Welcome to the Megyn Kelly, show your home for open honest and provocative conversations.
Hey everyone. I'm Meghan Kelly. Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show. We have a lot to talk about today. There's the massive number of schools being moved to Virtual learning despite all. We now know from nearly two years of this pandemic about how safe schools are for children and how damaging it is to them, not to be in them. There are new pushes for vaccine mandates to watch the stupid, right? It's just, it's so stupid. How many?
Going to go through this, you know, that the push for vaccine mandates. Should be easing up right now. You you get the vaccine. You can still get covid especially with Omicron. What are we doing? And there's a whole mix of cultural stories to get to as well. I'm excited for today's guest. We have author host and rapper. Zubi. His life story is fascinating. He has developed an enormous enormous following. He initially made waves on Twitter back in 2019 when he broke the UK with.
Women's deadlift record. That's right. The woman's dead lift record. There's a story behind that and we'll get to that as well as all the news. Zoomy. Thank you so much for being
here. Hey, Megan. Good to see you.
Great to have you. All right. So let's start with the covid madness because now we're seeing, I mean, there was a great piece. I have to say in the New York Times today by David, leonhardt who was on the show, not long ago. Talking about the serious cost to children in in not having school because of the pandemic, these ongoing delays and
Remote learning which we know doesn't work and we just keep doing it. We just keep doing it. It's happening all over the country right now, from Newark to Philly, parts of New York and so on. And the some of these parents are saying should be longer. Shoot should be longer. My child. Shouldn't have to be there. There are risks. And those are the ones who are bringing everyone else down, your
thoughts on it.
Yeah, I think it's crazy and I thought it was crazy from the very beginning of this. One of the things that we found out very early on during the pandemic situation. And this is a huge blessing. This is a massive Silver Lining. And that is that this particular virus is very, very, very mild for children. That's not the case with all viruses. That's not the case with all diseases, but with covid-19, and
Particular kids Breeze through this very easily. I'm not actually aware of a single healthy child anywhere in the world, who has died over the past two years of this particular disease, that's not to say, it doesn't exist. But it is certainly extraordinarily rare hospitalizations or rear any type of severe sickness. So on Etc in that age, demographic is extremely rare. So all of these measures that have been applied to children for this duration of the past two years have been absolutely.
Crazy there, but they've been so detrimental to young people and two kids, the amount of harm that's come to them from this, all socially, in terms of their development, in terms of their health, their mental well-being, their ability to, socialize and even learn how to speak. All of that stuff, has been massively negatively impacted. So the fact that two years down the line, people are still proceeding with this insanity is mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing to me.
Absolutely, no reasonable justification for it. I think as a society and any healthy human society. It should not be expected. That children are the ones making huge sacrifices to make adults feel safe or comfortable. And I'm specifically using the word feel because this is really about feeling, it's not about any type of reality. So I thought it was crazy from the beginning and I think it's even more crazy that anyone in any
Lace is still proceeding with that. Hmm.
My kids are going to school and we're supposed to feel grateful that the school is open. Well, I don't, I don't feel great. No school is supposed to be open. That's that's the default maskless faced faces are the default. That's what's normal. I don't feel like I need to begin every email to the school. When I asked why we still have these plexiglass barriers up. Why are they still Mass? 24/7? Why are they getting yelled at threatened with detention? If the mass goes down below there knows when we all know the masks are
Especially for four kids in school with a. Thank you so much for being open. No, not thank you so much. That's your job. Nobody. Thanks me for sitting behind the microphone every day. Do I? That's my job. I get paid to do this. It's part of the contract. Right? So, it's like, and yet you have teachers like the ones in Chicago. Once again the teachers in Chicago. I'm sorry, but the absolute worst that Union is the worst threatening to walk out on Wednesday because they don't want to work in person.
This is the same group to be, you. Remember, they didn't want to work during the pandemic last year either. And to prove their point. They did the interpretive dance where they lept across the streets of Chicago. To show us how these young able-bodied women were incapable of standing in front of a classroom and teaching. They're at it again.
Yeah, it's insane. It's insane. And I think that, you know, when something goes on for a
A long time. I mean human beings are For Better, or For Worse. People adapt to things very quickly and you know, the process is called hedonic adaptation and people, what is brand-new and is a big change to people. After a matter of weeks. Let alone months people set into that as their normal as their default. So, I think that, now, there are millions of people who are still stuck in this mindset, that nothing is allowed until
Some Authority or official says that it's allowed people are the out there thinking that, you know, masks are the norm or lockdowns are the norm or children not being in school, is somehow the norm or the default position. But as we know and our entire lives on fact, Paul throughout throughout history, this is not the norm. This is not how anybody was living prior to the year 2020. And now by any measure, we are very much at the tail end of this situation. The
Is not going to go away at something. That is going to be endemic. Just like the cold, just like the flu. It's not going to be eliminated. Completely and children have already sacrificed. Everybody has sacrificed, but children in particular, who should not have had to sacrifice to begin with of? I don't know. I don't know what blows my mind. I get annoyed when it's tough particularly to do with children because it's very easy to see, just how detrimental this all has been to them. And I Lord knows how it's going to
Take them years or even decades down the line, but it's very, very clear that there is no upside to doing this. And it's all down side and this is down side on top of downside. And the definition of insanity is doing something over and over, and over again, and expecting a different result, or a different outcome. And I think that the adults and these teachers, and these unions who are pushing for all of this, I've seen in other places where they're forcing children to eat outside in the cold while all this
After eating inside all of that stuff. Yeah. I mean if I were a parent of the these are not, these are not people. I'd feel comfortable with leaving my kids with for multiple hours a day. I think it's an absolute
disgrace right now. You've got this group, National Educators, United on online saying, recklessly opening school buildings. Right now, instead of working to reduce Community transmission is once again, needlessly, putting millions of lives at risk National hashtag.
Two weeks pause now, to protect our community. Are you kidding me for that before? Never kidding me, right? Two weeks to slow the spread. They're really going to rely on that. Then why are these people such cowards? The teachers? I know are amazing. They're strong. They're their leaders. They don't complain. I mean, the teachers are school. I know them. They're, they're happy to be there. They're delighted to be teaching the children. They don't complain about this bullshit. Who are these people, who run these groups? Who are two weeks to slow the spread? Who do they think they're kidding? At this point?
I don't know.
Exact answer to that question, but I think that this is something that has happened over the process of decades. I think over the course of decades, particularly in Western societies. And, you know, I think as societies become prosperous and even decadent and very comfortable people become weaker, people become physically, weaker spiritually weaker physically, you know, mentally, physically, spiritually and all these different aspects. And I think that this has really brought to light.
And just how deep some of that is, I mean, prior to any viral, pandemic, situation. We were already talking about things, like trigger warnings and safe spaces and, you know, everything being hate speech and people needing to be protected from ideas and this and that micro aggressions. And so, to me, this is really sort of logical conclusion, where you've already got people who are in this state of weakness and safety ISM and fear, and paranoia, and hysteria. All of which.
Very overblown. And then a new threat is introduced. And this is where things end up. And I think that whilst it's important to look after ourselves and each other and to take reasonable precautions. When necessary life is full of life is full of risk. It's full of threats. That's always been the case. We take calculated risks every single day, but I think that one of the best things you can do as an individual and as a society,
Is to make individuals stronger. You want people to be strong. If you have children, you want your children to be strong because you're not going to be able to bulldoze every obstacle or challenge out of their way throughout their entire life. And this seems to have been lost in Western society. And it seems to be that instead of trying to make people stronger and more resilient. We've just been trying to Nerf the world, remove, absolutely everything that could be a threat or risk, anything that could offend anybody.
Beautiful potentially cause and so I think we're really just seeing the culmination of decades upon Decades of that mentality and it leads to the situation that we're talking about here.
That's so true. I hadn't really thought of it like that. You know, I've seen the push for safe spaces and I'm sick of it, you know, it's like, you can't as I like that nerve the world, you can't do that. People are going to run into mean people, even if you manage to get everyone in the United States, to be nice to you which isn't going to happen. You're going to go out into the real world and you know, other people are going to be there.
R. And and your right is its kind of the same. When it comes to covid where we are, catering to the least strong denominator, you know, to the weakest most frightened denominator and to me, it makes me angry because what's happened is you've got parents sitting at home who are terrified for no good reason, you know, you got people who are lie, salling their lawns. It's crazy. And and and with the rest of us who are saying, it's just stop it. Like that's not necessary. Let's get back. And and maintaining a
And of normalcy with our kids and with ourselves, then we send our kids to be schools and out into the world. And they're told by parents who are hearing from those other, or by Educators, who are hearing from those other parents, get your dad, your mask up, you know, like the kids are receiving fear from the administrators and so on who have to be on the receiving end of those other parents, right? So it's like one thing, feeds, the other and and unfortunately, we all get sucked down by these terrified non-science.
Based people who, for whatever reason have chosen to live their lives in this cowering
position. Hmm. Well, I think there's been a lot of inversions that are taking place in society and culture and one of those is that things which are not good traits things which are negative traits, or even vices are being promoted as virtues or positives, right? So courage is a virtue but we're living in an age where cowardice has become a virtue. In fact, if you want to show how
Good a person. You are you aren't just scared. But you act, and pretend to be even more afraid than you truly are, right. We're having this weird situation where if you are, just living your life normally, or you are trying to live your life. Normally, or advocate, for liberum, Liberty, Freedom, personal choice, all of that stuff. You're somehow the bad guy. Whereas, if you are the person who is showing just how terrified you are and how committed you are to the cause of.
Being scared and paranoid, then people are now feeling that that makes them a better person that that makes them holier-than-thou and that's a complete inversion. There's no virtue in being or acting absolutely terrified of everything. Being afraid to to go outside, being afraid to see human faces, being afraid to mingle being afraid to teach or to go to school. Any of that. Those things are not virtues. And I believe that in any previous era, that would be greatly frowned upon if not ridicule, but
Somehow this has been inverted and people think that they are better because they are acting more scared than each other. And it's very strange. This has been going on the whole time. And look, I can I can understand the when that when the threat was brand-new going back, almost two years ago. Then I can understand people wanting to take precaution or people having, you know, different worries and concerns about that. But at this point in time, whatever country you're in whatever City you're in,
This this thing is, it's largely over. I don't want to say it's totally over because I have from what I know. The virus itself is like I said, is going to be endemic. It's not, it's not going to disappear. But people there, there are people who just don't want to give this up for various reasons. And I think there's a lot of perverse incentives out there. Both financially, socially even and I think, and certainly, in terms of the people making the decisions. I mean these politicians in the west of me.
Had this kind of power before where they've essentially become these little mini dictators who tell you whether they can, you can go outside or what you have to do. If you how many people you can have in your household, if you're even a labeled able able to, go to work, or to go to school, all of that. And some people are corrupted by power. And once they have that power, they don't want to let go of it and then drops me. Ooh. Yeah. Ooh,
ooh, sorry. Yeah, as soon as he reminds me a little bit of it to me these some of these politicians, these Governors who are drunk on their own power. They seem like
The post 9/11, Giuliani wannabes. So remember how we all felt about mayor Giuliani right after 9/11 forget what you think of him. Now, I realize he's done a lot. Has changed public perception of him on some in some camps, but after 9/11, we all love mayor Giuliani, we called him America's mayor and that's why people thought he could very well be the next president and he handled 911 brilliantly. He was steady in the storm. He was a great leader and and he had said about it the way he performed later.
When asked about how he maintained his calm, he'd always been taught that the more out of control things, get around you. The more important it is to be in control the calmer you must get and that doesn't always work but it worked beautifully that day and I think that these Governors saw a man who was steady in the storm who knew what to do. And the accolades he got and sort of that image is in their own heads. Like I will be the steady in the storm leader. I will be the one who
Stands on the anti-trump, you know, I'm going to. This is how it was about a year ago, right? I'm going to say all the stuff that Trump doesn't say when you take the opposite positions of the ones that he takes. And now even though we now have vaccines and we now have Therapeutics, and we now have a latest variant that is very mild for the vast vast majority of people. It is a cold people. It is its equivalent to a cold. They won't
adjust it. And it's important to say that that is a good thing. Right? One of the one of the most mind-blowing things through.
This has been the fact that there are millions of people who are addicted to the doom and the Gloom and despair. If you give them any type of positive news or anything that could potentially allay their fears or get them to calm down. They actually get angry. There are people who literally want a situation to be worse than it is, which is psychotic to me. I mean, this is great news. It's good news that you're having fewer people of sure more people might be.
Getting sick, but you're having fewer people getting hospitalized. You're having fewer people dying. You're having, you know, that it's the situation now, is infinitely better to how it was a year ago. Let alone a year and a half ago, but to some people that to them is not, it doesn't seem like they're happy about that. They're, they soar somehow want this to keep going on for eternity. And for anyone who is in that mindset. I want to know what is there. What is their exit strategy, you know?
I don't think they have an exit strategy. I think. Right? Thank you. That's right. Yeah, you cannot hide from an Airborne coronavirus forever. It would be like trying to live your entire life without ever catching a cold or a flu. It's not going to happen. You can take your best precautions against it and there are various options for that and then you just have to get on with life. There are other risks and diseases out there. There are. And there are certain to be more variance. Yeah, exactly.
And there's there more things important. There are more important things in life than this one, particular virus. And people need to remember that and people need to reorient themselves. And yep, get back to living their
lives. It's one thing if, you know people, like you like me. Who are saying, we got to live our lives. We've got to go about our business, notwithstanding covid. It's one thing. If we were, if we were saying and the eighty five year, olds need to do the same. They need to get out there. They need to go to the football games. They need it, forget the vax. Like we're not saying that people who
Talk like you do. Like I do are saying we get that. There's populations who need to be protected and all of society shut down for months to protect those people we did. But now we're two years into this thing and we've developed Therapeutics and vaccines and so on and testing though, it's sparse. And so, we now need, we, those of us who are not in these high-risk groups need to get on with our lives and we need to stop pretending.
Like people who are under the age of 30 face, any real risk from this virus because they don't unless they have an identified comorbidity. They don't they're safer even unvaccinated than somebody like I who am 51 am with the double vaccine and the booster. Okay, that's the truth, but it's maddening trying to convince people in the states where I spend my time, New York, Connecticut to see the truth. It's like walk me.
That dude is De santis have like magical children who are able to resist the the vaccine, and those schools, the way, you know, New York can or what about the kids in, London, right? Like are your British, are you? Okay? You're British. You were a reason Saudi Arabia? Okay. So what I want to get to London, are they magical children? How are the magical children of London? Able to not wear masks and and not have huge transmission rates in the London schools. Those are not big properties. They're on top of each other. Same way, the New York City kids are
But they're leaving leading very different lives.
Yeah, I mean the whole thing got politicized very early. I mean I was in the when I was in the USA. I went to 10 different states over the summer, and the Autumn period and the variation between places like Texas, Tennessee and Florida versus places. Like California, Hawaii, New York, and Maryland was absolutely mind-blowing. There was two completely different realities and this is several months ago, and it's all political.
Honestly at this stage it's so it's political. It's social, it's gone. This has nothing to do with science anymore. Unless you're talking about political science and psychology. It's got nothing to do with that. I would argue it hasn't for a very long time. You can look country to Country City to city state to state, and you can see the, you can see the results, right? We're not speaking. Theoretically, you can even within the USA, you can look at half the country and see what's going on. You can look at the other half of the country. See what's going on. You can look
At numbers, you can see what's happening on the ground. And it makes it blindingly obvious that all of these ridiculous mandates and restrictions and this. And that not only are they an effective but they're totally unnecessary. If that were not the case, then places like Texas, Florida, Tennessee, South Dakota, whatever they be. They would have been interrupting. There would be an on fire for the past more than one year and that is not happening. And instead of people seeing that and going. Oh, okay. Maybe we can relax a little, they're taking
That is some kind of cue that they need to double down even harder. And I think that's purely political.
You've got weird indoctrination happening in places. There was an article about the Rose Parade. Okay. There's a New Year's Rose Parade. It happened this past weekend and it's basically, you know, there's a Rose Bowl, football game between this year. It was the Ohio State Buckeyes in the Utah Utes. And they were going to have a parade after the fact and I guess they did but they
Made a couple of modifications to be number one, the Kaiser Permanente float, you know, they have the floats in the parade. They decided not to put 20 Frontline medical Heroes riding on or walking alongside of their float races. Like they didn't want medical personnel to be associated with being out like near a crowd. And then the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. Received some criticism in connection with its float as it featured a robot nurse with a gigantic.
Needle ready to administer vaccines. Their aim was to encourage equity and Global vaccination. And I have to tell you, this reminded me of, I have seen the picture. I'm not going to share the picture because my friend sent it while at her child's School play. But in New York City, my friend went to the child's School play and what they were treated to was all these little kids on stage with big fake needles and big.
Fake signs supporting the Pfizer and moderna vaccines and then this little like shame tent for the unvaccinated. But mean sighs about the I swear to God, these are single digit kids. These are, you know, elementary school. Kids, it it's indoctrination right from from the Rose Bowl floats. What do we have? My my producers telling me what? All right. Yeah. We got a clip. Okay, let's
watch. Okay, Rose Parade, float, slip, important messages amongst the flowers.
And the seeds and the AIDS Healthcare Foundation. Float is using this futuristic landscape to encourage equity and Global vaccination. And treatments for covid-19 robot nurse ready to administer vaccines. And she gets her orange color from
dehydrated carrots and orange.
Lentils, and her work isn't needed for the people participating in the parade today or attending the parade in the grandstands. Everyone has to show proof
of vaccinations.
Yeah, and it's also the winner of the queen award for the most
outstanding presentation of roses.
Wow, every year they come with a different theme, something really relevant, really, really important. So we very much appreciate the you think. So, really, really important. And for the people listening, who can't see, it's an absurd flow with this. Looks like a red robot. Who's the? She's holding the needle. It's going up and down up and we've lost our bloody Minds.
Yeah, I'm not I'm not going to say we I'm going to say they involved in
this and have no wish to be. If I ever went to my kids play and I saw one of my children standing up there with the fake vaccine needle, touting like, praising moderna and Pfizer and shaming people who don't want it to get the vaccine. I think I would storm the stage. I would literally storm the stage. I'm already thinking about storming, some of my kids sport events where they're being forced again to wear.
Asks, during the playing of sports. There's going to be some storming. I think I'm ready to storm.
Zubi. Yeah. Do it. Megan do it. You got my full support on that, but it's completely crazy. I mean, one thing I'm always sensitive to and something I notice is when people start behaving or doing things that are totally unprecedented right now. What's completely unprecedented here is this response and their reaction. That's the what is brand-new.i.
I mean our entire lives and well before them. There have been there have been viruses. There have been coronavirus, has there been diseases? There have been vaccines. There have been masks. There have been all of these things have always existed, but this whole culture and pseudo religion and Cults that has been created in some places, especially when I'm seeing what's going on in some parts of blue State America. Around all of this is completely unprecedented the behavior.
Very strange. It's extraordinarily cultish. It is Polish, you know, it's very weird. And, like I said, all of these things have previously existed and we just, you know, we just dealt with them and things were normal. There was no bullying, or shaming or coercing or massive virtue signaling around any of this stuff. People just live their lives and we got on with things sometimes, you know, we sometimes we get sick. Sometimes we need to take some time off sometimes.
Someone gets a disease, this happens that happens and none of that is new. But what is totally new is? Just like I said, just the paranoia and the hysteria and the way that people are viewing each other in the hostility around, that, in some areas, but then also, just this, this, I don't know that this Behavior around whether it's the masks, or it's the vaccines, or whatever. It's just, it's just weird to me. That's that's what's very weird to me. It's just like, look, like people do their thing, too.
What you need to do to make yourself be or feel or feel safe, right? People should have access to whatever they need in terms of in terms of medicines, in terms of PPE, whatever it is, but that's not what should be running a
society, right? You don't get to mandate that I do it too. That's fine. You do you but you're right about the cultish, Ness. I mean, I've done a lot a lot of Stories on Cults over the past five years and the lion is a ssion of
of one man, fauci very culty. The ostracism ization of non-believers, you know, the people who aren't you you're out of their little Club, not that we want to be in it, but I'm just saying you're authorized not just if you're anti-vaccine, but even if you're just anti-vaxxer mandate, that's that are other arises you you're someone to be feared.
You've seen they changed the definition, right?
Yes, that you're now in anti-vaxxer if you're just opposed to the
Mandate. Yep.
Yeah, so now the majority of the world now fits into that category,
right? I saw I did see that now is like, this is outrageous. So I got, I got the double vax. I got the booster unlike Nicole Wallace. I don't feel the need to run to the television camera and say I've got three. I'm a fauci groupie. And I've got
all the fish. I haven't seen yourself. He's Megan. You need to push yourself. He's up
over one. Never never. I didn't, I wouldn't, I don't agree with it. So, it's like, okay, fine. You do your thing. Take care of yourself as you see fit, but you don't have to other
Arise people who make different choices than you and you don't know what their private reasons are. You don't know, you know, I had on the gal, from ESPN, who got pressured? She wound up, Allison Williams. Who got pressure. She had to leave because she wouldn't get the mandatory vaccine. I have her on. I'm asking, like what's so why, why was it important? You not to get it? She said, I'm trying to have a baby. I'm like, this is probably none of my business. This is not my boy. Am I hearing this? Why am I even asking this right? But again, that's put in this
position. Yeah. And again, that's that's unprecedented. Isn't it? Like since
Do we ask that information of other people? I meet it's rude to even ask somebody how much money they earn but somehow they're waiting Kate. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But somehow, it's okay to ask them all of these questions. It's extremely, it needs to be unnormalized. Right? Like this is not normal behavior. It should be stigmatized. It's not, it's not proper and it's a massive intrusion on people's privacy. I mean, when it comes to medical stuff in,
Like people could have all sorts of reasons why they do or they don't do something but really it's not, you know, unless unless you're somebody's doctor or you know Confidant or something. It's really it's really not anybody's, really not anybody's business.
It reminds me of a friend. I used to have just post law school a woman and and I was like mid-twenties and maybe it was a little later. I don't know. We were like late 20s. Anyway, she used to get annoyed because that's about the age when people start looking at
Like other people's moms and saying, like, we're not married Mary, what? Where's your partner? And she had a great response to them after a while, which was they say, you know, why aren't you married weren't with somebody and she'd say because there's something wrong with me. I loved it. And I think they do things. If somebody asked you like, oh, why wouldn't you get the vaccine? You should come up with something like oh, you know, it conflicts with my chlamydia medication or like something just outrageous. So he is going to embarrass them.
It's the way forward. Honestly. It's the way forward. I'm I'm so I've been. I've been so ready. I mean I've been living as normally as possible throughout this whole thing, but I'm so it's exhausting. You know, I do think we are reaching a point of exhaustion globally with this particular issue. I think that the the juice that they're trying to squeeze out of it, is running out. And again, this is a good thing, right? This is the
Is good. Let's just go back to. It's funny because I think I feel like in 2019, people thought that the world was crazy and 2019 and people were talking about clown world, and the world going mad, and everything being crazy. But I think that people would quite happily return to the times of people, you know, eating Tide Pods, and licking ice cream and putting it back in the freezer and whatever else nonsense was going on in 2019.
All right. And speaking of 2019. This is when zubi I think became a star. This is when you use.
Took off as an international personality and we'll talk to him about how that happened in just a moment. Also. We'll get to the anniversary of January 6th. And the media's Obsession Obsession and it is very clear. The Democrats are really looking forward to an opportunity to talk about that for weeks instead of covid and all
the other stuff, the economy that's
happening and then we'll get to the transgender swimmer breaking records that you pain is zubi. Dipped a toe into this controversy back in the day again, back in 2019.
So what does he make of it? Lots of go over. Don't go away.
Bisou bisou.
Oh, yeah. Zubi. Zubi. Zubi. Zubi. Zubi, zubi. Have you heard that song soupy soupy zoo.
I have, I think I came on stage to it. Once in fact,
so I loved that show. Mad Men with that was Don, Draper's second wife, Megan and it's a real. It's got It's one of those ear worms. It stays in your head. And as soon as I heard you were coming on him like he did that when he does, it's gonna be your theme song, although I realize you have your
Great music. You don't need Don Draper's wife. Okay, so let's talk about you and how we all got to know you because I first came to know you on Twitter and I was like this guy makes so much sense. I just want to follow him because it's wonderful when you find commonsense people and people like you who can sort of separate the wheat from the chaff and like, get right to the heart of an issue. And I've noticed it on covid. I've noticed it on Race. I've noticed it on the trans issues. So you're not afraid to go to the place that hurts which I can relate to. And I like,
And one of the things you first did that with was the infiltration of trans women into biological women's sports and what an unfair advantage that can create for the trans woman and how no one for too long was really calling it out. You know, now we got to this place where if you do call it out, you have to be terrified. For example, in the case of the UPenn, swimmers, the women that they might not get a job, these women, they don't want Leah, Thomas, who is a man up until two years ago.
And swimming is a man swimming on their team because the best they can get his second place. They know, it's unfair, and if you look at Lea Thomas, Lea Thomas, looks like a man. She has long hair, but she has the body of a man because she was living as a man for the first 20 plus years of her life. She only transitioned. She only did one year of testosterone therapy and she didn't lose all of her physical advantages. Okay. So you take us back to February of nineteen and you are making music and also doing social commentary, and what was it about?
About the dead lifting. The women's deadlifting record that attracted you to got. We have a clip but I want you to set up like what got you to this place?
Well, I've been following this issue for several years. I think it kind of came onto my radar in a, fairly strong way. Maybe around 2014 or 2015, and it was something I'd kept an eye on at this time. I generally keep my views on thoughts on socio political and cultural.
Real issues to myself as a musician. I was kind of in that position that I think a lot of people are in that. I don't really want to rock the vote or weighed in on certain things, but then due to a host of factors in around 2018. I just started publicly voicing and sharing some of my thoughts and ideas more, which a lot of people latched onto. And then, the day I posted that video. I'd actually seen multiple stories coming out of the USA about this exact thing happening. I'd seen stories about biological.
Males competing in women's Athletics and I think wrestling as well and absolutely dominating and I'm really good at deadlifting and out of curiosity. I just Google search, the British women's deadlift record to see what it was in my weight class. And I believe it was around 210 kg. My personal best is actually 25 to 35 Hundred. So I was like hounds. Yeah, so I was oh, wow, okay, I can beat That by over 100 pounds and I just had that video on.
Phone already from one of my training sessions. Some people think it's from an actual competition. It's just from one of my training sessions. So I just posted it up with the caption saying. Something along the lines of I keep hearing about how biological men have no strength advantage over women in 2019. So watch me destroy the British women's deadlift record without trying PS identified as woman. While lifting the weight, don't be a bigot. So I just posted that up. I had about 18,000 followers at the time. I didn't expect anything crazy out of it. And the next thing I knew.
This video went bananas by the time. I woke up the following morning. It had over half a million views. It had a million views the following day and it just kept going and going getting retweeted and going viral all around the world and then the media started catching on to it. And I started doing a lot of interviews, talking about it.
Because when you see the truth of something that you're not allowed to talk about staring you in the face, it's cathartic. It's it makes people feel like yes, I'm not.
Insane lunatic. People are gaslighting me. This is unfair. Here's a bit of the totally viral zubi
video.
Okay, and so for our listening audience, you see lots and lots of Weights. What? I understand was 525 pounds, and they're on a barbell and zubi bends over and lifts it, and then drops it and crushed, the women's world record as a lot of men who are
Good debt, dead weight lifters could do right. Have you thought about going for gold and crossing over? Because you could do it.
Yeah, I mean look maybe to end this complete stupidity. What needs to happen is all the top male athletes in the world. Should just transition next year and completely demolish, all of women's sports and take all of their records and maybe that's what is going to be needed for people to actually, you know, take their heads out of the ground and go. Hmm. Okay. Maybe this is a bad.
Bad
idea. You're exactly right. Thank you for saying that because my husband is a big tennis fan. He wrote a whole book about tennis and he he's been saying as soon as you get like a biological male who now identifies as female and as a trans woman who decides to play an actual women's tennis, right? And gets to the US Open and crushes, Serena Williams or Naomi Osaka. This will change there is because they can't Serena Williams cannot come close to beating the best.
Men's tennis player in the world or even, I don't even the top hundred
lose to the dingy lose to the 230th yesterday and 30th ranked male player.
I don't remember the number, but he was way the hell down the list. She can't beat him. And she is at least one of the top three, you know, American tennis player. We're tenants, not just American female, tennis players in the world. So, okay, let's put our money where our mouth is, if we really want equality in the sports. Let's just not make the UPenn swimmer. Suck it up. Let's let's put it in every single.
Sport this Dynamic even the ones where women are going to lose huge money, huge endorsements, right? Like let's see how the woke crowd likes that especially when you have women of color who have overcome a lot in their lives, you know, like not totally gender, gender. Equality, not totally race equality, and a lot of the upbringings that people have gone through that. They overcome all those obstacles. They get to something like the US Open to Wimbledon to the Australian Open is whatever and they lose because some guy was playing as a man, two years.
Go as suddenly identified as woman. Let's see what they have to say that.
Yeah, and man, there's so much stupidity going on with this whole thing. Firstly. It blows my mind that were that were actually talking about this and that this is a genuine debate that exists. But one of the most obvious things to the onion uninitiated is why is this only happening in One Direction? Why is it that male athletes? Have no concerns about female athletes transitioning to men and taking their records and beating them?
Right? If there were really no Advantage. Why is it only in one way? Why is this only impacting women sports? Just that simple thing. Blows the entire notion out the window. You don't even need to get into the biological reality. Just that simple heuristic shows how silly it all is, and everyone knows it silly. I don't actually believe that. There's anybody. I genuinely do not believe that there is anybody. Who truly believes this stuff? I think everybody is pretending even the
Will advocating for it. I think they're pretending they all know that there's a biological difference. In fact, what they are doing, would not even make sense. If there were no biological differences between men and women,
like the whole thing had to make sense. We had a couple of experts on as we had the girls in. In Connecticut. The runner's high school girls who were doing really well, and they started getting crushed because similar situation to what we're seeing at UPenn boys, who had been running as boys, who had been middling at best to cross over, into the female track world and
Started crushing these girls, and they would include a girls of color, you know, good to just like my point is simply girls who the left would normally be embracing as like, look at her. She's getting it done, you know, notwithstanding our terrible Society, she overcame all the obstacles, but everything gets trumped by trans. I mean, honestly like in the hierarchy of like, you know, things the woke loves or wants to victimize trans is number one, right? Like so that's why Dave Chappelle even though he's a black man. Maybe he's got
That's one strike against him because he's a man. But anyway, he that's why he gets completely killed, right because he took aim at the trans community and that's why we can have, you know, young black girls. Like the one I interviewed, or whatever, in Connecticut, or elsewhere, take it on the chin, after working their whole lives for a goal. If they lose to, somebody who happens to be trans because we're just not allowed to talk about
fairness. Yeah, by the way, those girls should not compete any woman who is planning to compete and there's a biological male standing.
Being at the start line or in the ring next to her or whatever. They should all refused to compete. All those swimmers. They should, they should refuse to compete. People on this personality and people will compete in, guess they should. All they should all just stand together and say, no, we're not doing this. We're not competing against male athletes, right? That simple variable need to stand together. This is the problem. People need to, when something is wrong, when you see something, that is clearly obviously wrong. You need to say something you
To do something. You can't just keep going with the flow and thinking that magically and miraculously things are going to change. No, they're not going to change these people need to stand together. And I'm not even just saying, in this case. This is actually a pretty easy one. Because you're talking about a team sport. So if you've got multiple competitors there and you don't need to be the one isolated person who stands up, you know, you don't need to be the one mailed it sticks out and gets hammered. You can all just stand together and say, you know, what? No, we're not doing this then.
When you know, what are they going to do? They're going to call everybody transphobic. They're going to call everybody names. It's like who cares? You know, I think all these women and girls whoever it is. They need to stand together and stop allowing men to just smash through all their records and Destroy them in swimming, and Athletics and all these other sports. Like, this is silly. I Can't Believe It's Gone on for several years and people need to stop being cowards about it, and just stand up and put an end to it. As far as I'm
concerned. Good point. I know trans men.
Who, you know, they transition from biological women and they don't turn into men. They don't, they don't look anything like someone like you, you know what I mean, who has natural body mass and has natural family, you get hair, and you get a little bulkier, and your voice goes down in your face, looks different in, for sure. But like, you do not wind up looking like, Tom, Brady and I just don't and you will never pose a threat in the athletic field to a man in the way that a biological man would to a biological female after he transitions to female.
Well, alright, Zoo, be staying with us. We have so much more to go over. He's got some great stories and some crazy stuff has happened to him over the past couple of years, which will get into. And remember, you can find the Megyn Kelly show live on SiriusXM Triumph, Channel 111 every weekday at noon East. If you haven't checked out Triumph channel, it's fun. You should check. I'd say my favorite channel on Sirius even before I got on it. I swear, so you'll love it. And you can also check out the full video show and clips by subscribing to our YouTube channel with that's youtube.com, slash Megyn Kelly.
On fire right now. My goodness, my team pointed out to me that our opening monologue. Yesterday has gone. It's not zubi viral, but it's viral and it's all about 400,000. That's a lot for us in a day. We only have, I don't know. 250,000 subscribers 50 to 60,000. You could help us get up to 300,000, if you would be so kind, we're still building. We just launched It Anyway. Check it out. Because it's all about covid. And the realization. My people like Nicole Wallace, but there's no outrunning it.
Just gonna have to live with it. And by the way, you can also check it out on podcasts. That's how we got started. That's how we made. Our name audio podcast at Apple Spotify Pandora Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast for free to go to Apple and leave a comment. I will read it. I've read them all. And while you're there, you can see our full
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that.
It's time for another edition of. You can't say that. Or think that or do that? Oh wait, this is America today. We're actually going around the world to Australia where the language policing has reached new heights. This is not about the insane covid, lockdown restrictions. There are no. Today. We're talking about sharks. You see sharks have feelings too. I think, who knows. But what?
Do know is they have been quote? Unfairly demonized? Yes. There is a national shark attack database in Australia called the Australian shark attack file that is now being renamed the shark incident database. So the word attack is removed. In fact, the word attack is gone from the site entirely and replaced with more precise terms like B, interactions and - and
Counters. Did you have a negative encounter with a shark perhaps that shark looked at you in a way that felt inappropriate? Yes. Yes, shark attacks are rare. You are more likely to be struck by lightning or killed while driving then to be bitten by a shark. So the stigma of a shark attack is unnecessarily, harmful to the reputation of these kind fish. They're misunderstood. You see, one shark exhibit manager. In Australia said movies.
Led to a harmful portrayal of sharks. These poor creatures aren't trying to attack you. They just don't know better. Say, their Advocates. This is a real quote sharks don't have hands. They have teeth and in order for them to feel around their environment, they use their mouth and unfortunately that can have bad consequences on people, but it's quite rare. Yes. It can very bad consequences. Plus. She said, they can't see very well. They have a disability, you see?
See, they can't see very well. You shark hater. So just hold your hatred. So the next time you go to the beach and joke about a shark attack. You better think twice because at least down under in Australia, you can't say that. So tell it to Peter benchley and the maker of Jaws, by the way. I do. Peter, benchley actually wound up. Saying he felt bad that his book and the, the movie Jaws that was based on his book, unfairly demonized shark sharks, because they don't generally want to eat us.
But they do attack and kill us. And I don't think the parents of those who have been killed or the loved ones would be comfortable calling it a negative encounter shark attack, gets it done and grown-up. People can understand that. Not all sharks mean to eat us. We'll be right back with zubi right after this quick break.
So zubi, let's talk for a minute about January 6th. It's in two days. And to me, it's so obvious. The media loves to talk about this, the Democrats love to talk about this. I mean, I think most Americans understand this was a very unfortunate day and episode in our history that we don't really want to keep reliving over and over the people who were on Capitol Hill, that day are being held responsible. They're being prosecuted. And we've, most of us have kind.
I've moved on right Trump's no longer and office. If he runs again, we'll deal with that at the voter box, whether you're a pro or anti but like the obsession and the media's, they love it. They're there. It's like when I we have a puppy, we have two dogs, one is two and a half. We have a puppy and when we let the dogs out in the lawn, I mean, the dog that the puppy he runs to the dirtiest corner of the lawn and he just rolls around in the dirt and the leaves and whatever the hell else is in there. And he loves it. He enjoys it. You can see it's like, oh God,
Strut. Anyway, that's the media and January 6th. They enjoy it. Right? Why do they enjoy it so much.
Well, what's that phrase? If it bleeds, it leads, right? They the power and the control and the money that comes from keeping people in a permanent fear Loop or a permanent negativity. Loop of fear, anger, outrage, all of these things, you know, due to the nature of The Human Condition, which is very sensitive.
Perhaps more sensitive to negativity than to positivity these things make money. They Garner attention, they get people paying attention and they also make it easier to push an agenda or to control people. You keep people fighting you, keep people divided. You keep people distracted by various types of nonsense. You refuse to move on on certain things whilst you move on very quickly on other things, which are actually far more.
Important and for more catastrophic and deadly even in some circumstances, and that's just the way the game is played. I think that it's the way the incentives are laid out, and I don't think it's something that's totally new, but I think it's something that has really become more exaggerated, especially over the past decade in particular.
It's to me, it's so hypocritical because you see CNN and these other channels completely lionizing. The members of the Capitol Hill Police who,
Hurt that day and that they couldn't care. Less about law enforcement. They said nothing as law enforcement was attacked her and in some instances killed during the BLM Riots of the preceding summer. They didn't care at all. They're just lionizing. These guys because they think it makes Trump, and in particular his supporters, not all Republicans, but they've expanded it to anybody who's on the right. Look bad. You know, they think it's a chance to make them look bad. And it was not a good day for Trump or his supporters.
And I don't know, maybe not for Republicans either. I don't know. But to me, it's just so hypocritical and and the way they talk about it. There's a woman over on CNN. Juliet. Khayyam, right CNN. She's on and she was interviewed recently about January 6th. And I would say the way she talks about it embodies the way most of the left thinks about it. Here's that moment. Watch this as we gear up for 16. Anniversary coverage was posting my take. Then many criticized this for calling Trump. The leader of a terror movement who uses
Violence or threat of is an extension of politics after a year. I think I was too kind. So, if you think you were too kind to calm a extremist leader, then, what would you call him now? Well, he continues to be the leader of an organization that uses violence, or the threat of violence to disrupt Democratic processes. That is Terrorism. And I think, you know, we tend to focus on different pieces of the Post January 6 world, so we have the election systems and the states and the fight.
Is Over States and voting rights? We then have the investigation, the January 6, and then all the cases that are going on against people who work in the capital, but I think we sometimes forget that what sort of connects everything is violent. That's what, that's what, connects everything. He's the leader of a terrorist group and then you got the New York Times, a weighing in saying with a headline that reads as January 1 every day is January 6th. Now, every day talking about how Republicans are,
Working to change laws to advance the goals of the January, 6th rioters, hundreds of bills have been proposed in nearly three. Dozen laws have been passed that Empower state legislatures to sabotage their own elections and Overture overturn, the will of the voters and go on and on from there. So every day is January 6th Trump is the leader of a terrorist cult and this is why he must be stopped in January, 6th hearings and investigation must go on in perpetuity until somebody Zoo be somebody other than
The actual rioters I guess is held to
account.
Yeah, I can speak very much as in as an outsider on this one. I'm a non-american. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a republican. I am someone who loves the USA, but one thing with the USA is that everything is so hyperbolic and partisan and exaggerated, and he gets exhausting like, it gets so much. I mean, it's great. That people become passionate about things.
Things. But when it's always this US versus them and left versus right and Red vs. Blue, and this, and that it becomes a, I don't know. It's very, very exhausting, especially considering that most people are not sort of firmly in any one of these camps. I mean, the notion that there's only sort of to political views, or parties country of over 330 million people, is mind-blowing to me to begin with, but as someone who doesn't have a dog in the fight, but as someone who has lots of American
Hours and friends and supporters. I don't know. I just wish that there could be less of this, you know, dishonest super ultra partisan hackery. I don't think it's good for the nation. I don't think it's good for. I don't think it's good for individuals. And I don't think it's good for the collective society, as either, you know, always putting people at each other's throats whether it's a long political.
Litical lines or racial lines, or this lines, are that lines? I think it's it's something that has always existed to, to some degree for sure, but it really seems like it's been a up over the last few years, and I think that if it goes unchecked, then it's going to result in more disruption and more polarization. And ultimately, and more violence because there's there's only three ways you can resolve any conflict. You can talk it out. You can separate. You can.
Separate segregate divorce or you can physically fight. Those are the only three ways to solve any type of conflict. And when number one is getting, shut down, people are not allowed to speak or fearful to speak or people are being deep lat formed or censored or ridiculed or this or that for their very basic and moderate ideas. Then that's a problem and then, you know, unless you want to have a full on secession and split into multiple countries, then you certainly want to avoid to.
And so number one needs to always be be held open because otherwise, that's when you end up with, that's when you end up with violence. That's when you end up with these protests turning into riots which are then turning into people getting murdered and people getting hurt and people fighting in the streets and this and that and then when you have dishonest people in the media who were just throwing more fuel on that fire, I think it's deeply irresponsible, you know, and I think that it's important for all Americans. Whether people are in the media or in,
All it takes are outside of it to just do their best. To bring the temperature down a little bit. I feel like the temperature is really really heating up and some people would like to try to blame this on one individual or one politician or anything like that. But I think it's actually a sort of collective responsibility and Duty for that to happen, but I think that it needs to start at an individual level and I don't know it would that that's one of the things I look at in the states and
Here are, you know, I'm in the u.k. Right now and in the UK, of course, there are, there are certain issues with politics and with the media and so on, but it's not as hyper polarized. And hyper-partisan. I think that's something that's relatively unique to the USA and Away.
Great. Oh, lucky us. I'll say a couple points in response to that. Yes, completely overstated. One of my beefs when they were talking about when the media was reporting on, this was several outlets from The Huffington Post to keep somebody from the Washington Post.
Just somebody ABC, I could go on. We refer to this as worse than 9/11 January 6, as worse for 911 with 3,000. Americans were slaughtered before our very eyes, including children. How dare they, how dare they? And I don't care how many times they try to shame me. They say, I downplay it. No, I I'm not downplaying it. You're overplaying it. It was bad. It was embarrassing. It was a disgrace. It wasn't anything close to 911 and shame on anyone who makes that comparison.
But secondly, I would say not only is it bad for the country? It's bad for Democrats. I don't think the Democrats want to continue talking about Donald Trump. I think the media does I think Democratic leaders want to talk about him because he's become their Boogeyman. But I think most Democrats would like to move on. They would like to find their next round leader. I think they've realized it's unlikely to be Biden or Harris or Peter Budaj. At least next time around and they're worried about what's going to happen at the top in 2024 as they should be.
And this constant, like we got to go back to Trump is just a card America. Other than his core supporters is ready to move on to the next topic, right? The next topic of conversation. So I think they do this at their own Peril. I don't think even the Democrats are in the mood for months and months. More of Donald Trump Maga and January 6th recriminations, but we'll see because I think the ship has sailed they're going to pay a price for this come come November. Let me ask about text, template censorship, which you mentioned that's been in The News Room very much this.
Week, we had a couple of issues, Marjorie Taylor green. Now permanently banned from Twitter. I guess. She also said that she was banned from Facebook. My Facebook says, that's not true. She's a, she's a congresswoman and she her official Congress person's account is still open, but her personal account permanently closed on Twitter. They say for misinformation. She questioned the the safety of the vaccines said that they've killed. A lot of people, something to that effect. So she's gone permanently. So is Trump permanently from Twitter. And then you have
Dr. Malone who went on with Joe Rogan and that episode and he's the guy who helped invent the MRNA text vaccine technology. He gave an interview to Brett, Weinstein and Brett Weinstein. Had troubles with this. To I had Brett Weinstein on the show and some are really debriefed him about it. We went over, you know, the claims made and so on was naughty platformed and the episode stands. If you want to go, listen to it, but I'm concerned that the Joe Rogan episode was pulled by YouTube. It's still on Spotify were Rogan showed. Now.
Now lives, but more and more big Tech is said, there are certain things. You may not say you may not question vaccines. You certainly may not, you know, as the inventor of the MRNA vaccine get out there and you know, cast doubt on the power and the motives of big Tech and I've said from the beginning, zubi, I think some of this as you just alluded to was baked into the minds of the people storming on January 6th, some of this distrust like every time we censor somebody even if they say stupid shit, you know, like
It's
it leads to a distrust and sort of the previously accepted mainstream Avenues of information. And so it's only a downward
spiral. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, look, our societies are supposed to be based on some certain basic principles such as Liberty, Freedom, treating people equally human rights dignity. So on and so forth. And people also need to remember that
Yes, of course, Anna private company. An actual private company. I mean that whether these are truly private companies at this stage is is certainly debatable. We understand that they have a right to have terms and conditions and to have policies and things like that. However in the spirit of Liberty and freedom and just overall human decency, you need to allow people to talk and to converse and to debate when you are censoring and banning and d platforming, one of the someone.
Has a patent 49 mRNA M9 mRNA vaccine-related. Peyton. Someone who is instrumental dating back to the 80s, and even creating these vaccines that people are now worshiping. And that's someone who you are trying to censor for speaking openly about it. That that's a huge problem and he's not the, he's not the only doctor that has been been silenced on this issue. Let alone the only individual but you know,
oh these organizations and people who make these decisions, also need to understand, you know, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. And when they do this, they are completely destroying trust in their own institutions. One thing about the truth is that the truth is not afraid of Confrontation. It's not afraid of debate. It's not afraid of questions and Challenge. And if you want to talk about science, there's nothing more important with in science than being able to ask questions.
Means being able to challenge things. If someone is telling me that they are an expert on any given subject and they become indignant. When I ask them a question or try to stop me from asking a question or two for making a remark or just having a conversation and debate about it. Then you entirely lose trust in that individual and you also lose trust in the expertise as well. And I really think they're over playing their hand with all of this and I think it creates a huge opening for a potential competitor.
Deters, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it would be fantastic. If people in general could, just go back to this concept of being able to support people's right to speak. Whether you agree or you disagree or you have questions. Look. None of us have the absolute truth On Any Given subject, but if we all want to become wiser and smarter and more knowledgeable and more empathetic than we do that by conversing with each other, if you want to understand,
The else's perspective or somebody else's concerns, or you really want to know what's going on. Then you need to be able to talk to people. You need to be able to listen to people. And, you know, I think the reason why someone like Joe Rogan's show is doing multiples of what any buddy in the mainstream. Media is doing is simply because he understands this and he's open to being honest and asking hard questions and really going in-depth on all of these various issues and people should not be afraid.
Afraid of conversation itself. Like I said, if we're not able to have these conversations and we're not able to speak honestly, then ultimately, it is going to end up in various forms of physical violence or separation. And I don't think that's what people. I don't think that's what most people want. I think most people are able to get on with each other and day-to-day life. We do it and all these cities and states and countries, every single day. And people are not out there constantly fighting in the streets. So, as I said before, I think the that that temperature
General just needs to come down. People need to return to their senses and we need to be able to be open and honest and have conversations and have debates on all of these important
issues. They of course only ever do it. The one way, I mean, it may be not only ever but 90% of the time it's Banning some conservative or somebody who's a heterodox thinker pushing back on. One of these main lines. We've been fed whether it's about the origins of the covid virus or something about the vaccines man. That's one thing. You cannot touch you say something.
- about the vaccines, they will ban you and it's insane because people know spotify's not Banning Joe Rogan. So they know there's a way of getting the information. So that's just going to drive them to Spotify. It's not going to make them. You do not get the info. Right? And so what is YouTube? Think it's accomplishing me, even when we talk about covid on this show like yesterday show, they would slap a warning on it on YouTube, like for covid information. Go to the spa. Okay, that's fine. I, it's YouTube site. They can do that. That actually doesn't bother me. I guarantee you absolutely nobody Clips clicks on that.
Absolutely not. I guarantee you not a single person Clips clicks on it. But if it makes YouTube feel better. Fine, it's their platform. However, that's as far as it should go, you know, even if they wanted to do a link to, hey, here's somebody on the left. Who's got a different point of view. I'd be fine with that too. But to remove it altogether as though like these words cannot be spoken and and I would even go so far so far as to say, yes, I see this situations where they should do that. I was totally in favor of removing.
Moving the Isis videos on how to make a homemade bomb. What, what is the purpose of leaving that on there? What's the positive to society and leaving that there? But you can't say the same about a discussion with dr. Malone, come on and yet they grow and they grow. And every time a conservative tries to start a new platform. It seems weak and Meandering and not all that hopeful. Even the one that Joe Rogan's promoting gutter by Jason Miller, former Trump associate getter
Get her. Get her, get her. Yeah. Look, I'd love to see. I'd love to see it grow and become strong. But right now, it's like Joe Rogan's. Get eat million followers. Well, that's not real. They actually count Joe Rogan's Twitter followers, which that's not get her is not as big as Twitter. Not anywhere close and you saw what they did to parlor, which is now a shadow of its former self and so on.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I really think that they're shooting themselves in the foot. I think, look in the grand scheme of things. We also need to remember how new to salt is when we're talking about social media. And we're talking about all the or less than two decades into all of this. So I think that there are a lot of growing pains. There are a lot of teething problems. There are a lot of things that are still to be worked out. We haven't had these Technologies for centuries. And so sure there are going
To be some things are going to be mistakes. Some things are going to be intentional and malicious. Some things are going to be purely political and the, you know, politically motivated. But I do remain optimistic in the long term. I think that if you run a company and you continue to make poor decisions, or you even D platform, all of the interesting people on your platform, it doesn't matter whether you're the size of YouTube or Facebook or Twitter.
Actually, you're going to have a competitor that is going to come through and rise up. Every time you do this, you're creating an opening for more and more competitors. So, while there's going to be a lot of turmoil and problems in the short term. I do believe that in the long term, things are going to work themselves out. You're having more and more decentralized Technologies coming up and you're getting more and more plot platforms that are coming now. Sure. They might be in the early stage. But I remember when Twitter and Facebook and all these other platforms were very much.
Their early stage and, you know, I don't maintain. I don't hold the position that any of these big tech companies is Untouchable. There are some people who seem to believe that that, you know, there's no way that Facebook could be toppled, or there's no way that Google or Twitter, or even, Amazon could be thought they can all be toppled if they make bad decision after bad decision, after bad decision. Then there are going to be entrepreneurs who come up with new ideas and technologies that do the job better and sir.
If the people at Centerpoint take a look
at Myspace, was the big was the big first, you know, social media giant. Remember Rupert, Murdoch bought that just as I started at Fox News, and it was like, wow, that's a that's an exciting investment wrong wrong. Uh, right, like of course, Facebook took off and then at the end of that,
I remember when I had 30,000 followers on MySpace, and I remember when, when Myspace lost its Gusto and I lost access to that
and well at least you didn't have any time, huh?
Millions of dollars invested like Rupert although
Rupert. He's doing fine.
He can take the hit. Okay, weird turn, but let me just ask you quickly because speaking of not being bi platform but getting blowback. So I don't I don't say the names of Shooters on my show. I haven't in over a decade these Mass Shooters because they often want infamy, and I declined to help. So, I'll just start with that. But there was yet another mass shooting in
Denver on December 27th, the gunman killed, five people wounded, several others, including a police officer in a shooting spree and included a car, chase and gun fights with law enforcement and so on. And the man who was killed was 47 years old. And what's crazy? Is this guy was on your podcast. So, and I understand people are giving you weird blowback. Like why did you whatever that? I'm that's just nonsense, right? You didn't know he was going to be a mass shooter when you interviewed him. He had a series of books out that you thought was interesting and wanted to talk to him about
Get it, but were you shocked when you hurt? Because it turns out, not only did he kill five people, but two of the people he shot according to what I read. He named in his book series as then, you know, sort of fictional characters who would be shot and then he did. In fact kill them. It's such a crazy story and I just wonder how it affected you personally when you learned that news that this guy, you know went on and did this is still very new
news. Yeah, I mean, in terms of the news itself.
Elf. It affected me in the same way any other horrible tragedy or incident that I'm not connected to would human beings. Losing their, you know, losing innocent lives violently for no reason and I like they're really can be a reason for say it's always sad. It's always harrowing. I put out just one statement about this because of course when you've got people who
Uus, a political opponent, or ideological opponent or whatever. They're going to use, whatever stick that they can find to attempt to hit you with it. So I just put out one single statement about that, but honestly, I'm not, you know, I have no connection to it. Anyone who was trying to implicate me in this somehow or say that, oh, you know, you know this, I mean you you must have interviewed hundreds of thousands of people throughout
your career. I've definitely been
Killers for sure.
Yeah, exactly. So, the notion that, you know, you have anything to do with their past or future actions years down. The line is totally ridiculous and disingenuous. So, I put out a statement just to say that, as well as just to give condolences to, you know, people who were directly affected by it for me. That's it. I don't really have anything else to anything more to say on that. It's a sad story.
It's tragic.
Few weeks when you spoke with this guy. Did you get a sense? Like, as I look back that The Killers, I've interviewed our people. For the most part, some exceptions who were like out there, denying that they killed their wives before we actually knew that. Yes, they did. Right. So like they're coming on doing a media tour. Like no, I didn't do it and you're always like, mmm, right. So when you interviewed this guy, which is an author with some provocative writings, that's it. So now when you look back and I think you did the right thing you pulled the you too.
Tube interview version the way I think there's an audio that still exists. But when you look back now, do you see like there were signs are there were red flags or, you know, I was look back at my interviews and say, like yes, I can see that's where he was lying, or that kind of thing.
Mmm. Honestly. No, honestly, no, you know, people like to try to retroactively fit these things based on the knowledge that they now have several years later, but honestly, no, I mean in the world of writing
An art and music and everything like that, and just life in general. Sure. Some people are a little bit eccentric or have strange stories, or whatever it is. But the notion that, you know, oh, this is something that was an obvious red flag or something like that. Honestly, honestly. No, I've actually kept up the audio version of the interview for for posterity. I didn't want to have it on YouTube number one because I didn't want to profit from it in any way.
But also for anyone who was potentially, you know, affected by it in some way. I just kind of felt like, it's not proper to have the video out there on the world's second biggest search engine, but ya know that I don't I don't really have much more to say beyond what I put out in that in that single
statement. Well, it's lunacy renovated. Everything you shouldn't be associated with this person and in any way, other than you once interviewed him and did you for anybody to be saying you shouldn't
Because he wrote violent books. Well, that's nonsense. There. A lot of violent books out there tons of violent books and which the authors don't go on to crew to create Mass Carnage. It's just an awful situation. And I sorry you got swept up in any way, you know, I just thought your name was even mentioned. I did, I did think it was worth asking you because I just think it's so Eerie when you find out after the fact that, you know, somebody been talking to had a secret side or was holding up a veil or, you know, because clearly this guy was Disturbed. I'm sure for a long
Time. And yeah, the condolences to those who were killed and those were grieving those murdered by this guy. There's so much to go over with zubi including what I want to look. He's been very outspoken on race and he pushes back on all this crazy. Just you know, everything's got to be about our skin color and our lady parts and all that stuff. Well, there's Insanity happening at Arizona State these two girls who got these two white men kicked out of their cultural molt their Multicultural Center because
White men who had something supportive of police and anti Joe Biden on them. Now, claim they have been victimized by the university. We're going to play the latest sound bite and get zeebee reaction.
So do be Arizona State University, it was in the mine. It was in the news, a couple of months ago, because I guess they built a Multicultural Center and two white guys went there and started studying and this upset two women of color who got up in their Grill, telling them to leave and one of them had a, I didn't vote for Joe, Biden t-shirt. On one of them had a sticker on his laptop. It says something like,
Police matter, and they were drinking a Chick-fil-A cup. So it's like, Chick-fil-A is gone multiple different ways on these woke issues. So, I don't know what that's supposed to mean. Here's a clip of the original incident for which the two young women. We now know have been disciplined and they are mad, as they were in this original video. Watch.
Do you have a bag here? Your offencive police lives matter? We're just trying to do what you guys have the same but this is our space.
We've got a police lives matter sticker, and we're getting kicked out. Can't do school. You have to leave. No. I
said you're making this face uncomfortable. But your white. Do you understand? What a multicultural space? It means you're not being.
It's not a culture. No, it's not a culture. It's white is not a culture. Say it again, to the camera. You think whiteness is a culture.
This is insane.
So anyway, this is the violence at ASU does and this is the type of people that they protect. Okay. This white man thinks he can take up our space. And this is why we need a multicultural space because they think they can get away with this shit.
Okay. Meanwhile, just for the record, those two guys are just sitting there. They were just sitting there. Studying. They weren't running around trying to, you know, engage in dialogue about police or anything else. They had their stickers and so on. So the university launches an investigation because in the Multicultural Center, you are actually not allowed to kick out the white people and you're not allowed to treat others this way on campus property, harassing them and they found these two gals guilty.
Of misbehavior and the I guess they're actual crime, was quote crime was interfering with the University's activities after they harass these two white students. That's what the university found. And the two gals who are ones an undergraduate mastani Qureshi, and one's a graduate students are odd. Tacola, are most unhappy Zoo be here. They are.
Dear white people AKA, ASU you openly discriminated against us on November 16th. When you handed down your decision from your racially biased investigation. We are being persecuted for defending. Our Multicultural Centre, from racism, and sexism. You gave us two punishments. The first one was a warning and the second one was to write a three-page paper on how
Time when we talk with white people about race and Society, we will be civil. This video is in fulfillment of our educational intervention. We are going to give ASU and educational intervention on. Why telling students of color at ASU to be more civil in the face of white supremacy. And you'll Nazism on this campus is actually violence violence. So that now these kids are white supremacists and neon.
Nazis. And these girls were just standing up to the modern-day Hitler and and our victims for being called to account for that harassment, your thoughts.
Yeah, the bar is low now, man. I actually have a lot of thoughts on this my first thought and this may be slightly unorthodox. My first immediate thought is that we live in an age where now that everyone has a video camera in their pocket.
It's in the ability to post things on social media. And all of this where, this story, which is really something that is far as I'm concerned, shouldn't go outside the university itself, and I'm somehow here sitting in England. I watched it when it came out and, you know, millions of people all around the world sod and whatever. And firstly, I feel a weird way about that, because I think that so many things get blown up and individuals, get highlighted. You can take all four people who are involved in this.
Incident, the the two men and the two young women and we live in this weird time where people can be completely destroyed over that. And I think that everybody involved again needs to be a little more cautious with this, right. I mean, it seems like they were trying their best to get these two men in trouble, and it ended up backfiring on them. But first thing I want to say, like nobody should have their life.
Right over this stupid incident. My next point is that this is this is the monster that has been created by the activism that is pushed in some of these schools and universities. If you listen to the way these girls are speaking and you listen to the language, it's extraordinarily unnatural. This is activist language. Nobody talks like that. Normally, you can tell I'm not being centered.
Yeah, like, well, that's that's a complete hardcore. Left-wing activist phrase like people don't use that term, the way they're even using the term, you know, centering white supremacy, you know, people by POC people. I, all of these phrases this is activist terminology. So the university should not be shocked when these things happen when they are the ones who are indoctrinating people into this line of thinking, I mean, I don't even know.
The Multicultural Center in AU from University is when I was at University. We did not have Multicultural centers. Every every part of the campus, every part of the city was Multicultural like anyone is allowed in any place and that's all it is. You treating people fairly and equally when people just start going back to this notion of seeing people based on their skin color, their race, their ethnicity or whatever. Nothing good comes of it, even if people think that they're doing it for a good reason, or an activist reason or Equity, or whatever nonsense. They
They've been brainwashed into believing, it's not it's not positive. Once you are purely seeing people's skin color and you're judging people and you know, having prejudices and treating them differently based on that. You're back to a funny little thing, which is called racism and the way to defeat racism, isn't to be racist in the other direction. It's to simply not behave in this way, and just treat people decently and treat.
Well as human beings. So I hope that the four people involved in this thing. Honestly, I'd love it. If they could just sit down and just have a conversation like normal human beings and understand each other's perspectives and agree to disagree. And who knows? Maybe even end up becoming friends. That's really how these things should go, but I don't, I don't want to see anyone's life. Get ruined over this whole incident. I think it's actually an important teaching Point teaching moment where you can just sit everybody down and see, look this
This is the monster that we have created. This is what's going on. This little incident, here is a microcosm of what's going on in wider society. And what can we do to stop this from happening? Because again, this is a relatively new
phenomenon. Well, be nice. We nice of Arizona State took this as a reasonable chance to stop its woke up vacation and say this is not the way forward and if you give one inch you've given already the entire
Forget Mi the entire game is gone because once you open the door to sort of this nonsense and entertaining, this like words are violence and, you know, the white person can't be in the Multicultural Center with the thing that supports cops. Once you start even engaging in that you've lost, you know, you've lost and there's no better example of any of that than what happened to Brett Weinstein. Speaking of him Evergreen college and the go back. And look at those tapes of the students inside the head of schools office screaming at the guy. He wanted to go to the bathroom.
That, you know, had to ask for permission. It was just the most awful example of where this goes. Once you open the door to this, kind of ridiculous messaging. I said to these students at Stanford. I was out there talking to them, not long ago. Last year. The year before words are not violence. They're not. And these are Stanford, Graduate, students, who looked at Mizzou be and said, yes, they are. Like, you're going to have to grow up a sorry, but you're just going to have to
grow up.
You Megan, it's brainwashing and its recent. I mean, I graduated University in 2007. And none of this was going on at that time. This is something that has really, really started hitting hard in the past seven to eight years. It's really exploded. All of these Concepts. All of this language. Literally the way they are speaking. The phraseology in terms that they are using our new, these are things that have been programmed into people. These are ideas that have been
Been programmed again Often by universities. If not by schools prior to that. And this is a perfect manifestation of where it leads. Now. If anyone ever has a question around one of these situations, there's a simple exercise. I like to do, which is simply too, you know, and people like doing this in different directions. But yeah, just imagine the imagine it swapped around the other way. Imagine you swap to the aggressors and the people defending themselves in this situation, you would just
You would see just how nasty the rhetoric is, and who the aggressor is. And it would be, it would just be planar for people to see what the problem is here. And I don't think that American society wants to go back to the way things were in, you know, Rivers things 100 years and go back to how things were in, in 1922. So in 2022, let's not be playing these stupid games. Again. The best way to win is to simply not
play Arizona State.
Diversity is a State University. It's a public university and it is unlawful to have a center that excludes One race. You cannot have that, that is not. Okay. So whether whiteness is a culture or not. I have no idea. I don't waste my time thinking about those things. But I do know it's unlawful for any group to tell another racial group. They may not enter because of their skin color. That's not the way it works here in America. Thank God. Okay, so speaking of
Dueling, whatever. Measures on the woke scale, we talked about that earlier. And I mentioned, Dave, Chappelle. There was news about Dave, Chappelle. I'd love to ask you about this. This is insane to me. So patent, Al's Oswalt is a comedian who is also an actor and he's kind of an activist to. He's a left-wing activist and he's been, I guess, friends with Dave Chappelle for a very long time. I didn't know any of this, but he was, he was with Dave Chappelle and he
Posted a picture of the two of them on Twitter and Instagram from New Year's Eve, and celebrated his friendship with Dave Chappelle. One of the most successful people in the world, right? And most beloved not in all circles. I understand because of his trans comments, but Patton Oswalt does this and he has now got his tail between his legs, apologizing, deeply, I guess. Sincerely for having the nerve to post a picture of himself with his friend of
I'm 34 years. I think that's what he said, 30 plus years. He's embarrassed that he did it and let me give you a just a couple of phrases from his long now apology. Okay. So first, he posts, he, they both had finished comedy sets in Seattle and Chappelle, invited him over to do a set at sea at Chappelle's place. He said, great. He says, I ended the year with a real friend and a deep laugh. Can't ask for much more, very nice. And then
Came the backlash right against him for daring to do that with just post a nice picture of him with Dave Chappelle 34 years. We've been friends, by the way. He does agree. Then he says he's done. Lots of things. He's refocused, refined ideas a lot. But we also disagree, 100% about transgender rights and representation. I support trans people rights. Anyone's rights to live safely in the world is they're full of selves for all these things. He's helped me evolve on. I'll always disagree with where he stands now. And
Issues, but I also don't believe a Seeker like him is done evolving learning. So basically Dave Chappelle's a moron who just needs to evolve to Patton oswalt's position on trans people, you know, in order for him to be a fully formed human. I guess he goes on to say, I've also been carrying a lot of guilt about friends. I've cut off some of who had used with, which I couldn't agree and he said, sometimes I wonder did. Did my cutting them off? Make them dig their heels in deeper fuel their ignorance.
Ignorance with a Nitro boost of resentment. In spite, you see, if you, if you lose access to Patton, Oswalt, zubi. You become an even bigger. Moron. He become even dumber because you no longer have access to his enlightened ideas. He goes on. I'm an lgbtq, a lie. I am a loyal friend. Oh contraire, then he says, there's friction in those traits that I need to reconcile myself and not let feel
That not let it cause feelings of betrayal in anyone else and I am sorry, truly, sorry. Wrapping up here that I did not consider the hurt this would cause or the depth of that hurt.
You you what do you make of it?
What a performance. Amazing. Brilliant Bravo. Look, I don't like to, I don't like to talk about individuals. Let alone individuals. I do not personally. No, but this is super lame Ultra lame. It's cowardly and I have no respect for it. That's, that's true. That's really what I can say. I mean and and it's also, it's also doing his friend, his supposed friend of 34 years, dirty as well, because he's essentially framing.
Trying to frame himself as this virtuous and light in person. He's essentially also throwing Chappelle under the bus as, you know, not being up to his level and, you know, essentially being a bad guy even though you're claiming to be friends. So I think it's dirty. I think it's dishonest. I think it's week. I think it's cowardly. I think it's just lame. It's super lame.
It's where we are now though, isn't it? Where it's not enough? You can't use people say well we have disagreements, you know, whatever. Dems Republicans, even on social issues. We have we have different way.
And looking at the world, what it hasn't always been this vicious. But we have had meaningful debates on things like affirmative action, right? Like that's just take one. That's a racial issue that you could have really strong feelings on. And you could have used that 10 15 years ago, to say, you're a racist, if you're not in support of it, that's not really where we went. Yes. Sometimes but not like today. And so now, it's not enough. Like, you can't just say, I don't agree with Dave on everything. I wouldn't even feel the need to say that just, hey, here's me my, but having a great time, but
It's not even enough for him to say we disagree on some things. But this is my pal of 34 years. A lot of respect for his success and what he's done. No. Yeah, you have to acknowledge. He's bad, the depth of the hurt you, even acknowledging him as a human, as a friend has caused many, many people and deeply apologize, right? This is it's not just about patent. It's this is the Playbook. We've seen it as so many Hollywood celebrities and Beyond sports figures team owners, corporate Executives. It's pathetic to me. It's pathetic.
Pathetic that so many people feel the need to do this.
Yes. It's absolutely pathetic. It's absolutely pathetic and it's a big part of the problem. As I always come back to the point of cowardice. Cowardice is the problem. People not standing up for themselves, people not standing up for the truth. People not standing up for their employees. People not standing up for their friends. People being unwilling to draw a line. Everyone always trying to appease the most offended person out there.
And it's just, it's just lame, and it also doesn't work. It's also a really bad strategy because these people are like piranhas when you when they see a little bit of blood in the water, then they're going to go even harder if you genuinely hurt somebody and you feel bad about it, the normal thing, and the right thing and the moral thing to do is to apologize to that individual. If you haven't done anything.
Wrong or even if you had these public grovelling apologies with these huge long diatribes, it's all performative. It's all performative. And it's just ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And I can't respect any celebrity. Who does this? I can't respect any individual who does this? It's been going on for years and it's just lame. Honestly, if late every time it happens, Holden's, the mob to go after more and more
people. That's right. It appeases. No one. And in this situation,
Situation. It was a personal betrayal of a friend which is which makes it extra wrong Zoo. Be such a pleasure. Thank you so much for being here. How can people get your music?
Sure thing? So my latest album Word of Zu B is out right now. On All Digital platforms, you can get that on iTunes, Apple music Spotify or wherever else you get your music from just search my name. Zubi, zubi. Why? You can also get the album if you want a physical copy of got the vinyl coming out later this year that's available at tea.
Zoo b.com and you can find me on all social media at zubi music, Zu V,
use I heard that last year was the first time in years vinyl has outsold CDs. So we're going back. I like that may. Let's hope we go back and some other ways to, to, like the days when we used to like each other and see each other with Grace, and maybe not rose-colored glasses, but at least kind kind forgiving graceful glasses. Zubi, all the best. Thank you Megan. Don't forget to tune in tomorrow. We've got Senator Rand Paul and Josh. Rogin back.
To talk covid. Don't miss it.
Thanks for listening to the Megyn Kelly show. No BS, No Agenda, and no fear.
