This is the jungle underground podcast number 117 sitting with Echo Charles EC Echo
Charlie. Yeah,
how you doing today? Good jock. Oh thanks for asking. Let's be honest kind of a minimum is again a little rough in here prior to the pressing of record. No, I
think you're in one of your moods, which is cool. And you know, I'm glad that you're happy and you're being you but that's it. I don't think I don't I wouldn't call it
off now was I
Write about what about the fact that
sometimes sometimes you spend a lot of time isolated.
You
spend a lot of time isolated or you're just with your kids which look your kids are great. Yep kids are great. But let's face it interacting with your kids is not the same as interacting with an
adult. Yes. That's right. Then
you spend a lot of time on your computer because your computer doing your computer stuff right sir editing.
Yeah, whatever.
Yep. Sure.
So then you get here you feel like maybe you have a lot to say you got a lot of
a lot of stuff built up
right?
I hear correctly. You're not 100% correct? But there is some truth to that. Yes, I would say to the part that you might be slightly misguided is yes. I'm I'm around the same group of people very often very often in what and there's
Stuff in your understand this where there's only there's stuff that I can talk with you about that for a bunch of reasons. I can't really talk to the the fam about but I can if they're either going to be like bro. Why are you even talking to me about this or might not be appropriate or you know just for a bunch of reasons? So to the end State? Yes, is
that I'm spot on. Yes, sir. You are never mind what you say misguided about the end state.
You know Miss guiding whatsoever. Yes, you're
accurate. Yeah, or a way to look at it is. Hey, look I come to you for a lot, you know a handful of things. You know that I can't go to other people for no matter who they are right and look I got you here. Hey, we're here I'm saying we're going to we're going to we're going to get full full credit full advantage. You know, sure I love the scenario. Yes. So in that way, yeah. You're correct. Okay.
Well, that being said I wanted to talk to you today.
About defense mechanisms good thing to discover not discoverable good thing to explore. Yeah, because people have defense mechanisms that they use and I have talked about these defense mechanisms before excellent front like talking to clients talking to people talking about leadership, but and we're going to get into some of those I think but they're rooted in the idea of defense mechanisms, which is what everybody is kind of heard of we have these and they what a defense mechanism
his
psychological defense mechanisms unconscious psychological
operation that a person conducts to protect themselves from anxiety from stress.
And from those
feelings from developing so I would there's a website very well mind.com and I just grabbed some some of these defense mechanisms.
One of them is displacement.
Which is when you take your feelings out on someone else and the example of this is being angry at your boss, but taking it out on your spouse's Instead This is make sense. Now, what a defense mechanism is, you've heard this term before right what defense but yeah. Oh yeah big
time, but but I'm wondering I'm kind of looking at these they guess it's got just really in general because you know defense mechanism is like sometimes they reviewed as like a bad thing like misappropriated like you you don't have to use this but you are we'll get into
that. Okay, there's different.
Levels to there's different levels of different types. There's some of them that are extremely bad. Yeah, so we'll get to them. Okay, but I think first just going through some of them denial clearly denied the the denying that something exists. That's a that's a defense mechanism violent crime happens to you and you deny that even happened repression unconsciously keeping unpleasant information from your conscious mind get abused as a kid and you
repress that memory
Or suppression consciously keeping unpleasant information from your conscious mind. So you choose to push it out of your mind sublimation converting unacceptable impulses into more acceptable Outlets. What does this mean you get into a fight with your spouse or you get into an argument with your spouse and you start to get angry but instead.
Of getting in a fight yelling and screaming you go for a walk or you go hit the heavy bag or something like that. That's sublimation.
Projection
here this one a lot. Right? You're projecting. Yeah. Do you ever see the movie Wedding Crashers? Yeah good use of the word projecting in there. Mmm projecting you're projecting which I do remember I can't remember the context of it. I just remember it being funny.
Assigning your own unacceptable feelings or qualities to others.
So if you're feeling that the example that they give your feeling attracted to someone other than your spouse, but then you get mad at your spouse thinking that they're cheating on you. So you're projecting your own inadequacies onto someone else.
Intellectual intellectual tool ization butchered that one to lecture intellectualization. This is thinking about a stressful thing in a super clinical way kind of an interesting one, right? And the example here is losing a close family member and staying busy with making necessary arrangements instead of feeling sad.
Rationalization justifying, an unacceptable feeling or behavior with logic then they give a good example for this one being denied a loan for your dream house then saying it's a good thing because the house to Big anyways, right just rationalism rationalizing regression reverting to earlier behaviors hugging a teddy bear when you're feeling stressed like you did in your child.
Reaction formation replacing an unwanted impulse with its opposite. So being sad about a recent break break up but acting happy about it. So those are just some some examples in there's a lot more but to your point earlier your suspicion was these can have a negative connotation you are correct. So there's the I
think these would level one.
Geez,
these are pathological defense mechanisms. So these are as these are bad just bad as it gets one is delusional projection.
These are where you are projecting on someone a complete delusion.
Total denial like this did not happen as opposed to like no, I don't think it was that bad. But no that didn't happen total denial and then and then one is Distortion. This is a gross reshaping of
reality.
So these things are pathological like these are going to be extremely problematic for the person that is experiencing these things
and then the next level they have is
It's it's
not going to be a pathology that's going to cause you significant duress or issues, but it's definitely problem these they just called them immature. So acting
out
hypochondria.
Passive-aggressive projection and they had one term which I had an action never heard before which was splitting which was seeing everything is black and white, you know, when someone flies off the handle and like you can't you can't have a rational conversation with them because everything is black and white to them. Yeah, that's that and it's kind of its kind of immature. Yeah. It's like when you know, your kids are like I don't even want to go then yeah, you know what? I mean? Yeah, they're
Like we could have gone to the birthday party, but you didn't want to clean your room. I don't even wanna go that it's like black or white. Yeah, okay, you know like that type of thing. At least that's the way I understood it my very novice way of reading through these things.
It seems like um, like that splitting has like similar to a false dichotomy. I know it's like a different way of conceptualizing but false dichotomy is the kind where you do it as a joke to me sometimes when I was like, oh you're paying we're talking about the taste of certain things where I was like, oh, it doesn't it's not
three hardcore the making it taste all delicious and you're like, well, yeah, what else I'm going to do make it taste like complete crap, you know like Brad that's false dichotomy know there's a bunch of different steps that you could have took besides the you know, the extreme kind of a thing but in a way splitting kind of follows that same rule book in a way where it's like big like stream in the other
direction. Yeah, and I may have to doubt when I was reading are splitting as kind of there's more to it. There's more to its will do will probably dive into these things.
But the general idea that I got from it was it's like hey, this is either black or white and you end up sort of doing that in an immature
way. Yeah, like, you know the idea of you're either with me or against me kind of a thing, you know, like that seems like real black and white. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want. Yeah, then the next
level towards a healthy which is kind of weird because the to me immature sounds worse than or sounds better than neurotic, but the next level which is
less bad. So the worst is pathological. The next one is immature. The next one is neurotic it which was the first one is displacement shifting impulses or emotions to a safer Outlet which means and sort of like it's very similar to the first one. I said it like, oh you're in a fight with your wife so you or you're mad at your boss. So you take it out on your wife, that's displacement. But the this one is a little bit more positive where you're taking an emotional.
That you have that's bad and you're going to put it onto something that is a little bit more acceptable. So, you know and they actually in the definition they were talking about like having a like a sexual urge and instead putting it towards something that's a little bit more acceptable working out. Yeah. Yeah, like working out or yeah something along those lines dissociation this walk in this one sounded pretty bad.
What you have a drastic change of your personal identity like you start acting like a different person and then this is the one we covered already intellectualization excessive analytical thought so as you pointed out look I've given people this advice before. Hey something really bad happens give people tasks to do where they can kind of get distracted for a lack of a better word on for example planning for the funeral.
Like that to me is not a horrible thing and that brings us to the the last of these levels which is just mature which is using these defense mechanisms. But as a almost in a positive way, it's like yeah, this is a defense mechanism for instance. One of them is altruism. So what can I do that's positive that will kind of make me feel better about
something that went wrong. Oh you had
to
You had to
you had to take your kid to the doctor and they were mad about it. You know, what we're going to take you to the ice cream store to you know, what I'm saying, like doing something nice and on a bit like I guess in a more extreme way. Let's say you owned a company and you were you did something went bad with your product. And so you donated a bunch of money kind of altruistically humor, right humans good little defense mechanism that we use sometimes somebody picks on you kind of make fun of yourself. Well the self-deprecation I think
School, we already talked about sublimation like you mentioned. Oh, we're going to work out instead of getting mad. We're going to work out instead of
Getting angry and frustrated and maybe lashing out at a person in a violent way you go change it to instead. Yeah, and then suppression in a positive way what suppression means is not I'm suppressing the fact that I was abused as a child. No, it's hey, you know what? I'm going to consciously decide that I'm not going to get emotional right now because I've got a deal with the situation at hand. So that's actually a mature thing to do. Hey, I can't freak out right now. I'm mad, but I have to
Deal with the scenario that I'm presently in so these defense mechanisms are present and just if you take them to an extreme, they can be really really bad. If you use them correctly, then they're not necessarily bad. But if you can understand them and understand that other people might be doing these things it can help you get through some sticky situations now, I when I think about defense mechanisms,
I think about them and I'm not sure I don't I need to study them more but there's some defense mechanisms that people have that. They utilize.
From a leadership perspective. I'll give an example browbeating your the term browbeating. You've heard me talk about it. But does that a normal term for people to hear browbeating? No, I only heard it from you. Okay. So browbeating is for me a defense mechanism that Echo when you question me about
you know, hey, what
can we record at?
Eleven instead of 10 and you kind of question my authority. So what do I do? I probably eat you you don't even understand why we got to be there at 10:00 because all you have to do is go in there and press record this ridiculous you be there at 10:00. Like I said, so you see I'm saying I'm brave. It makes you like throws you off. You don't even want to you don't want to you don't want to question me anymore. Mmm. So I use as a defense mechanism. I use this browbeating. I kind of use this hyper aggression not overly aggressive where
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