a gymnast or a Jiu-Jitsu black belt, I just can't recommend their gear enough. And right now, 10,000 is offering all you guys, 20% off your purchase. Go to ten thousand CC /, Rich role to receive, 20% off your purchase. That's te and th OU sa ND D CC /, Rich Roll.
The first step though is recognizing that it exists within you because we have a tremendous capacity to normalize, whatever our experience is. And so we could be completely off-kilter or just so acclimated to a level of chronic anxiety or whatever. The case may be that it becomes difficult to even recognize in ourselves because we've just lived with it for so long. Yeah. And you know when you realize it's not
About being nervous.
Like the alarm that you feel on your body could be expressed as anger. It could be expressed as frustration because you can't tolerate that discomfort that's going off your body. It might be expressed as withdrawing a might be expressed as, you know, being on edge like somebody, you know, like me which was my experience of feeling always like something bad was about to happen. But then there's a third busyness and this is the one that has really been kind of a real game changer for me.
Which I call it the campaign of misery. It may surprise you to know that is positive and is optimistic of a person. You know that I am and I do believe I'm a very positive person, I'm a very optimistic person. Meaning that I do believe that your attitude and your actions can have, it can improve any situation that you're facing. Mmm, I had in the
Background a constant campaign of misery.
That was a tape playing in the back of my mind and if you grew up around anybody, that complains or gripes or life is hard, or gossips, or just is pointing out what's wrong or unhappy, you don't realize it, but it becomes the language, you speak to yourself. It's how you keep yourself company. And when I started to truly
Go both, you know, attacking my thoughts. But more importantly when I started go neck down and I started to realize this alarm is something I don't want to live with anymore. This alarm going off all the time. Not something I'm going to tolerate and I started to take the steps to find the switch inside me and to silence that alarm going off in my body. What I noticed rich is, holy shit.
When I'm not paying attention, the place that my mind goes, is to what's wrong. Mmm. And the more that I fix the outside shit, like, you know, I we pay off our bills, we start saving money, we are moving to Vermont and and renovating this house and I'm working on my marriage and things are really good in the more that the outside stuff is good. The louder, the campaign of misery actually turned inward at me, well, it's got a latch onto something. Yes, that's
Default disposition.
I didn't realize how much my mind scanned for what was wrong.
And so it's this third form of busyness, where you yourself in your own mind, are like pointing out the things that aren't good enough. Like I literally would be sitting in this house that Chris and I built a complete dream house. You've been there and
instead of being able to truly look at the view down the valley,
My mind would go. Yeah. Well, but there's no people here. You're not going to have any friends. You thought you were lonely in Boston. Just wait. Like, it's like the alarm. Yeah, is trying to come
back in fairness. It is in the middle of
nowhere. Okay. Now don't make me nervous.
Wreck that mean, you're not going to come visit, see now I'm panicked. No,
everything was when the alarm wasn't going off, it was as if this campaign of misery was trying to flip it back on.
Hmm. So, what was the, the breaking
With that that that compelled you to reckon with
it. It was during well I think that it's the I'll tell you the breaking point, it was during a guided MDMA
session. Yeah, I want to get into this. We're I wanted to put a pin in that, but if that's relevant to this, let's relish your about this.
I have been working with a therapist for two years on just healing past trauma on
Trying to figure out how to be more content, accepting and happy with wherever I am instead of constantly grinding for the next thing and between that talk therapy between the therapy that Chris and I are doing once he got diagnosed with long-term like depression and EMDR. And like I think all of it was compounding to this one, breaking point. So my husband and I have done
To guided therapeutic, MDMA sessions with this couple. I can't name them because it's not legal in the state that we were in. But they're part of the maps protocol and part of a huge integrative therapy community that is doing the post integration therapy after these sort of psychedelic experiences, which I think is the most important part of these experiences is the therapy that you do afterwards to integrate, what you experienced physically mentally.
Lee spiritually, emotionally back into your life, so we've already done one. It was absolute Game Changer. Fantastic. So, here we are, 18 months later. This was in April and we're doing a second one. And so, the way that it works is you set an intention, you then take the MDM, the MDMA and it takes about 30 to 45 minutes to kick in. And I had done ecstasy at concerts, or
Recreationally, this is a completely different experience. Because once you start to feel this sort of warm wave takeover, you immediately go to a separate like mattress or Matt, or Cod, or whatever and you climb in under blankets. And you've got all these amazing pillows and then you put on a mask and then you put on headphones and there's a six hour playlist and it's the most delicious amazing incredible. Like Buddha Bar meets, I don't know what kind of stuff.
And they say that the, you know, that the, the MDMA is the medicine, but the music is the guide and with every song change what happened to me. The first time I did this is I would have a completely different image in my mind. It was as if because your your vision is blocked and because you know, you have all of this like amazing music coming in. The MDMA is a
Game Changer because it blocks the amygdala so you have no fear reaction.
And so, what happened for me? The first time I did it is it was the most profound experience of my life for six hours. I witnessed the Highlight Reel of my past, present and future, and I didn't just watch it. I actually was there. And so the first song comes on and it's like, I am, you know, that Space Mountain ride where you're in the dark at Disney and then it comes around a corner and here it was a feeling like that and then all of a sudden the clouds broke and there I was I was
At Bear Lake in North Muskegon Michigan. Where I grew up and I was in the eighth grade and I was there with my best friend Jody. The one who says I'm shy, and we had the jam box out there and journey was playing and I like felt the whole thing. I was there again and my intention for the first MDMA therapy session was, I want to look back on my life and remember, the good stuff. I mean our brains are a real bitch with this negativity bias. And the
Fact that you remember the bad things that happen like I don't know if it's 3x or 5x to the good things. I'm like, please show me the beauty in my life and so that was the first thing and then the song changed and the second Vision was I could see like little baby feet and I looked up and there was this big beautiful blue sky with these big clouds and their kites everywhere rich.
And then I looked straight ahead and there's my mom.
And she was 19 years old.
And there was my dad, and he was 23.
And I felt this wave come over me.
They were so young.
And, you know, I love my mom and she loves me, but we have a very kind of mismatched, sort of the way that we express, and I know that she feels and many ways that she gave up on her life because she dropped out on of college to have me.
And for the first time,
I just felt this huge intense wave of love. And I reached for the therapist that was sitting with me. And I'm like, I can't handle this. I can't handle this, I can't. And I started sobbing, and then I and she just put her hands on my chest was just like, you know, tell me what's happening and breathe into it. And I felt this crazy amount of
Just sorrow and and love that. I had never felt in just at a soul level for how scared she must have been.
And this was in the first experience that you had and that and this is relevant because I like to hear about that experience was a vivid memory. Like you were actually in that place with. Okay, I was
about that and then for
your able to access a memory from being a baby.
Yes, in
Stored here. Because what happens with this music, is it on whatever is going on with this music and this like the MDMA is it unlocks something in your subconscious that you can't access for whatever reason? At least, this is the way I explain it. God knows if that's what's actually happening. But so for six hours, Rich, mmm, like it was past present future. I've already been to my daughter's wedding. I have been there. I've seen it,
I know exactly, travel to the future. I did you did.
Oh, I did and
So the next day as we were driving home, I called my mom and I'm like, you know, I had this thing where we did this therapy session and you know, I saw you and Dad and there were a lot of kites and she immediately went oh, that's such and such Park in Kansas City, I've never seen a photo of this Rich. You said they would always fly kites, and do this and airplanes and stuff. Yeah, we used to go there every, you know, Saturday afternoon when your dad was off call. Wow. And so,
That was remarkable. And I had this experience of literally like almost like my nervous system smoothing out and so for the second time I was so excited. Oh my God, you know, we're moving to Vermont. We thought we would do this to like start the new chapter. This is going to be amazing. Meanwhile, I've been doing all this therapy and I'm working so hard on trying to get that alarm to turn off. I have not yet learned the connection between being separate as a child and separation anxiety and all anxieties adult I have
Learn the connection between this alarm and the little you just needing love and so we go into the second session and this time, we're going to do it at our brand-new home. The first day we move in Chris is again with, you know, it's a husband and wife therapy team. He's with the husband, I'm with the wife. We set an intention. And I say, I want to look to the Future, and I want to really enjoy this next chapter of my life. I want to stop like, just and
So they say that the medicine gives you exactly what you need. So 30 minutes goes awesome, feeling the warm thing. I'm climbing in. Got my little blanket up. I put my head, and here's the other cool thing. I've never had any interest in doing Ayahuasca, because I don't, I'm like, I don't want to shit or puke like that, that is that that does not make me feel excited about this. I don't want to feel out of control. I'm scared about scary things, and
So what I loved also about the MDMA, is that the second you take your eye mask off to go the bathroom, you're out of it,
even though the drug is still coursing through your
veins out of it, when I have to go the bathroom, you know, I'm like II need some help, go in the bathroom and I literally sit up, take the eye mask off, Nova nothing
so there's something about the sonic wave lengths and the visual experience in the
yes it's incredible. And then the whole time you're going to the bathroom. You're like I gotta get back. I got to get back.
So the second time I climb in I'm expecting this to be this amazing highlight reel. Nothing happens. So I'm laying there. Mike it's just going to work. What's going on reaching for the gal? The therapist. I don't think you gave me enough. His crit is Chris stripping is is he? Oh he's in a great place but worried about you just drop in just let it happen. I don't know how to drop him. Well you got to stop gripping.
The medicine is working, just just trust what it's trying to teach you.
So then, I spent probably three hours going with the fuck is wrong with you? Like why can't you just enjoy this? Why can't you? And I am just a prepper. Is this going to work? Is it not going to work? Well, why don't you just lay here and enjoy the music? Why do you have to be? So intense about everything, maybe this isn't supposed to work. Like does did that that that, that, that that data I reach for again? I don't think it's working. I really think that you should give me more because I smell it is working.
Because you need to learn how to let go.
And I said, but I don't know how. And she said, exactly
And then I got what I needed because this is what I said to her. Well I have to figure this out.
Because if I don't it's going to be over and I'm going to have missed the whole fucking thing.
And the therapist pause and said yes just like your life hmm and it made me.
Just stop for a second and I thought to myself in that moment I'm like, okay, you're a person who's had fun and you've laughed a lot and you've done some amazing things.
But have you allowed yourself to really enjoy it? Have you ever truly Mel?
I just allowed yourself.
to receive all the things that are around you, whether it's the beautiful sky that you see, as you're out hiking or it's the people that are around you and this moment
And so, back to the original analogy, we were talking about rich. Like is there a closed door that shuts you off and keeps you trapped with yourself going? It's not enough. And I got to do this and, you know, there's no people here in southern Vermont. And why did I do this and is this going to be bad? That'll triggered by this alarm?
Or can you have a different experience in life where you truly are? Okay?
With what's happening?
And you allow yourself.
To be content and you allow the love to come in. Can you get there? And I'll tell you like it just by then dropped in and there were no visuals.
I just
it was almost like silence.
and that's when that campaign of misery,
really.
Kind of. And what was interesting though is that the very next day you know we were doing our integration therapy afterwards and I couldn't get off the couch I sat on that couch Rich for two and a half days, like didn't get up and I felt this almost like energetic shedding.
Of generations, of shit of this, you know, I come from a long line of farmers and my grandparents were from Austria and had a family but like, super hard working. Everything was always about work. Everybody always had dirt under their fingers, everybody write that none of them bitching about the cows or the pigs of the this. So that of the hooded henna, huh? Lots of laughter. But work work work and I felt this
Just shedding.
Of that I don't even know what it is. That wiring that just cloak that arose around me and that's it hasn't
left. Yeah I was going to ask what is the half-life of these experiences? I mean I think you know to your point like the integrative kind of therapeutic process that follows those experiences is really the key piece and I say that as somebody who hasn't done this and I have a lot of baggage and opinions about
You know, those experiences and I see somebody who hasn't done it, but I'm always curious like, you know, I know, I know people that do Ayahuasca, like, all the time. They're not enlightened. Like so what are they getting out of it of the so-called medicine? What is, what is the lasting impact versus the transient? Kind of experience that school and perhaps opens a door or a window into, you know, some insight about how to live.
But how do you then integrate that into your daily behavior in a way that stays with you?
It's an excellent question. Like I think it's all about your intention, is it escapism? Is it a cool experience or is it something that you really are doing to truly integrate some type of profound change into your life? And for me, you know, I've spent enough of my life trying to escape it and run away from it. And now,
That I'm 54 today, I'd like to spend the next half of my life or, however, much time I have really in it,
not Huntington. And how's that going?
Well, I've only been in it.
Now, you know, I don't know. Are you first of all, happy birthday. I was gonna open this by saying, happy birthday to. We're also here on the day after you launch your new podcast and I know a lot of work went into that. I mean, there's I mean, come on. There's a lot of hand-wringing
In the, you know, the backstory to this thing. But also that's going to flare up the competitiveness and the measuring yourself against other people and all those external forces that that robbed you of being present in the experience and and just, you know, that that sense of gratitude or just, you know, being that is antithetical to your disposition, right? So how does that like in the in the, in the wake of this launch?
Yeah. How is that showing up for you? How is that MDMA experience, buffering against your, you know, default settings.
It's a great question. So I think the single greatest thing that helps me
other than the work that I'm doing from the neck down to stay in my body and to stay in the moment and to recognize when the alarm goes off and then to quiet, it is to stay deeply connected to the reason why I do what I do. And there's a couple things that that we've put in place that act like guard rails for when I get way too, when I get triggered by. Why aren't we on?
New and noteworthy on Apple. We're number 12, like when we walk in here with number 12 on all of Apple
podcast right now you are number one for a minute. Yeah, launch the trailer. I was like, Jesus Christ, you're taking up my valuable real estate in the education, category by the way. But you know I'm happy for you now. Sure. Ha ha, there's enough
success to go around. That's the one thing that I've certainly learned it's taken me a long time that there's room for everybody. I really believe that and
The reason my mission is super simple. It's very, very much. A, the same as yours. It's to help you create a better life. And selfishly my mission is that I wanted to get off the road. I wanted to stop feeling so lonely. And I wanted to be able to connect with people and share my life and the things that I'm learning in a much more personal and real
I'm way that I can't do in an audio book and I can't do on a stage, you know, giving a speech and I can't do in a 60-second real and I don't know if you know this about me but I got my start in local radio. No, I knew that. Yeah. Yeah and so I you know, back when I hosted this local radio show is like a Lifeline during a really difficult time for me. And so I've been wanting to get back to Radio
podcast. It's just interesting that it took you this long because it's such an obvious.
Yes, you know, low hanging fruit for you.
Yeah. You know, I guess, the reason why it took me this long is because I knew when I finally was going to have a show of my own that I wanted it to be, the thing that I was doing. I didn't want it to be. Another thing I was doing, I wanted to make a deliberate intentional decision that I was going to change my entire business and organize, the entire business, the rhythm of the week and what?
Was focused on on the podcast show. Hmm. And so it took me 18 months to complete existing contracts to finish up the stuff that we, you know, had on Deck with audible to hire the right people to figure out what we needed to do. And so that's that's also why I wanted to go all in and I think particularly, when you look at in personal development,
the fact that there's an enormous opportunity for female voices and they're lacking, you know, I want to see more and more and
more is incredible. I mean there's there's Glenn and oil and there's brene Brown and then it just kind of drops off precipitously from there. Like it's wide open for a powerful. Yeah. For powerful female voices. Mhm,
I agree. And so, the way that I protect myself from it is we just stayed tightly connected to the people whose lives were changing.
And who are impacted by the content that we put out. And so one of the things that we do that, I love as we send out a daily email, that's a Roundup from all platforms. The inbox of things that real people have actually said about the stuff that we're doing and the impact that it's made. And so and today on my birthday, my team had tricked me. They said that Tracy was working and could not join us for breakfast. And when I walk back to the hotel room,
They had printed out birthday messages from people in our community from all over the world and so and their photos. And and so and last night like at the restaurant we were at, there were four people that came up to us and they all worked at the restaurant and one of the things about me and I know this is true about you is I have zero interest in Celebrity. I have zero interest in celebrities and it's really, you know, just sort of
Of like normal people that are doing the best that they can just like you and I are that's the kind of people that I want to connect with. Those are the folks that I really want to be able to be somebody that can make you feel like somebody believes in you that you can do it.
Metabolic Health, meta, Pollock, Health, what is it? Well, it's not meta as in Mark, Zuckerberg meta, it's meta as in bollock, which is basically this foundational pillar of your health involving, how your body metabolizes glucose and in turn what this means and how it affects your Energy Fitness and mental state. It's all very nuanced and honestly super confusing which because it's so important also makes it frustrating.
Frustrating. But this is a problem that has been solved by levels levels. Uses a biosensor in the form of a continuous. Glucose monitor, a CGM that connects with a mobile app to provide you with real-time feedback a direct view into how your food and your lifestyle choices are affecting your blood sugar in real-time, so you can improve your choices. Choices which levels suggest based on your biometric data to improve your well-being and help ward off.
Chronic disease. Everyone involved in this endeavor is world-class super-smart including a Stanford trained. MD top Engineers from SpaceX and Google and one of the main takeaways I've experienced from using levels is that the reality of your metabolic health is not necessarily intuitive. So being able to witness actually see how certain foods are problematic for me and how also things like stress, poor sleep and fatigue, negatively impact my
Ability to manage glucose in a healthy way. All of this has been revelatory and super helpful and honestly has motivated me to make additional Health beneficial changes. So when you're ready to better, understand how food affects your health and try a continuous glucose, monitor yourself. Go to levels dot link /, Rich role to learn more that's levels, dot link, forward, slash Rich Roll.
I've always been a bit of a Gearhead. I've tried, just about every Smartwatch sleep monitor and Tech doodad out there and very few of these experiments stand the test of time. But one thing that has stock that never leaves my wrist is the whoop 4.0. The latest most advanced fitness and health wearable out there. Here's how it works. Whoop, provides personalized, exertion targets based on your body's recovery. So basically you wake up every morning, you check your phone.
You get this recovery score and that score is based on how well you slept along with several of your body's key Vital Signs, like heart rate, variability, skin temperature, blood, oxygen levels, respiratory rate. Basically, whoop takes all of this data and makes recommendations for you based on how much you should exert yourself and how much rest you need and along the way. Whoop, monitors every heartbeat and is there to help guide you throughout the day whether you're a gym regular or just
Trying to get started building healthy habits their strength coach lets, you know if you're pushing yourself optimally too hard, not enough and basically helps you to build Fitness gains optimally. So sleep better recover faster? Train smarter. And now feel healthier with whoop, y'all new waterproof device is free. When you sign up for a whoop 4.0 membership. Right now, Loop is offering 15% off. When you use the code Rich role at checkout. Go to whoop, who p.com and enter code. Rich role at checkout to save.
15% today.
Right? The danger being for you. Of course that nature abhors a vacuum. And you mentioned, you know, you wanted to go all in like I'm in all in guy, right? So what is all in look like like how do you not repeat the historic pattern of you know filling that vacuum with a lot of noise and busyness. Yeah and wrapping it in a bow that says yes but I'm launching a podcast and I need to do this for now and blah blah blah and whatever else only to wake.
A cup a year later or two years later miserable once again. Yeah, with a faint recollection of some MDMA experience that you had two years. Prior, do I hear some? This is a ritual. Is that what I'm hearing? Well, my baggage, you know, my baggage is that I'm a recovery guy, right? And so, and I've said this many times, so I don't want to belabor the point for people who've heard me say it too many times, but, you know, when you tell a recovering drug addict that the solution to his problem or a solution,
The problem lies in a very powerful mind-altering drug like, that is, that's, that's, that's intoxicating in and of itself that idea, right? So I will obsess over this is what I have to do this. This, if I do this, then everything will be fine and that Loop can be very destructive for me. I have no judgment on people whose lives who that have been improved. I know, lots of people who have had similar experiences and whose lives have been made better by that.
At it, just scares me personally because of my history, even though I know people in recovery who also have explored this and had, you know, a positive outcome from it. I think that's just me like, you know, like putting my cars on the table on
that. Yeah, I think you have to pay attention to that and I think it's it's enormously responsible and an act of self-love to say that and it shows how self-aware you are. And if you were to ever explore something like that as your
And I would hope that you would explore it with a therapist that specializes in a particular game. You know what, you know what I mean? If I was to
entertain it and I'm not you know completely you know putting it off the table but it would have to be in a highly regulated environment with people who are super
expert. I didn't I didn't hop on a plane and go to Peru with travel bloggers and, you know, sit around and look, let's
go to Venice and you know, really
Well I, you know, plenty of it
around but I you know if that's what somebody wants to do then that's what they should do. That is not at all. What I was interested in. I was not interested in a recreational transformational experience. I was not interested in a burning man situation. I was interested in addressing specific things in my marriage, and my past in my own well-being, with right? A guided therapist. And with my husband and with therapy
afterwards and it's interesting. Now that
Like why? Why MDMA and not psilocybin, or now, they're using ketamine for similar purposes.
I didn't want to do psilocybin because when I was at Dartmouth, I had a horrendous experience on psilocybin. And I think we basically bought morels that had been dusted with LSD or something because I was tripping my ass off in a canyon trying to put my hand in a fire pit because I thought they were dancing Chipmunks in there and I was living on like,
What the hell's the name of that band? I was living on my Calvin, cover fish and it was terrifying. And for a long, long long, long long time. I didn't smoke pot after that, because I was so scared of that experience. And I am scared of a experience on psychedelics where you lose control on your, in a dark tunnel. Like, I don't need to take drugs experience, a giant frog, chasing me only to have the outcome be oh I can get myself through
this. Right.
But control is at the center of your whole thing, right? And so that experience in, and of itself is compelling you to loosen the reins and let go, which is a very uncomfortable place for you, right? Telling me I should do mushrooms. No, I'm not telling you anything. I'm telling you that the struggle with your second experience. Probably had a lot to do with this control issue, right? It had everything to do with not only control.
But for whatever reason feeling like I'm not allowed to be happy, I had an experience as a child of a parent who is never happy.
Joyful loud fun but not happy. Hmm. And I absorb that and didn't even realize it.
And it's almost as if the closer I would get to being happy the more this sort of programming in my mind that I absorbed as a child he liked. But no, you're not. And so I feel that after lots of therapy and some of these physical experiences facilitated by medicine facilitated, by other modalities, that's the Breakthrough that I'm having like at a super deep level.
That it's okay for me to be happy when somebody that I love isn't, mmm. It's not a betrayal.
And that, you know, it makes me sad because I think for a very long time, I didn't even understand that I wasn't happy.
And it's because of this silent campaign of misery, which is how I kept myself company, because it was there during
childhood. And what about the fear that that comes up around letting go of that pattern, in the sense that it's going to, you know, destroy that engine that's made you successful, right? Like, well, if I actually heal this and I'm happy then, I'm not going to have that motor. That drove me actually got me to this place. I think I
Did you have to deprogram? Because I'm sure that you would pivot to that, right? That idea,
you know, I feel that the engines there. I'm just giving a different fuel. So I like, what if we all had a Hybrid engine, it could run on electricity or
gas. So, what's the fuel now? Like how did you make that transition?
A lot of therapy and a lot of like dealing with this alarm?
And allowing myself to have more and more and like just kind of flexing this muscle of being in the moment being content noticing when the, but there's nobody in Vermont. But why did you move three hours away? You're not going to have any friends, you're already busy enough. How do you think you're going to have a new life of your three hours away from your kit? What are you doing?
Like catching that been like, you know what? It's okay, you're gonna be okay. It's like you're in Vermont. Who cares.
So here we are. Is your birthday?
Yeah. Oh you know what? You didn't you ask me? How are you going to? Make sure you don't have busy. Yeah, come in. You said that really like sarcastic and
right. Yeah. Like how is the
vacuum? Three hours away from an airport. So I put a huge buffer in
between myself, but we
And conversations. When you were wrapping your head around how to do this podcast and one of those, one of the things you were debating was, you know, I need to get a studio in Boston. Yep. You're living out in the country and I was like, don't do that. Like the Mel Robbins experience will be enriched by The Listener knowing that you're sitting at your kitchen table and Somebody's knocking over a glass in the background like that sense of you know, reality and and authenticity is so important to
What you're doing, you don't want to, you know, inoculate everybody from that. And then distract yourself from the mission by getting all caught up and the studio and fancy stuff. And what's it going to be like and all of that and then you walked in today. So I got a Studio Plus 2. Yeah.
But so here your butt so it's not the
but not to
do that. I did listen to you and hear me out. So I agree with you.
The whole intent for starting this podcast was for me to have a deeper Connection in real time with people and to help myself through the podcast. And also help other people create better lives and also learn more and so 1000%. Yes, you also made me realize that it's not actually a show that you go anywhere to do.
That you literally need to figure out how to make your life podcasting and so you had a enormous transformative impact on me. Rich. And told I would like to tell you that the studio. So what I also have come to realize much like a Hybrid engine that can run on negative energy or positive energy. Right that can run on stress and busyness or can run on strategic disciplined like thinking.
NG and priorities is, I've also come to embrace the fact that I'm the kind of person that actually needs two things. I need the Deep Quiet and isolation of Vermont, to do deeper thinking, and to feel connected to Chris, and to Oakley, and to do deeper work, and to Exhale, and to commune with nature. And I also need these moments and bursts of the city.
And of my team and I have creative Sprints and that I can't do that if I don't have an office somewhere, but I have to figure out how to not be in that office every week. I have to figure out a business model so I can create my so I can live my life and have the podcast be part of it. And I can have a legitimate business that runs like a business, not out of the desk in my house, but at an office that is not my house which is something I haven't done in a
Years,
right? And you got like, whatever it is 200 miles of New England, Countryside, separating you so that you can't escape into that office.
Yeah. And the other thing is that I don't want jumping on a plane to give a speech to be the solve for that energy and that, that that kind of creative thing that I need, right? I need my
projects that the challenge, obviously, then is for someone who's trying to simplify their life and be very focused to not allow those
Analogies to fill that void or that vacuum and then create all the insanity that you are trying to get away from, how do you repeating that pattern? I mean, it's that's, you know, I've been on a similar Journey with the whole thing. I mean, this studio that we're in now is a relatively new thing, but the good thing about it is that it has allowed me to relinquish a lot of control and to empower other people and that's been a huge learning curve for me and to make it more of a communal.
Effort as opposed to, you know, I'm doing this thing. We're doing it, which has been great. So there is a, there's a, there's a release with that and a letting go that's been instructive and I think empowering for the people that I work with here at all. So for me as well, that's freed me up to do other things and I still hold on a probably a little bit too tightly, you know, as you're finding out, it's more work than people realize to do this thing. It's
really hard work.
To put out good content in this format and to do
video. Yeah, so you know, but we've been doing it for a long time and I feel like we're in a really good space right now and I feel great and, you know, I haven't done MDMA but I have all these other therapeutic modalities that I've relied upon and have grown as a result of embracing. And you know, I as I'm sure people say to you all the time, Mel like what's the what are you working on? What's the big thing? Where, you know, what's the next thing or whatever? I get that question a lot.
Lot and I don't, there isn't really a net. It's this isn't driving towards something that I don't already have like, this is fucking awesome to be able to do this. I want to just be able to wake up every day and be excited about it. I have other creative things that I want to manifest and Express in my life but I'm not doing this so that I can do those other things. Like, I just want to be fully plugged into this and to wake up and recognize and be present with what an amazing thing.
It is in one of the mantras that I've been practicing is just saying, remember like, this is the good time, like nothing is static. There will come a day where I don't want to do this anymore, or this won't be happening or, you know, some intervening event could occur that derails me, who knows what's going to happen, but right now, like, it's great, you know? And I'm having fun and I can provide for my family and I can employ people who seem to enjoy working here. Like, what is better than that? To be excited about what you?
Get to do every day and to share it with people that enjoy it and are nourished by it, like it's fucking
awesome.
This is exactly
why I'm watching it. Yeah, okay, that's
what you know the other thing that happened for me because, you know, you and I also share the fact that we've been married for a long time. Hmm. And you're for kids, right? And we've got three. And the other thing that happened for me rich is that my family said very loud and clear that they were tired of our house being my work.
And so, as we made the move from outside of Boston, to Southern Vermont, where our son is going to the public high school, and we're my husband's family, has had a house for 40 years, I really listened and I, they were right. I was never not working because I worked at home and so it was really important for me to try to figure out and I haven't figured it out yet, we're just got two.
Loads out as of today, like, I don't, I, we're so new with this. This is literally, I put my pinky toe over, the starting line of
American. You're going to do two a week. Yep? Right yep. Yeah. That's heavy. Yeah.
And that we stop scaring me. Like all of a sudden. I felt the campaign and misery coming. I'm like, oh God. Should we have done to take
responsibility for your response? Me. Yeah. Fuck you. I'm not trying to trigger you, I just you just I didn't tell you anything. You don't already know.
Well, you know what?
I want to I really feel that.
I want to be out there two days a week and I have a lot to say, and I didn't want it to your, you're in. You're the best as far as I'm concerned, it. Interviewing people period. And I wanted to do a ton of solo stuff and a ton of stuff with my kids and husband and friends. And so part of it too. Was, I wanted to have an episode every week that was deeply personal
and then an episode that was more me learning
from. Yeah, I'm curious about that. I mean, I feel very comfortable having conversations with other people, but if I was just sitting here by myself, trying to do a solo episode, that's about the most terrifying thing I can. I'm not good at that. That is not my, you know, sweet spot at all. It's very uncomfortable for me. It obviously suits you perfectly well, but on top of that, you, you know, you only have two episodes up, but the second episode involves your daughter and a very personal issue.
And I'm curious about how like, how, you know, the relation like how you feel about including family members and I mean, obviously, they're willing to participate in all of this. Like, I just know my kids. Like, they wouldn't want anything to do with it. They're doing their own thing. Good for you Dad, but like, we don't want our personal laundry being aired out on the podcast and like respect like totally totally understand, totally, so boundaries, so how I handle his boundaries, I don't want.
Turn my family into a reality show. However, there are things that happen every day in our family, that happened in everybody's family. And so, take Kendall who's a senior at USC, she found out the other day. It's like two weeks ago that a guy that is her ex just casual relationship during college fizzled out. They're not together, but he now likes a friend of
Hers. Mmm and they're all in the same music program and this went down in real time as she is blowing up my phone with texts about this and I texted her back and I said would you be willing to talk to me and could we potentially tape, you know, and can I tape it and we maybe use it as podcast episode and she writes sure and here's the boundary of put in place with my family.
You do not have to do this. You can always say, no and say no all the time if you want and you also can listen back and we'll listen back to whatever we tape and you get to decide if you're comfortable or not with this. And so for example, there are a couple things that we've taped with our 17 year old son, that are about things going on at school for him. The issue that we taped was about him, wanting to drop a friend.
Who's really offensive, but he's part of a larger friend group and all the drama involved with that. And that is what I would call a melting Ice Cube moment that situation that's unfolding in real time. As we're sitting at her kitchen counter and he's asking me for advice or we're just talking through it is something that everybody can relate to so we'll capture that. But I wouldn't are that this year might not air it next year. I'd wait until he's out of high school so that it doesn't impact people in our
community, right? So
So the episode that just went up with your daughter. Yeah. You know, it's been up a day. Yep. You have to assume that it's going to leak out and her friends and classmates and whoever else is going to hear this or be aware that this exists and that obviously impacts how she's going to be able to navigate this whole
thing. Yeah, but here's the thing, like it is so past. She's already dating somebody else like she and the thing is, is that the episode is not about. It's not love Island, like we're not trashing.
Anybody she's calling me to process in real time. That wave of emotion that hits you. When you find out that your ex likes a friend, or you find out that you didn't get that job or you find out. And you now are wrestling with which version of you write. How to respond and how do I respond to this? Because the truth is, she doesn't want to not have them in her life. She also does want to feel the shit she's feeling. Hmm. And so how do you in those moments when the emotional soon?
Nami hits. How do you find your power? And so what I am really proud about in that episode is I'm not even giving her the advice. She's actually unpacking it in real time for herself as she's going. Do I not collaborate with? And do I do this and my upset? Do, I even care? I actually want these people in my life and I'm realizing that they're better musicians than I am, which is making me feel insecure, because maybe that's why they like each other and now it makes me like so there's so much in there. But what I'm
So proud of is, first of all, that she's comfortable sharing it. Secondly, that even if your, the two people I would imagine that she talks so nicely about both of them. And at the end, she's happy for them. And she has risen above her own insecurities, in turmoil, to be able to conduct herself in a way that allows her to get what she wants, which is to remain friends, with people, collaborate with them and open the door to new possibilities. And wouldn't, you know it five days later?
Or literally an amazing human being walks into her
life. Mmm-hmm what? I got out of it and what I found instructive was this sort of instructional audio about how to help somebody navigate through a problem. And disabusing people of the idea that that like, oh here, we'll how do I say this? Here comes Mel she's the one who's going to tell you you know what's wrong and how to fix it and you know the parent is supposed to come in and tell the kid what to do to solve the problem.
Problem. Instead you illustrate the more effective path which is to of empowering Somebody by just asking questions and providing space for them to process it so they can arrive at what is correct for them, right? Like it's not like I'm not going to tell you what to do, but let me ask you this, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this and just kind of retreating a little bit into the background and allowing them to, you know, hit that you
No stick that Landing, which is the most empowering thing you can do, and it's difficult as a parent because you do want to solve the problem, even if you can clearly see, they should do this. And not that it's very difficult. Not to just say
that. Well, that's one of the things that I've been working really hard on is not trying to solve my kids problems, and not trying to fix anything, because I've learned the hard way that my kids don't want my advice.
They want me to listen. They don't want me to come in
with my daughter the other day because I stepped right into that trap.
Yeah. Well I use steal this sentence from a. I can't remember who I got this from, but literally any time they're upset or whatever, or they're blown up.
Do you want my advice or would you just want me to listen, nine times out of 10? When I say that sentence or like I just need you to listen.
And then when they're done blah blah and then they'll typically already think I should do and I'll be like do you want my advice or do you just really want me to validate what you just said and it's amazing how much they're mostly seeking connection and validation, not the solve. And I think if you get them talking, you know, ideally you want to raise independent human beings that have the ability to think through an issue and come to a decision after considering all different
Options and I really appreciate what you just said about the experience of listening to that second episode because I agree with you. I don't sit here and say I have all the fucking answers and I don't want this podcast to be preachy or know-it-all. That's not at all. Like how I relate to myself. I feel like I'm shoulder-to-shoulder with everybody and it's way more illustrative and empowering. I think to hear that conversation unfold then to have me.
Account to story. Oh, so let me tell you, my daughter called me and this is what she said. This is what I told her to do and this is the tool. She said, way more relatable to hear that actual phone call. And an interesting thing is that so this morning when that episode went up, our website, has been flooded with questions about like, because there's a form for submitting topics. I'd say almost every other one is, how do I create a relationship like that with my kid? How do you? And I don't even feel like the expert on?
It like I don't I don't fucking know like I would actually bring all three kids on and say parents are writing in saying how do you create a relationship like that? What's your advice to parents because you're on the receiving end of whatever, it is a dad and I did. What do we do right? What did we do wrong? What is it that they're listening to because what they're listening to I think when you hear the episode with Kendall is you here, the fact that she trusts me and I respect her
And she's willing to share all kinds of intimate details about what she's thinking what she's done who she's intimate with very freely. That's not something that happened overnight that comes over time. Mmm. And I don't even like I wouldn't I don't think I even know how to boil that down. It would have to be them saying what created that? Hmm. What does your instinct tell you though? Um
I think my instinct is probably, you know, one of the gifts of the work that you and I do and how much therapy we've both engaged in and self reflection and self work. Is that you do StumbleUpon really interesting research, that's very informative and I think more than anything else Kris and I have this philosophy that our kids are not extensions of us.
We do not own them, we do not control them as are as parents. Our job is to help them figure out who they are and how to make decisions and how to live with the decisions and accept the consequences of them. And so, I think we've done a really, really good job of trying to emphasize who you are as a person rather than the outside shit. So, like, for example, here's a tactical thing and I don't remember where I
Why where I got this? But whenever we would go into a parent-teacher conference and they go to talk about work, Chris, I literally go. We actually, I don't need to see their schoolwork, don't need to. Maybe that's how we missed Oakley's dyslexia for
years but keeping that channel tell me is everything about who they are at school.
Tell me about the kind of person arguments and I'm way more interested in developing kids that are kind that are
Self-reflective. And
I don't know. I think, I think. Oh, oh. And then the other big thing is just like all the growth mindset stuff. I think it, I think it actually works when you praise a kid for their effort and for they're trying and you know, as crazy as this sounds I also think about like parenting kind of like training a dog. Like you don't train a dog by beating it and correcting it all the time. You actually reward, the good behavior.
And so if you want to see more kindness, call it out and model it at home,
and there's a dispassionate kind of disposition that you have to have. When you were talking earlier about, you know, disentangling yourself from generations and generations of a certain way of being that was tied to workaholism and busyness and drive in the like as much as you do as much work, as you put into that. Like, I know for myself in my weaker moments, like that's still ekes out.
X out in my parenting and so to parent from a place of relative neutrality where you're not projecting that ancestral bullshit onto your kid, I think is super key and when your daughter calls you up there's a sense of feeling safe and not being judged, right? Like you're not evaluating her, you're just listening and that's it's difficult as a
parent as always, I guess. Yeah. I don't.
I definitely was not always like this. I think that it really all started, I think a huge breakthrough that Chris and I had was was when we really thought how are we going to address the issue of daughters and sex? And we took a very probably radical approach. I decided that I was going to address it head-on and so you know, I don't think that we talked enough about pleasure especially with young girls
And so what I did is I basically I basically kind of hijack. The conversation and set our girls down when they were age appropriate, which probably 12 or 11 maybe even early. I remember right about when they were doing the sex ed, it's cool. And what do you know? What do you want to know? Okay, great. Now let me tell you sex is one of the best things about being an adult, it's amazing, especially when you're having sex,
X and making love to somebody, you care about and who deeply cares about you. So here's the deal. When you are in a relationship with somebody, very special, I want you to come to me and Dad and tell me when you're ready to have sex, because we will then take you to the gynecologist, you will make sure you are protected. And when you're ready to do it and you have your protection, will leave the house. You can have the house, you can be in your bedroom because
Cuz it is something that is so amazing that we want you to have your first experience with somebody who is worthy of it and you're worthy of that and you're not ready to have sex. Something that's incredible unless you can actually tell us you're ready.
And what's incredible is your kids are like wait are you telling me to have sex? Are you actually saying I should have sex but there's some grenade that goes off in their
head. What if they came back a month
later? Great okay? What makes you think you're ready? How do they treat you? That's funny because the person's ever been at our house
So why do you think you're ready? Yeah, this is what you really want, okay. But there are ways to continue to but you, you you you shower them with the praise for coming to. You see, most of the times our kids come to us and we like, you shouldn't be drinking it, you shouldn't be doing this versus. Take a deep breath even though inside you're like fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Because when you know, she came to us both of them, same thing, couple years later, I was like, okay, I'm ready.
See, they'd been in long-term relationships and you're like, oh my God, I'm not ready, hmm? But you are honoring the fact that they're going to do what they're going to do.
Do you want them getting relationship advice from their dipshit friends or do you want them actually coming to you? Yeah. Do you want them to be safe? Or do you want them in the corner of somebody's basement during a party and not judging what they bring to you is the hardest part because you kind
of want to channel, doesn't stay open if you're judging totally. That's the thing,
totally. So that's that created, this kind of opening.
That, you know, I remember when one of our daughters was being intimate with somebody just like, you know, how do you like give a blow job and I'm like, ask your father. I don't know. Like, Rocky's good as you did. Chris was mortified but of
course, any ha.
That just feels like an episode of a sitcom or something. Well, you know, but here's our well. This is just a very popular episode of the Mel Robbins podcast. I'm sure. Will ya, if you Broach that
I have this conversation with her kids because most parents want to just turn their heads and be like my kids not drinking, they're not doing that, they're not doing that. And when you make something taboo, first of all, they
Tell you what's going on and secondly, you make it more enticing. When you say you have permission to do these things within guidelines. And with respect, they start to respect themselves.
Yeah. We've had this experience with our with our eighteen-year-old and, and she is open to a fault, like, oh my gosh, she'll come home and man, you should see what's happening and it's terrifying, right? But I think it's also important.
Want to understand and appreciate that. Just because you're doing that doesn't necessarily immunize yourself from the problem. Like there will be you know I was like these are fraught years and stuff happens and shit like that. So when that thing happens to not then get activated and you know, regress away from that whole approach, that got you to the open communication
Place. One of the other things, about regulating that alarm inside you is a lot of times your
Bring you alarming things and we've all had an experience of working for a boss or having a parent that when you bring news it's disappointing or upsetting, they freaking vomit on you and their emotional reaction is actually what you're afraid of. And so, Chris is way better at this than I am. Chris is yoga instructor meditation instructor. He also now is studying to be a death Doula, dude.
Oh wow.
Long way from being a restaurateur. No kidding.
Yeah. And so he is mr. Chill
Nonreactive able to just here and be with. And I've learned a lot from him and I think that non-reaction is incredible because it is a freaking gift when your kids share their lives with you. It's a gift. When people that work for you feel comfortable coming to you and talking about the stuff that's not working. It's a gift that somebody feels safe enough and linked and connected enough to you.
That they will bring hard things to you. And so that's the thing that I have found to be like super rewarding about managing my own shit in terms of the reaction
and the marriage is good.
You know depends on the day. Yeah. No the marriage is real. How
many years you been together
when he's 6 years married? Yeah. How about you
guys 22?
Yeah. The theme that Chris and I have been working on a lot is that we're really good.
Good, not surprisingly at the doing and we're and it's not a situation of being roommates. It's something almost deeper because if it's roommates, it feels like, I don't care about you.
But our lives have gotten so much about the puzzle pieces. Yeah especially as the kids have flown the nest and they're all over the place that we were both very emotionally sequestered from one another. So you know we're doing all this stuff together but we're not wanting to burden.
One another with the things that were wrestling with in our own journals or with their own therapist or. And and the issue that we've been unpacking and therapy is that if I'm the kind of person and we've talked a lot about this busyness, where I am, so going all the time that I quickly, take care of things and quickly do things and quickly. Jump ahead and Chris is a person that is easily provoked to take a step back.
As I'm doing doing, doing part of my campaign and misery is going, why is Chris not doing this? Hmm, and as Chris is sitting back, he's feeling unfulfilled because he's like, when I can never make her happy so white, like I'm just going to go on a hike. I'm just gonna do my thing. And so we over the last couple of years, particularly, you know, as we've been in the process of moving and building this place for two years, we definitely have gone into our emotional Corners, not in a way.
That's like I hate you or but just this sense of loneliness that we both felt. And so we're really good right now because I feel that through having a therapist that we talked to once a week. It's incredible gift to be able to kind of have a place to come to to say that. Like one thing happened today, our son has been sick for four days. They were supposed to fly out today for parents weekend for
my birthday for the podcast launch and we pulled the plug last night and we were able and now have the tools to talk about what is the right decision but to also take a moment and check in with each other about how you're feeling. Hmm. Because I'm sad, you know, I'm sad that they're not here and I also know, I can be two things at once. I can be sad that they're not here and I can also be grateful that Chris is home with Oak and that they're making that decision.
Not to get on a plane. I mean he's covid - but the kids really sick and I can also prioritize finding time to be with him when I get home next week
and you can focus on what you came here to do without distraction and maybe that's a negative. You know, busyness oriented kind of perspective. But I even feel myself thinking like, yeah, but she's here to like launch this thing and now she can just do it and not be worried about, you know, other
People's needs? Yeah, it's tough man. Like being together for a long time. I mean, I definitely relate to a lot of that like Julie super busy. And she's got her start up and she's, you know, putting together this Retreat. She's taking people to Egypt and I have things that I'm interested in doing and, you know, we birthed a lot of creative projects together. But over the years, we've kind of, you know, we have our own respective Corners now and there's something great about that. Like, we each have our domains
And we support each other completely, but it is a lot about the puzzle pieces and, you know, all our kids are still at home and they're somewhat independent. Like they're kind of like the boys have girlfriends. I never know when they're there, when they're not there and Mathis has a boyfriend and she's gone a lot too. But there is a, you know, a Transit Authority, kind of role that you're playing a little bit and it's very easy to lower yourself into believing that you're communicating. Because you're talking about those things.
Yes, yes. Chuck should have nothing to do with your relationship. Yes. So there is an autopilot and and with that kind of autopilot, you can delude yourself into thinking. Everything's cool. And it's static, but it's not really static. If you're in that place, you're regressing. Yeah, and that's something I always have to remind myself of because we have, you know, been in places where it's like our lives are. You know, we're living separate lives right now. Like we need to sort this out and, you know, get back to the intimacy that you know, is why?
Were together in the first
place. Well, for Chris and I, it became an even deeper and more or urgent opportunity and directive. Because what I've discovered is that, you know, kind of trying to break apart my own reaction to that alarm and trying to outrun it and always being busy, right? And Chris is reaction to his alarm is to retreat, Retreat. We actually in many ways, our default patterns were keeping one
Another trapped in those patterns. And so there's been a real opportunity that we're now showing up differently. I mean 28 years into knowing somebody which is super cool so that Chris is more of I my code name is trip leader because as I was trying to think about what are the moments where I am most attracted and feel the most connected and safe with the guy and there's two images. One is
Time we go on any kind of outdoor adventure. Chris is in fucking charge, man. That guy is mr. Knowles mr. Outdoor Wilderness mr. Experience education. And then there's this other image, I have of him. We're when we first met we were in New York City, and I was meeting him for a date, and he came rollerblading in a suit down Fifth Avenue, weaving in and out of traffic with a messenger, baton from work, and he just looked
Like he was a kid at play, and that's the guy one. And that's the part of him that that really makes me come alive. But my fucking busyness, it sends that dude into the courtroom. And so I'm working. Now, both for my own happiness and my own boundaries with work and my own ability to enjoy what I'm doing. I'm also working on breaking that pattern because it allows a part of Chris to step forward.
That he has not been able to do because I've been such a dominant bitch.
And how's it going? I mean can you turn it off? Can you be at home and not working
until yes. Good. Yeah, it's really good. I've really good boundaries with my phone. I mean, I'd like to get to the point where, as of 5:30 6:00 I'm not working. Noon on Friday is not working. I put boundaries in place with speeches. It's a know unless it's middle of the week and something I want to do, and a direct flight only to a month.
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah, I I'm trying, I'm I'm taking the tools. The tools only work if you use them Rich.
Right, I hate that. That's true. Why do you do I want somebody else to do it for me? Mel. I know you just fix it. I know like that, too.
Although I don't think either you and I would never be happy doing
nothing.
Right. But isn't that the ailment? Like, that's, that's the place to go to understand why it is that you can't just be like, shouldn't we be able to just be happy doing nothing even if for a moment
well I can do it for a moment. Yeah. Evening well-defined
moment, we go on
vacation, you know AI? Yeah I think I could for a month but I
After that. Now I've got to put my brain onto
some. Yeah, I mean I I take a month off every year
now, I have now I've never done that and I know that you do and I also know that you go off the grid for a while. There's a lot of I'm stalking you rich. Yeah I'm a
silent recommended Rich. Rolls best I look forward to it and it's been very nurturing and it's allowed me to you know remain enthusiastic about all this stuff. You have to take
breaks. Well I feel like moving to Vermont is very much like that.
Yeah. But
Can occupy your interior space with your busyness and her, you know, delude yourself, are you? Because you're geographically, you know, remote from a city that you're you know, that you're dialing it back when. In fact you're not it's true. The tricks we play right now. Me. Well yeah. Well the last thing I want to talk to you about is this idea of temporal landmarks? You talk about this in the first episode. Explain this to me and then, you know, maybe I'm going to push back here. I don't know. Let me see. Okay, yeah.
yeah, well, so there's this thing that researchers call the Fresh Start effect, which is this moment typically in time that
Opens up sort of this inspirational aspirational behavior and thinking in all of us and they have studied the Fresh Start effect. And again, there's a million examples of how this works. But in the studies around the Fresh Start effect, they talk about specific dates and experiences that create this moment where you break from your past self and you literally feel like you have a fresh start.
And so, the perfect example of this is January 1st on January 1st. You turn the page on the last year and you, you know, flip the page and it's a brand new year and they call dates and experiences like a birthday or January 1st or the beginning of a school semester or Sports season or for some people a Monday for other people have fiscal year that opens up, they call these temporal landmarks and a temporal.
Landmark is something that gives you for a moment, a break from the past, it opens up a new window of time where you consider the future and you consider the future you and so you know a great temporal Landmark. Today's my birthday is the moment when they're going to bring out the cake and there are the candles and as I close my eyes and I blow out the candles, what are you do you make a wish
Right? And have you ever noticed that when you go to make that, wish, you no longer hear people singing because you are taking a break from the moment to consider a bigger possibility and the same thing happens on January 1st and the same thing. And so, these temporal landmarks are something that naturally occur in life. They happen when somebody dies. They happen, when you get married, it's these sort of new chapter effect, if you will, and for just a moment, I'm going to saying that the motivation is sustained. I
Personally think that the Fresh Start effect that we all can relate to when you make a birthday. Wish it was more about your willingness to see something Beyond where you are rather than the motivation to make this shit happen. Mmm.
Yeah, I think it's about ceremony and ritual, right? Like when you inject a certain date or event with kind of a ceremonial energy, it opens up that portal for you to reflect a little bit more deeply.
On your life and cast your gaze forward towards that better self. Unfortunately, the human brain is wired in such a way that these things, you have a very short back to that short you know, the shut the she the half-life of these things, right? Like it's a Trope at this point, it's not even worth
discussing, I disagree because I think you could actually through ritual
Create these sort of temporal landmarks in your day-to-day
life, right? That's what I'm saying. I mean, we can, there are January first, your birthday etcetera, but the choice resides within you at all times to make that different decision. If you want to decide that tomorrow is the day that you're going to create that ritual and ceremony you have that opportunity. We just don't, you know, it's harder and we don't generally
do it is one of the reasons why morning routines are so important because if you get intentional about setting,
Up your morning. Almost like it's a series of temporal landmarks that trigger,
right? In that creates a sustained. Focus on these things that's going to put you in a better place to actually move the ball forward. Correct. Yeah, correct. It's fucking hard though.
That's why you have to listen to the rich World
podcast every week because really you just need to do think a land. Yeah. But you know, you can listen to the podcast as a distraction from actually doing you know the actual things that are going to move your life forward.
That personal development Point. Yeah, there's a lot of that, right? I don't know man. Well, what is why don't you want it? You take us out with, you know, some sort of inspiration or maybe a tool for the person who is stuck, who maybe has made that birthday wish or had that experience of a withering New Year's resolution, you know not really panning out for them. Like how do you get people to basically turn
Own right rather than left. Use your purlins from episode 2, that was
Kendall's. Mmm, that was candles right and left, you know, when you sum up advice, it sounds so stupid and so simple.
But I do think a lot about alignment, and I think a lot about how so often because we are resigned or we convince ourselves that there's no hope. There's no way. This is going to make a difference. The problems are so big. There's no like, without the actual kernel of Hope. Inside you, which I do believe, even if you're stuck, you still have that there.
There's, it's almost like a burner on a furnace, although sometimes those blow out the ones inside a stone. Mmm. And there is inside of you, this desire to be happier. And I believe that the reason why you want to be happier is because you miss being happier and you can only miss things that you know,
and so that tells me that it's within you and we want to make it more complicated than it is. But I'll give you a simple exercise that you can do that. I did with one of our daughters after she graduated from college and two years of it had been imploded by covid. And she basically dealt with the depression and the grief by drinking herself into the ground and you know, putting on a ton of weight and becoming very sedentary and then she just had a complete breakdown after she graduated
It. And so she was sitting with Chris and I and we were just listening to her as she cried and she's like, I just don't know what to do. I'm 20, you know, one years old. How do you, how do you, how do you get unstuck? How do you do this? I said, okay. Well, here's what your let's start here. First of all, I want you to have this breakthrough, you realize, you do know what you need to do. So take out a piece of paper and I want you to draw a line down the center,
and now I want you to think about
when was a time that you felt happier than you feel right now,
And she said, senior year in high school. So that was like, four and a half years from the moment we were talking about and for some people, it might be some moment in childhood. It might be high school, it might be last year, I don't know. Isaac rate. Now, on the left hand side of the paper, I want you to write down all the things that were happening in your life. Then like, what did your day-to-day life look like? Well, like, what time did you get up? What did you do during the day? What did you do near the end of the day? How did you spend your weekends and just research, right? I left the house at 7:00 a.m.
I was at school all day with my friends. I went to lacrosse practice. Five day. You know, five days a week. I drank twice a week. I was looking forward to college. I exercised every day. Like, just boom. Boom, boom. And I'm like great now, write down what your life looks like. Now I sleep till noon, I drink every day.
I don't leave the house. I don't exercise. Like compare mmm.
And change accordingly and what happens in life and I'm guilty of this too as we get so overwhelmed by how big the distances that we need to travel in order to change our lives that we miss the solution. That's right in front of us which is your whole life is about those little things that you do every day and if you're not happy, get out a piece of paper, draw a line down the center and write down the things that you were doing when you were happier or healthier person and add one.
In tomorrow. And if you simply just get out for that walk or by yourself those flowers or start texting a friend today to make plans or you, I don't know, put your name on the list for one of the Huts for the national park in the spring so you have something to look forward to your life. Contains the clues to what actually makes you feel a little happier and when they're sitting there on a piece of paper and then you take a piece of duct tape and
Tape that sucker to the wall next to your bed. So that when you wake up in the morning you see that there's the road Mac, pick one of those damn things, you'll slowly start to feel better and if you can feel better today, you can feel better tomorrow
and that day that you slip up and revert back to the old version, beat the shit out of yourself
in. Yeah, it just beat the hell out of yourself. Tell yourself, CI, socks useless useless. It never works out for me, Heap on the self-criticism, grab the
the alcohol, eat your face off, sit in your house isolate. That's what you should do.
Okay,
know what you need to do is recognize that you're human and to be human means that you are going to have days where you don't do what you said you're into rich. I have not exercised like for real and a month, not at all. Of course, I feel like I know I look relatively, you know, skinny but I feel so bloated and disgusting on the inside, I know what I need to do.
Do I need to get back into my rhythm? There are things that work for everybody and here's the major mistake. We make you talk about it all the time. We let our feelings, dictate what we do.
And we have to do the opposite. If you want to change, you have to lead with the actions that align with the way you want to feel. After you've done the actions, you have to take action first because if you allow your feelings of I'm tired I don't feel like it, it's hopeless. Why bother that feeling will dictate you doing nothing and that's going to keep you on the right side of that page.
if you just look at that list that you created of all the things that you know you should be doing that would just uptick your happiness slightly or make you slightly healthier slightly this or slightly that then
Act like the person on the left hand side of the page.
And then, every time you take that action, your feelings will fall in line, and you'll start to feel more like that person. You know, I don't, I know, I feel bloated. I know I'm not exercising, I don't fucking care right now because I've got something else that I'm focused on in terms of this podcast and the move to Vermont, you know, Landing the plane so to speak. And I also know that the second I get home on Wednesday of next week. I'll get back into that Rhythm. So, why on Earth would I beat myself up right now?
Don't because that is the reason why you're not motivated, the research is conclusive that when you are critical of yourself, it destroys all motivation to act.
And so, if you have a bad day, congratulations, you're breathing. You're a human being. Please do not beat yourself up, Shake It Off. Look at your list and pick something. You're going to do tomorrow
and take the next right action? Correct. Powerful Mel, Robbins coming in hot with the mood follows action wisdom on her birthday. Nonetheless,
say it's my birthday nene,
nene. I love you Mel. Thank you.
You for coming by today and sharing your birthday with us.
You know, I can't think of a better way to spend my birthday. I did get to spend two hours with you ritual, and it was my honor to drive here. In fact, I would fly across the country and drive, those 45 minutes to an hour because it is a privilege to be able to sit in this seat and be able to spend time with you and to have the generosity.
That you are giving to me and to everybody else by sharing this conversation with people that really love and respect you. So thank you.
And I will respond to that by simply saying, thank you and I'm so excited for this podcast, it's going to be massive, it already is huge, it's already a success right out of the gate. So I will throw it right back onto you to say that. You are an amazing servant humankind and my hope,
For you is that you can truly enjoy the process and not get caught up in the externalities because this is the good time Mel. This is the good time. Yeah, right now come back, I will on the other side. Let me know how it goes. Be cool. Thanks, Mal love you. I love you. Cheers peace. That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation.
To learn more about today's guests including links and resources related to everything discussed today. Visit the episode page at Rich world.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch. My books Finding Ultra voicing change in the plant power way, as well as the plant power meal planner at meals Rich Roll.com if you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you
In do is to subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts on Spotify and on YouTube and leave a review and/or. Comment supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated and sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends, or on social media is, of course, awesome, and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books the meal planner and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter which you can find on the footer.
Of any page at Rich world.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason camiolo, with additional audio engineering by kill. Curtis the video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake portraits by David Greenberg graphic and social media assets. Courtesy of Daniel Solis Dan Drake and AJ act podia to say. Thank you Georgia. Whaley for copywriting and website management.
Aunt and of course our theme music was created by Tyler. Pyatt rapper Pyatt and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon? Peace plants.
