What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompeo. Know most of you know me as pump. You're listening to the pump podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Alex Feinberg is an entrepreneur and a metabolic hacker in this conversation. We talked about your metabolic Health, the financial incentives of the fitness and food industry, while you're probably eating the wrong food, the wrong ingredients, how that's making you fat and unhealthy, Alex? And I had a great conversation, I learned a ton and I now have a brand-new routine on what to do in the gym.
I'm eating food and also before I go to sleep, and when I wake up in the morning, I hope you guys enjoy this one. After you listen to the episode, get on Twitter and let us know what you liked, what you didn't, like what you agree with and what you disagree with, we enjoy the feedback. All right, let's get in that episode with Alex. Hope that you enjoy it. Anthony promptly on, oh, Ron's pomp Investments, all views of him and the guests on his podcast, our sholay, their opinions, and do not reflect the opinions of pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by pomp or his guests as a specific inducement, to make a particular,
Investment or follow a particular strategy. But only as an expression of his personal opinion, this podcast is for informational purposes. Only. All right, guys, bang, bang. I've got Alex here with me. I thought a great place to start would be. You post all kinds of ridiculous, photos on the internet of food that you're eating. I'm like this, dude's eating pizza fried chicken burgers, tacos, like everything that everyone wants to eat but you're in great shape. And so as I've paid attention like women, he knows something that the rest of us, don't know. Now you're here, what is going on? Why are
Eating all this stuff, but still able to stay in shape. Well, I think the first thing that people should know is
I never expected to be 4%, body fat, I never approached eating or training in a way where I thought I have to have abs. First and foremost, I decided in my early Twenties that I was going to eat delicious food every meal of every day, no matter what I think that's my right, as a reasonably successful individual to eat delicious food, every meal of the day, what I found when I was working at Google in my late 20s, is that
That there are a lot easier ways to achieve Fitness results, then what mainstream Fitness tells you, okay? Namely how you approach training and how you approach eating allows you to eat in a way that doesn't
require you to count calories, doesn't
require you to avoid these forbidden Foods doesn't require you to live in the gym and just so happens to result in muscle gain and fat loss. Which is what everybody's going for, what I realized was that everybody
He has
it wrong from first principle
standpoint. Most people in the fitness industry.
Think that calories in calories out is their God as long as you're burning more calories, then you're consuming you will lose fat and I found through experience and through working with many individuals, that the human metabolism is a little bit more complicated than that. Our endocrine system is more complicated than that. And, you know, over years, I've found that as long as I'm eating protein dominant, real food with
Real clean ingredients. I don't have to count calories to go hungry. I can eat literally Pizza 10 times per month, as many times as I want. Burgers tacos, Fried Chicken, as long as I'm eating when I'm hungry, I'm not eating around mealtimes, I'm eating when my body tells me, hey, Alex, I need food, put it in me.
So what does this look like in a given dead? What's an average day of what you eat and when you eat it, is there like a schedule to it or not? Really, there is
no fixed schedule to it, my body.
Will tell me to eat it pretty predictable times, right? So all wake up, I'm typically not that hungry early in the morning because I eat late at night. I do what you're not supposed to do, which is E before bedtime because that's when my body tells me I'm hungry, so calmly, I won't have breakfast until maybe 11. I'll have maybe three eggs, three piece of bacon some you know organic bread and then lunch a couple hours later on average could be four hours. Could be two hours depending on how my resting metabolic rate is that day.
I'll probably eat tacos, you know, 10 ounce Ribeye from Trader, Joe's steak tacos. You know, that's going to have another 60 70 grams of protein in it and then very commonly for dinner. You know, I'll need another pizza and the difference between my pizza and the pizzas that you get from like a Domino's or a Pizza Hut. Is my pizzas have about as much protein as they have carbs. Whereas if you get your pizzas or you get this quote-unquote junk food from traditional fast food, restaurants, the margins are in the cards.
Right? The margins are not in the meat. And so if you just rely on third parties to create your menu for you, you're going to end up having a carb dominant diet, you're going to end up overeating because cards tend to make you hungrier and your you know your natural appetites going to become dysregulated to where you think you need to count calories in order to eat the right amount. I discovered how to do that. I actually leaned on the intuition skills that I built. As a professional baseball player to say, I need to trust my body, right? I'm sure you went through this too.
Playing sports.
You have to trust yourself. If you can't trust yourself, you can't succeed. And so I approached Fitness and
dieting and training in a way where I prioritize listening to the signals that my body tells me. Because I started out with the hypothesis that there, right?
When you think of pizza start, go backwards. Other Pizza has just as much protein as it does carbs. What does that look like? When do you make the pizza? Do you buy it from somewhere? And how do you think about making sure it has enough protein?
Yeah, I make it.
Of times. I'll use other people's Frozen basis just because you can get those very easily. There's a brand I really like named after me. But not after me. Alex is awesome sourdough Trader. Joe's has good. Pizza base, has two main thing that I try to do is I try to put as much meat on as possible. So you're never going to be able to buy a pizza. That's already constructed with 80 to 100 grams of protein, but you can buy chicken breast, you can buy sausage. You can buy pepperoni, and, you know, if you put to 8 to 16,
Oz on there. It's going to taste good and it's going to have a lot of protein, so you're probably an end up eating less of it than if you just got, you know,
delivery from Papa John's or just watching football. So the pizza dough that you're buying, is there anything special about it or it does it not have things or have certain things you're looking for? Why that specific brand? I like
organic Pizza. You know, a lot of American carbs are made with glyphosate and we know glyphosate produced by our friends at Monsanto is
Is a carcinogen. And so a lot of people when they, when they come to the u.s. they end up having gut issues and I think a lot of it has to do with the pesticides, then we spray on our crops. And so I try very hard to avoid carbs with glyphosate or really any food with glyphosate. So I get organic bread as much
as I can. What does that mean? Organic bread? Like, I think people know organic but they don't think of bread being organic, or not organic. So like it just means it doesn't have this kleiss
glyphosate in it of among other things. Yeah. So, you know if your if your
Producing bread, you got to grow wheat and you know if you're producing route you can grow Roundup, Ready? Wheat, which means you can grow the wheat and spray Roundup on it. And Roundup has as as one of monsanto's leading products, it has glyphosate. They recently had a lawsuit about the actual effects of glyphosate, but let's just say, we don't want to expose our bodies to excessive glyphosate.
And this is why when people go to Europe, one of the most fascinating things to me in all.
Of the world at the moment is how many people over the summer that I know went to Europe, the eighth like shit, they pizza and Breads, and croissants, and all kinds of craziness. They didn't really walk more than normal or anything like that. And they came back and like, I lost weight. Like I'd all these carbs and I lost weight. What's going on? And it goes back to its not the same type of
carbs that maybe we're consuming here in America. Yeah, the a lot of the pesticides that we use in the United States are illegal to use in other countries, not just the pesticides.
You know, some of the products that we feed our pigs are legal in the United States and they help the pigs grow to a marketable. Wait, they're not legal in, like 150 other countries. And so, if you understand some of the economics around both food production and also Fitness, you start to understand why, so many people have had kind of miraculous success, doing things that aren't supposed to work and have had no success doing things that are supposed to
work as you go to the grocery store. So you buy the pizza, get a bunch of just regular me.
You're basically putting it on there. The meat is bouncing out the carbs but also its cleaner carbs and you're going to eat less because of the density of the meat that you're putting on the protein. When you think of tacos, the same principle just like loaded up with as much protein as possible and the carbs while minimal are just outweighed by the protein, you're getting. Yeah. So if I'm if I'm in a make
three tacos you know that's gonna have about 50 grams of carbs. I mean he's seed oil free tortillas that I get from HEB and Texas and I'm going to put about 10 ounces.
Has of Trader, Joe's. Organic ribeye on there, which is going to have another 60 or so g of protein. And so, you know, I'm not a big macro tracker guy, but I'm aware of what the, what I'm eating
and so, put a little cheese on there.
There's a little bit of protein in the, in the tortillas. So we're talking maybe 70, 75 grams of protein, balanced out with 60, or so, grams of carbs. A lot of times people will try to eat this way and they think they're eating more, but they're actually less because protein tends to be one of the most
Shooting macro nutrients that you can eat. So you don't feel like, oh, I can only eat two tacos. It's like I just need as many as I want, and if only 28 to a phony 383, if I want to make it for that, make for, but I just listen
to what my body is telling me. I don't
eat at 1:00 because it's lunch time. I eat lunch when I'm hungry for lunch, and so when you, when you end up aligning, your food consumption with when your body tells you to eat, you know, if you don't have medical, underlying metabolic issues that are really distorted.
Your hunger signals in your living life in accordance with a way that will help you produce viable hunger signals. Most people tend to consume
less food when they do that. Well, I read somewhere that I think you only want to eat movies 1200 calories. If you're optimizing for longevity, like the amount of calories that you should consume, is so much less than the average American diet. And now that's a longevity specific type of eating, if you just want to be healthy.
Maybe not 12:00, but it's also not, you know, there are 3,000 calories, whatever people are eating it on the average, American well diet, not necessarily. So the average American is
eating probably don't even know how they know this because it's not know what are they asking people how many calories you today? How many burgers are using a day but the data that I've read suggest that the average American eats like 3,500 calories a day. Okay, is insane. But like if you're just drinking a bunch of soda and eating chips all the time, I guess you could get up to 3,500, I've actually had success with with having people eat more
I think a lot of times what happens in the diet and fitness industry is people kind of neglect their health. They neglect, what they look like, they sort of, kind of Lie to themselves, that everything's okay. Until one day, they look in the mirror and they say, oh shit, I gotta change something, and I gotta change something fast
and because they've been
neglecting it for the last two or three years, they don't know where to start, so they go Google something or they go on YouTube. Maybe they try a fad diet typically a lot of these
Diets or fad programs say they do like a whole 30 or a 75 hard program or something where they're just, you know, training their body to not eat food, right? All of these
also, what they do?
Well, they're not eating enough right. Like what's a Whole 30 diet? You're not eating, you're not eating sugar. I don't believe you're eating carbs. You're just not eating things or not. Eat a lot of carbs, you're not eating things that your body, craves, right? So, you're starting in a deprivation deprived state state of deprivation
You end up, you know, massively under consuming food and possibly over exercising, your body doesn't like that. And if you do it for long enough, your resting metabolic rate will lower to acclimate to a lower food consuming environment and so it ends up happening. If you under consume food too much for too
long, is your metabolism slows
down, right? And so, you know, sometimes I've worked with people who have been on, you know, salad diets and it's just like
Rabbit. Yeah, like rabbits. Like sometimes if I work with a rabbit and I'm like, no, you should like eat a little bit more like a
lion. They end up losing weight, right? And that's not supposed to happen. Explain, explain why that happens my belief. And a lot of this
is a work in progress, you know. I figured out this fitness system years before I understood some of the science that substantiated. Why it worked? I knew this work back in 2017. I didn't start to know why this was working until 2018, 2019 2020 2021. What?
I think is going on, is the endocrine system is massively underrated as as far as a driver for fat loss and for for muscle gain. And so, what I think is happening is if you approach life in a way that teaches your endocrine system, that, you know, we are in a very fixed environment. There is not that much food out here, your resting metabolic rate, slows down and what a lot of
Don't realize when they're trying to lose fat is even if you're working out, intensely 80 percent of the calories that you're burning are going to be burned outside of the gym, right? And so, a lot of times people will say, well, I got to go do all this cardio, I got it, you know, go lift all this this and that. Well they're not thinking about how is this affecting the 80 percent of the calories that I'm burning outside of the gym. And the same thing is true with how they eat. You can actively withdraw calories from your diet.
But that doesn't mean that there's going to be no impact on the amount of calories that you burn at rest. The most important to things for, for long-term, let's say, fat management or weight management is
figuring out how to
burn a lot of calories at rest in a training side and then on the diet side, right?
So when you're talking about those, you're like okay, if you go to the gym, you work out for 30 40.
- maybe you were really dedicated you go for an hour hour and 15 minutes. You can burn however many calories, right? If I go, and I work out for an hour, maybe I burn, 3, 400 calories, whatever the Apple watch, says, depending on what I'm doing. Maybe I can really stretch it and do 5 or 600 calories, but you're like, yeah. But the rest of the day. What's going on inside your body? And if you can jack up your metabolism, you can jack up kind of the calorie burn that's happening when you're not technically working out, that's going to have way more impact than what you're doing for the hour-long that you're at a gym. 100%. Okay. So how do you
Do it. So tell me all the secrets. So let me tell you what not to do first. The way you burn the most amount of
calories during a workout is just doing cardio right? Or turning weightlifting to a cardiac event. If you're always moving you're always going to be burning calories. So if I just want on the treadmill and ran say I ran eight miles in an hour, right? Which would be a 7:30 Pace. I'm probably gonna end up burning, like 1,200 calories 1100 calories, doing doing that 60-minute run, but when I get out of the gym, I'm not going to really be burning any more calories, you know, this
This is sort of like, having a high income and spending it every month
because Willie, why is it? Because you just ran, right? You're working out. Why is your body not going to continue to burn calories afterwards? If you're the workout is running
Endurance doesn't
translate into a higher metabolic burn as much as intensity to us, okay? And so, if rather than running continuously for 60 minutes, you maybe did interval Sprints. So maybe maybe you ran, one mile worth of interval Sprint's on off and and that took 10 or 15 minutes. And then for the other 45 minutes maybe you did some warm-up sets obviously and they need four sets of squats.
Literally, if that's all you did, you'd have better results than if you just ran 60 Minutes in a row for foremost trained men, at the very
least, why is it better? Is it just literally just the intensity? Do you have to squat heavy weight, light weight like, how does how does that work? So you need to
prioritize speed and force in your workouts and so if your spot prioritizing speed and force inherently, you need to rest longer in between sets. So if you approach
You're doing squats and you're going to do 4 sets of squats. A lot of people will do 60 second, rest 122nd, rest, similar, rest periods to what they might do in like a Barry's Bootcamp class. Unfortunately, if you're doing 60 second rest on squats, you're not squatting very heavy, you're not giving your body. The message to say, hey, I need to build muscle to be able to accomplish this work out. And so guess what, muscles metabolically expensive? Your body's not going to build it unless you're giving it the signal that. Hey dude, you got to put muscle on me.
The own the the easiest way to give it that signal that. Hey dude, you need to like add muscle is by lifting progressively heavier weights but you can't lift progressively heavier weights if you're constantly on short, rest period. 60-second 90 seconds or maybe you're squatting three times a week. As some people will do, when they're starting out on their fitness journey, in order to give your body, the proper signals to build muscle, you need to rest a lot, which is why the if you take a sustainable approach to training, you don't need to kill yourself in the gym.
In fact, killing yourself in the gym will set you back in as much as you want to lose fat. So you need to rest, need to rest. Both between workouts, you need to rest between sets. You don't need to do a ton of stuff in the gym, but what you'd need to do needs to be done. Well, and you need to feel your body in such a way that you can perform at a high level. When you're training,
when you go to the gym, how many times a week do you go? And for how
long I'm going every other day? I go for a couple hours when I
I go because I'm old now, I'm 36. It takes a while for me to warm up, you know, my 20s. I could just go bang on as like everything's good and now it's not. I got to do Mobility work and I, you know, I don't have an office to go to at 9:00 or 10:00 a.m. so I can just kind of take my time but in those two hours, you know, I might be doing 12 minutes worth of cardio, right, 60 seconds on 30 seconds. Off x 8 measured and then I might do 20 working sets of lifting, right.
I'll take all the warm ups but you know, if I'm doing a working set of squats, you know, I'm doing four minutes in between sets so it might take me 10 minutes to warm up for squats. And then it might take me 3:44 sets of squats and so it's taken me twenty six minutes essentially to perform four sets. And if you compare that to how most people trained, most people might be doing 18 sets in those 26 minutes. I'm doing for, but I'm doing for in such a way that my body is given the signal that it needs to hold muscle. Which gives me you know, muscles.
Is effectively the passive income earner of the metabolic system, right? If you're talking to a financial planner they want to say okay we want to get your passive income High because that you know it's a lot easier to build wealth when your passive income aside. Well, it's a lot easier to burn calories when your lean muscle mass is high. It's the same analogy applied to a different area
and when you are doing the four sets, are you just lifting the heaviest weight possible? Are you progressively increasing decreasing during the sets? Like how do you think about what wait you're putting on
When squatting in that scenario.
So I want to be able to complete all the Reps that I've assigned for myself. So if I'm doing four sets of five, if I do is heavy weight as possible in the first set, I can't lift, you know, as has heavy on the second set. So I'm going to be picking probably somewhere between 75 and 80 percent of my one rep max. And so that's going to be very hard. It's gonna be very hard if it's to failure. It's likely going to be the last rep of the last set. I'm not trying to take myself to failure multiple times.
A month, but maybe once or twice per month, per lift, I can go to failure but most days it's like just want this to be hard. I want it to be as hard as it can, possibly be well not detracting from my desire to show up in the gym tomorrow
and when you are doing this so you go you run for, you know, it's called 15 minutes, or so you do the warm-ups, you do the squats, is that the only exercise that you'll do or will you then supplement it with those things? No,
I'll do accessory work. So, you know, as I get older and as I get stronger, I can't do.
The same training that is program for most people. And so, you know, if you end up going to a power lifting gym or a bodybuilding gym, the great thing about these gyms is they have cool equipment that allows you to train your muscles. Very similarly to traditional barbell movements, but doesn't put the same stress on your lower back or on your knees or on your hips from various joints. That will ultimately be the weak link to you you know continuing to develop as you get older and stronger and so after I get done with my heavy squats,
I'll do accessory quad movements. So you know, maybe bodyweight Bulgarian split squats, which is like a single leg squat variant, but I'm not adding weight to it. I could add weight to it but the purpose of doing bodyweight Bulgarian. Split squats is more just to get range of motion, blood flow, tendon ligament strengthening its not to try to push myself to failure after doing that I'll do a variant of a Romanian deadlift. I want to train my posterior chain. So glutes hamstrings, lower back except I'm going to be doing
On a machine called a reverse hyper, which is something that guy named Louis Simmons, who founded and ran Westside barbell for many years and trained many successful athletes including Larry Bird. When Larry Bird house back injury, he got him on the reverse hyper which is essentially very similarly structured to a Romanian deadlift and that you are targeting your glutes. Your hamstrings your lower back but you're not putting that stress on your lower spine, your your upper body's fixed your legs or swing as a pendulum. So you can
get a very similar work out without compressing your spine, which is something that you got to be careful about as you get stronger and older after doing that. I'll go and do some more accessory work focusing on hamstring isolation. A doctor abductor movement so like the yes, no machine and that's it, you know it takes me a while to do it because I'm resting in between sets. And will
you stack these? So you'll move from, you know, machine to machine or will you go and you'll do all the abductor work and then you'll go.
You all the hyper work and then you'll go do another lift or were you actually try to combine the exercise and more of like a circuit type
environment? Only the last few exercises will I Super Saturday more circuit based work. So the main lift, like I'm never going to super set around a compound movement. Like I see people at the gym doing deadlifts and like super setting them like push-ups. I'm like, what are you doing? That's like you just try to make it really hard and not get better because that's exactly what you're going to do. So I'm never going to be super setting, especially
Of a lower-body compound movement with any other movement and and the reverse Hyper's. That's a hard movement to. I'm not gonna be super setting that for the most part, but like hamstring work, a duct, or abductor work, which is like groins and hips. For people who might not have the Kinesiology background, all superset that. Right, I'll go back and forth
and I know you've talked about like the financial incentives. A lot of times people talk about on the food side. When the fitness side, you've got this, like theory that there's Financial incentives as to why the gym.
And the fitness industry is you want to keep you unhealthy? Yeah, rather than make you healthier, what is
that? Well, if you think about my business, as an investable business, my business is a very bad investable business. It's a good business for me personally makes me decent money month after month, but when you're thinking about a business that you can invest in, you want customers who are coming back month after month, year after year, right? I tend to be able to solve people's Fitness problems in like 3 to 6 months sometimes.
Sooner sometimes like 30 days, where's my recurring Revenue? If I'm solving, what could otherwise be a lifetime problem in 30 to 90 days? So, if you think about most most mainstream gyms, or whatever, or weight loss programs, like, you know, Weight Watchers or something like that, the good part about them is they do work, right? If you go to Barry's Bootcamp, in you're out of shape, you will get in better shape likely for several weeks, the downside.
Of these programs is they don't feel sustainable for for the user. And so what happens is the user does it for 30 days 60 days? 90 days 180 days has success Burns Out stops doing it because they're burned out, blames them self rather than the program. Oh, you know if I just stuck to this training program longer it was working so well. But life got in the way. I'll go back and I'll do it next year. I guess what? Next year it's going to work to for the 90 days that you're doing it or hundreds.
I mean, is you're doing and then you fall off again, man. I was such a bad boy, you know, I promise, I'm gonna get it together together. Next year, Santa begin. Go back to him again for four, five, six months. And so people think that their relationship with a training program or Diet needs to require like an unsustainable amount of work. And so when that work isn't sustained, blame themselves, go back, pay the piper again, the next year with, with my
System, if you learn how to
train and you learn how to eat, you don't really need any clothes coaching, or you don't need to pay continual subscription fees month after month year after year. And so, you know, I've worked with people who are obese pre-diabetic, I'd sugar cravings, and within 23 months, all that's not there anymore and you know, they'll pay me like 500 bucks for that. It's like wait the
the mainstream medical industry, you know, would charge somebody like three hundred thousand dollars to accomplish the same thing. It would take 15 years and they consider it a success, right? And so the, the more they can keep you as a actively paying customer, you know, how does a fitness company. How does a gym maximize the lifetime value? Not a gym but like a training system, how does it maximize the lifetime value of each user? Well, it needs to keep them paying
Money month after month. How can it do that? Well it doesn't teach them how to actually do it. Themselves
keeps them dependent on the system. Keeps them dependent on a system that kind of works,
but doesn't work sustainably. What about like the gyms in
terms of, you know, they're the joke is always like, hey, there's only two things that are really hard to quit, it's Comcast and the Jim Frey, like they just don't let you leave or also you'll see all sorts of things where they'll do, you know, a month free or whatever, to get people in the door and they know, hey, they're never going to come, but it's only 20.
Bucks. Yeah. And so they'll keep the subscription because like I'm a start next week. Type, you know, Behavior. What's going on there, with the kind of financial incentives of the gyms themselves?
Well, they know that when people make Fitness decisions, they tend to be in a place where they're not very happy about themselves. They're highly suggestible, right? A little bit emotional and so if they put a piece of paper in front, he's a sign. This like a lot of people are going to sign but they also know come February. A lot of people, they get caught up in life again right there. There
Year's resolutions are a resolutions of yesterday and so they get put on the back burner. And so if you understand, you know, Jim's have Resource Management, just like a parking lot. Just like an airline, right? And so the difference between a gym in an airline is the Jim's not going to be at Max Capacity. Every you know, every minute of every day, it can't be. And so Jim's just need to make sure that they have enough equipment for users at peak hours. And if they realize like
Oh actually only 10% of our members are going to be coming during peak hours. We can sell 1,000 memberships, even though our gym is only you know, 300 square feet is kind of an exaggeration. But like we don't need the commercial real estate space to accommodate for as many memberships as we're selling. We want to sell as many memberships as possible and ideally Service, as few as possible, but just enough to where they keep paying us money. Hmm,
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All of, you know, yesteryear and then it turns into a clothes rack and their house, like what's going on
there. Well, if it works, it works, right. I'm not going to ever tell somebody to stop doing something that works the challenge with and more Peloton than the tonal is Peloton. Workouts can be hard. Like I'm not going to take away from from the fact that they're challenging. What I will argue with is our they effectively challenging right? Where one of the challenges with with workouts and and workout
Patience. Is most people will ascertain, the efficacy of a workout by how hard it felt how store they got and how much they sweat and guess what a Peloton can check all those boxes so can a Barry's Bootcamp class? So can CrossFit, unfortunately, those three metrics are not the metrics that ultimately are highly highly correlated with fat gain and or fat loss and muscle gain, right? And so what I've found with peloton's and other lower intensity longer,
Duration movements and I say lower intensity like you're not it's not the same intensity of sprinting, 200 meters. A lot of guys find it challenging to get really defined abdominals doing those. You can get in plenty good shape for from a longevity standpoint from a cardiac health standpoint only doing Peloton work, but it's unlikely that you're going to want to rip your shirt off at a pool party. Just you know, going on the Peloton for even an hour a day
and is that
Because it's all cardio-based and there's not a lot of actual weight lifting. Yes,
there's there's that and then the fact that the cardio itself is only using your legs. And so the most effective card you use your full body, whether it's running or assault biking and so assault bikes have a few different trade names. They can go by the Rogue assault by Crow gecko bike is another alternative Schwinn airdyne as another alternative, but there it's essentially the bike that we're use your hands. At the same time. As you're peddling, that will allow you to attain a much higher.
Heart rate than a legs, only bike. And what I've found is, you know, the the harder I can push myself, the closer, I can push myself to my vo2max during training is very, very highly correlated with getting leaner and so rather than focusing on like, oh, when I go in a calorie deficit, I'm going to go on a diet to lose fat. I just focus on, how am I going to increase my cardiac output? How am I going to train cardio at, as high of an intensity as possible for a short duration of time?
And how do I make sure my metrics that I'm tracking or continually getting better? So that I know I'm improving in my conditioning and I can't really do that on a Peloton or a legs only
bike, I fucking hate the assault bike. I've never told you this story before when I was in college. I blew out my knee. And if you were hurt, you had to go on the sidelines, the entire practice, and they made you work out. And the whole thing was like, keep guys from basically, bullshitting like rhetoric. It's going to be harder than practice. So let's let's see how hurt you are, 100%.
Went right and so like you're like watching and you're like oh look at all those guys just standing there waiting to like you know, they're getting water. And I'm over here working my ass off. And so, for months, I couldn't do anything with my legs. So pretty much 90% 80% of the exercises. They were having people on the sidelines who were injured do I couldn't do. And so the punishment that I would do every single day was I get on the assault bike and would not pedal and I would have to do with my arms only
Meet me in that assault by, we got problems still to this day. That's that's the thing will training. That's the thing with
training is is oftentimes the thing. You know, if you look at like a frat bro, right? Frat Bros tend to, you know, have they drink, so they have a little bit more fat on them than they want them want to, but they also go to the gym regularly and see you drill down. You're like, okay, you're training regularly, your diets, not great, but your training regularly. So like what? What's going on there? And almost certainly, the Frat Bros are neglecting training, their legs and they're not doing cardio, right?
If you go in the gym you just lift your upper body. Well your upper body is a man is only going to carry about 45, 40 percent of your total muscle mass. And so by neglecting training your lower body, you're missing out on a majority of the metabolic benefit from lifting. And if you're not doing cardio, what I found with cardio is and I didn't know this, when I first got started on that path, but as I've gotten deeper into the fitness game and delved further into my endocrine, hi
Offices. For why why people lose fat is I really have found both with myself and other people that I've worked with and then studies that also exists. That if you train your, your cardio at close to Max Capacity and it doesn't need to be long, right? But it does need to be close to Max Capacity. What ends up happening for? A lot of people is their hunger gets regulated better.
So it's a lot easier
to eat the right amount. Like people think that they get way hungry or from doing cardio that's typically from doing car.
At a lower or moderate intensity for a long period of time. If you do cardio for at a lower moderate intensity, for a long period of time, you will almost certainly get
hungrier and this is people who like, go on a 10-mile run that attending it pays and they're like our ran 10 miles today and you're like kind of yeah, yes, you did. Run the 10 miles but your heart rate never went above, you know, 120 you ran 10 miles
but you're going to eat it back or you're going to go hungry tonight, right? So unless you're willing to perpetually be hungry and suffer the effects of that, because as we talked about earlier, that's going to disrupt your
your metabolism, it's not sustainable. Whereas for a lot of people myself included, if you have an incredibly intense workout, sometimes you're less hungry, right? That's not supposed to happen. Based on the calories in, calories out model, it assumes that hunger and training intensity scale linearly and they don't at the tail end if you can train at a high intensity. And again, it doesn't need to be for a long duration. But if you can train at a high intensity, what happens with the
A people's our appetite becomes better regulated. I'm hungrier on off days frequently than I am on training days. Why is that? Well, I happen to believe in. There is some research out there, possibly corroborating it, but we know research can change. Is that the higher intensity to you do cardio? You know, it does have an impact on your leptin levels, which have an impact on your hunger. So if you become less hungry from training, a certain way that's like a shortcut to dieting, you don't have to
Obviously not eat. You just have to listen to what your body is telling you. And if it's telling you to eat less, you're naturally going to be on a diet.
So really, it's eat high-protein, don't eat, you know, the horrible ingredients for you lift weights and do high intensity cardio. You don't have to do it for that long. Is that like a fair kind of synopsis of
it and eat when you're hungry? Stop eating. When you're full be careful about sugar consumption, eat the amount of sugar that you crave but not more and that's four.
Most people, if you have recurring sugar Cravings, you probably can't follow that model. But for most people who don't have recurring sugar Cravings, it's, you know, if you're really craving a desert, eat it right? But eat the amount that you need to satisfy that craving. And once that creating has been satisfied, stop eating it, you know, be okay, throwing away food by people feel like, oh, you know, I paid for this, I got to eat it. It's like, yeah, but you're going to pay a trainer on Friday to get you on Fatso. Like yeah. You paid $30 for the meal and you may be throwing away $15 worth of it. We're going to go pay a trainer hundred bucks on Friday. So like what are we doing here?
We're going against ourselves. So yeah, that's relatively true from the diet side, you know, the three B rule?
No, I have a friend who will go unnamed. He's like, yeah, I ate
dessert, like sure. He's
like, anyone ask me table desert his three B, though he goes because the first bite makes you want to have a little bit more. The second byte like, damn, this is good and the third ones like, alright, I'm
done. Yeah. And he's like, I just have three
bites, no matter what it is, he didn't care. If you gave him a whole pie or whatever, like he's going to be three bites and they won't eat anymore and he's like
those three B.
Whatever I need and I move on. Well, I approached
sugar like a drug many years ago, you know, this is when I was working at Google where I was like you know, I started having a lot of success kind of switching my training style to the way I do now in about 2014 and that served as a catalyst to say well you know what else can I experiment with my diet? Oh you know I mean he's Eminem's every afternoon, do I need to what happens if I you know mix my Eminem's with almonds what happens if I you know progressively overload the almonds relative to the Eminem So
Oh, you know, I'm starting with a one-to-one ratio and then it's a one to two ratio than its 125 ratio, and I realized that like sugar is like a drug in the sense that you will love the amount you eat, whether that amount is, you know, a half pound a day or an ounce, a day. Like, that's the amount that your body likes. And so, it's just like, what if you want to be the happiest person possible? What's the optimal amount of alcohol to consume? It's like, well, the people who consume 10 drinks a day, which is the top decile of America.
They're probably not as happy as the people
who are consuming, like one drink a day, right? People who drink one drink a day on average. They might be happier than the people who drink 0 drinks a day because they're like going out there being social occasionally. So I looked at Sugar very similarly, to any other drug or it's like, okay, consuming 0 is not sustainable. I don't want to be a sugar teetotaler, but consuming more than a minimal amount gives no value to my
life. So what do you eat? Like, what sugar do you consume? Do you just like, pig out on ice cream to eat?
Snickers bars. Like, what do you
eat? It. Tends to be healthier ingredients. So like Hugh chocolate. I love you chocolate.
That's the one that comes in like the brown on yeah. Ever bag looking thing. Yeah, Gucci
chocolate prices. You know, you gotta be shelling out, like, eight bucks for these bars. But, you know, if your chocolates expensive, you can't eat that much of
it.
Well, what is there like, what's so good about that chocolate? There's only about seven or eight grams of
sugar per ounce. Or if you compare that to a traditional candy bar, traditional candy bar OU have like 15 to 20 grams per ounce so it's got a lot less sugar. It's got much cleaner ingredients. So you know, it doesn't have like the soy lecithin as a to act as an emulsifier. So it doesn't have like a lot of the ingredients that people will consume that may have adverse effects on their
Them their endocrine system and but primarily it's the lower sugar.
And then what about a lot of the brands that make protein shakes or C4 or no explode or like all those different brands, they now have come out with peanut butter cups and like all these types of what appear to be deserts or candies. But they're, you know, less than one gram of sugar, they claim and 15 grams of protein or whatever. They're like, you know, pitches sure is that all bullshit or are these companies actually figuring this
out.
I haven't looked at the ingredient list because I don't eat that many supplements, but I'll give you the pros and cons of the best case scenario. The best case scenarios are using clean ingredients. So they're using very similar ingredients to a huge chocolate, and they're just mixing in a protein powder with it. Ideally a clean Source either, you know, an organic whey protein, they're probably not using organic, whey protein, collagen protein, collagen peptide, pro protein, you can make delicious desserts. With, with those ingredients I have some in my recipe book where it's like a desert. I just, you know, try to
Have a little bit of protein when I can and not that much sugar. The challenge that they have as well as the challenge with every artificial sweetener is I have found for me personally that artificial sweeteners actually make me crave sugar and so you might not be eating sugar when you eat that artificially sweetened, peanut butter cup. But if you're eating something that makes you crave. Sugar later is it. You know, the impacts of that meal cannot be confined to that meal because it's going to dictate what you're going to be eating later.
Day. Most people don't report having their Cravings change like substantially altered by consuming a Stevia or sweetener alternative. But I think they're wrong. I think they just don't understand the signals at their bodies, giving them and I actually think that old much larger percentage of the population has their sugar Cravings changed with the addition of artificial sweetener. So I would not Advocate eating those
You know, Ad nauseam. Like what
about fruit? They say, fruit got a lot of sugar. You're not really too much fruit. Yeah. Well, I think that's true.
If you're eating like whole fruit, it's probably
okay. Like, if you go to the grocery store, I do this right on iMovie. Tell me I'm an idiot. I go to the grocery store and, you know, they got like the little plastic, you know. Yeah, I touch the plastic but in it, they got all the fruits cut up and it's like a fruit bowl. Yeah. And I grabbed it and I like a whole one every day. Yeah. Is that good? Yeah. Like I mean it's
Thing. If you're putting it into a blender and your blending out, like 64 ounces of smoothies, a fruit smoothies in a day, I don't think you're doing that. If we're talking about like, real food, you know, unless unless your consumption is just at the extreme tail end, which I don't think it is based on what you're saying, it's probably going to be
okay. Yeah, well I think of it as there's probably, is some sugar, you know, whatever. Like, there's something in it. That definitely, I'm like, Matt could eat a chocolate bar or I could eat this right feels like this healthier than the chocolate bar.
And then also a lot of times, like that's a snack, right? So it's like I feel like I am hungry but I'm not hungry enough to eat an entire meal and so, this is something that like, kind of like holds me over almost. Yeah, to some degree. And I usually eat it in the kind of middle afternoon also, because I don't want to drink coffee, right? At, like, 3:30 4:00, what am I call? I could use like a little bit more energy, right? And so, I tend to eat, you know, like fruit something like that, which I guess it just works for
me. Well, if it works for, you works for you.
I think that's a great point that you brought up, comparing it to a chocolate bars, like, oh, this is healthier than a chocolate bar. A lot of the framework of my intuitive diet was actually influenced by, you know, my background in investing being an economics major at Vanderbilt and really approaching it like, okay, what additional value is this thing? Is this food Choice, giving me relative to the alternative and at what cost and is it worth it. So, if this fruit tastes 95% as good as the Snickers bar,
But only impacts my body. Let's say let's say, it does impact your body negatively, for example, say,
but the negative impact of my body is only 10%
of what the Snickers bar is. It's worth it. I should choose that fruit all the time.
Yeah. What about coffee? I love coffee. Yeah. How many coffee? How much coffee you drink a day? Well today, I only had one, but I get an average day probably two or three, two or three cups of coffee. Yeah. So that's like maybe 350 milligrams of caffeine. Some like that. Yeah, yeah. I've been trying to think of
What the optimal amount of caffeine is very long story, but I'll make it quick. I think a large at Starbucks. I know it's not called large, but whatever. The large thing has like 400 milligrams of caffeine. Supposedly if you Google it but I'm like, there's no way this actually has 400 milligrams of caffeine but if you Google that's what it says. Yeah, right. And so if you drink that in the morning like you pretty much tapped out for the day like you probably shouldn't drink more caffeine later, right? But what I usually do is if I drink
That then I'll have like a shot of espresso or something later around like 1:00 or so, right. So, these are playing and you're like, well, actually, maybe you shouldn't drink the large coffee. If it does actually have 24 mg, which is questionable, maybe you should just drink like two or three shots of espresso, which, you know, 90 milligrams of caffeine per shot. Like, okay, now you're still in that 350, 400 range but you're actually like spreading it out through the day, but you're not pushing too far into the late afternoon where then it
affects your sleep, right? So I tell people that the optimal amount of
Fear caffeine to consume is the amount right up until it starts affecting your hydration or sleep and that's going to be different person to person. Some people might might consume 150 milligrams of caffeine which is like a cup and a half of coffee at noon and they might not be able to go to sleep. That night was like okay well you can't do that. That's too much for you. Other people can drink coffee and like go to bed right after now I doubt their sleep is as deep when they do that, but fine, if they don't know, if there's not an obvious adverse impact to drinking coffee,
Then it's most likely, okay and if you look at a lot of the studies like the the studies that tell told people to not drink coffee they didn't isolate for alcohol consumption. So what they found was that oh, if you drink a lot of coffee die sooner. It's like yeah because like the people who are drinking a lot of coffee or hungover every
morning. Yeah. But I also, but I also just saw a study that says the exact opposite. It says like, basically, if you drink caffeine, it could extend your life, right? So I kind of feel like the scientists are full of shit because they do these different studies and they
The same study different conclusions like what's going on?
Well they're improperly isolating for variables. So if you if you look at caffeine consumption relative to longevity, it's possible that it's negatively Court. In fact, it's probably negatively correlated to longevity. You think so, except for the fact that when you account for the fact that a lot of the people who are drinking a lot of the coffee or hungover every morning,
right? So if you just say,
Okay person, if you just look at the cohort that drinks like under,
Non-alcoholic drinks a week. And then you look at their caffeine consumption and you compare their longevity. What you likely see is a positive correlation between caffeine consumption of longevity, but if you include everybody, well, the people who consume the highest amount of caffeine are also commonly consuming, the highest amount of alcohol.
So the reason why their longevity is diminished is not because of the caffeine. It's because the alcohol. But if you mix them all together in the same study, it's going
to say oh wow, look at like looks looks like the high caffeine consumers are going to die.
Young alcohol makes you dehydrated.
That's one thing, it does and
caffeine makes you dehydrated so people who drink a lot of alcohol at night and they drink a lot of coffee during the day. Are they just on like a wheel love dehydration and they're like severely and just persistently
dehydrated? That's one thing that they are. They're probably also persistently fatigued because if you drink a lot of alcohol at night your sleep is going to be much lower quality and then during the day you know you're loading up with caffeine. You're going to just feel like you're running on empty by the time you get to the you know, the afternoon.
On how many hours you sleep at night, six or seven. I try to do better than that,
and six or seven. Yeah, I wanted my eat.
Well, you know, I got, you know, genetics to work through. I stopped sleeping. Well, when I was like 17 years old
because you're not working hard enough during the day. That's got to be, that's got a few, I forget who said it, one of the, like, the Stokes or whatever, basically, said something to the effect of. Like, if you have a full day, then you have a full night of sleep. He's got work hard and they sleep better. Yeah, it was the challenge is cut the challenges. Come when you're lying in bed, thinking about the full day of work, but you have the
Next day and then decide. They
start spinning and you just don't go to bed. Alright, so so the caffeine makes sense. What about pre-workout when you? And I have known each other for a long time. Now, when I was, I don't know, maybe starting around the age of like 16 or 17, like I was in high school. I was playing sports and I was like this weightlifting thing that seems like that's important. I'm a young kid. How do I get
Has Jack this possible before I go into the weight room and then just do everything, like, that was loaded, my Midtown as an idiot. It worked. I would take whatever its life, whatever supplement you can find if it was in the store and he could get me jacked up to go to the way room. I was taking, I tried it and so when I got to college, like you get smarter, right? You start to understand like okay, like this makes me super jittery, this doesn't whatever and maybe I actually didn't get that much smarter than the two things that
Most guys were taking in college was a no xplode. Yeah and C4. And there was like debates of like oh the no explode. Yeah. Like it your face tingles and like that your arms are tingling or whatever the C-4 was like cleaner. But guys would argue like the C-4 didn't work because I couldn't feel it. Right? My guess. Is that both of these are horrible for you but like how do you like how do you underwrite Pre-Workout in terms of it being healthy? Not healthy, worth it. Not worth it.
It's
like a total scam like
like you do these things help like
maybe you know I've read there's
nothing else that made my face tingle like that before I write it's
like, okay. So I don't take any of these supplements. I've never taken any of these supplements and people online think. I take steroids all the time. So if you look at like what is important to execute in a training plan or a diet and fitness lifestyle, it's like what you eat and how you train is way more important than the supplements you take.
Sure, if you take creatine, whether creatine HCL creatine, monohydrate studies show that that should positively affect your gains. That being said, you know, I got to 4% 5% body fat, just taking a multivitamin and like fish oil, right? And my only pre-workout was coffee and it still is my only pre-workout is
coffee. You think that pre-workout is a bigger scam in the multivitamins. In fact, the multivitamins are scams to you, tell me, they packed 64 different vitamins into that little pill. Well, I'm
telling you that I
I take it with no expectation of its efficacy because it take it cost, 25 cents. Yeah and cents or whatever and I think okay worst-case scenario, I piss it out. Yep. Right. So I'll pop that in the morning. No big deal. And if some of it sticks it sticks and if most of it doesn't, that's okay too, with the with the Pre-Workout, you know, that gets in people's psychology or like, oh, I need to have my no xplode otherwise I can't train. It's like dude, you can train like and if you have coffee in your system, well, you know, explode as caffeine, but like if you have coffee in your system like that to me is fine or if you knowif.
Something doesn't handle coffee that well. Cold, brew or some other caffeinated. I think that like the no
xplode specifically because that's the one on I used to take all the time. It was there's caffeine right? Which is I think it's like actually the thing that really gets people kind of addicted to it as like I want to feel like I'm caffeinated going in to go work out. The second thing though is there's all of the like oxygenation that's happening in the bloodstream. Whatever. It's been too long. I haven't had this stuff a long time but there's like that feeling of the pump.
Right? And to some degree, it almost feels kind of like, you know, it's like a drug high, right? Like right. You get the drug high like oh I need that again. If you go and you work out I don't know if that actually affects like the training itself as much as it's the feeling and it's like tricking someone into like I need this again or not,
it should impact training, you know, if you can get better, blood flow, you know, what's the purpose of warming up? It's like a lot of it's to get good blood flow. So if you can get better circulation, when you train, you should train better. That being said, I think you're right in that.
Does lead to a better pump and that's what people to my earlier point for people. Miss judging the efficacy of workouts. The pump that people get from a workout is not that well correlated with the efficacy of a workout but it's what what the most proximal symptom is. When you're done training, you look in the mirror, you got veins coming out of your arms and you're like, oh okay, yeah, this I got a great workout in. It's like, you don't know that you're not going to know that for like several days. Whether you had a good workout, is there
like high sugar in that stuff or anything that people should be worried about as well? Like, in a lot of the
Workouts. Like, obviously there's the caffeine. There's all the no whatever, you know, stuff but is there also like the detrimental from like a diet standpoint where the should be worried that would
probably be one of the least likely time periods that one might worry about sugar consumption and I sang open it yeah cause you're gonna go burn it. Now, if you're diabetic obviously you have like different issues than somebody who's not. But yeah if you're going to be consuming sugar, the best time to consume it is right before or right after during workouts, will that impact your credit
Things for sugar later in the day and probably will but you're doing it at a time where it's actually likely to lead to increased Jim output, which is okay in my book.
You ever heard of inder ox? No, yeah, you didn't know, I didn't know. I was fucking well-skilled here. Take me deep in the game, inder. Ox's something that a lot of athletes would use especially like football players and things like that, where it has a unique combination of really high, intensity, cardio, sprinting, all the type of stuff, but then also
A lot of physical combat, in terms of, you know, pushing and pulling and doing all this stuff during practice and so about recovery. So, you would I know guys who did a lot of crazy shit before practice. But after practice basically put the endure oxen Water, Shake It Up and you drink it on your way to go get food or whatever and it's just to help you recover again, whether it works or not, who knows. But it's like a hydration and Recovery, whatever. And so, when I was in college, I don't remember what year in college must have been over.
Any one given that this involves alcohol. So it was making jungle juice. And for those who don't know, Jungle Juice you basically have like what do you call it? Like Kool-Aid tub. Yeah like Kool-Aid on. That's not what they're called but that is what it is used for. It's like a like a tub and you would get with like a cap
on it or whatever, get it at
Walmart, super cheap and you just pour a bunch of stuff into it. You make an alcoholic drink and so a lot of it is
Kool-Aid and kind of juices and things like that, you could see somebody
pour red Kool-Aid than
orange juice. Then I'll kind of weird shit and then a bunch of alcohol. And so I remember it was in someone's dorm room. They're sitting there making it and it was a full players dorm room and all sudden he was like looking around what else could he pour in there and he just took an entire kind of bucket of the endure ox and it was flavors like watermelon flavors and then he was like, well this shit's got flavor in it and he dumped it in. And the only reason why I remember this is,
Because people were hammered really for the entire night, but not like different than what you would expect from Jungle Juice, whatever. Okay, the next morning, no one had a
hangover because had electrolytes in it.
And so I remember thinking to myself, like kind of joking, but also kind of be in like, if I was like, actually cared that much, I'd like to look at the science. I was like, wow, you're actually able to probably poor things into these alcoholic beverages, which prevent the dehydration, which allow for better recovery. They do all this time.
Stuff. And so became a good joke of like oh make sure the endure Ox is in the jungle juice. But like now that I think I'm probably a little bit more educated in terms of how stuff works like. It does seem like there are certain things that people can do. If you are going to drink, I could, at least maybe not reverse the effects or completely mitigated. But like, it could be more beneficial typing of drinking than, hey, let me just go drink a bunch of beer and I
hope I'm okay. Tomorrow morning. Right? Right. Right. I think, you know, limiting mixed drinks is a big
And because I've found, if I had more than one mixed drink, I'm gonna have a hangover the next day
and because it's the juicer plus Earth sugar.
Yeah, sugar plus alcohol equals hangover so Red Bull, vodkas or bad
correct. Don't know about the
sugar-free Red Bull Red Bull vodkas. Not, not not prepared to comment on those but yeah you want to make sure you're having a lot of water because the alcohol will dehydrate you. One thing that I've also started doing the you know couple nights a month that I will have a drink is all consider having a little bit more melatonin supplements.
Supplementation. I take a melatonin supplement Knightley, but I know that if I'm introducing something to my body that's going to disregulated my sleep, I can either just have a night of shitty sleep or I can, you maybe have an extra couple milligrams of melatonin and I'm still not going to sleep great, but I'll probably sleep a little bit better than if I didn't have that Dame. You just told me.
I told you before we started, I had a bad night of sleep. I switched up mighty last night. Mmm, now that I think about, I was trying to think, what did I do?
Differently. Why did I have a bad night? So I usually sleep like a baby. Why did I sleep differently? The tea that I drink. Every single night is chamomile. Tea that has some melatonin in it. Last night I had run out and there was another to use chamomile tea, but there's no melatonin and I bet you that that actually had a bigger impact than I thought problem solved so conversations were just solving my own problems. No. But like this is like actually interesting because like there is like inputs and outputs, right? And as you start to learn it and, you know,
I was thinking I'm like I know I slept worst last night then in previous night's and again let's just hold constant like that. Is what it is. You can quickly just revert back and say okay I know I need to do this and then I'll get good sleep and yeah I'm continue. So it sounds like you pretty much know what your nighttime routine is before you go to sleep, to make sure you have the best night sleep. You can.
Yeah. And in the more regular you routine is for anything, the easier it is to troubleshoot anything, right? If you consistently eat and train a certain way and
Something changes in your life. It's much easier to say. Okay, what did I change? I do the same thing every day. The only thing that changed was x y z. Therefore, I must change X or Y, or Z. If I want to get back to where I was, so, what do you do before you go to sleep? Well, if I'm in a state where it's legal, I will consume some THC. I've I
actually wasn't well, how you do that?
Like Edibles, I found that, you
know, as we
For people who don't know?
Yeah marijuana.
Now you say marijuana. They think you're a cop. That's I read the YouTube comments. They say marijuana. It means you're a cough. Okay. Yeah. So if it's legal
nothing affects my quality of sleep, better than that
and I in his just act like a militant type like it's like almost putting you to sleep a little bit just shut my brain down
or or sometimes it speeds it up to the point where it shuts it down and I don't know if that's like mild ADHD or whatever.
But you know, from the time I was a division, one baseball player to when I got drafted by the Rockies, played a couple years in their system. My Sleep Quality just went like this and I was talking to some of the guys about this before we started about how like playing professional baseball. You know, every day can be your last day. It's like can you imagine coming to work or literally any day? You can be fired like all the time constantly, you're always on the hot seat and you know, obviously it became challenging for me too.
Sleep under those conditions. And so you know early twenties you little self medicate, go of a couple drinks or something like that and then just makes your sleep worse. We yeah, it's a temporary solution that ends up a long-term problems. And and so I found I never wanted to consume weed because I thought well, you know, larger testosterone or Sleep Quality blah blah blah. Well you know, like I was in San Francisco. I was going to consume what was available to be in San Francisco. I just noticed in my late twenties like wow, I seem to sleep so much.
Better when I consume this. And So eventually, like in my late 20s, I just kind of basically stopped drinking like a couple times a month or something like that and just you know switched over to consuming Edibles and that got my sleep schedule. Much more regular, is it lower your testosterone? It may my testosterone is very average, right? So that's something that people surprises people, where if you look at, you know, follow me on Twitter, follow me on Instagram, you seen all the food I eat, you know, looking at me with shirtless and seeing all the ABS and everything. It's like
No, my testosterone is very average and I think that, you know, it could be, I don't know if its genetic. I never tested it when I was younger, but it is possible that, you know, introducing THC and to into my routine, has lowered it at the same time, it's like, well, do I have any of the symptoms of low testosterone? Like, no, not really. So it's like, all right. Well, I think it's probably okay, we're mid-range testosterone. Yeah,
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testosterone or not really
just lifting heavy and kind of high intensity cardio. Pretty much takes care of it. Yeah. And and sleeping.
Enough and not overdoing it. So I'll tell you an example
of a guy named Mason, who joined the group training that I run. I started running it about a year and a half ago and it online group and he joined, he saw the program and he been following me on Twitter for over a year prior to then seeing all the food, seeing all the training and he liked me. And so he wanted to take the next step. He bought my master class, he wanted to take the next step and actually have me, be his hands on coach. And so he looks at all the training materials, his first responses.
There's no fucking way. It can be this easy. He just thinks all this is like an online scam. This guy's like he's taking steroids, whatever. But there's no way that you can train this way and eat this way and get those
results, but he trusted me. Fortunately, he trusted me, he did the
program for eight weeks and after eight weeks, he tested his testosterone level before starting. And he tested after his testosterone at 47 years old, went from 550 to 880 right? Which is that it was Sammy, which is
about the same as taking a
Dose of steroids. And so it basically it's the equivalent of getting like 40 years younger. Right? You know, the average person who 60 goes back to being 20 years old and their testosterone level and, you know, thinking about what he was doing before he was training too much, right? He thought he had to be in there all the time. You can't miss a workout. Small percentage of the population is like this, they're hyper disciplined. They think, if they stopped raining for a day, or a week, they're going to like regress to their fat self that they were 35 years.
Ago. It's like do something to happen and when they start resting more and doing less, they realize that they can train at a higher intensity and their metabolism and endocrine system re regulates to where it naturally should be, or could be they just never realized that their entire
lives. Is it worse to over train or to not train?
Whoo. Wow, polar extremes. It's probably worse to not train now. Well how extreme are how extreme are we over? Training is the better question. Ronnie Coleman overtrained
Right. Ronnie Coleman's. Got 16 screws in his back. Is he less healthy than somebody who never trained and is the same age? He probably is.
So if we're going to, if we're going to go extreme extreme
then it could be over training, could be worse. But over training in, the more traditional sense,
it's actually really dangerous.
You know, I got my best friend growing up. His dad
used to run 10, 15,
20 miles like every day. He's addicted to running and this is true with a lot of. A lot of people who are addicted to running, you start looking at
at them when they're 60 65, their joint start breaking down because and they run on pavement because it felt fine in their 30s and all of a sudden, it really hits him hard when they hit 60 65. Well, this guy used to be
killer like he'd be running like a hundred miles a week in his 40s
and then by the time he hit 65 he ran a marathon when he was like 60 65. And then like two years later is back gives out because it's like his back just couldn't handle the repetitive stress of essentially over training for so many years. So is he
Healthy than somebody who's basically sedentary his entire life,
possibly uncertain. There is only measured, they're both bad. Yeah, when you think of a lot of the food stuff as well, men and women, any differences or older people and younger people, or do you think that the diet and training may be kind of the same thing works across genders and also age my system, my specific
system works better for men and athletic women reason being
The more muscle mass, you have the easier, it
is to diet intuitively, the less muscle mass, you have you kind of either need to eat at a caloric deficit, which I know I hate like basically go hungry if you want to lose fat and it's only temporary like you don't really have the muscle mass to sustain a powerful metabolism. So you first in my view most likely need to build focus on building muscle. First, what? Also happens like a lot of times women around, you know, around their monthly cycle though.
Cravings for sugar and it's like, okay, if I'm if I'm telling people, listen to your cravings and be responsible about them, but like given to them slightly. You can't tell somebody who has massive sugar Cravings to give into their sugar Cravings because that's just going to be the first step to getting them down, a path of eating bad stuff. So, does my system work for women? Yes, it works for some women, but it doesn't work for as many women as it works. For men, it's much more common for men. Particularly men who play like a varsity sport in high school. The closer you are to that.
The the more likely it is that your results will align with all the other people who had tremendous success of my system about
stress. Like I feel like there's times where people are super stressed out their whole diet training, everything falls apart. And I know that people who are like you I'm super stressed out on my go to the gym. Come back, like a new person. Yeah, right this stress relief. And so, how do you think about stress? It kind of over dresses,
really interesting. And I actually have a hypothesis for why people are fat like another pipe offices for why people are
And it is. What
does stress due to your hunger levels?
And my hypothesis is skinny, people become
less hungry when they're stressed out and fat, people become more hungry
when they're stressed by. Well if you just ask people
you know because part of part of me working with people in training intuitively is like gu eat more or do you eat less when you're stressed and typically the people who are underweight eat less when they're stressed and typically the people who are overweight more than when they're stressed. And so I think
your stress hormones will scramble up your hunger signals. For me, personally, they make me less hungry. So, I have to overeat when I'm stressed, if I don't want to lose muscle mass, probably more people have to be more careful about the types of food they eat when they're stressed, but the
gym, the gym is the best antidepressant that you can find, right?
I got off of the plane. I didn't sleep that well on Saturday night because I had to get up early to fly on Sunday. So I probably slept like 5 hours or something like that on
Saturday.
First thing I did, when I got off the plane in Miami's, I went straight to the gym,
actually went straight to Dunkin Donuts to get coffee but then I went straight to the gym after I got coffee and I worked out for a couple
hours and I felt great. I say they say that that actually especially like red eyes, or time zone changes or whatever. If you as soon as you land you go and you work out whether it's at the hotel body weight, whatever it's supposed to like basically make the jet lag, much less. Yes. And
I've found that like especially, you know, when I was working crypto going to Asia, I found that my jet lag route.
Is like pretty good. As far as, you know, it would probably take me about 36 hours from flying from San Francisco to Hong Kong or Beijing, to get acclimated to the times when they're 80, 90
percent, where, you know, a lot
of my colleagues, my age, it would take three, four, five days for them to get back on back on that schedule. And you think, especially, if you're traveling executive or you're taking a lot of, you know, cross time zone flights like you need to get your body back on schedule as soon as possible. Like that's crucial and figuring out how to fly and how to train
Very much help that.
Yeah. So when you think about stress, it feels like a lower stress. Life is better. In general, both for longevity for regulating, what you eat for being able to train with a routine or do you think some degree of stress is actually healthy and good and has some
benefits a balance, right?
So if you look at like no
stress a good example,
could either be
people who know they're going to inherit billions of dollars when they grow up though their life.
Typically
don't go as well as one might think. Or you could look at the rat studies where they're like, oh what happens if we give rats like everything that they want and they just don't have to worry about food and other about anything. It's like oh they started cannibalizing themselves and they stop learning how to like take care of their kids.
So the human body and the
human mind cannot actually exist in a
Stressless State
permanently. What you want to avoid is chronic stress, you know, every day, I wake up and I'm worried about
Out paying my bills, every day I wake up and I'm worried about what my boss is. Going to tell me the right amount of stress is acute measured stress.
So you go to the gym that
stress you're putting your body through a
stressful routine but it's a cute. You're
not training 16 hours a day, right? If you're in mergers and Acquisitions and you're working 80-hour weeks, like that's not the type of stress that's healthy. If you're going through an intense
3060 minutes every
day where you can build up to that stressful event and then come down
from
Finger to the wind. That's probably the right amount of stress. You can't have too much. Can't have two little Goldilocks. You got to have the right amount. Yeah. And how do you think about stress in your life? Like, it seems like leave lead a pretty low stress life. Yeah. And I know you talked a lot about like, monetizing your life. I'm sorry about that. Yeah, so you know, the people tell me that I'm really
efficient at figuring out. What is the
shortest quickest path between two points and you know, if I want to live a
lifestyle you know, when I'm younger, I wanted to be very rich, right?
Everyone who's young ones to be really rich and you know as I got older I found that it was a lot easier to build like modest wealth and extreme wealth. And so if you know, if I'm 36 years old and I have modest but not extreme wealth. Well what would I do if I were extremely wealthy? I would work out all the time. I would eat delicious food and I would kind of like go and and not
answer to a boss. Those are kind of the three things that would change
compared to my corporate life. If our really wealthy and it's like, okay well if I don't have a hundred million dollars but I
I make enough money getting paid to do the things that I would do. Anyway, what's really that different, right? Like, I wake up. I'm yeah,
it's like I didn't have to actually take the steps to build that massive wealth Empire. I do what I want to do with my day and I get on with it. And so
the more you can figure out how to get paid for
doing the things that you already do. They are already interested in the easier, it is to make money in the easier. It is to enjoy your life while
You're making money. Will you become a billionaire that way? Probably not. But you may
because if you're really interested in something you're probably going to end up hyper fixated on it and learning more about
it than the next guy.
And so one thing that I tell people
because I also do you know life coaching business coaching career coaching because so much of fitness overlaps with mindset and I did work in tech for 10 years
is figure out how to get paid for the thing that makes you weird because everybody's trying to find out, find a unique
selling point, everybody's trying to figure out
Out what their point of differentiation is and it's like, okay, rather than try to be somebody, you're not to
separate yourself from the pack, look yourself in
the mirror and figure out. Why do all my friends? Think I'm a total fucking
weirdo and figure out how to get paid on that because nobody's going to be able to replicate your weirdness. That's innate to you. Like, what are some examples of people? Like what are they weird about that? They end up monetizing.
It look like, let's look at Mark Zuckerberg, right? Mark Zuckerberg
at 21, 22 years old turned down the opportunity to have
Have Facebook
acquired for like a 200 million dollar payout or something like
that. How many 21 22 year? Olds would say?
Yeah. You know, I'm going to live. I'm just going to sleep with some Bros on sleep, on a mattress or whatever. I'm kind of building this thing. I'm really interested in building The Social Network like very few,
probably 99.99%
of people. If given an offer to sell their start up at 21 years old, for like a billion dollars or whatever. The offer was, would take it
right? So, he's weird because, and you worked with him.
He's weird because like how many other people could turn down that much money to
build a project that they're that passionate about, not that many. Yeah,
so he's getting paid to do the thing that makes
him weird. Yeah. Right. Or in my situation, like not that many people are going like not that many people actually want to have
abs because it's just, it's a lot. It's a lot easier to kind of just
not be fat, it's very easy to not be fat. It's a little bit harder to have abs. So most people
It'd be like oh like I'm in good shape. Like, why don't I just go eat these Donuts? It's like well, that's actually not the approach that got me here. What's easier is to apply a sustainable approach day after day and let the results take care of themselves. And so because I was able to do that, I was able to attain the fitness results that I've obtained and all of a sudden, I know about this system that I can teach to other people, it didn't require me to go to school. It didn't require me to study for a test, you know, get stressed out worrying about a grade, it just required me to
Learn about the things I was interested in which then ends up you, if you can monetize it build a business around it, then it feels like a lot of people are doing this. No. Yeah. And starting to understand like the internet's pretty, damn powerful. Yeah, right. And if you are successful in doing it, you're happier as well, right? I mean, I felt like
this when I was working in Corporate America, like last few years I was making a good salary. Like I couldn't tell a random person on the internet. Hey, I make an X and they'd be like damn that's a lot. I felt I never felt like I was my own person and so I started
I worked started working for myself, right? Because especially when you get into like higher income earning brackets, you're always around people who are more
successful than you. And as a competitive person, you're always going to kind of do some
comparisons to be like man, like I wish I was doing that. I wish I was doing that. And so, you know, I always felt like when I was an employee. If I have to do a performance report or a performance review, for somebody on a quarterly or annual basis, I always felt like that was degrading. I always felt like you guys were paying me if you don't want to pay me, you don't have to, but like, I
don't want to, I don't want to
Chain you to show
you why you're paying me the money? You're paying me if you want to stop, stop if you want to keep doing it, do it. But don't make me go through this. What I consider to be like a little bit, like demeaning process and I understand why employers do it. I just felt like as an employee as a little bit too. Meaning to me.
See, I don't think I felt that way. Like they might did the quarterly reviews and stuff, right? Like, I always felt like it was like a feedback session like maybe it depends. I guess on like, who the person coughs - yeah. Just do it. It could be done ten different ways. Yeah. Yeah. I guess.
It's like some people do almost do it in a demeaning way where it's like report to me the information and then I will tell you you know good job bad job versus maybe I was fortunate in that I can think of one specific guy. He very much used it as like okay let's look at the things that like you feel aren't going well and almost always it was like the things I knew weren't going well. He also was like yeah those aren't going. Well let's figure out like how to like improve it and it's almost like check-in points but I guess maybe that's more of like a message to the people who conduct them. Like right. Don't be an asshole.
In the more cynical
way. And the way that I came to look at them after working several years in Corporate America is, oh, these are just a negotiation tactic because if you look at how promotional processes work at large companies, it takes a long time to get promoted from one level to the next level. And oftentimes, there's a talent mismatch, where if you have, there's a lot of people at a certain level, who are way more talented than the people who are Level above them in sports, that would take care of itself, over three weeks, we scrimmage together. You guys are better than those guys. You guys are on the starting team, but in a corporate setting,
there's a financial incentive to keep people underemployed or under titled because if you can keep somebody performing it level 10 paid at a level 6 then you make more money as a company. And so what's what is an easy way to keep people getting paid as a level 6 when they're performing is a level
10? Is you identify various
weaknesses that they have at their present level. So well you're not doing that perfectly, you're not doing that perfectly, you're not doing that perfectly, it doesn't matter that the people three levels above wouldn't be doing
that perfectly either. We want you
Sated on the things that make you imperfect. So don't ask us for a promotion this year because it's going to take 18 months to 24
months. Yeah, I've been on the other side. A. So those conversations you're like I'm pretty sure that's not how this works. But okay, that, that is that's fine. Talk a little bit about the content that you put out. Working people go find it, what are some of the things if they want to learn more about the fitness or Diet stuff, follow me on
Twitter, you know, Alex Feinberg, one on Twitter, a lot of my stuff.
Is hosted on gumroad. Good, third party site. And so you'll see a couple links in my profile. If you want to check out my recipes, check out my training guide, fat loss system and then every once in a while, I'll run a masterclass sale. Keep an eye out for that or you can go and gumroad and just pick it up. Now, if you wanted to and my DMs are open. So if you have questions, whether you want to find me on Instagram, which is same. Alex Feinberg, one, Twitter, I read all my DMs. I ignore the ones that are just trying to solicit me for money, but if you're not doing that,
I will read it and I will most likely
reply just because you don't send one Bitcoin to get to back. Yeah, I have it. I haven't tried that me either but just just to the people who have the same profile,
pictures, you II,
do feel very bad. There's been a couple times where I've been like another play. Something of one time I was in London, and a guy came up to me and an event, he goes pop. He goes, man, we get to meet him personally. He was like, so excited and I was like,
Oh, no, I don't remember. His person is and know, he's like I remember I'm the guy who sent the money and I was like, and I was like, what do you mean? And he had sent like just enough money where I was like, oh, like like I felt like a his pain but not enough where I was like your life's ruined like fighting games. Yeah. Like I like, I want to say like, 7,500 bucks that literally right, like it was enough where I was like, fuck, right? But at the same time I was like, dude, come on.
I
like and so he whips out his phone because I was like what do you mean? And he like these little look and he pulls it out and it was like expert-level scam. Like sequence like Twitter. They commented they said you know message me on Whatsapp then hidden message on WhatsApp then they have like moved him here and then they'd send money and like this whole thing and I just had to break it to him like we're in the middle of an event of people. Everyone else, I hate may come over here not
like I was like
That's not me.
He was like heartbroken but at the same time he was like kind of shook. So what you mean is that you? And I was like, that's like a scam. And so, you know, one just like the social platforms. You have cleaned it up obviously, but to I had never really talked to someone and like what I realized was like they like, socially engineered it. Yeah. They were able to it. There was nothing that they were doing that, like, would have made it obvious outside of the fact that if you knew my life.
And me and like, all right like is very obvious. Like they had no clue what they were talking about.
But they use the social like, engineering components of it to literally get this guy to send money. Yeah, be like, holy
shit. What's up with a move in the conversations to Whatsapp? Like, if you, if you're going to scam people, why can't you scam them on the native platform?
I think it's because on those platforms, what happens is the accounts can get reported and taken away and then all the conversation, like, history is gone, everything you don't have the connection with the people anymore, okay, get him to Whatsapp, like, I don't think I've ever reported a WhatsApp number. Okay, right. Till I get taken down. So,
Try to do is I think they like pop up. They have an account like shotgun blast to as many people as possible. Whoever fails the intelligence test like responds, pull them to Whatsapp quickly. If I lose my Twitter, Instagram, you know, name, your social platform account, then they have my WhatsApp and now they've got the ability to communicate. Yeah. I started getting some of these texts because I seen,
there's a data breach that release my phone number. And so, I get these, I get a text message from someone, like a few weeks ago here. You the golf coach. I'm like, no, I'm a coach, but I'm not a golf coach I go.
My sister must have sent me up. What are you coach? I like reply and then like three replies later. I'm like, this is weird.
Like can we be friends? Like why were you just want to be friends with some random person
who you miss
message and like, yeah, you know, I you seem like we could be friends. Let's take this conversation to tell a grammar to what's up? I'm
like you already have my phone number like what's going on here?
So that makes sense. If they bring it to a third party platform, they can't have their initial conversation. Flagged, I have a friend who
is number of Staff Lee out there because he gets all kinds of crazy ones. Now, he gets something like Chinese and him like he's some time.
Random photos, like, show me one is just like, literally it's just a photo of a woman with a dog. No. Ted like nothing else. Just like a photo and I was like, why are you doing this ending? That he goes on another trying to get me to respond. I don't know what's going on here, but like I'm not responded. Now, that that's like a pretty good idea, but he gets one like every day. Yeah. And I was like, I guess that's like some new scam, but on our sickest. No links. There's no like request to do anything. I guess it's just like a social engineering. Like, can you just enter into a conversation?
Well,
I mean, one of the things that we haven't even talked there is a society as you're going to have a lot of old people who were scammed out of a lot of money, right? If you think it's bad now, like I look at some of these schemes on my that almost got me almost clicked on that link because it's always it gets you in a fearful State. It's never really liked calm like, okay, that's a scam. It's more like fraud alert, click that and you're like, no don't do that. They're just trying to pull my trigger, pull my buttons or push my buttons, but I think like man if my mom every time I see something like
I send it to my parents because I'm like, watch out for this. Because if I were like 20 years older, I probably would have clicked on that
link. You ever got the physical mail spam. There's mail that's come to the office and it's like, you know, they've got a name of a business, they got the address and all the stuff and it's basically like, you know, some crazy claim, whether it's fraud alert or whatever. But physical males, I call this number.
And so I, before I call the number, you know, I was going all I Google the number and it just feels like this number is associated with scams phishing attempts. Like what don't you like? Fuck you guys but like, yeah, 100% people are calling that
number. Well, a lot of times, it's like, guess what happens when you register a business when you register a business that number is found somewhere and some database. And so all these, all these companies are like, oh, if we can send physical mail that mimics, the look of government mail, people think they need to pay us money.
And we don't need to get that many of them to pay us money. So if we just say, oh, you know, you make it seem really official and then, you know, maybe one person out of 30, sends a $50 $75 check. It's like, that's actually a pretty effective, more mail marketing campaign.
That is exactly what happens, right? And whether it's fraud or it's just like you owe us. Yeah, I don't know how that's legal, but they definitely send that male
right? And the more sophisticated ones, you're probably seeing these now I just, I just started getting them like a year ago is people.
All writing letters that look like handwritten letters but
they're not
right and they're like house offers or something like that. It's like this is
no that's a printer. It looks a lot like you hand-wrote that but it's not but that's going to open that's going to increase your open rate. I understand exactly why you're doing that and that's why
everybody needs to learn marketing because if you learn how marketing works you learn how like all
of these 90mm marketed to learn how politics works, you learn how like all these scams
work, you learn how the edge.
Asian system works. It just like, learn marketing and it tells you a lot of
things. The last question that I have for you, future presidents of the United States G of any wild predictions, as to, who could become the president. Like, I mentioned to you that I think that in
probably 5 10, 20 years, the best viable candidates are going to be Comedians. And the reason being is, you know,
by 2030,
anybody who has a public enough image to become elected, president will have
hundreds thousands of hours of content out there on the internet in which he, or she almost certainly said, 1 2 3 4, 10 cancellable things, right? Well, how do you overcome being canceled? It's like, well, if you're funnier than the people trying to cancel you, they can't cancel you. Like it's just not going
to work and so they see Matt Walsh? Yes.
That video I'm shocked. That video didn't get more play on the internet
like a throttled, huh? Probably got throttled.
You said it. Not me. But yeah, for those that don't know. He basically he had a whole. He basically raised the issue around a bunch of the child gender stuff or whatever. Put that put aside what the issue was. But the mob came for him. Yeah. And he made a video and I remember I was scrolling and when I saw the video I was like, oh they got them. Like here comes the apology and I saw
Comment and it was like, this is how it's done and I was like, oh God I click on it and of course he's just standing there. He's I will not apologize. I will not, I was like, oh, okay, this is not an apology video. This is like the middle finger to the online mob video and I was like, wow, they just actually in some weird way, he just became stronger on the Internet by not bending the knee, or kind of, you know, falling
To their their
calls. And I noticed this around the 2008 financial crisis, when a bunch of banking Executives, who clearly did stuff wrong when they would go in and testify to Congress, it's like, oh they none of them are admitting any of the obvious things that they did wrong. I mean maybe the most obvious that like, extremely extremely obvious things, they'll admit. But the simply very obvious things, they will never apologize.
And I started paying
attention to how like leaders function. I started realizing like, oh I'm watching all these
Watching all these politicians, watching all these business, Executives watching the make mistakes, and then also watching them never apologize for any of the mistakes that they make. And these are all very competitive Industries. So if apologizing or effective, you would think that some of the leaders would do it, but none of them do. Oh, that's probably because apologizing, puts you in a worse position and it's probably just more profitable or you can be more successful if you just never apologize for something, even if you're wrong,
except in extreme, extreme extreme
outlier.
Vents, and I think that's, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying Matt Walsh is wrong. I'm just saying the approach he would take would be probably the correct approach, whether you're right, or you're wrong.
Yeah. Yeah. 100%, my two predictions for president, The Rock and Kim Kardashian. Both them are going to be
president. What about Portnoy? No, you don't think he's got it now.
It's not whether he has or not, he wouldn't do it. You wouldn't do it. I think he likes his life too much. Okay. Right. Like the problem.
Is you have to take one of two approaches, you either have to really, really, really understand the like Hollywood, like that whole game, which The Rock. There's nobody better in the world's most recognizable person, you know, globally. All the stuff or to is, you have to have like Decades of experience of understanding how to leverage the attention into like true business, you know, type things. I think Dave's probably I don't know top
I've on the internet like you know I don't know if you saw yesterday, you literally tweeted. It was like, yo, Ilana, you're gonna fix this fucking bottle shooting platform, right? I was like, that's like a Hall of Fame internet move. Like you like only Hall of Famers? No. Right time, right? Place tagum like, bam. We're Off to the Races, right? So like that's like the internet game, but I think we on the internet. Forget like the rock is he goes to other countries and is like mobbed, right? Most people we know on the internet if they go too.
You know, China, people are like only like they don't even realize, that's a person. They should like care about, right? If they're
white them, all them because they probably why
people pay interesting. But like, but if you look at like a Kim Kardashian, the other thing was her and people get all worked up about this, but sex tape reality TV, star entrepreneur, Criminal Justice Reform,
The next jump here is like you try to run for a congress seed governorship likes it. There's something in the political realm and your stone's throw.
Yeah, if you want to be public facing. But um, if they want to have influence, they can also influence behind the scenes, but they
probably want to be publicly said it was their business, right? And Kris Jenner's like yo my daughter became president, you know, we could do. Yeah. There seems to be other families that are profiting a lot from
The administration seat. Yep, on both sides of the aisle. Yeah, we'll leave it there. All right. Alex Feinberg, one on Twitter and Instagram. I appreciate coming with definite again, in future. This is awesome man. Thank you, thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple Spotify or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand-new job in the Bitcoin and crypto industry, we've got you covered head over to the crypto Academy, dot IO my team, and I have been working with the top HR teams
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