What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompeo. Know most of you know me as pump. You're listening to the pump podcast. Simply the best podcast out there. Now. Let's kick this thing off. Today's episode features, Max Keiser, and Stacy Herbert. They've been around in Bitcoin for a long time, buying Bitcoins under $10 and then going around the world everywhere. Any country you could think of and explaining the benefits of the digital currency. Today. We talked about everything from El Salvador to other emerging Nations. We talked about the problems in the Legacy financial markets. And we also
Talk about all sorts of interesting topics, like, will Texas and Florida. Ultimately, try to leave the United States. This episode was a lot of fun, and I hope that you enjoy it
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Second, you should not treat any opinion expressed by pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy. But only, as an expression of his personal opinion, this podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, a very special treat for everyone.
We have Max and Stacy both here in studio. How are, how are both of you?
Great. John, y'all getting married. I see well.
I'll punish you to get when did you two get married?
Hey, I brought a business jacket because I thought this was the best business show, but everybody here is in like, t-shirts and sweatshirts. So I was deceived was false advertising. Well, some
business show. Well, here's the the whole key to it is that most people go on business shows and they feel like the clothes they wear signal more about their intelligence than the ideas. They bring sure.
Right, but you to show up and oh my God, they got great clothes and great ideas. So it's perfect. Yeah.
Yeah. Is also no pizza and the pizza box.
Stacy got here a few minutes early and I can see, they rated the entire office for the swag. All right, what up? What have you two been up to, I want to first answer three is when we met pomp 2003, and then we just remember, we got married three times. Actually, three times y, 3 times. We just love each other so much. No,
it's it was more like a silver alert. We weren't sure do we get married already?
We married.
All right, you guys recently went to El Salvador. I want to start there. Yeah, and you've got the El Salvador hat on there. Yeah walk me through your experience. Going to the Country. Wow. There, you know, since the early days, pop. We've been talking about the potential for Bitcoin to be adopted by a country and become legal tender to become a Bitcoin, Citadel or become a beacon for the world, a new expression.
Of freedom for the world and you know, Tour de mistura was on my show seven years ago. We were talking about this and also a few other folks have been talking about this. No country yet is pulled the trigger. No one said the the balls to do it yet. So the president buchelli just, you know, he said, you know what, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make Bitcoin legal tender. So we went there and the place is being transformed by buy Bitcoin. So started on bitcoin Beach, but that Vibe is
Spreading everywhere. There's hope everywhere GDP in the country. Looks like it's going to do. They had their best print. Since the early 90s. You're not going to 10% this year. Probably a lot higher next year. I'm going to go there, we're going to go there. We're going to become citizens there. And my objective is to help transform, El Salvador into the Singapore of Central America. So that means bringing in doing the startups looking at startups.
We've been investing in Bitcoin startups since 2013, looking at wealth management. Tools Investment Banking everything across the board because this is going to be a, it's just a huge growth story. So everyone there was just on a, it's a great time. So L Zante is the beach Town, Bitcoin Beach and I got my first surfing lesson. Are you good? I'll be needing some additional surfing the waves, the volcano.
The Jungle the energy. The people. It's fantastic. It's a classic turnaround story. It's an Emerging Market Story. The Bitcoin bond is a huge part of that story. And this is a very exciting piece piece of the puzzle. Okay, so I want to start first basis. You can talk about the leadership, right? In terms of somebody has to pull the trigger. Somebody has to be the one to say, okay, we're going to do this. What was your read on buchelli, the government and like, how important they are.
To get it started. And then how important is it that they continue to push this versus no, once you get started, then the people kind of take over and the government may not be as important in the future.
So, when we went to El zonte, that's the only place I've ever been and all these years and Bitcoin. That is hyper Bitcoin. I used it. So it is Bitcoin hyper Bitcoin. I just and I think it was a from the bottom up. I think buchelli is a start-up party and a two-party country and they won in a landslide. They created this party out of nowhere.
And, you know, started this new Revolution there, and as Max said, we interviewed Tour de mistura back, in 2014, February 2014 & Mack Center were speaking about this, that, which would be the first country to hyper Bitcoin eyes. And what they determined was that it would be a small country.
It would be a Nimble country and it would have economic freedom. Now, the economic freedom seems to be following. If you look at buchelli on Twitter. If you look at him responding to bitcoiners when we went there for the Bitcoin conference little bit Kampf, there were, for example, some people had problems because of the PCR test and all the covid restrictions, which then he removed because all these bitcoiners were complaining about it. So
I think he seems to be responsive to the people, including now Bitcoin, because it's the first hyper Bitcoin eyes Nation. So, you know, we always discussed the fact that whenever like, whenever we travel around the world, we feel like bitcoiners first and then American second and now Salvadoran, you know, we feel bitcoiners and like, you've been there, right? Like, you know, how it is to be a Bitcoin. I write like,
You feel so much more in common with a Bitcoin ER than with any other thing male American, you know, whatever your New Yorker, you know, you feel like a big corner and and it feels like a Bitcoin Nation. Now, I didn't you know, there were some people who were saying like, oh, he's forcing this on to the population, but when you're in San Salvador,
There weren't that many people that took Bitcoin. So our hotel, didn't the restaurants didn't. So we were free to not use Bitcoin. So nobody asked for we did ask a few places if they accept a Bitcoin but also want a is hyper Bitcoin eyes. And it's the first time I've ever actually had to use and been able to use lightning in the real world. It was lightning payments everywhere. Everybody knew how to use it down there. What was the
comparison?
And two, if you were, you know, here in Miami, and you go to a coffee shop, you go to dinner Etc in the payment services versus there was it did it fulfill the promise? I think that a lot of people have like it is better. Or did you feel like there were still some user experience kind of snafus or obstacles or friction? Like, just talk to me about the actual
experience. I didn't have any snafus, like there was a guy riding his little moped, salda, some pupusas and just showed us phone paid for it. And we drove he drove off. It was like, instant like that. Yeah.
There's
the, the chiva wallet is. It's okay. There's a couple of bugs with it. But other wallets are now popular. The moon wallet. Mu U n-- is very popular, other Wilds, green wallet. So that's Grill on the ground entrepreneurialism. That's why I'm excited. A lot of startups. You know, I think I can help create 50 60 jobs down there, right off to right off the bat. Just bringing in some some money, some capitals, some expertise, get some startups going. They're already going. I'm just kind of plugging myself into the volcano.
You know of energy that's going on there and it's great to see buchelli. Openly a troll and mock the IMF on Twitter. I mean, he, I figured you would love that. That's not a surprise. It's great. I mean, because the IMF and and all these Global banks have really been the bane of these countries and Central America Latin America explain. What like, what is the relationship between the IMF and these countries. And why do you think that's been a problem? Well, Central America Latin America us is overthrown. Something like 15, countries in that region and
And it's always been a colonial backyard of the United States. And so the use of debt as a weapon has always been the case. If you read John Perkins book, confessions of an economic Hitman explains exactly how the u.s. Goes in there and they loaded up with debt and they end up acquiring assets. And there's been very little movement on that in terms of how to escape Us. Colonial interests. And so now with Bitcoin, what's been recognized at that, it's a path out. It's a
You're out. They can have this on confiscate Ebola censorship proof money that the IMF can't get their dirty little hands on and their IMF is freaking out. The central bank's I think are on notice now that the game is up. There's a new sheriff in town and that is Bitcoin. And so that's been the relationship historically, and I think all another great tweet was from president. Buchelli. It was only three words, but
It said volumes. Somebody was trying to make the case that you know, you really shouldn't piss off the IMF and you know, you guys need to get right? And he only tweeted, three words United Fruit Company. Now, if you know the history, you know that the United Fruit Company which later became Chiquita. Banana was really one of the first and the biggest US company corporations to come into the region. And essentially overthrow the, the government and for the corporate.
Of the United States. And so the Latin America like many countries around the world. They don't reap the benefit of their local resources, their local Commodities. They are client states of the US and US corporations. So, here are, but Callie and he says, I took somebody to really push it through who had to say, you know, what, we're going to do this. He's a real entrepreneur, you know, I like an empty, George Washington, you know, George Washington had to actually start.
Or, you know, the get a war going to, a lot of people in England, hated George Washington, as an American. I venerate George Washington. During the American Revolution, a third of the population. Hated the idea. Another third of the population was ambivalent maybe a third of the population wanted to establish a freedom from from the Empire. The English Empire. So but it took a band of rebels to do it and they had the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
With Bitcoin, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights. The Declaration of Independence are already coded into the white paper. It's already there. All you need is that white paper and you effectively have everything, you would find in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And what's amazing pop. Is that here? You have a country smallish country. That had because of the voluntary efforts of open-source developers around the world, the Taproot upgrade? They
Pay for that. They didn't have to worry about that. The judge their money got upgraded overnight, to Tap Root. And now they've got even better money than they had when they started when we first adopted Bitcoin and that trend is going to continue. So, they've got the hardest money, the best money. They've got the entrepreneurial Spirit. They've got the resources. They've got a great leader. That's why we're moving there. That's why we're becoming else, you know, Salvadorian citizens. That's why I'm going to learn how to surf. That's why I'm gonna get a really nice tan building enough Sante. All right, so talk to me about
Moving to El, Salvador and getting the citizenship one. Why are you moving? Why are you getting the citizenship? But also to how does it actually work from a kind of operational standpoint? Right? So the volcano bonds that there's a big story. What was an idea that was floated. Is that similar to other countries that offer citizenship economic citizenship like in the Bermuda, another country, if you to sing kid.
Portable. They all do it. Yep. They have, there's a different programs out there. So the idea was floated. Hey, you know, put 100,000 into these volcano bonds and you're on the fast track to citizenship or permanent residency. So I tweeted that, you know, I'm tough. We're very interested in this. We would love to become Salvadorian citizens and within a half hour. We were getting tweets back and feedback back from the president and other people in the government saying, you know, will make you citizens ASAP, you know, by the end of this.
This year will get you will get you, your citizenship. We want entrepreneurs. We think you guys would be great, kind of leading the pack and a whole wave of Bitcoin immigrants who are looking for Bitcoin City looking for a Bitcoin country. So I think for me, this is the biggest thing since the Genesis block, you know, for me since I've been in this for 10 years.
This is the most exciting thing. I've seen really in many, many years. And I've always tried to be at the front of the, the front of the, you know, the tip of the spear, you know, the really the, the edge of what's happening and I think this is it. So that's what that's put all together and packing our bags and going. Yeah. Would you guys become Salvadorian citizens?
I would, I'm curious like what
the, what the response was from, or the vibe from, like citizens
down there. Are they do they understand exactly what's going on?
Super excited about it or they looking to learn more,
just kind of your guys, thoughts on that. Well, my pitch to everybody is essentially, here's on confiscated will money. It's censorship proof money. Right? And everybody wants to have savings. Everyone wants to have some store of wealth. Everybody wants to build a nest egg. Everyone wants to have a future and the problem in these various countries is that they've been dealing with inflation and hyperinflation and Corruption.
And so when you say look here's money that you only you control and it's the hardest money ever that just immediately gets people's attention and it's a real, it's a real need. There's a need for it. Whereas in the u.s. A lot of people because this is a much different situation is more seen as a tech project or is it it's something a fad or something and there's no a lot of people here, don't see it as a real burning need but except for maybe the, you know, I was very early on talking.
To the black community in America, you know, if you look at Isaiah Jackson's, Buck Bitcoin, in Black America, he mentions me and like the second page and saying he heard about it. With Keiser report, Max Keiser a notable white man was, you know, proselytizing Bitcoin and the black community in America is the highest concentration of Bitcoin adoption in America for the simple reason that son confiscated oil wealth, you know, this is a community that's at his wealth, confiscated over and over and over.
Over again for you know three hundred years, right? So he said here's on confiscated oil wealth as of the the two magic words and it's like all right, I'm in and so that's true all over the world all over the world. Especially with you have US dollar Gemini all over the world inflation is now huge all over the world and as an inflation protection as many have explained it. So brilliantly. Bitcoin is par Excellence, really? It's nothing better.
What do you think inflation D? I'm assuming you don't believe that. It's actually.
6.2%. And if you do or don't like how bad can it actually get? Well, we've been talking about inflation on Keiser report for a number of years. We've always said, you have to look at the rate of money printing or m 1 or m 3 and not look at the official numbers because the official numbers have been cooked for decades the hedonic adjustments and all these other things that are done to make it look like inflation. Is low is, is you have to look past that? And look at the real m3m.
To M1 money supply numbers. And when people started figure that out, they stopped publishing M3, right? Because they don't want people to know the rate at which money is being printed, but that's that's the rate at which you should look at with inflation now, approximately 18 months ago. Michael sailor came out and with his famous analogy of the melting Ice Cube and said, look, we had a lot of money in our balance sheet and it's losing 15% of its of its purchasing power year or monetary energy as he likes to say, which is the real
Station number. And at the time, the government was still saying, hey, you know, relation is whatever 45 percent. They are actually calling a deflation. If you recall, they were calling inflation deflation. Then they said, oh it's inflation is transitory now. It's cyclical now, it's forever. So the Prague the prognosis for inflation is that we've entered into a secular inflationary period, where you're going to see prices rise due to the excess of
Money printing. Now for a number of years, you know, in America. We haven't had an inflationary depression really outside of the Revolutionary War in the Civil War. If you remember, the 30s were as a deflationary depression and in the 70s it was stagflation. This is just going to be an inflationary depression, like why Mar Germany or some Bob way they're going to print themselves and I can explain you know, that there's a structural problem here. Why?
Interest rates are never going to go up because over the past 20, or 30 years, you have this policy of extend and pretend. We're all problems. Are recapitalized refinance, new bonds are flooded. The debt keeps going higher and higher, but the maturity rate on the debt gets longer and longer. You have a duration risk, the 30-year treasury bond wasn't even around when I was a stockbroker back in the early 1980s. So the problem with that is that the entire complex of debt? Structurally is incredibly sensitive to any rise in rates.
And that's so they're there and they're like a Paul volcker. Could not come in raise rates and restore purchasing power of the dollar. That's off the table that can't happen due to the structural the fragility of this bond market. That has incredible duration risk. So we're going to, they're only going, there's only one option and that is hyper hyper printing from here. And when you think about that hyper printing, is it simply the game of devalue, the currency to pay off the debt and the future, with those devalue currencies and so we can make a logical argument while.
Should do it. But do they not understand what the
impact is or do they not have another
choice? So they do understand it, but they have no other options they have to do it. Anyways, not to get overly political. But you know, you do have a situation where the people who benefit most from the money printing that continuing errors a term that we coined on the Keiser report who get the money first and buy assets and who make out like Bandits. They're not unhappy with the money that's being printed.
Simultaneously. It would appear as though there is a trend toward reducing people's rights rights of movement, right? Of communication, Free Speech, even in some places and Europe. For example, people are getting locked up. I don't think you can separate those two. I think this trend toward hyper Printing and locking people up It Go together because they don't want the blowback. They don't want to end up like another
Reign of terror situation were 35,000 French. Nobleman got beheaded by The Peasants who got tired of all the money printing in the monarchy, right? So they're aware of this. They're like, wait a minute. We don't want to do that. So let's just lock people up and print all the money anyway, so there are they're out of control. Basically. I mean, I don't think that's that's, that's wild statement. You know, I think that would be historically. We've seen this before and economically. We see this.
Happening now and we also there's nobody and make who's in a position to write policy. That's making any intelligent comments or choices about this at all. I haven't heard a single person. Make any intelligent comments about what really would need to be done. So when we think about the current situation, we've got six plus percent CPI inflation. We've got four to four and a half percent unemployment. There's 11 million open jobs in America. There are 80 percent of Americans that are already being paid over $15.
Our. And we've got this Public Health crisis, which continues to fluctuate in terms of, I think the severity of the Public Health crisis and which areas in the country are or are not worried about it, which seems to be bleeding into monetary fiscal policy. How do both of you think about the current environment? They're now talking about tapering they're saying that oh, look, we're going to actually change this Stacy. You're smirking.
So what do you think is actually going to happen here? Do you think that they can taper at all?
They've been saying that for who five years, six years that we've been covering this on Keiser report and every single time the headlines come out that there are about to taper. We always tell people and Keiser report. They're not going to taper because you can't tape or upon Z. So we've said that for the last six years, they'll continue to say it and it seems to work at least temporarily, you know to the markets respond. The dollar soar is everybody thinks. Oh, oh that
They're going to taper for real this time, but they're never going to and how can they, how can they write? Like we there's more debt than ever. So they can never taper that Ponzi scheme.
When you think about interest rates. Are we going to see nominal negative interest rates in America?
I think we probably already have them, right?
They already have negative real rates. Yeah, we already have negative real rates. Nominal GDP
will see the actual -
literally go. In those say, the negative rate is negative one percent
when they are ready to just give up. Because if they do that, then the dollars toast.
Yeah, we had a little taste of that during the 2008 crisis. Remember there was this talk about, we can't break the buck, the money market funds out there which are not
On cash right? There is its short-term debt all money market funds and there was a threat that they would go under a dollar, the official rate and they did everything that was humanly possible. Including remember you had Tim Geithner and others go in front of Congress and say we need just under a trillion dollars. Congress said, we need to read what the document is and they said, okay look at it tomorrow market crash that night and then they came back and they they signed it and that led to 16 17.
Trillion in various bailouts and credit facilities. So I think that rather than go - nominal on the actual rate. I mean, that just keep going, extraordinaire expecting printing, I think.
Actually, I realized you could see it in the news basically that the geopolitics over the past few months is like, there seems to be some sort of tension, really building escalating rapidly with China, they'll do nominal rates and they'll blame China. They'll say we had to do it because of China.
They own all this dead of ours and they own, you know, so much of our bonds and stuff like that. So they'll say they had to do this because a China and China force their hand, you know, the fact that all these Chinese companies are gonna have to delist from the New York Stock Exchange and stuff like that. I just think there's like some sort of building, you know, the thucydides Trap is real and it's happening and this is this is the moment they're going to use that as an opportunity to say we need nominal rates and if you're a patriot, you'll support this because
Because this has to be
done. Yeah. With the, with the promise of you bite the bullet.
You're fighting China.
Yes, like war bonds, right? They offered him at a lower coupon than other non war bonds to help fight win the war right during the during the war. So that could be sold in that way. That in order to be China. You need to take a negative nominal rate on your, on your bombs. Yeah. Treasury bonds, talk to me about Pension funds and large Capital allocators. It seems like they're really screwed. Right? They've for years, and years and years. Now, applied kind of a
40 type portfolio. A lot of it is kind of cover your asset worse. I don't want to have any sort of career risk. So if I just do what everyone else is doing that, I can't get fired and that has been, okay, right. Most of them are hitting somewhere between, you know, five to seven percent their Actuarial rate of return is usually somewhere seven and a half, eight percent, but they're missing the Mark. We just saw Calpers, which is one of the largest Pension funds in the country decided they're going to now start taking on Leverage. They're gonna start adding more alternative assets like you.
You just start seeing some of this stuff, and I don't think they even think that they're necessarily becoming more conservative or better investors. They're just saying, like, we have no choice. We have to do this or literally. We can't pay people like I read that.
First of all, I want to say Max pretty much got kicked off stage. And what was it? Two thousand, five, or six? When he was on stage with one of the heads of Calpers at the time. It was a 2005. Say, let you close. Yeah. Yeah. It was that the triple bottom line investing conference and
They it was just announced. It was like in March or April of maybe 2007 or something at that 2006. And they had just announced that they bought all these, cdos the headlines, look, it up from bear Stearns and Max said, you know, why these things are going to 0. So and why are you putting this in these your Pension funds for these teachers and, you know, government workers and in in California and they refused to have their you know there.
As a group photo afterward and they were like we can't have Max and there but the bear Stearns blew up soon. After that Max said it was going to 0. So. But I think one quick thing is that, in terms of the pension stuff. I think it's, that's kind of intergenerational because know, Millennials are Zoomers, have pensions, right? It's just the Boomers and the boomers are trying to reconcile with reality. And the reality is that they've incurred a huge amount of debt. They blew the Legacy. That was America. They blew this giant.
Amazing economy and turned it into trash exported, all our jobs left. Hollow out shell of rust belt and 100,000 annual overdose deaths. So they're the ones that created that and I think, you know, fortunately for Zoomers and Millennials. They've got Bitcoin.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Pension funds, he's talking again in five to seven percent. But how far out on the risk curve? Are they going for that? They're going way out on the risk or, you know, 10-year treasuries are one and a half percent.
Aunt. So they're taking on an enormous amount of risk and they're exposed to an enormous amount of risk and they're going to lose an enormous amount of money. And that's pretty clear. The what's really sad about the whole pension industry and about the savings industry is that the artificial suppression of interest rates, you know, if the past 10 15, 20 years as effectively moved five trillion dollars from pension accounts and savings accounts.
To the pockets of speculators. It's theft, right? Interest rates should have been allowed to increase long ago. The normalized rates that, you know, if you look at different schools of thought and different studies, you know, you come up with around 5%, would be a normalized rate and we kind of fluctuate around 5%. So we've been hovering around zero for years now even. And even though you've got all kinds of indications of bubbles forming everywhere, that would require a response from the
The central bank to raise rates instead they've lower grades. And they've effectively stolen a lot of money from these pension accounts. They go into the speculators pockets and then speculators end up getting more political power and then they end up influencing Washington to pass laws to make it easier for them to take money out of pension accounts. You know, this is something else. Salvador is going to have a chance to avoid because they're now going to be writing Securities laws and rewriting Securities laws for the first time in El Salvador and they're
Do so in ways that have go to school on the problems in the US and what's happened and to avoid all that and based on built on a Bitcoin standard. So all that kind of influence peddling Market manipulation and this the top, you know, the market, you know, you watch our show, you know, my show, you know, us we've been reporting on this in, not only on the Keiser report, but going back, 18, 19 years, the amount of manipulation by these Banks and bankers is ludicrously.
A off, the chart. I mean, Jamie dimon, I'm not going to go on a huge tangent there, but they've paid hundreds of millions of dollars in fines. They were caught rigging precious, metals markets, at Bank of England, caught rigging Libor Market every single Market maker and Bank around the world's been caught manipulating Market, stealing money. Front-running markets. Congress is even trading on inside information. They might the level of corruption is extraordinary, and it's all fueled by that, Ultra cheap money. That's why they don't want to raise rates, you know, think Nancy. Pelosi wants higher rates if she's able to stick.
Sticky little fingers in the pie every day, and take some cash out based on insider trading and artificially cheap credit. That's not where it's going to come from. So they're incentivized to commit fraud. If you took fraud out of the u.s. Business model, you'd have nothing.
Joe John, do you guys have any sort of like, pension plans or outside of her signature? Smell retirements?
No, I just have retirement accounts Bitcoin. Yeah, I mean,
yeah, I do think I also make body today. He wrote a paper. Got like, Bitcoin is life insurance as well. Right? And his main argument was, hey, normally, what you do is you buy a policy, you then pay your premiums and that at some point in the future. Somebody pays your loved ones, your family or friends future value for what you purchased upfront and
There's some Arbitrage there one. You do ultimately died. And his argument was, well, that's basically what Bitcoin does as well. Right? If you buy the Bitcoin today and you hold it for a long period of time, Bitcoin becomes your life, insurance policy in the very unique way, and would you be better off buying the life insurance and paying the premium or just buying Bitcoin, right and allowing it to appreciate what you guys think about that? Well, the insurance industry is a huge buyer of interest rate products that the very arbitrageur you're talking about, is the basis for how the in
Charts company operates, their payouts are going to be less than the aggregate income from their premiums and what they have in earning interest at various treasury, bond markets. And I think that one of the Fall outs from the blow-up and the global bond market is going to be the insurance industry gets blown up as well. So there won't be an insurance industry one, you see? And when these bonds blow up finally, so I think it's prudent to seek alternative ways to save.
Are the future Bitcoin. Obviously, offering, as Nick points out, you can it's a substitute for life insurance on this way.
Plus, it's an asset you own because if you weren't around during the 2008 financial crisis, as Max mentioned, it was breaking the buck and the mutual fund sector but also it was the insurance sector, which really got bailed out. It was AIG and the likes of those that got bailed out if if it weren't, you know, on the surface everybody thinks okay. It was Goldman Sachs and was all these JP Morgan.
I were bailed out but really it was the other side of those derivatives and the AIG. So they could have gone bust overnight and that could happen in the next situation. So, your life insurance company. Whoever has underwritten your life insurance policy. They could go bust
easily. Yes, the counterparties that they had to bail out, don't get as much attention as I saw. The same thing happen in August. In September of 1987. I was working as a stock broker in New York and during the crash of 87. And people talk about Black Friday where the market dropped I think.
2%. But on the following Monday, the market was set to open down another 500 points and it would become then, they said every insurance company in America would be bankrupt insolvent. So it was then when Robert Rubin Ronald Reagan and Alan Greenspan form the working group on finance, which became known later as the plunge Protection Team. And that was a seminal moment in American Financial history because For the First Time the federal government was buying S&P futures contracts to bail out the stock market, so,
Free market capitalism As We Knew It kind of died on that day and that's metastasized and become huge. So that instead of being, you know, part a little Fringe aspect to the markets that has become the tail wagging. The dog. It is the market. The government is in there every single day. Steering prices, moving things around changing laws, really at the behest of the small Coterie of insiders and the free market as we know that America doesn't.
This anymore, is that a net positive or net negative since they started? It's a shit show. That's why we're moving to El Salvador. I'm looking forward to getting out of this shithole. Or are you so sick of these privileged Wall Street Bankers? Getting the free handouts and and claiming that. They need more free handouts at the expense of everybody. Look at Society. It's breaking down hundred thousand overdoses last year from you know, the pharmaceutical industry Oxycontin in the rest.
The cities are breaking down. San Francisco, New York, Chicago. That's almost sides. Last year. Homicide was the single largest one year, jump in homicides in any given year in history. That's and that's that's growing. That's a plague. The America has a plague of violence and Corruption. It's an oligarchy plagued by violence and Corruption and it's growing exponentially because of the money printing, that's that's the cause of it. You're rewarding the
First in society. It's called a cactus talk or see where its rule by the worst. Not a meritocracy. It's a cactus talk or see and it's not going to get better at leat anytime soon. Tell me more about what you say. Cactus. Akasaka, can't pronounce any words. It's a Greek word, you know, and if he the prefix are caca, you know, people know that as shit, right? So, it's a shit autocracy. Essentially, is what runs, America? It's run by the, the
The shittiest, most corrupt, evil sticky-fingered, losers, ever assembled, in one place of governance in Washington, DC and the results are in there. It's plain to see it, look around. It looks terrible. It's even driving here from Fort Lauderdale. It's like going through, I said that I've been Marrakesh. Look better, you know, I've been in so-called third world countries that had better infrastructure. The airports in this country are go to Asia, you know, go somewhere else is Sierra.
That are very, very, very different. So anyway, the point is, this Bitcoin is a Relentless optimism. It's a vector out. It's the soundest money ever. And here you got a country that's going to make it legal tender. I've got skills. You know, I'm a former Banker. I'm a Bitcoin. ER, we've got a whole history in this space. Let's we're going to move their. We're going to we're going to be part of the new world. The new new world. Are you going to completely leave residents in the United States? I can terms of, are you going to move there and get rid of your house?
And I think North Carolina. No, wait, we keep our house and we would keep our US Passport as well. And
we will stay there for the rainy season. The right on. Rainy season.
I'm probably with you. And I don't like the cold or probably redness. I'm convinced. We can you talk about just Global adoption of Bitcoin, right? So the argument against El Salvador is a relatively small country, but can you just talk about other countries that can benefit from this outside of, obviously Zimbabwe with hyperinflation.
What other countries do you think will be next right thinking the region that definitely the words gone out and they're looking very closely at it. So Guatemala, which is next door Liz looking at it quite seriously, all the all the countries in the region. They're going to see this country's the benefits that will accrue pretty quickly and they're going to jump onto it and they all have access to cheap energy that volcano energy in particular geothermal energy. So that that region, I think in the next
12-18 months.
Also, you know, in terms of that region is like, yes, you've had a lot of interference and it's probably not very easy being a small country. So close to the United States, but, you know, the only other alternative that keeps on being offered as like very, very left-wing communist, sort of populist. So once they see like the standard of living and the, the situation for the ordinary person, you know, their situation
Get better in El Salvador. I think that could Inspire some more left-wing Progressive sort of side of the equation across the region. So I hope that happens because I don't think you know, going back and forth between you know, communism and then you know, a u.s. Back military coup sort of situation Junta. I think you know, this could be. This is Plan B, right? This is a way out of that, you know back and forth. There is no single yeah breaks that cycle.
Oil,
I feel like you two are the perfect people to talk about this next sensitive topic, which is in the Middle East. There's a lot of people who I think recognized a relationship with the world superpowers, that maybe wasn't so favorable to their country. And so there's many different attempts or strategies as to how to deal with that, right? Some of them thought that maybe going after the way that oil was priced would be one strategy. Other people thought the being hyper defiant was another strategy. Some people thought
The being super collaborative was a strategy. It usually is not turned out very well for many of those countries because there ends up being violence at the kind of End of the Road. How do you think about that with south or Central American countries with something like El Salvador, which I think if you ask most people in the world, they'd be like the country has six and a half million people like they couldn't, you know, they probably have a hard time fighting anybody let alone a superpower and they don't think of them as I can find lent type attacking
country. Yeah, but Bitcoin is like I said, it's the
the market for that is 7 billion. That's a total addressable Market of citizens and residents of Bitcoin. So look at the Middle East show and that's caused by previous Empires dividing up on along. All sorts of lines, you go to Beirut and it's like an amazing place. But, yeah, there's dividing lines and, and like this religion gets that many parliamentary seats and that religion gets that and like, it's just an absurdity that divides people by
These artificial barriers, whereas Bitcoin, unites everybody and ends that because it's, we're all part of the protocol, you know, know if you have one Satoshi, you have just as much power and say over the protocol as Michael sailor. So, like, it doesn't matter. You're on the protocol, There's No Bully. There's no Empire. There's no dictator. There's no anybody. There's just you on the
protocol. Yeah. I also salvadorians or 30% of
The dorian's live in the United States. There's a huge remittance market. So by adopting, a Bitcoin, standard are going to say 400 million dollars a year right off the get-go by going into Bitcoin mining projected to make a billion in revenues your one. How much can he transform this country in terms of like leapfrogging. Let's say the United States is near the top right? Whether it's the top or top 10 or whatever, from a country standpoint. It's based on a bunch of different metrics. And let's say, I'll Salvador is near the middle of the pack to the bottom, right?
On what metric you're looking at? Can he LeapFrog into the top 10 countries in the world? Well,
you can LeapFrog onto this new monetary standard, right? Because you have no money of your own. It's just the US dollar. That's so they have no control over it. Anyway, it's just like, with Africa that they leap frogged on to, you know, mobile technology because they didn't even and Bank, you know, banking infrastructure on their mobile phones. They were one of the first there with things like em pay, so because they didn't have a legacy banking system. So
not having a legacy system. Often does allow one to LeapFrog.
So is it really about leapfrogging or is it more about stepping away from a falling collapsing, building and surviving? So right now they've got a dollar and I'll Salvador's a dollar standard and the u.s. Dollar is in serious trouble as we just talked about. And the US economy is in serious trouble as we just talked about. So is it about leapfrogging or catching up to the US? Or is it about stepping aside and letting the US?
Collapse and not getting hurt badly by it. I think a lot of people the incentive at this point in Bitcoin circles is to escape the controlled demolition of the u.s. Empire, which is a huge going to be a huge event in the next 18 to 24 months.
But without having to jump on some sort of China bandwagon, so that's often like the Paradigm that is set up over the past few hundred years is like here's one superpower and it's being
Replaced by another superpower. And we've had what 18 through Lucidity straps over the past. Several hundred thousand years or something. Not hundred thousand but hundreds or thousands of years. And so, this is a plan B. It's a way out of that cycle, like break, it breaks all the Cycles. I think it was Michael sailor. That said it. What would it take for you guys to renounce? Your
citizenship. Like, would there be like a final straw? We just like, alright, like screw this route.
Nope. Nope. Well,
Got too much family here. But also, you know, once you're over a certain net worth. Anyway, it's almost impossible to renounce US citizenship. So maybe if you know, if you had let just like a couple hundred dollars. So you name it is possible to do, but it's kind of difficult. But, you know, I think, you know, America is a really rich country in terms of the resources that has including the people. So we have that federal system. We have that sort of states rights and we have
You know, we just lived in Europe for over 15 years and to come from Europe, which is like a museum to America, which is super Dynamic and the people are Dynamic and, you know, as Salvadorans by the way, like most a lot of Salvadorans are also American. So yeah, it's just like, I don't see myself not wanting to be here like, okay. A lot of people in the hole. Well, I would say crypto space rather than Bitcoin space moved to Puerto Rico. And you can move to Puerto Rico as an American because their America
You could go there and not pay taxes and do all that stuff, but I don't want to, you know, be restricted in terms of how much I can travel where I could travel staying in America. Keeping. You know, my family's here. We have friends here. Like I don't want to be restricted in terms of where I can and
can't go. Yeah, the point about stasis. Really good point because within the United States unlike in Europe and elsewhere, you do have states rights and autonomy. And so there are states in America that are becoming very big coin, friendly, Texas and Wyoming and Florida, right? So you guys
Guys have kind of come to Florida in large part because it's becoming very friendly to bitcoin. So, this is kind of a variation on this theme, you know, now we're looking at different country, but the same thought process, like want to be where, it's Bitcoin friendly, where I'm getting some respect because I'm a bit coiner, so it could be that Texas. For example, which is already got Ted Cruz and some other people are Wyoming with Cynthia, lummis, you know, they actually decide that they're going to take a firmer position against the federal government and they're going to be a
Farmer to bitcoiners and the rocking to thwart Innovation, right? Going to tax them extraordinarily.
I mean, a great thing to look at is what happened with marijuana laws. Like, I don't smoke marijuana, but I do smell it. Everywhere you go in America and it's just extraordinary, right? I mean, it's still against the law, a federally. And yet you could smoke it and buy it and sell it all over the United States and various States because they just said, you know, to the federal government, that's extraordinary.
First of all, the word.
Marijuana, we've been told means you're a cop. You have. So really, that's what we've been told so you cop, but, but second of all is I think there's two different components. That's right. As we've seen places, like let's say, Colorado, I think is the quintessential example where they went, they change the state law. So there was a legislative process of rashes, and they did because they got tax revenue and all the benefits they got. There's also places like Baltimore where there was a district attorney who said I have no legislative power whatsoever, but I'm just not gonna prosecute these people anymore. They decriminalized
Yeah, and so I think that
it's harder to decriminalize without the legislative powers, right? For something like this, but I do think that it would be absolutely fascinating. If all of a sudden you had to State step up and say, you know, what, we're going to do, we're going to basically say there's absolutely zero income tax for their zero, whatever tax may be the closest we've seen is Kentucky, I think change some of the taxation laws for people around electricity. So if you use Kentucky power to mine Bitcoin, they change your tax status or tax treatment.
Again, that's more for a corporate entity. And it was just at the state level. I don't know really how it works with the relationship with the federal level and time. He's okay, Florida. Got the state or local tax same thing with taxes, right? So the states have a lot of power and the story Rico, Puerto. Rico is a very interesting situation, tax-wise and it's still part of the u.s. U.s. Territory Etc. So, the states have a lot of leeway and I think that as Bitcoin as other countries, particularly start to show what you can do, when you have a Bitcoin standard, a lot in the States, you might have Governors and Mayors and
Politicians decide that, you know, we need to get in on this ourselves and they can be very active and proactive in pursuing that and I think that's part of the game theory built into the Genesis block, you know, it's been with us since the very very beginning. There's that game theory that's built into Bitcoin protocol that encourages this type of mutually beneficial outcome for all in a decentralized way and that it's the net-net is that we are pushing.
Pushing out the weak Fiat, money and even gold, you know, gold being demonetized. I think the numbers are in on that so because you've got the apex predator, you've got Bitcoin, then your mind. What is the end goal for Bitcoin? Is it to become the global Reserve currency of? Where do you see it? Ending up in 10 years? 20 years, 30 years, right Bitcoin becomes essentially the global Reserve currency because it just pushes everything else out. There's nothing that can compete with it and people want to use it as much.
And as a store of value and that's what dictates ultimately the
market. It'll be a unit of account. Everybody. Will thank him, Bitcoin. What does this cost me in Bitcoin, which is this car cost me in Bitcoin, which is this how much Bitcoin am ironing and this job. Even if they have a local currency, that's different. That's true. What are the obstacles to
get there?
The obstacles to get toward hyper Bitcoin ization on a global basis. Are the entrenched oligopoly that is not keen on giving up their position. And the thing about Bitcoin is that it's a peaceful Revolution. It's not a violent revolution. Unlike any other revolution in the past. It's been a violent revolution with Bitcoin is. All you need to do is adopt and use Bitcoin to be part of the Revolution and as the use euros.
As price goes up, everything that we know about it and it squeezes out the weekends, it squeezes out the weaker, economies the weaker Minds, The weaker, and it acts like a mirror. And it exposes people like Paul Krugman or somebody like that is a public intellectual others. The other economists who are like Nassim taleb was an amazing case of someone who had an incredible reputation and within three or four months, it became completely trashed. Because the Bitcoin mirror showed us that this
This guy was intellectually dishonest at some level and it got crushed by it. And so this is this is this happens across the Spectrum with other economists. Other intellectuals, other monetary theories, like Stacey was saying, it's an excellent point. Typically in the Central America. It's a choice between military dictatorship and socialism. And either side of that coin is doesn't work. You know, this is the third option. This is the third way. This is the vector out. This is the Bitcoin way and it gets the demonetised has both.
That it gets rid about, it's a preferential way. It's going to and it controlled entirely by the individuals who have that on confiscated full. Well that that private key that can't be taken away from them and that encourages a behavior in the community. You know, I say you don't change Bitcoin Bitcoin changes you and you see that in El Salvador, where the president is thinking big. He's thinking in new ways. He's thinking let's bring all these people here. He's getting the benefit of that of that Bitcoin philosophy, that Bitcoin thinking.
That that comes with it Beyond just the fact that it's number go up.
You see you see Bitcoin changing him. You see Bitcoin change, Michael sailor. You see Bitcoin change us, you see Bitcoin change everybody. So everybody is on their own Journey. Only You Can Do you, you know, you can approach the rabbit hole in any way that is unique to you. But we all end up at the same place, which is hyper Bitcoin ization. Yeah, I think that's what
for me. The key to bitcoin maximalist Asian or
Maximalist, is that the recognition that there is this one point on the horizon that everyone's kind of going toward and to deny that is just wasting everyone's time, just understand that. We're all kind of heading into that. One, Global hyper book on ization. Bitcoin standard point on the horizon. We're on this pilgrimage together toward this, this, this outcome, and that's Bitcoin maximization. And for those who argue against it, i-i'm there that everyone's happy.
To argue against it. But there no one's made a compelling case. That the what I just said is not true. They make very pedantic cases. They make very circular logical, kind of runarounds and trolling cases that go nowhere and we've all seen
them the Fiat world. I think has like a social credit score mentality. So you're kind of brought up to be very suburban and be very polite and very nice to somebody just because they smile at you. And for me personally and I can only speak for
Itself like that sort of toxic maximalism, just saves me from having to be nice to somebody just because I've known them for 10 years and now they have a shit coin that they, you know, and I just helps to like, okay. I just don't how do I get over the fact that I just want to be polite and say, oh, hey, that's cool. Glad for you. You know, it's just like it's a wait it's a self-defense mechanism. Maybe you know, some people are different, they
They could easily like not be polite and still not be toxic. You know what I mean? But I can't
let me ask two questions. So one of the things that happens in the Fiat world is that you have dollars, dollars are the reserve currency from a medium of Exchange store value. It's also the unit of account that people use and the game if you will, in the Fiat world is to earn dollars or get a choir dollar somehow to then take them invest them.
Grow in dollar terms and then go back into dollars, right? So it's just the acquisition of more and more and more dollars. Yeah, when you think of Bitcoin, is there a world where you would say? Okay, we want to acquire Bitcoin, whether we're buying it. We're earning it. However, we acquire it, you then invest the Bitcoin into other things, whether it's equities, or real estate or whatever, with the hope of acquiring more Bitcoin and going back into Bitcoin, or the taka says that there is no any compounding at an incredible rate.
A four-year over like over a hundred and fifty percent, correct? And so any time you step off Bitcoin, your risk profile goes up and it goes up dramatically. And if you're in any way, not even able to handle managing risk, which is the case for a 99.9% of the population out. There are very bad at handling risk, because if it gets very emotional, this idea of I'm going to step out, make some money and then step back in it almost in all cases.
Don't work because you're going to step out you're going to lose and then you're going to be in a situation. Where now, what do I do? And most people like this is the, this is called the gambling industry, right? This is Las Vegas. If you go into the floor on a Las Vegas casino, and you asked 100 people, how are they doing? And they'll say I'm winning and you know, that's false. They're all losing. Yep. And that's, that's, that's the problem is that the risk reward on bitcoin is so incredibly good that to step off that Bitcoin into anything else.
Is you're bringing on and a lot of risk that you don't need to, because you're already a compounding at this incredible rate per year. So why even take on any risk in that? When that way? Yes, it's like a hundred seventy percent. I think right now, compound annual growth rate of right. So why would you step off that? You know, so let's say that Bitcoin continues on this path of hyper bit quantization, which every deed, you know, every kind of underlying fundamental, every single data point. We have seems like, that's the general reaction. How long it takes up for debate, but that's where we're going. Kind of your point. There's this like North
Or that is the the culmination point when we get there. The idea would be that Bitcoin is quote, unquote stable, right? One Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin. And so therefore everything is priced in Bitcoin etcetera. Does your opinion change once we get to that point? So right now you're getting kind of the monetization of Bitcoin, very opposite of the demonization of gold. And so you're getting this priced into the world or was trying to figure out how much is a decentralized kind of transparent Central Bank with a programmatic monetary policy. That's
Literally protected by millions of people around the world. What's that worth right now? The world thinks it's worth a trillion dollars think that everyone in this room thinks it's worth way more than that in the future, but we'll see how that happens. Do we reach a point where their stability and then you have to go back to the thinking of investing Bitcoin to earn more Bitcoin now, okay, because the end game on bitcoin is something very, very interesting, very remarkable. And if you notice pomp, you know, you and I've been in this for a while, that there is a hole.
Cool now Bitcoin philosophy and Bitcoin kind of, you know, deep thinking that that people like Robert Breedlove and others get into it, Michael sailor touches on it. I think that we're heading here is where we start to really have a different thought about what is wealth. And what is my purpose here on planet Earth and where the idea of that pursuit of
Of wealth. And that constant calculation of people are making. This is risk. This is not risk. I get a little bit here, get a little bit there. I got my portfolio, got my multiple income streams. I got this going on. I think that that there's a fundamental shift because you're monetizing people's better nature. And and you're coming out of a period, many many thousand year period. Where we're monetizing people's worst aspects? People's greed has been transformed by Bit Coin into altruism into something. That's mutually.
Special for everyone. And when you have that happen in society that people are going to step out and just so, you know what, I just want to stay here. Play my flute raised garden of zucchinis. And you know, I'm not a crime. Just want to be me. I just want to be cosmically as one with who I am as a human being and I want to look at the stars and I just I don't you just leave me alone. I think that that's the outcome went toward a high per Bitcoin ization of that. When you have that moment of almost as
As a species without getting too off the range here, but almost as a species. It's almost like a revolutionary step change where we finally put down the childish toy of our egos and our need to get more and more and more. And and we join We join our into a more of a communal high, if
that's the time preference, the shift in time preference. That's that's that's what the rabbit hole.
All about. So the skills that people have that are thinking, you know, I have skills in hustling. I have skills as an entrepreneur. There's a Bitcoin thread of thought that says that no matter what I do Bitcoins going to keep going up. Anyway, who am I ever going to be able to use my skills? And the answer is no you won't. You get. We're all going to go to a place where people are essentially going to be in a different completely different place. Obviously, there's no way to the only way we can know this is going to happen is actually live through and see if it's going to happen. And
What's the timing on this? And it all depends on how fast the dollar collapses. I think that's the linchpin to the whole the whole puzzle, you know, you need the dollar to really collapse to move us Beyond everything. He was so Co 2 dollar in the post-world war, two, Global hegemony, and the model of hyper-consumption, you know, 70% of the US economy is consumption and yet also you have incredibly High rates of Prozac and Xanax and oxycontin and
Ass and disorder and dysfunction, right? It's not happy Society. People generally are
miserable. I think it's going to bring out the best in us though. And I think I don't know if you Kelly said it further. He said it from about us like if we were the ones that said it first and then so it's hard to remember where it all began. But the best Minds in the world are being attracted to bitcoin and I think you're going to have I think we're in the middle of the early days of a Renaissance 2.0 and you know, just look at history to see what happened with Rena.
Essence 1.0. And, you know, Medici wasn't exactly a high time. Preference sort of guy. Like, why, how did we have in one little city state? How did we have to Vinci Michelangelo? Botticelli? How do we have all those people in one spot? Like, why was Medici financing them? Was he like hoping to flip it to the next gold dealer, you know know he was thinking
We're talking about Medici today because he financed those guys because he he helped pay for that. Like if he had just been some rich dude in history. Like are we going to talk about Elon Musk and 100 500 years. It depends on what he decides to do with his wealth.
Right? Don't think about that. Your question in terms of a relationship. You know, you're married. You just are getting married. Yep. I'm single.
You man, right? So in a marriage, you realize that, you know, you don't compete with each other. Essentially you are one, you know, and you are there's everything that goes on in her marriage and that's kind of, like globally. We, all of all Society could be having that experience where we're all centrally expressing a love on. A more of a love protocol then, then one right now, which is based sir.
Only our economy is fifty cents, of every dollar goes to the Pentagon. It's a war based economy, the Fiat money as Paul Krugman, at the New York Times, said is backed by men with guns. That's what backs the u.s. Dollar is violence. And that's true of all Fiat money and has been for hundreds of years. So love itself is not monetized. Love is not an it's not as as a premium in our lives in that way. Imagine if its flipped, if hatred and war and violence are demonetized and they get pushed down down to the bottom of the
Speed rack and law of faith. And and, and, and understanding and peace are moved up. You're going to have a completely different Society. So that's my answer to your question is that the question is not do we at that time? I was there going to be a period where we're out there trying to aggregate more Bitcoin because we've achieved parity. I think the answer is no, because we're going to be very, very different as a species and as people general questions, you have, can you both talk about your thoughts around? Just the you
This government holding Bitcoin, all the
regulations that's going on currently and like does that stifle Innovation, does knock. You just give me your thoughts around all
that. Yes, Carmen stupidly sold their Bitcoin, right? They
had Ross Ross, all
bricks Bitcoin. They sold it. They saw that it's over Tim Draper, you know, over and Silicon Valley, right? They've been sellers a Bitcoin stupidly. They they're stupid. The Chinese government is stupid for kicking out the miners and they don't, they don't, you know, Bitcoin avoids narcissistic.
And then you ask China countries that have mental problems. It doesn't go. Well, so, it will the u.s. Change. I think what we've said is that you've got the states, have the ability to reformulate, a course of action and take on the federal government. So, that's where it's going to come from, Texas, Wyoming. Florida are leading. So maybe the Texas teachers pension fund or something like that or the Texas General municipality, pension fund says, we're going.
To put a Bitcoin position that starts a ripple effect for all over from state to state. It could see that happening. But at the federal level, I don't see it happening because for the reasons, you know that I just said the other piece of this is we recently had what Gibbs coming from a compass Mining and he I don't know if he meant to say it or slipped and said that the United States government was mining Bitcoin in the middle of the country.
Let's say that there's a 50/50 probability whether that's happening or not.
What is the us as play? If you were the president of the United States? And you said, okay, here's situation on facing currently, we've talked about that. And then here's this new technology.
Do you shut down the Federal Reserve and go buy a bunch of Bitcoin. Do you start mining? Do you just make the rules a little bit more relaxed? So that you can incentivize entrepreneurs and innovators. Like how do
you think about like, what should they do? We
make Michael Sylar, the FED chairman or the treasury secretary why and say take the game book that the The Playbook user using over microstrategy and apply to the federal government, please and do it fast. So that
Don't get disintermediated out of the 21st century. Because at this rate, we're going to be blown out of the water by these smaller more Nimble, more agile. Smarter Bitcoin countries.
I think I think they don't care about I think, you know, there in the mindset of we have the US treasuries and the US dollar and we're dominant then, but I it makes sense geopolitically that they would be mining Bitcoin, just as probably all many nations are mining Bitcoin in order to move.
Secretly around the internet and around the globe because it's you know, untraceable money and you don't need a 747 to move your gold around and you can just you know, Finance projects dark, you know, Black Ops, you know with a Bitcoin. So I think that's probably if they're mining Bitcoin, that's probably what they're doing not necessarily to stockpile like any store
Value Plus you have to. If somebody saw me all the federal government's mining Bitcoin in the middle of America somewhere. I'd have to ask well is it?
Same federal government that is operating outside of the democratic process that gave us all kinds of political problems in the last 5, 10, 20 years. I mean if they are mining it as are we going to be sharing in that Bounty. Are they going to steal? No, I mean they can be using our resources to go mine Bitcoin, and then they could go leave the country. Right? So, I mean these guys are, like I said, they're the corruption is. It's on a scale that's off the charts, so I wouldn't trust him for one second. I do know for
for a fact because a person who worked at the organization told me that in, let's call it 2012/2013. One of the federal law enforcement agencies. They wanted to conduct cryptocurrency related investigations. And as part of that, they wanted to do some undercover type work. They either did not believe they could get approved or went for the approval, got denied for a budget.
To purchase Bitcoin. So instead they said, well, they always give us approval for computers. And so they went ahead and they put in a budget approval for mining equipment and then it up, mining Bitcoin. Now one, they're able to actually get their hands on bitcoin to is Virgin Bitcoin. So you couldn't trace it etcetera. And then that was used for investigations. Now, I don't want to exaggerate in terms of my guess is that? That was a very small amount. Right? And I don't think that people would count that as like the government is holding.
Holding Bitcoin, right? I think when we talk about that we're talking about it in terms of its on, you know, treasury Federal Reserve. This is part of our kind of national strategy outside of just that of putting Michael sailor or somebody like that to almost pull off a speculative attack. What else would you do? They see is minors in, Texas.
You might seize the miners. Hell, yeah, that's probably what they're thinking about. That's the easiest way for the US government's get into Bitcoin businesses that go down to those huge operations that are in Texas now and season like they stole, they took the gold and in the 30s, right? They seized everyone's gold federal government could seize all those miners in Texas that could trigger a serious conflict with the state of Texas. So I was just going to ask him if they were to go to because that's a pretty bold. Well that's happened. Government under eminent domain, you know, under our under the
Opposite of National Security. Can do anything they want to do? Maybe take your shoes off at the airport. Yeah, it's getting worse and worse and people. And the people's rights are being more and more abuse. So they would go down that, that would be from, in my view. That would be the easiest way for the federal government to get in the game, pretty fast.
That's what I mean. Like, our guests are frequent guests that we've had on Keiser report, Jim Rickards, who works with the CIA wargaming Financial war and he always said to us on Keiser report that the u.s.
Ferment would seize all of the gold held on behalf of other nations. So we hold a lot of gold of our own the United States gold, but we also own goal. We hold gold for other nations Afghanistan, right? Well, yeah, but Nations like Germany correctly understand why they just allies that we would cease their
goal yesterday negged on the on the Afghani goal. Yeah. Yeah. The Afghans basically whatever whoever you want to say is in power now, right? Hang on. If it's the official or unofficial basically said
Give us our money back and they said when I give it a job because we don't know who's in
charge. Yeah, so that's what they would do. That's the similar mindset would happen with whatever you know. Bitcoin miner. Is that make sense? Like we've already seen with China? What they, what they're thinking, how they're operating and I think it's a, you know, this thucydides trap. This relationship between the US and China, the Creditor and debtor Nation. Going forward is what to look at for what we might do. Yeah, it is.
It's fascinating to think about for them to get into the game in any material way. Both of you immediately jump to them, doing something that most people would argue. It was a violation of some kind of, right? And there's ways that they could position it, there's ways that they could talk about it. You know, I go all the way back to enhanced interrogation techniques, right? As as kind of an example, outside the United States, then obviously, we have things like TSA excetera inside the United States.
If we start to
push
Further into this stuff. We just saw today, New York City. They now are going to have a couple of different things. I do not want to for the enjoyment of everyone at home. Talk about the specific, Public Health crisis and the validity of it or else we will find ourselves not on YouTube anymore. But which by the by its own,
right, is ways. We always tell our guests. They can't say the c word. Yes, no seems deeply
platforms, which by the way, is absurd. We have to talk exactly. But in New York,
Do you now if you are between the ages of five years old and 11, gotta get the, get the jab to go into a restaurant. And also, if you are a private business, the city is now making it a legal requirement for you to mandate your private employees. To go ahead and do it as well. Does that all play into this? Right? And I'm using that them as one specific example, just because in the news today, but how do you think about some of the encroachments in other areas that have nothing to do with?
Money or Finance or Bitcoin? But Reza has a lot to do with money. And okay, printing explaining earlier. Is that because they're not going to stop printing money. They need to lock everyone down to stop them from rising up and with the pitchforks and going after the entrenched oligarchs, right? So they got a lock him up. It's a prison. It's an open prison that mean it works in. Saudi Arabia. It works in Gaza. They weren't saying other countries around the world. They have open prisons that they run and you can't leave.
Are we, you know, we're we have open prisons in America right now. It's called the reservation system. If you ever been in North Dakota and The Dakotas and up in those areas, you've got all the native population are on. There are living an open air prisons, right? So now we have that model being adopted across the
board. I think it's a failure of consensus. I think you see the elite have given. They can't persuade the population and I think you see that I think especially since
Sixteen, since Trump was elected. I think you see something's going on with the elite. They've literally lost their mind. And they have a real contempt for the majority of the population. The deplorable, 's, who didn't go to university, who live in the middle of America, who aren't working in the creative Industries and Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York. I think there's there's a they're projecting a lot and I think they fear the people and I think a lot of this locked
Mentality and you see on Twitter, just go on the blue check Twitter. Sorry, not you but but the fact that, you know, there's so many, there's so many like demanding like let them die. Let don't treat anybody, who hasn't been vaccinated. Don't treat them of and it's like, that's a real sick mind that they have that. There's something going on.
Yes, I Calle Baldwin. He said, on TV that he cocked the gun. He pointed it. He released the hammer, the bullet left, a gun and killed a woman.
In. But he has no idea how he she died. That's that's that's that's the only one he said is that it's a sickness and then he deleted his Twitter account and everything else shit. But that's that's Jamie dimon. He's like we printed trillions and trillions of dollars. Now people are dying from the inflation. How did that happen? Yeah, you really muddy. Even even worse, even worse than that. This is we had a field day.
One day, where a reporter which by the way, you get kudos. I don't know who the reporter was but in a very one-off case, somebody has to hard question and said, you know, how do you think about wealth inequality, based on all the money Printing and I you couldn't make this up if you try. But he literally said something like, well, no one's come into my office and told me that they that there's a that they're suffering from wealth inequality. And we so we pulled it up, we explained where his offices and how do you even get to the office? Right likes? Okay, so you're only gonna believe
If it is, somebody tells you it, right, but you as the person who's responsible for this stuff. And so again, even if you say, all right, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt as a slip of the tongue. Like, you didn't mean it specifically like that, which questionable I do wonder, how much of this is intentional versus like we give folks in positions of power and influence, too much credit. Like, they actually don't know this, right? All the people were saying, inflation was not going to happen. How many of them actually believe that? I think it's a higher percentage that we probably think really did not believe inflation was going to go
higher. I think they're there.
Flailing. I think they, you know, a lot of the individuals are probably trying to do something to Stave off bad things. But I think all the data, if you just look at the data, if you look at their data from the Fiat world, if you look at the depths of Despair, I think that's one of the number one indicators that there's been an utter and complete collapse in the institutions. Governing, this Fiat world. You saw the same. The last time you saw this in peacetime was and the Soviet Union collapsed.
And okay, communism is shit. But the fact is that their state collapsed and you saw the result in the mass deaths of Despair, a lot of alcohol overdose deaths. Now, we have the same thing. We have a declining life expectancy that's never happened in peacetime. So how did that happen? What are the what's what's causing those Dessa Despair? And I think it's also the collapse of the governance model of our Fiat
world. My my one
thing
Year during the lockdown to New York City. And, you know, I'm assuming that hopefully you two are similar to a plan and I in that sometimes I put tweets into the machine and I'm ready to hit tweet and I got like a slap on the hands like hey you want to eat that but I got up past the approval process. What is you're telling me that we have entrepreneurs and small?
Enos owners who literally make up 50% of jobs in America, they can't run their business, but you can go buy alcohol and get hammered. Right? And you start to his arguments around like there's a taxation component to it right versus there's a literally a public health component of. Like if alcoholics aren't allowed to go get alcohol than there. Could be even worse. Probably, whatever. The reason is, you start to think about like, okay, that's weird. Then you look at, like, wait a minute. You're telling me it's easier for me to go, literally gamble on the lottery than it is for me to invest in a private business, right? For some people in America, like, okay, that's
We're and you just go down the line and you don't know how much of it is like just outright hypocrisies versus like somebody was optimizing for a good intention and just came up with a really stupid rule. Right. And I think that what we saw with
with the Public Health crisis was that like it exposed all this stuff, right? And you just saw it like it's
such black and white terms of
like even to the point where the CDC changed definitions of words on their website and you're just like, is totality.
Bananas, is anybody talking about this? Like it's a classic read, you know, orwellian gets overused, but look at Orwell and what? He described what he saw in the 20s 30s. And leading up to World War Two is the totalitarianism and that changing history rewriting history changing. Meaning of words. How many of your friends in New York City? All you're very wealthy friends, their kids went to school the whole time. Right? None of the private schools ever shut down this whole time, all the poor kids. None of them have been going to
40 years, algebra is illegal in California. Exactly change. Why did they change that definition? Because they knew what their consequences of their actions. Are. They knew what they're doing. They know what they're setting up. So they're setting up a situation whereby. They don't want to. They don't want a French Revolution and American Revolution on their hands. So they're going to change. The words was like, okay. Yeah, you have no Talent at all anymore or note because we you stayed home sitting at home for the last two years, you know.
No, I think it's a I think as part I think they understand the consequences of their bad decisions. And I think they're trying to find a like all the sjw stuff is a way for them to try to you know, kill me last sort of thing of a revolution.
Last thing I want to talk about is let's say that all of the conspiracy theorist, right? Whichever the really, really severe ones all the way to the ones who are just kind of a watered-down version who appeared to not only be considered.
Beer see theorist is one label, but actually they were just early right? To a lot of this stuff is another label. If they're right about majority of this. Do we see States like, Texas and Florida?
Leaf, like do we get to the point where it's literally because it feels like right now, right? If I had to put an over-generalized kind of mechanism or analysis, New York City, San Francisco, and even LA, to some point, there was a couple of people who left in the beginning of, you know, kind of cute to of 2020. Then by Q3. There's a little more Q4 more. It broke wide open in January of this year and in I can speak for my Emmy specifically. There was a big question is over the summer.
People going to leave this hot in all these things. Not only did people not leave. Maybe they left for a week or two, a vacation with the came back. But now there's even larger influx. And, you know, the joke is that like the technology industry invaded, Art Basel, right? And so,
like, if we continue to see the flows, where
literally California, New York lost. I think it's congressional seats legislative seats, right? Because they lost so much in population. Yeah, do
we get like a state's level
may be a conflict, but just like,
Agreement to the point where they say, look like, we don't want to play by your rules anymore
and woke refugees. The problem is that our political leaders are really, really, really old. Like they're the national level Federal level there. Like, some of these people have been in power for 50 years and all they've known is from the very early days of, you know, when the US dollar started in 1971, they've been in on that and they don't know where we are now and I think maybe on the state
Levels is where you're going to see, you have younger leaders on a state level and like Dynamic Mayors and stuff like that. I think where it's the only natural response to, you know, and the entropy at the top on a very Federal
level. One other piece that I'm interested in is as people move from California, USA to Miami, or Austin, or whatever. Do the politics follow, right? This is whole idea of like the woke Revolution. That the one thing I like about Miami is
Is, I don't know what percentage of the population is from south or Central America. But like they've seen all this before,
right? And the first people to basic,
no. No, you're not gonna do that to me again. Yeah. Right are people who come from South Central America? Who have seen the dictator Playbook the Socialist? Playbook Etc. Yeah, and it feels like there's a different culture to some degree of like the acceptance, whereas in New York City. I mean, they literally could probably tell you, you have to go outside every day at 4:00 in like, you know, bow down to the mayor and 50% of the population. Probably.
Like legitimately they would be like, oh, okay, and that book that will save me. Like, where do I stand?
One thing I want to say is that the AC the air conditioning, a Miami is turned up way higher than in Austin. You cold right now? Yes. Freezing cold in Miami.
We have a blanket somewhere because my brother's usually wear it. Yeah, throw it to her. Great. There you go. All right, Max. You got anything
else. You want people to know before?
Before we wrap
up. Yeah on my way here, you know, we stop if you do, he's gonna hold, ya know time is it we stopped at a gas station and you know is incredible because you know, as I was saying things have dilapidated a lot and I went to use the restroom and
You know, they're in the restroom. Shockingly is what you call one of these glory holes. There's a
hole in the wall that's going on,
you know, and you know, you do testimony you interact with it and on the other side was Peter Schiff.
And I couldn't believe it. It's come to this. When did you tell Peter shipped about Bitcoin? They're still there. There is controversy about that's not controversy about it. He himself went on Fox Business News and said, max told me about Bitcoin of $10. Okay, so he said it so he changed his mind. Well, he he he is a guy who's very
Unfamiliar with the truth. That's not his primary currency of Jesus or any gold do I. I've used as collateral to borrow money to buy more Bitcoin. Yeah, but he's not, the only thing you still own gold.
What had I just I keep it for entertainment value. I think it makes, you know, it it puts me in a pleb position. People can make fun of me. And I like to have ways for when you
talk about just what else you guys have your portfolio's? Just it's just
It's becoming all Bitcoins.
That's just all Bitcoin and our and our love. I mean, I don't
know but what some of the miners miners are interesting as
micro chaterjee microstrategy, he's going to do so like why is he stockpiling? Why is Michael strategy? Why all this Bitcoin, right? They're going to have to use it in a for the Renaissance 2.0 as want to be Christian collateral. I think he's going to do interesting things because I don't think he's just going to let it sit there.
The volcano bonds and I'll Salvadoran six and a half percent.
Bon. It's got a five year La Casa on the I'm definitely going to be
will buy some just for, you know, I'll be first like it's, you know, just to be first there, but that's great. That's a
great six, a percent. So you're beating inflation and you got a five-year lock up on the half the proceeds going to bitcoin. So you got an upside on the Bitcoin, the other half goes into infrastructure, including building out the mining facilities and of the volcanoes Etc. These 100 Grand to get the citizenship.
Citizenship I'd last I saw a hundred grand but their pricing, you can you can get involved for as little as $100, you know, the pop. I think that this country, I believe last I checked, I've got approximately 20 billion in debt. I think that they can be debt free in the next 10 years. By selling these volcano bonds, you yourself, I saw on Twitter believe that these will be oversubscribed and I agree with you on that. I mean, this is a fantastic piece of paper. And so they could sell 10, 20 billion in a world with a quadrillion dollars in derivatives out there.
And people desperate for yield open, most people saw the microstrategy bonds at think they are performed every other Bond on Wall Street, really going to see that on The Sovereign level. This ends up. So they're gonna raise a lot of billions of dollars. I'm going to retire all that debt. They're going to get rid of the IMF. They're going to be, they're going to write their own ticket with outside of the influence of Fiat money. IMF US dollar and it's a great country with great people, great resources. And so this is a, this is going to catch like fire all over the region and the
best Minds in the world.
Smiles. Are you guys going to go to bitcoin City specifically or somewhere else? No, it's not there yet. So, when they build and they build Sante Nails on Facebook, of course,
it's going to be closer to the eastern coast of the
max and I are going to set up our own pupusas
stand. That's right. Will be selling pupusas and and living the life baby. You know, I may come and I'll bring my brothers and we'll do a little surfing. But the only problem is that Joe's not very athletic.
I'm really we gave you a congratulations at the beginning of the show. We can't let you have all the fun. You're just trying to make up for the joke. I met before we went on air. What was that was a go sports? I asked you about. He said he said, the st. Louis Rams are going to win this.
But I will say, I will say that we were some people st. Louis one time and the room guy kind of like quiet and then all of a sudden John out of nowhere just hits them with a so you guys mad that the Rams moved his good question. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you guys so much for tuning in Mac. Stacy. Thank you guys for coming here. I know that you got a bunch of different stuff. You could be doing with your time. Joe, Jon. You guys got any, any other questions? Yeah. Thanks for coming on guys. No comment for
She's gonna tell Max we tell everyone to do. Pay off your credit card as well. I should like the video make sure you subscribe to the channel. See you guys tomorrow. Bye.
