The following is a conversation with Joe Rogan. His second time on this podcast, he has inspired me for many years with his conversations, to be a better and Kinder person, and has now been doing so as a friend,
There is no one. I would rather talk to, on this 300th, episode of this podcast, on the fourth of July, both the anniversary of this country's Declaration of Independence and the anniversary of my immigrating here to the United States. A silly kid who couldn't speak English. I could never imagine that he will be so damn. Lucky as to live the life. I've lived at the feel. The love. I felt from the amazing people along the way.
From the bottom of my heart. Thank you. I love you all.
And now a quick view, second mention of a sponsor, check them out in the description. The best way to support this podcast, we got Thera gun for Muscle Recovery, athletic greens for performance inside track of, for longevity 8, sleep for napping, and expressvpn for privacy, Choose Wisely, my friends. And now, on to the full ad reads, as always, no ads in the middle, I try to make this interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy this stuff.
You will too.
This show is brought to you by their gun. One of my favorite tools to help Muscle Recovery and therapy. I've had a few small injuries and one that's just been taking forever to heal. And I've been using ther going to help with that. I guess it's called abductor, like, muscle AKA groin pull. It's been a nightmare because it's not really that injured, but it's just takes forever to heal and it takes a long time to regain confidence, you know.
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Is athletic greens twice a day, and even travel with it, they have traveled packs. It's super easy. They'll give you one month supply of fish oil when you sign up at athletic greens.com. Lex join me, brothers and sisters. In this nutritional pursuit of a stable healthy life. The show's also brought to you by inside tracker service. I used the track biological data, they have a bunch of plans most of which include blood test that collect data about your body.
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That reveals to you, how you can solve that puzzle, sort of do, what? Psychiatry has always hoped to do, but do so systematically. I mean, we're probably really, really far away from that because I think human biology is super complicated, but
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This episode is also brought to you by eight sleep and it's pod Pro mattress. It controls temperature with an app. It's back with sensors and you can cool down to as low as 55 degrees and east side of the bed separately. Now, the first part of that 55 degrees feels like heaven honestly, it's 100 degrees plus here in Austin. I've been running outside sometimes in the afternoon and that heat it really tests the mind.
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This show is also brought to you by expressvpn, I use them to protect my privacy on the internet.
I know you go to all kinds of shady websites. I probably go to them as well. There's no shame in it. We're in this together. Life is short? Why not enjoy it? This is bad country after all. But when you do so you should take precautions use a good VPN. And I think the best VPN my favorite, VPN the one I've used for many many years religiously before any of this podcast.
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There's a lot. I mean I've used a lot of distributions and how did this discussion about a VPN lead me to a discussion of Linux? I don't know the point is, you can go to express ups.com, leg spot to get an extra three months free. This selects frequent podcast supported, please check out our sponsors in the description and now your friends, here's Joe Rogan.
Charles Bukowski said something in a poem called style about art. He defined art saying style is the answer to everything a fresh way to approach a doll or dangerous thing to do a dull thing with style is preferable to doing a dangerous thing without it to do. A dangerous thing with style, is what I call Art. What do you think he meant by that? You agree with this, a dangerous
thing with style is
Art. He said bullfighting can be hard. Boxing can be our loving
We are. Have you ever made love? And it was all right now. Okay, I'm not as good
a time bro. Opening a can of sardines can be art. I think there's something to that. Yeah, I think I think I called the way people live life art. Like I wrote a foreword to my friend Cameron Haynes his book and which is right now the number one selling audiobook in the world and ice. One of the things that I said was that he practices an art that very few people.
Date and it's the art of the Maximized Life. And that the discipline that he displays in his life and through his practices and all the things that he does, it's so difficult to live the way he lives that for someone like me who understands it and knows what he's doing and appreciates it and appreciates how insanely difficult, it is to have a full-time job and run ultramarathon.
Get up at 4:00 in the morning, run a full marathon before work. Like that's the kind of shit that he does when he when he's training for these 240-mile runs all the way at the same time, being like a father, a husband having this full-time job also being the best bow hunter on Earth, lifting weights. It's like, how is he how does a person do
this so that it would discipline
is our to yeah, sit discipline is art.
Yeah, I think it is because it's beautiful for me to see when I see someone who's really truly disciplined, who like a David goggin, someone who just like truly maximizes the grind. I feel like there's an art to that. And there's a there's an art to kindness. Like there's people that are really kind and really sweet and when I'm around them it's beautiful. It's like there's an art to them no matter what. Yeah.
They still they get you know the world can throw a bunch of shit at you but through
all that some people are just graded it. Yeah and it's a it's thing that you
How to do and it's pleasing for other people to see and that I think is where the art is.
Well I think because Kyle said, I'm just a Bukowski quote generator today, I love him, I love him very much too. He's a dark and troubled and fastening in a weird person like Hunter has Thompson. Yeah, he said what matters most is how you walk through the fire. I think so, there's a bit of the can hands in that to David goggin that to what he meant by that.
At.
Well, how you walk through the fire mean, you can walk through the fire complaining along the way, or you can walk through the fire and create an example for everyone else. So that the trials and tribulations of their own lives seem trivial because they're comparing themselves, the way you handle things or the way. You handle things with Grace and dignity and discipline can show other people that they can handle their own life. This way.
And there's there's Beauty in that the really is and there's so there's so much so much inspiration to be gathered from other people. If you're a charitable person, if your charitable and, and and compassionate and you, you can look at people even people, I don't like, I try to look at the best aspects of how they live their life and in and recognize those aspects admire them. Give them credit for it. There's something that we can all get out of
Watching the way other people live their
lives. So again, a chance to see you walk through the fire little bit privately and publicly this year, in January, I got to ask you about that. So there's like, generic conversations about sort of cancel culture, and all those kinds of things. But as a human being, this to me, is a fascinating, sort of, there's the n-word highlight video. There's the criticism of the different guests. What are the side? Is on the covid pain.
Democratic. And you, I mean, there's a mass amount of attack on you outside of being a public Persona, outside of being a comedian podcaster, you're also a human being. So, how did you survive that? How did you sort of walk through that fire? Because you seemed to do with Grace?
I used mushrooms that was one way. I did it. Yeah, really.
What's your as I enter human would say what was your protocol?
I took is probably less than a gram every day every day. Yeah, and I did a lot of like really hard working out but also I mean, there's a great benefit to going through anything difficult.
Alt and if you're aware like in advance and while enduring like anything, that's going to happen, that's very difficult and troubling the great benefit is it gives you an opportunity to grow gives you an opportunity to express herself, under pressure to show your character to show you truly are. And it gives you an opportunity to see how you handle a very difficult situation. It also,
Was fascinating as a person that's involved in media, right? Because what we're doing right now is Media even though you know, it seems like podcast seen him like just having a conversation, right? And they are we in a sense it's kind of the purest form of media because what you're doing is you're you're you're doing it without any Fanfare. You're doing it without any. There's no
Executives looming over your head or network or big meetings about ratings or any of that stuff. But it is Media. But what I got to see is the wiring under the machine of how the rest of media would try to take me out. And, you know, they like when CNN would be just be playing things over and over and back and forth, it was wild to watch what was also wild to watch was people's responses because I gained 2 million subscribers
Subscribers during that time. Like the podcast never got bigger, it just kept growing and heart. It has never been bigger than it had been like at the end of all of it. I just made it bigger. And, you know, ultimately when if you've fucked up in the past, or made mistakes or done something, wrong that gives you an opportunity to discuss those things and to say, to apologize, if you feel the need to apologize. And also to just
Address it and did. So people under that kind of pressure, they get, it's an opportunity for them to understand how you think about things, honestly how you actually honestly think about things and there's no more honesty that you get out of a person than when that person is under extreme duress. You know. So I think in that sense, I mean, it's horrible to say that it's a benefit that it's a good thing that it happened, but it was a benefit.
Okay? You see how it can break a person. Yes, I've gotten the chance to experience small.
Small attacks here and there. Yeah ones that get to the core things like even just talking to about Russia and Ukraine to the Stephen Hawking or Oliver Stone's looking at different perspectives, you gain a relative for me. Feeling like a sizeable number of people who really don't like you. Yeah. And say things about you that are that maybe cut deep for a reason, I don't understand why it's just my own psyche.
Elegy. What's also? Because you can't
defend yourself because they're saying it and you're not there and you, you don't have any opportunity for a rebuttal and if you do have a rebuttal, you're doing it publicly and you're opening it up to the whole world to chime in, and there's a general tendency that people have towards negativity. When they're interacting with strangers online, especially about controversial subjects. And even if it's only 10% of the people, it's one out of ten. That's a lot.
That's a lot of negativity. When you're dealing with thousands and thousands of
tweets and I think maybe I'm just a very self-critical person but I hear their words and probably somewhere deep inside. See the truth in the criticism in some aspect of the criticism and that's why it
hurts. Well, it's but it's and one aspect of you, right, you know? But when you're reading it it's so it's boiled down to this one.
Bang as if that one thing defines, you totally like if you've made a mistake, if you've said something that you shouldn't have said, or if you said something and you know, maybe you should have considered it more carefully giving the gravity of the situation, you know, that that's just a part of being a person and it's also part of being a person where you're communicating with things publicly in real time, thinking out loud, which is what we do. You know, it's complex and most
Don't do it and you're going to have these. You're going to have genuine. Hot takes where people just see what you said and go. Why did he say that? Fuck him you know he doesn't know anything about he doesn't live in Ukraine. He does. You know, it's like there's there's people that are going to have takes on that and that way and then there's also going to be these disingenuous people who just use any kind of controversial topic or subject as an opportunity for them to get clicks or
views. But isn't that the
Of those people can be quite large quite large and so going back to do. You think it can destroy a person? Has that kind of worried about this and you're in many ways, but in this way and inspiration that, it didn't seem to have destroyed you. But is that
doing shows I kept doing stand-up. I ignored everything. I didn't read any of
it. It's so it is possible to just
100%.
Yes. Yeah, I ignored
it all but you have like knew it was
there like, your family didn't bring.
Get
up my friends. Friends are all very aware of it. My wife was aware of
what was a conversation. Like, if your wife is aware of it, is there like a rule? Don't bring it
pretend it's not happening know, just like well, I don't I tell her don't ever read
past the green beans?
Yeah. I don't ever let her like, read - articles to me, you know, I don't want them but I don't care. I go. That's a person's opinion. You take a person's opinion, you write it down, doesn't give it any more relevance like that person. You know, could have had that opinion in silence. They
Had it with some friends at dinner. They don't like me, whatever. I don't want to read it. I don't want to absorb it. I don't even know them especially if I'm not there and especially if it's some biased and it's not an objective opinion of me, it's this, you know, they have a narrative and they want to stick to that narrative and they want to write an article and they pieced it all together. Make you heard a piece of shit and that's their prerogative. They're completely out to do that. But I do, I shouldn't absorb that I shouldn't take that in. You're not supposed to be
Taking in the opinion of the world. Yeah. You're supposed to be taking in the opinion of small groups of people that you encounter, so that you get an understanding of how you make them feel. And then maybe you say to yourself, maybe I come across too rude or maybe I come across too insensitive or maybe maybe I could do better and this way or that way, that's how we sort of shape our personalities, and it's how we, we develop our social skills. But
And the people don't know you and they have this like, distorted Narrative of you and, you know, there's fucking millions of people. There's so many people, you can't. I think the sales now, actually. I mean, Millions people that are like, communicating about something like during the height of the, you know, the attempt to cancel me or whatever that is. I don't know how many people are involved in that people take this kind of stuff seriously, but the problem is
the false narratives. Take hold. And then you, you have meetings, you have groups, you have it.
It builds on top of each other and there's this outrage and then it reaches you at some point and they can just have these destructive effects and it just Han,
but it also sometimes doesn't. And in my case it didn't it didn't work.
Well, lessons, did you draw from that mushrooms
exercise? My muscles. An exercise exercise is critical it. So I don't think the mushrooms by themselves or worked. But that's the thing that I use for everything is the brutal exercise like,
Exercise, routines are horrible. And because of that, everything else is easier. I create my own bullshit. And my own bullshit is so much harder, and it's not just that, it's also, sauna, and cold plunge. And this is torture sessions. They in during those, when you endure those, it makes enduring other things much easier. And it's also an understanding of what's Happening. Like, you have to know like media. You have to understand like what
What the hot Take You Know YouTube social media podcast ecosphere is doing like if they're talking about, you know, Lex Friedman said this. And we have to comment on that and you know Lex gets cancelled in all capital letters on a YouTube clip and if you you watch that you're fucking crazy. What are you doing? Absorbing all this negativity? It's not good for you. You are you, you know, you and you know generally if you've made a mistake and you'll generally if people are upset with you,
Opposed to this awesome video on your Instagram of a woman who was being interviewed in 1988 1920s.
Maybe. Yeah,
and she's close to 100 years old, so she's lived through the Civil War, the world war one. She was at the time living through the early days of the Great Depression. So I was just looking back, you know, what have we as the human civilization in recent times survived, especially in the United States, you're talking about the two World Wars.
Wars in the 20th century, the Great Depression, the Spanish Flu pandemic at the beginning of the 20th century. Yeah. What do we do in the United States 911. If you think of what are the traumatic events that shook our world? It's 911 it made us rethink our place in the world. The pandemic
pandemic is a huge one is, I mean the bigger ones because it also accelerated and exacerbated. Our anxiety, which
Have a certain level of anxiety already. Especially sedentary people. They have a very high level of anxiety already because I don't think they're they're giving their body. What it? What it needs. I don't think they're, you know, your body has certain requirements in terms of movement, and when you deny your body, those requirements, I think there's like a general level of anxiety that exists in almost every one, and then you have people, obviously that have mental health issues and that also exacerbate,
Bates, the anxiety, the lockdown. Exacerbate the anxiety, losing loved ones to the pandemic, exacerbated, anxiety. And then there was the division, the to the different schools of thought that people that were never going to get vaccinated no matter what. I ain't trusting it people thought there was microchips in there. People that thought that you know Fouch he's the demon and there's there was a lot and there's also like political leanings, the right way.
People tended to not want to be vaccinated whereas the left-wing people for whatever reason. All the sudden are trusting pharmaceutical companies like explicitly. It was weird. It's it was a weird time and I think over time as it's going to As It Gets analyzed and when we break it down, it's going to be one of the weirder moments for shaping, human culture, and unfortunately, for throwing gasoline on this already burning.
Fire of, you know, of conflict between the various factions of thought in this country. It's just a, it's already a weird time. But you know, post Trump like the Trump era is also going to be one of the weirder times when people look back, historically about the division in this country, he's such a polarizing figure. That so many people felt like
They could abandon their own ethics and morals and principles just to attack him and anybody who supports him because he is an existential threat to democracy
itself. But don't you think it's not a cause? But maybe like a symptom like it's going to get. You said it got real weird. Maybe it's going to get
weirder. Yeah, I think it's going to get weirder. He's going to run again. You think it went? Well, he's running against a dead man. You know? I mean
Biden shakes hands with people that aren't even there when he gets off stage. Yeah, I think he's seeing ghosts. Yeah. He seemed on Jimmy Kimmel the other day. No, well, he was just rambling. I mean, he's if he was anyone else if he was a republican. If that was Donald Trump, doing that every fucking talk show would be screaming for him to be off the air. And I'm, by the way, I'm not a trump supporter in any way, shape, or form. I've had the opportunity to have them, I show more than once. I've said, no every time,
I want to help him. I'm not interested in
helping. The the night is still young. We'll see
if I have month and I still young. You think a lot of money, I think you'll have them on really? Why do you think that? Because you'll have Putin on? Yeah, and you're competitive as fuck.
No. I think ultimately. I mean you had you've had a lot of people that I think you might you may otherwise be skeptical. Would I have a good conversation?
In which I think is your metric. You don't care about politics so they can I have a good conversation and I think you had like people people like Kanye on. For example, if you had a great conversation with them, I think you I think one
is an artist like but Kanye doing well or not doing well doesn't change the course of our
country.
If you don't, do you really bear? The responsibility of the course of our country based on a conversation. I
think you can Revitalize and rehabilitate someone's image in a way. That is pretty shocking. Look at the way people look at Alex Jones now because Alex Jones has been on my podcast a few times.
Yeah. How do they which direction
the people that have watched those podcasts think he's hilarious.
And they think that he definitely fucked up with that whole Sandy Hook thing, but he's right more than he's wrong and he's not an evil guy, he's just a guy who's had some psychotic breaks in his life. He said some genuine mental health issues that he's addressed. He's had some serious bouts of alcoholism, some serious bouts of, you know, substance abuse and they've contributed to some very poor thinking. But if you know the guy,
If you get to know him like I have I've known it for more than 20 years. And if you know, him on podcast you realize like he is genuinely trying to unearth some things that are genuinely disturbing for most people, like, is a guy that was telling me about Epstein's Island fucking decade ago, at least he was telling me about, I was like what you're telling me, there's a place where they bring Elites.
To compromise them with underage girls and they filmed them. Really like what could the fuck out of here? Yeah, like no President Clinton's been there. Everyone's been there like, but it sounds like nonsense. And not only is it true? But people keep getting fucking murdered for it. Did you see that latest Clinton advisor? That got murdered by got it? Yep. Yeah, hung with an extension cord shot himself in the chest, 30 miles from his house and they're calling it a
suicide. And now even Elon Musk is asking where's the clientele list? Yeah.
We should we should probably see, who's been to that Island.
Yeah, we should probably see who's been to that island and there's probably more of those kind of things out there that haven't been
exposed yet, but sort of, to push back in you. You had those conversations with Alex Jones, wouldn't you be able to have the same kind of conversation with Donald Trump's the problem review? No, it's not. The problem. You revealed that Alex Jones is a human being. Yeah, it's fucked up his demons in his head.
Ed he's obviously chaotic all over the place but there's some wisdom to the perspective he takes on the world. Even if though he is often full of shit, he is able to predict certain things that very few. People are willing to bring up isn't Trump the same way fucked up, person, egomaniac, whatever personality things you can talk about isn't it worthwhile to lay it out? Like who's going to if you listen to interviews of trump, who has the
Balls to call him out on his bullshit.
Chris Wallace did
know, calling out somebody on their bullshit is easy when you just being adversarial but as a person who is genuinely empathetically trying to understand. Yeah, I think you're really good at that like you pulled
them in off, he would genuinely be there. You know I'm saying? Like I think he'll be putting on a performance and that's
I think you can break through that in like 30 minutes.
I need more time than that and he doesn't do any drugs that they want.
Ali-A and get Alex. Hi, yeah, get him drunk. And I'll start talking about interdimensional child molesters? Yeah you know and then you get the real
Alex a maybe you have somebody else on as well. Introduce chaos like Alex.
No, no, no, no, I have to go on. I would have to be just me and him I would have to that would be a focus thing. I would have to like really take time with with Trump but also I'm not well-versed enough politically to know.
All of the corruption that's been alleged and to understand what the the whole Russia gate stuff. What what's real like? How much of it? It's clear that there is more than one organization that's involved in communicating with Russia before the 2016 election. So it's pretty clear that the Clinton Administration was involved. It's pretty clear that the Trump administration had some communication with some people in Russia. It's pretty clear that Hunter
Biden had some very suspicious dealings in Ukraine and there's a lot going on there, man. And it's, it's hard for anybody to parse. It's really hard for anybody and especially to have an objective assessment of exactly what's going on and then to be able to do that and broadcast it publicly. That's quite a project and I think if you really want to do that correctly, it's something that I would have to research for a long time and to read
Really, really, and I don't have that kind of time
notnot for maybe for certain, for certain people that you're really curious about, like, you have that kind of time
for Bob, Lazar? Yes, yes,
but maybe not for
Donald Trump. No, that's different because Bob, Lazar, what? What, you know what he's talking about? I wanted to know with the Baba's are thing. I want to know first, I want to be around him and see if I could smell bullshit. They
Jus like okay.
No, I didn't man. That was what's weird about it not only died.
Not smell bullshit. I went over all of his interviews. I went out. He's hasn't done a lot but he's done enough and he's done them over the course of 30 plus years and it's alarming. How consistent is story is which is really weird me. Think about you're talking about back-engineering alien crafts and working on a, you know, a top secret government test site. That's carved into the side of a mountain and to camouflage it from satellites.
It's a, it's such a wacky story, but the guy really did work at Los Alamos labs. He really is a propulsions expert. He really is a scientist. Did he really work on back-engineering, UFOs? I don't know. But the way he described their motion is exactly. Like, what's been observed by some of these Pilots that have these videos that they've captured
and I just love the like NASA. I've been hearing from a bunch of folks who are, they're legitimately like
Funding research and there's people really taking this seriously of UFO. Sightings investigating them. Yeah. Like adding more and more sensors to collect data from just observing. Yeah I hired definitions it's cool to finally see that he was one of the early people whether he's full of shit or not. That kind of forced people to start taking this kind these topics seriously or at least
forced people to have conversations about them and maybe attempt to
Debunk them because it seems so Preposterous. But then get sucked down the rabbit hole and start going. Hmm. Maybe I will fucking, it's the thing is like the Fermi Paradox. Like where are they, right? And when you take into account, just the sheer raw numbers, the vast majority of people objectively assume that there is life out there.
The vast majority. Well if if you really take into account what we understand about the universe itself, what we understand about the concept of bit of infinity and the way Neil deGrasse Tyson as explain it to me is that not only are there are life forms out there but there's you you are out there. Infinity is so large that Lex Friedman exists and doesn't just exist but exists an infinite number of times like the amount of interaction.
Ins that cells and molecules the same exact interactions that have happened here on Earth have happened in the exact same order, an infinite number of times in the
cosmos. Well, first of all, it's not certain that that's true as possible Hospital. Like, Sean Carroll, you know, especially with quantum mechanics based on certain interpretation of quantum mechanics, that's, that's very possible. But the question is, can you access those
Universes, right, and so far away are the more in the more sort of specific practical question is this local pocket of the universe? Our galaxy, our neighboring galaxies are there. Aliens there? What did they look like? Where are they? So you can have this panspermia idea where a much larger like, like Daddy civilization, like rolled by and just planted a few aliens at a similar
time. Like,
Yes. Different. You know, throughout the Galaxy and those are the ones who might be interacting with. They're all kind of dumb as we are relatively, you know, maybe a few million years apart and then those are the ones we interacting with and then we have a chance to actually connect with them communicate with them or it could be like much more wide open. And you have these gigantic alien civilizations that are expanding very very quickly. And the interesting thing is when you look up at the sky and you see the stars,
And that's the light from those Stars. We might not be seeing the alien civilizations until they're already here, meaning, right? Like you start expanding, once you get really good at expanding, you're going to be expanding very close to the speed of light. So right now we don't see much in in the sky but there could be one night. One day we wake up and it's just like everywhere and they're
here, right? But because the amount of time the light takes to reach us. Yeah. And then the thing that
I've been really fascinated by is these Alternative forms of transportation that they're discussing like the, the ability to harness wormholes and the ability to do things that what a Type 3 civilization is capable of I had Michio Kaku on my podcast, recently, fantastic. Love that guy. He's so he's so good at taking extremely complex.
Concepts and boiling them down for digestion and and you know and saying them in a way that other people can
appreciate and not being hesitant about saying wild crazy shit that's out there but grounded in what's actually possible.
Yeah, he's all-in on this UFO phenomenon. Now he's now he's like now, the burden of proof is to people for people to come up with some sort of a conventional explanation for these things. He goes because these things are defying. All the concepts of physics that
Where we currently know in terms of what our capabilities are and and propulsion systems. And and so many other things that, you know, what we know about what current science is capable of reproducing as far as what we know, the problem is, like these military projects that are top secret like how much money do they have? They have a lot of money, like, but is it possible? And maybe you could speak to this? Is it possible that there could be
Be some propulsion systems that have been developed and implemented that are far beyond just a simple burning of Rocket. Fuel pushing the fire out the back, which forces the rocket at extreme speeds forward. That's something that does harness gravity something that can distort space and time and can make travel from one point to another like preposterously Fast.
Well, not only is it
Possible. I think it's likely that that kind of stuff would be kept a secret. Yeah it's just everything you see about these about the way either. If it's contractors like Lockheed Martin or if it's doody. The the actual Department of Defense, they operate in complete secrecy. Just even looking at the history of the stealth fighter, just even stuff. Technology was kept a secret for a very, very long time. And not
Till you're ready to use it and need to use, it, does it become public. And now, officially public is just is being detected out in the wild. So there's going to be a process where you're secretly, testing it and that might creep up, which is maybe what we're seeing. And then it's waiting for the next big war. The next big reason to use the thing. Yeah. And then so yeah, there's definitely Technologies. Now they might not be propulsion technologies. That could be AI.
A surveillance technologies that could be different kinds of stealth drones. There could be. It could be also in cyberspace like cyber War weapons. All that kind of stuff that they're obviously going to be kept secret.
I'm very skeptical lately and the reason why I'm skeptical as the government keeps talking about it, the Pentagon keeps talking about it. NASA keeps talking about it
in which direction you're
skeptical. I'm skeptical that it's they're aliens.
I think most likely it's a smokescreen and most likely these are some sort of like incredibly Advanced drones that they've developed that they want to pretend don't exist. That seems the more likely scenario because otherwise my take is like, what's the benefit of them? Discussing these things, like what's the benefit of them? Discussing these things openly these are you know what? The way they described it offworld. Crafts not made from this Earth.
Why, why would they, why would they tell us that? I mean, unless there's an imminent danger of us being invaded and they want to prepare people, so they don't freak out as much, you know, like maybe freaking out a little bit say that publicly the New York Times article the Pentagon discussing it all these different things have
to water. Yeah,
well let people know that this is a thing. Yeah. Or my take is like that. I don't think they do.
Do that. I don't think they tell us. I think they I think I think the government has a lot of contempt for for the citizens, I really do. I think they have contempt for our intelligence, they have contempt for our need to know things. And I also think they think that they are running us. It's not. We're all in this together and the government works for the people and the government is of the people. I don't think they think that
way. Yeah. They the the basic idea is you can't trust the populace to govern itself because we're a bunch of idiots.
I think that's accurate.
Well, they're not wrong but they're all, they're all so idiots, power-hungry
idiots. Yeah, I don't think they're on the Everyone's an idiot. But I think you're enough idiots that it becomes a real problem. If you're completely honest about everything you do and, you know, you don't want to let everybody way in about things that are incredibly complex and that most people are ignorant
of. And on top of that, there's this machine of intelligence that I've recently been reading a lot about the KGB.
About the FSB. So I've several things sparked my curiosity. So one I'm traveling to Ukraine and to Moscow and because of that, I started to sort of ask practical questions of myself, just travel and all those kinds of things just started reading a lot about the KGB Jack barsky as a book on this. I talk to him.
And you start to realize, you probably looked into some of this, but you just start to realize the scale of surveillance manipulation. Now, a lot of them also talked about the incompetence of those organizations, the usual bureaucracy Creeps in. But the point is, it seems like there's no line, they're not willing to cross for the purpose of gathering intelligence for the purpose of controlling people in order to gather intelligence
This is MI6 FSB, there's not much information about the FSB or the gru but the KGB. So we're always like 20 years behind or more on the action information as I started to wonder,
So I have not officially been contacted by any intelligence agency, but I start to wonder. Well did I is there somebody? I know that's doing that undercover CIA or undercover FSB undercover anything. You probably? Do you have, you asked yourself this question? Yeah for sure.
Yeah, people that have been on my podcast. Yeah, for sure.
I think there was actually a guest that may have been 100%. Oh
man, I would imagine
You know.
I have suspicions. Do you care? Is this?
I mean it depends on what they're attempting to do, right? Like if I felt like there was some deception involved and they were trying to use the podcast to manipulate a narrative in a deceptive way to trick people into things. Yeah, I would care
but this is exactly what those are. The kind of things they do. They do plant narratives. Yeah.
I mean, I would imagine if you have the number one podcast in the world that people would want to infiltrate that.
Yeah, there's probably meetings in all major intelligence agencies about. Okay, what are the large platforms? How do we decide? How do we spread the message?
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the thing that really emerged when we're talking about during my cancellation, that there's a clear, there's no objective analysis of this in mainstream
Media, there's a clear narratives that they're trying to push forward to whether it's to promote certain ideas or to diminish the power and reach of people who are Mavericks or people who, who are, you know, who are connected to a system that you can't compromise. That's where it gets dangerous, right? Or it gets dangerous. As when someone has the largest reach but is also completely detached and
Clearly is independent in the sense of independent thinking has on whoever he wants
but your mind can still be
manipulated. I guess I can. I mean I guess everybody could be manipulated a certain way by manipulate my own mind. I'm sure to but I also spent a lot of time thinking about what I think, you know. I don't just accept things like like the UFO thing. Like I was all-in for a while and now I'm like, man. Something smells fishy.
Gee, I'm in and I'm thinking like why here's my problem with the UFO thing. I want it to be real so bad. Yeah, that's my problem with it. I'm such a sucker. I want it to be real so bad, you know? And that's that's a problem for me because I'm aware of it. And so then I stop and think about like, what is, what is my desire for UFO? Truth to be exposed? What's because it's fun? You know,
Yeah, that's what it is. So I have a desire to for it to be real. And I mean
I've talked to I talked to a bunch of folks about this. So those with connection with DOD and they do draw lines between people that are full of shit. And people who are not, there's a lot of people in the public sphere that they say are full of shit. Yeah, sure. And they have to, kind of tell the
difference. Yeah CNN, watch them talk. What I mean if you don't need a job,
I meant on the UFO topic. So your photos certain individuals that are like, okay, they're just like using this. In fact, like people who are not full of shit, are often very quiet, right? Which is why, you know, even Bob Lazar is an interesting story because he was trying to be quiet for the longest time.
Well, he was worried about his own life according to Bob and that's why he went public with it and initially the First videos he did with George Knapp. They hid his identity. Yeah, yeah. And then he felt like that wasn't enough and he
We need to expose his own identity just to protect his
life,
which is a great story, you know, so you gotta go well, that seems so juicy. I want to buy into it and that's where I get
nervous. You don't know. You don't know who to trust,
right? Exactly. How do you
figure that out? How do you figure out who to trust in your life? You're Joe Rogan. A lot of people want to be close to you CIA agents FSB agents people that
want friends with former CIA agent. Yeah, Mike Baker has been on my podcast Bunch times allegedly.
Former think about that? These are quotes former. Yeah, I don't believe it's former it's problem. Sure, he has some connection to him. I also believe he's a good guy, but I gained a lot of very intelligent and well-informed insights from him as to how things work and, you know, I think, yeah, I'm sure he doesn't tell me everything about everything, but he's told me enough where I guess I think I can understand things better.
From talking to him about how the way you know, the elves work under the machine. What
about friends? How do you know if you can trust?
Well most of my friends are old, friends time for
the time is the thing like just going through shit together.
Yeah. And see how much gold that you know, first of all, Comics look,
you can trust Comics. Yeah. Comments were
pretty trustworthy. The good ones, the really good ones. There's not that many of us
If there's 1,000 professional comics on Earth, I'd be stunned. I'd be stunned. I don't even think there's a thousand like real professionals who you get booked all the time, headline weekends at clubs, and theaters and Arenas. And then there's levels to that, right? There's like the guys who are middle acts of kind of like barely scrape by and then like how many Headliners are there? How many like really funny Headliners that I would say? You know, if you Lex, you tell me you're going to be in Cincinnati
Daddy. Hey this person is playing at this club. Should I go see them? And like you know like how many people would I give the recommendation to and then how many people sell out theaters? How many people sell out Arenas? How many people there's not that fucking many? So those people like at the, the levels of Comedy where you did, you know, you've been doing stand-up for 20 years. Yeah, there's a certain amount of honesty and certain amount of understanding of each other that we all
have. So that that process
This is becoming a great comic is a compliment in the way like yeah. Jiu-Jitsu has humble very similar like this. You've take you've eaten so much shit that. Yeah, that that's somehow even if you're insane, if you, even if your chaotic even in the way even if you're full of shit you lie. A lot all those kinds of things underneath it. There's a good human. Yeah you could be surfaced bullshitter but unimportant things you're
trustworthy. Hopefully I mean, if you're not then people shy away from you and there are people like that to that.
Are really successful, but that are that are what I call Islands. I've talked to other comics about that, what you don't want to be an island? Because there's these people that aren't attached to the rest of the community, and they're doing well on their own. And usually, they have, like, one opening act, they bring with them on the road. They've worked with forever, and they don't have comedy friends, and they're those people are miserable,
because they can't relate, sometimes, Fame in itself, as isolating. Very, so you have to actually do a lot of work and make sure you don't.
It doesn't isolate you just if you become successful, people start wanting stuff from you. Yes. And then sometimes you want to push them away because of that as opposed to connect with them.
Yeah, I don't enjoy it. When people want things from me, it's not fun, just ignore it. Yeah, it's fucking too heavy. They want too much. It's too much of a disproportionate relationship. You know, it's too unbalanced because there are people you could tell that they're working.
Towards something they're working towards an angle and they want to be close to you because you'll you will benefit them. And then there's other people that are just there's not that many of us. And so we all want to hang out together like when I one of the podcasts I love the most, is this podcast? I do call protect our Parks. It's a thing I do with Ari, shaffir, Shane Gillis, and mark the last great. It's so fun because we just get obliterated and we talk so much shit like there's conversations after that.
That's why I go hey man we got to cut that part out. Yeah. Because like Shane will go to Fargo to crazy but we're just making each other laugh and it's just fun and it's like that kind of camaraderie between real Comics is very precious to me. My
favorite part of that is like the non sequitur stuff for Mark Normand and you guys get so trashed that you don't even understand what the hell he's talking about. But it's funny to The Listener because he's still on point that. Yes. A Sharpie. So good. Mitch Hedberg quality? Yes. Well
he's
Such a such a dedicated comic, you know, he loves comedy so much, one of the things I love about him. He's like, comedy, he gets decided that he loves it as to Shane. And as those are ya, you know, they really love it and it's that's so so there's that like I have friends in that way and I have martial arts friends, who are some of the also the thing about being humbled, how things like Jiu-Jitsu will humble you, martial arts. Friends are there. Also they know.
They know who's been through it, you know, they know who's who really has gone through the gauntlet and emerged on the other end, a better person.
Yeah, he said, there's very few of us. Let's have the goat discussion. You're not going to pick anybody, but who are the Great's of Comedy, who's the, who's the, who's the greatest comic of all time?
Well, there I don't think there is a greatest comic of all time. Is that narrow? Donald Norman? Donald was one of the greats for sure.
But by the way, actually, on that topic. What?
But what do you think about is? I think as a person who is fascinated by the fear of death and death? I think it was a truly genius thing to release a special after you're dead.
I don't know how that works. I haven't seen the
special of you. It's not. Yeah, it's it's called I think nothing special
but it sounds like something noises
and it's basically him in front of, I mean, I imagine he wouldn't have wanted it edit it that way because
It's made to look nicer than I think. He probably would have preferred it but it's him in front of the screen like on a zoom call doing jokes without lap cold. Really? Yeah. And somehow given is like dry dark humor, it works because it's almost making fun of itself. Almost making fun of that hole that we were stuck stuck alone inside. And because
is he still acting as if he's in front of the audience and is almost making fun of the fact that this is what we're forced to do, and he's quite genius, it's really wild and the jokes are really good, but it also makes you realize how important laughter is from the audience, the energy from the audience. Because, but there's that's also an intimacy because it's just you and him because you're listening it to, you know, there's no audience. Yeah. So that's I don't know. It's I think it's quite genius and he is, of course, there's certain Comics. They're like,
Not only are they funny but they're truly unique in like they're they're they're not in terms of friendship and all that kind of stuff, but in terms of Comedy there an island. Yeah, sick day. You know, Mitch Hedberg probably is that first of all, a lot of people that start to imitate them and so on. But even right Steve. All right. I mean there's like people who are like, you know, Dave Chappelle who's like probably one of the greats but he's legit.
Like raw funny. Yeah, I don't know if he's an island, he's just raw.
Yeah. I know what you're saying. Outlier unique individual. Yeah, he's just great Norm was definitely unique in his greatness. Like you like there's only one Norm, you know who's got a very specific style? Is there
a reason you guys weren't? He doesn't seem like he was, you guys were close, and I loved them
was great. I always enjoyed talking to him. We just didn't work together. That often we were wearing around each other that often, that's all it was.
But it wasn't like it was. I loved him though. He was great guy. I have a funny story about it Norm twice, just randomly I was on airplanes next to him. Yeah. Seated. Right next to him. Just totally random. Yeah. And one time we're on this airplane and we're having this talk and I was like, yeah, quit Smokin. It was a small gonna widen, I just had a terrible, terrible smoke. It's terrible for you and we have this great conversation. We get off the plane and he
He Sprint's towards a store and buy cigarettes like in the airport and is lighting it on the way out the door and I go I thought you quit smoking those yeah dead but all that talking about smoking. Maybe you want to smoke again.
So he said before, he's getting through the door, the airport, he's lighting it up. I can't wait, he can't wait to get that cigarette in him. It was, he's just so crazy and impulsive and love to gamble. Love
gambling. And in that way, he embodied the joke, but you can't even tell the certain people just like live in a non sequitur.
Ridiculous absurd funny way.
Yeah, that was him. I mean non-stop just there was nothing artificial about it Norm. You know that that was who he was his Brilliance, was his Essence. I was who he was
you know
but it's in terms of like the great. The Godfather of it all is Lenny Bruce. I mean I have a bunch of Lenny, Bruce concert posters at my house and photos that I have framed and Whitney Cummings actually gave me this.
Photo of him when he got arrested. For one of the times when he got arrested for saying obscene jokes, he was the most important figure in the early days of Comedy because he essentially gave birth to the modern art form of stand-up comedy. Before that it was a bunch of guys that were like hosting shows and they would tell jokes, they were just like, you know, you know, two guys walk into a bar that kind of stuff. Yeah, and he would talk about
Social issues. You know, he would talk about life. He would talk about language, he would talk about laws and it was just, he was the very first guy who did modern stand up and what's fascinating is if you go and you try to watch it if you try to watch Lenny Bruce today, it doesn't work because Society has evolved like in many ways art is a window especially like popcorn.
Sure, our modern. You know, at the time culture art art that discusses culture is a window into that time period. It's a little bit of a time machine. So you get to like you have to pull yourself. Like what was it like to be in 1963, like what was he set in 1963? What was this like to hear him say this and the civilization that existed in 1963? Although it looked
Pretty similar, they're all driving cars and they're all wearing suits and they're all, it seems normal. That's a, it's a different world and the things that he was saying that are so taboo are so normal today. That they're not shocking and it's not. Not that good. It's not that
funny. Yeah, you have to do the same kind of stuff for like. There's a DH Lawrence is a book called Lady Shadow is lover. And I know it sounds ridiculous, but it was one of the early books I believe at the
That over a century ago, that was very controversial for its sexual content, it's sort of one of the great books because it dared to actually talk about a woman cheating on her husband and like, and do so in the highest form and the same thing with Gulag archipelago talking about. So talking about some of the darkest aspects of human history, right? When all of that stuff is forbidden, hmm, when it's band cause now it's like not, you know, yes we all know this history. But when in the
The middle of it when you risking your own life when you're risking your book being banned or burned or you being in prison, that's what it matters like taking that
risk. Yeah. And no one took that risk more than Lenny. Bruce Lenny, Bruce was arrested many many times and ultimately he wound up. Costing him his life and he died on the bathroom floor, shooting heroin and trying to cope with all the lawsuits that he was going through. He was kind of was constantly being arrested and constantly going through.
Suits and then is is comedy, deteriorated horribly. There's some footage of him towards the end of his career where he's essentially, we go on stage with legal papers, and read from the legal papers, about his case, from then, it's Richard Pryor from him. Then the next great is Richard Pryor, and he had the most profound impact on me, when I was a kid. When I was 15 years old. My parents took me to see live at the Sunset Strip, which is a Richard Pryor's concert film. And I remember very distinctly being in that,
Audience and laughing and looking around at all. The people in the audience who were like falling out of their chairs, just dying laughing, just swaying back and forth and I was laughing hard to and I was like my God this guy's doing this just by talking. I thought of all the great movies that I'd seen that, I love that were hilarious, comedy movies, and I was like nothing that I've ever seen is this funny as this and all he's doing is talking and that planted a
Did my head for my love of stand-up comedy and my curiosity about the art form. And that's what got me interested in, you know, watching on television. And then ultimately going to open mic nights, and then eventually doing it.
I've actually been going to open mics a lot recently. Just listening
for psychological examinations of people
know. I'm actually really inspiring to me to see people that you know some are funny. Some are not so funny.
Unapologetically trying. Yeah, putting it all out there night after night like eating shit. Yeah, my favorite is when you know you're talking about like five people in the audience and the the jokes are just not Landing.
And they still, I don't know it feels like even just empathetically there's few things as difficult as that is hard. I
still remember liar days, many Comics will say this and I think Dane Cook was the first person I heard say it publicly that if he ever had to go back and do it again like from scratch doesn't think you could do it, doesn't thinking could endure the struggle of open mic to you know ultimately to success and the numbers.
People that try it and fail versus try and succeed are off the charts. I don't know if there's any other art form that has such a low rate of success,
because it's like a logic, it's torture. It is torture. And
it's also not something you can learn, like, here's the thing. Like, if you you play guitar, you can learn to play guitar. Someone can teach you the chords. And if you do it and you could, you could do All Along the Watchtower. You could play it.
You can't teach someone how to do comedy.
You think it's, you're funny or not or can you can you still figure it out like, you still
learn it figured out. Yeah.
Can you start on fun again? You start being unfunny? Yeah, and become
funny. Yes, it's possible. It's not easy though.
You can eat healthy
lot of shit. Even have to eat a lot of shit and you're going to have to examine why you're not funny. And you're going to have to spend a lot of time with uncomfortable, thoughts, and try to figure out.
What it is like, what's missing like, you know, and could you edit your stuff and make it better? It's you. Maybe you need to do drugs, maybe you need to get involved in psychedelic drugs and rethink the way you interface with reality itself. Maybe you need your heart broken, maybe you need to be in love, maybe it was a lot of maybes there, like maybe just need more life experience, but, you know, when I started comedy, I was 21 and I was a moron. I had no information, you know.
No, I could do impressions of people and I could talk about sex. Yeah, those are the things that I was interested in back. Then I dot. I mean, if I was talking philosophically, I don't know, I didn't philosophy. I don't have a unique perspective on life. I hadn't experienced
much, so, every time you bomb it, forces you to introspect to yeah, questions yourself. And then that's how you actually develop a philosophy. Yeah. Well you actually
believe you learn through doing and I think you could say that about podcasting too.
Certainly way better at having conversations than I ever was. When I first started doing comedy, or we excuse me, when I first started doing
podcasts, you learn stick with it kid, because one day, you'll be able to view Donald Trump. You've been mad enough to handle that conversation, how hard is it to do? Because I've been really curious that it's been on my bucket list because I'm terrified. I want to do everything. I'm terrified of you stand up. No. Oh, but I do want to do, like, 15 minutes.
Like Open Mic,
why are you do kill Tony?
How hard is it to do? Five minutes, would you say it's hard?
Well, it depends on. You know, how long you been thinking about doing comedy? It depends on how you look at things and also depends on your style of Comedy. Like, the most difficult style of Comedy is like, I think like, Steven Wright style is probably the most difficult style of Comedy complete non sequiturs? One subject doesn't lead into the next, there's no flow to it. It's just I noticed this. I noticed that and then there's this
Then there's that and that that's hard to memorize and it's really hard to piece together an hour of non sequiturs
but it's easier because you can rely on the job it's more with the joke like whether you're funny or not is on the on the actual material versus like the timing and the the energy, the dance of the audience, right? Because like if you don't have the raw jokes like see all right does or Mitch Hedberg then you have to
It's all about the
delivery. Yeah and yeah, that they either kill or that bomb.
Is it random like whether the killer
bomb? Yeah. Well, in the beginning, I mean, you're essentially a different person every day of your life. You know, your similar but you're more tired. You're more rested, you're exhausted, you're refreshed. You have vitamins and food nourishment your system. You just had your heart broken. You haven't slept in days. You're a different person all the time.
And you go onto that stage, you're in the neighborhood of who Lex Friedman is here in the Lex frieden table. Which lacks Friedman. Am I gonna get? Yeah you know I don't see levels.
Yeah, it depends it all depends but oh the other thing with kill Tony is it's videotaped.
It's yeah. So you eating shit is on there forever forever, world can see it, but it's one of the most important shows in common. It's the most important show in comedy.
Because first of all, it's stablish has stand-up in a sense that like for the open Microsoft for the people that are starting it out, it establishes that the most important thing is to be funny like this is what the art form is all about. And there's a lot of insecurity attached that a lot of fears and so to alleviate some of those insecurities and fears, people will decide that the message is more important and they'll pretend that, you know, like you have to have
Like, you have to have.
You have to be socially aware that you have to promote things that are positive in your comedy, which is bullshit. There aren't the people that say that, they're all bad, they're all bad at comedy and that's where the insecurity is. It's like they can't just kill. So they have to pretend that they're supposed to be socially, aware that being socially aware as an important part in to society, like let me explain something. Really clearly it's not a fucking person on Earth who's ever changed their life because
Of a joke. That's not what they're there for. They're there for jokes. The people that say that they say, there's say that socially important comedy is the only comedy, that's necessary. The only comedy that you have to do that is just because they suck. Yeah, that is it. It's like the cop out is that they can't do the real comedy. They can't Crush. It's not like someone goes from being, you know, take a look. Shane. Gillis one of the best Comics up-and-coming right now. He's fucking fantastic. I can't recommend enough. See
that guy live. I work with him in Irvine and I hadn't seen like, it's whole set. I was crying. I mean, he's so good. I heard he's a
racist. So, ah, I haven't listened to his material. No,
he's so good. And his comedy is just all just trying to be as funny as possible. There's not a chance in hell that guys. Just going to go woke and it's just going to start promoting some sort of, you know, socially conscious agenda that's you know, facetious and
Just a bunch of nonsense that he's trying to elevate his own personal brand and virtue signal. That's not going to happen. The thing about killed Tony is in that because you only have one minute and because it's live and because you don't want Tony shitting on your body on shooting on everybody's just gearing up to try to be as funny as possible and no one cares if you are gay or straight or Asian or black or trans or non-binary, nobody gives a fuck
Are you funny? If you're funny, you're in and everybody loves you. You could be 80, you could be 20. Nobody gives a shit. You could be a woman or a man or ambiguous. Nobody fucking cares. Are you funny? And that's the most important thing for a community of Comedy to really promote. Comedy, just funny. Just be funny. And so, in that sense, kill Tony is a real Cornerstone of
common. It's a reminder. What comedy supposed to be? Yeah, that's Eddie.
Even the funny like the funniest stuff has underneath it, some wisdom sure's out of it, but that's not the primary goal of it. Yeah, I
mean, my doing hiring and fun, Tim Dylan's a great example that. Yeah, he's got some amazing insights
in his comedy but still it's all about fucking comedy. It's all about the funny.
Yeah, it's all the funny he's got, he's the best at doing that, especially in a podcast form, but weaving like really important points in with hilarious, you know, obviously
Lee just you know just jokes
me ask you speaking of Tim Dylan chaotic fucked up individual. We go to your childhood real quick, a brief stroll, so your mom and dad split up when you were five.
From a, from a jungian perspective, if you look at your subconscious what impact do you think that had on? You inform me who you are as a man, as a human
being? Well, I thought the time I thought that my father was like, hero. You know, he was my dad. I think every kid thinks like that about his dad, his dad is like, your dad's, your protector. Your dad is like the coolest guy in the world. That's what you like. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody wanted to be like their dad especially if your dad is
Like, an imposing figure. I remember one time. Me and my cousin got in a fight over. Nothing. It was like over. Who's tougher? King Kong Godzilla.
Yeah, over nothing. That's an important. But yeah,
Edge. He said actual fight actual thought I punched him in the face and
this is when you're like
five. Yeah. And so which side were you on King
Kong? Okay.
I was wrong because it looks like any bigger. Yeah, 500 feet tall and shoots.
Fire out of his mouth.
Yeah, yeah, you sure. I mean there's there's an argument to be made. It's not all about size, right?
No, there's no argument to be made 500 feet, tall versus 50 feet. Tall ones, a gigantic dinosaur one is a stupid monkey who gets shot down by a plane. You don't think you can't kill Rod Zilla. Zilla like no back, no you can't kill Godzilla with a plane like that shit. When working Godzilla killed King Kong,
King Kong in the new movies. Kept growing is getting bigger and bigger. You got to the point where he's as big as
Godzilla, it just feels like King Kong is stronger. Stop
back. Pay back to take immediate back. Take
you don't think there's a back take this is a different if he's the same size, human weapons and two animals going at it of a different size. You don't think there's in the jungle, a smaller animal, could take on a bigger animal, you got monkey versus a
Let's see, a lion monkey versus a bear. What? Who wins a monkey versus none of my hair, and then a monkey, what's the strongest ape? Now, but gorilla seat. Okay, gorilla can't do back takes, I'm thinking of like a smaller, you know saying because you just you see
this all the time. You remember that scene in Talladega Nights. Do you know Talladega? Yeah. Where the the little boys talking is Grandpa I'll be all over you like a spider monkey exactly spider monkey. I was thinking
All right, some animals. Like here's a better example, a wolverine Wolverines Chase, wolves and bears off of their kills and they're not very big at all. They just so ferocious, and they're so durable. Like, it's very hard to kill a
wolverine. Yeah. And this video is of, like cats, like, not actual killer domestic cats or, or domestic dogs. Starting shit with much larger animals. Yeah. And if they're ferocious enough,
well pit bulls are great example. That pit bulls are small.
Grill game. Brad Pit Bulls are like 35 45 pounds and they'll kill much larger
dogs. Anyway, you are on King Kong side. Yeah, so she's out of your
cousin. I remember, he said to me like I thought it was in like real trouble because I remember my cousin's. Mom was yelling at me and was like you monster all this crazy shit. So my dad got me alone and he said tell me what happened and I told him you know, we got in a fight.
And we're arguing or King Kong Godzilla. And I punched him in the face and he goes, did you cry? I go now, he goes good. Don't ever cry.
And I remember that like, whoa, okay, and I remember thinking, alright, I'm just going to start punching people because like, obviously my dad thinks it's a good idea. If I go running around punching people songs, I don't cry like it though. I remember certain things about, you know, and also like this is a again like we were talking about
Watching Lenny Bruce in getting a timeline of what the world was like back. Then, this is a different world. Yeah, you know, and then in 1970, this would be in 1972. It's a different world back then, man. Like a really different world
is some of that. So, call, Young talked about the shadow, it's the unconscious where you have dark stuff, and often times used project their stuff that you're very self-critical about yourself.
Because it's in your unconscious, you use it to project onto others, you see it as flaws and others and that's a good way to like whatever it gives a quote like everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves. Hmm. So that's a that's a nice way to investigate yourself like something that pisses you off.
He started asking questions of your own mind and that's how you bring it to the surface. But anyway from that, those are the formative years from that time. Is there still stuff in your unconscious? You think given examined some dark shit. I don't think so,
I don't I'm not aware if it is because I've looked you know, like if someone gets you know, some says, you know, I I left something over your house. Like where'd you leave it? I don't know. Like I'll go look yeah I get a get a
Thorough look, I'm pretty sure, pretty sure it's not there. Yeah, I don't know. I think I've looked I mean it certainly had enough. I think the positive effect also was compounded by the fact. That when my mother married, my stepdad who's a great guy
It was a hippie, very different. We moved around a lot, and so the bad thing about that was I didn't really develop long-term friends. The good thing about that was that I was forced to develop my own opinions about things. Instead of adopting an opinion of the neighborhood in the group about anything. I was forced to form my own thoughts and opinions about almost everything. And so it made me much more of an independent thinker. So that on top
The fact that, you know, losing you know, my quote, unquote, hero very early on and then having to form my own opinions about things. It left me with a very, very independent streak, you know, in terms of and, and if I hadn't done the things that I got interested in martial arts and then, and then comedy, if I hadn't gotten interested in those things, I would have been fucked because I was just too independent for normal jobs.
I was too independent for school. I just didn't want to listen to people, I was to Farrell. I just didn't want to didn't want to sit still if I was with the wrong parents, especially today, I most certainly would have been medicated
Yeah, there's so many possible trajectories you can imagine where you would have not been the person you are today. Oh yeah. This
is probably one of the
best pots. You're living this unit. The this particular story line you're living through is one of the better
ones. This timeline is as good as it gets for someone
is there advice you can give to People Too Young, Too Young kids that are living through a shitty situation of any sort of tough life? Find a thing you
like,
Like try to find a thing that you really enjoy. Try to find a thing that you're passionate about, like an activity. Yes, for me early on it was drawing. It was illustrations. It was a comic books. I wanted to be a comic book illustrator and then it went from comic book drawing and illustrations to martial arts. So, but it was just another thing that I was very, very passionate about.
And that was my vehicle out of my dilemma. That was my vehicle out of my, my own anxiety, and Trauma, and my own issues and insecurities. And
Find something. Find a thing that you genuinely enjoy, because getting good at things, you genuinely, enjoy is extremely beneficial for young people. Because it lets, you know that like everybody thinks they're a loser. Every young person thinks they're a loser, at least a young person in the situation. I was at Ike, I didn't know, I wasn't a loser until I started winning until I started doing martial arts. Martial arts, taught me that like I could get better at stuff that it was affecting
I wasn't really a loser. I just was someone who was, like, in a fucked-up situation but you could Channel all that energy that you have as a young person into something and get better at it. And then also in people admired me, I was like, this is crazy. So I went from being someone who was incredibly insecure and basically a failure to someone who is really successful at this one thing that was very dangerous, that other people are scared of. And that gave me immense,
Confidence. And also a real understanding of the direct correlation between hard work and
success. And kind of understanding that you're not a loser, right? That there is some diamond in the
rough. Yeah, and also understand that you can't listen to people because even my parents didn't want me to do. Martial arts, they didn't want me to fight. They didn't want me to do stand-up. There's like, you have to understand like who you are. And then in the face of other people's either.
Criticism or, you know, lack of faith in your ability to succeed, you push through and there's great benefit in that. And then you realize that that you can kind of apply that to other things in life. You can apply that to critics you can apply that to social media. Commentators, you can apply that to a lot of things.
Okay. What about
Young people in their 50s. Yeah. Can you give advice to like, imagine you're sitting. You're sitting back, probably still here in Texas and your 90s looking back. What advice would that guy give to you today or like people? You know, people that have done some shit in their 50s. You've gone through how the life. There's potentially some incentive to settle down. You got a great family to relax,
Um, but maybe there's some incentive to still do epic shit. Still be Devon Goggins, running in the middle of the desert. Yeah, shit into a
camera. If you're David Goggins, you have to be David Goggins. I don't think there's a path for that guy that exists at this stage of his life. Other than that,
you think he'll be 70 and still screaming? Yes. Okay,
100% 100%. If David and I are alive both, we're both 70, he's gonna call me.
I'm say, stay hard motherfucker. Guaranteed guaranteed
saline, into whatever the fuck you are at this
point. Well, if you're enjoying it, but if you're not enjoying it rethink your life, try to figure out why. Your why you're not enjoying
it. He's still think it's possible to shift things in your
50s. Yeah. If you're alive you can get better. Yeah. What? Yeah. No matter what. If you're alive you can shift things. I mean, if you're 90 years old and you know, you have a month to live, you could apologize for the things you think you did wrong.
Maybe sort of reconcile and and shape relationships, you have with the people that are around you better so that they feel differently about you after you're gone.
Yeah, I was loved people in their 70s for like, like, getting back into dating or something like that. Yeah, always
watching a video about a woman is in her 60s to just start
powerlifting. Nice. Yeah. And saying, would you just so you see people get into just a hmm. Yeah. Oh yeah. A white belt. That's like 70.
Yeah, yeah. There's a
A lot of, if you're alive, you can get better at stuff. And I don't think people are happy if they don't have puzzles and complex tasks and things that are interesting to them, whether it's an art project or whether it's learning, something completely new like stand-up comedy, like doing things that are difficult is it's as much of a nourishment of the Mind as food is a
Nourishment of the body. I think you need things that that our puzzling to you, where you have to find your own human potential in the difficulty of the task and and work your way through things. At least for me for me. I mean I can only speak for me because I'm the only time the only life that I've ever lived and I'm aware of and in my life that has been 100% constant, I am a very
happy person and I have never had a moment where I'm not doing difficult shit. Yeah, ever.
What matters most is, how well you walk through the fire. So you just keep starting Fires for yourself the walkthrough,
well, they don't necessarily have to be fires, right? Because fires are like kind of out of control, lukewarm
asks, the surfaces
tasks, give yourself something an arduous difficult task, where you're challenged challenged mentally and challenged physically.
One of the great things about being challenged physically as it's also mental, the people that don't understand that. If never really been challenged physically people that think that physical challenges are just like just physical, it's just brute grunt work, it's not, it's emotional intelligence. It's understanding your desired, quit under, you know, conquering your inner bitch, all that stuff is it's mental, it's playing out inside your head and there's a mental
Strength that you acquire from that that you can apply to intellectual Pursuits. And the people that don't think that or the people that haven't attempted them and there's an arrogance to people that only pursue intellectual exercise is only pursue intellectual things and don't pursue anything physical that the physical stuff is based. It's grunt work, it's Primal, it's not necessary. I don't think that's accurate. I don't think that there.
I mean obviously these people like Stephen Hawking's who have no opportunity to do anything physical right, his physical dilemmas keeping us or was keeping his heart beating. But for most people, I think you can really benefit from physical struggle and you benefit from it in a mental way and I think that is overlooked. That's unfortunately, overlooked by academics and intellectuals who they make excuses for why they're fat and lazy or
Ronnie what they don't need to be. It's not even about the fat or all that. It's like, literally, there's something about the physical challenge. That's really good for you, especially if you academic, especially if you do intellectual types though, there's this great roboticist that MIT rust tedric he runs Barefoot to and from my mighty every day, I love it like seven. Seven to ten miles. Each way Barefoot Barefoot. Well he's he studies legged Locomotion, legged, robots for him. It's also interesting.
Thing? How the human body moves? He sees the beauty and all of move in all movement. What do his feet look like, you know, calloused destroyed, right? No, just calloused, they're nice. They're, they were nice. That it's not like I gave him a foot massage, but, but I mean, they look and I don't have a foot fetish, so I don't, I'm not able to correctly. Invest evaluate another man's feet. I apologize for this, but they don't look fucked up.
Just here, on on
concrete.
Eat. Yeah, he runs all surfaces
and he does everything completely bare
foot, the Running part at work. So one of the things he has to do is fit into society, which means he has to change clothes and appear
normal, right? So this is where like xero shoes, you know? Those now he's not. What type of shoes?
No, because that's like very happy woky type of thing. No, like he doesn't, he's Barefoot, when he's running and then he wears like normal-looking stuff like
dress, she's working
Way up to running Barefoot.
So, he was significantly overweight and his advisor. This this other famous person are Mighty who was a roboticist took his own life, and that made him, that made rest face his own mortality. I think, I mean, the, you start to ask big questions about your well being like, holy shit. That's right. Can end at any moment. And so he started taking his sort of physical well-being, seriously. But
But as a result of that not, did he become like shredded? But he's also discovered the intellectual value. The Humbling value of physical exercise. Hmm, he's not preach about it all. I don't think I actually rarely hear him advise it to anyone. He just does it as a as a almost like meditation or something like that. It's definitely a
form of meditation and you can attest that, right? You don't quite a bit of running, there's a thing about
Again, you kind of almost like a mantra gets formed and you get into
it. It was great here in the Austin. Heat hundred degree weather.
Mmm. Yeah, that test you. You know what I love to do outside pull sleds? That's my thing. Have to pull sleds outside in the heat? Yeah, yeah, I love it.
So you're also your wife is incredible urine relationship. What in you're married? You have a great family. What advice would you give
To me until there's like me. Who are dumb fucks? And and I have not
found Dave when you're a great guy. So this definitely doesn't necessarily apply to you. But be someone who someone would want to be in a relationship with. There's a lot of people out there that want a great partner. They want someone in a relationship, but why would someone want to be in a relationship with you? You know, maybe you bicker a lot, maybe you're jealous. Maybe, you, maybe lie, maybe you.
Home. Baby, you're cruel. Maybe are you don't have a sense of humor maybe you're, you know, you're not kind like what is what is it about you? That people would not enjoy being around or the people avoid fix that
was it this this applies to me as well. Like you said something with campaigns? One of the things you admire is the the discipline takes to sort of Juggle so many things and just successfully. I'm not sure I'm very good at
that. So juggling, all
All this hard work and then also a
relationship. Also relationship also family, all. Yes, because it priorities, I mean that requires having your shit together,
it does. It's a different thing but it's also you got to find the right person. There's a lot of people who self, they settle for sexy, settle for hot
for settle for the wrong
person. Like, you can get hot and nice, they're out there. Yeah, but don't get hot in mean, hot means not fun. Then you get Amber Heard.
Yeah, you know, and then your intercourse right?
Yeah.
Yeah,
you can be deceived by Perfect
symmetry so you don't think it's a good idea to record your partner. I think
you drive or tall conversations that's the CIA is doing it. No matter what I assume that every conversation I have is recorded because I'm pretty sure it is
even when we had dinner with Alex Jones. He was recording. I
still remember that a lot of no no those are Gordon huh? He might be you know what'd be funny if he is the CIA. We could be could be that busy.
That's my advice about relationships is be somebody and then also like find someone who you can grow with, right? You don't want to be with someone who doesn't share your your value. Someone you don't want to be with someone who makes excuses. You don't want to be with someone who's lazy or whose spiteful you want to be with someone who's like genuinely kind. That's one of the things that I really love about my wife and she's very smart and she works
She's like she's a dedicated disciplined person, which is also really nice. That's why I wanted things. I like them all spider. She's so nice. She's always smiling.
And that energy is
great. Yeah. I mean you've seen us together. Yeah. You've hung around with us. She's fun.
Yeah, she's like fun. Yeah, she makes, you just feel great to be alive with that. People like that around you.
She's happy. She's a happy person, she's happy to be around. That's the kind of people that you could have in your life as friends and as co-workers, and as lovers and wives. And husbands, you can find those people they're real and when you find those people, your life is better like to have a good tribe, is very important.
Have a good tribe of people, you know, and I think if there's anything that I'm very, very fortunate about, it's the the people that I'm around, I have very good friends and one of which is you, it's so valuable to have quality people around you because it makes you want to do better because you admire the hard work. These people put in like my campaigns or Goggins or many of my friends and people that are generous and people that
Are curious and people that are honest, they inspire you to do the same and it's extremely valuable. It's one of the most most valuable things is, to surround yourself with positive healthy friendly, generous people.
That's why I cut out. Tim Dillon, for my laptop broke up with him. He's not married. No, it's over. It's none of those things. The Texas non-stop, then the nonstop, conspiracy theories, the non-stop Ma
King of my Eastern European Origins. It's just not healthy for me. Plus, he's physically abusive and towering figure. Both emotion, physically
know. I love them. Okay. Worked out. He would be a house. He's got. Break a large frame, you know?
So if I interview Putin, what should I ask
him? How's the cancer? How's it doin, buddy? That's question.
Over one in Russian. Do you think he has cancer?
I don't think
so that the narrative is terrifying, right? Dictator of the largest nuclear Arsenal in the world who also has cancer and he just invaded a sovereign country. That's a terrifying narrative because that's what we're all afraid of someone who has nothing to lose, who just decides to let loose in here.
Well, I do think maybe it's projecting but if I had cancer or if you think about leaders that have cancer you're facing your own mortality.
I would think you would be more focused on his legacy and the dropping nuclear bomb is not good for legacy. I, I do believe he wants to be remembered as a great leader as a lot of leaders do as a lot of even dictators do. And I think he wants to figure out a way to pull out a win. So he can say that the whatever this thing was whatever this invasion was was good for Russia, was good for the nation.
He ultimately made it a greater Nation than it was before and perhaps you could justify an escalation of War to be
that. Hmm, But I
don't and it's just the cancer thing concerns me so much. Because it's been so often part of this propaganda has been told about Putin, the he's sick. I don't know why that it's always people. Kind of wonder that a lot about especially dictators. But you had that even like with Hillary Clinton and obviously with Biden,
There it is stickier. So for some
people think that the narrative is transparent yet
obvious, but the degree of it is a question with Biden. As is with with, with everyone. Like what's, you know, how healthy is this leader? That's right. People.
Sure, always, they were doing that about Trump to the thing about Putin. Those like his appearance is altered where he looks very bloated. His body doesn't look much bigger. But his face looks like puffy and swollen. I had a friend
who had sarcoidosis and they prescribed prednisone, which is a type of steroid. And one of the things that would happen when he was on it is he would his face would get really big. It was like he would blow up like a swell up and maintain a lot of water and inflammation and that's what it looks like when I'm looking at
loses actually. Like if you're sitting with him, one questions about health that's has
Biden business, that kind of question, not like without mockery with who is
going to Fox News. Look, the mainstream media, treats him with kid gloves in a way that I've never seen. It's so obvious. There's something horribly wrong with his cognitive function.
Well, I had to push back, I don't know if it's horribly wrong. You don't think it's wrong. I think it's no, I think there's uncertainty to which degree is wrong. I would love to there to be a serious like conversation about.
Out with him. In fact, I actually have to now look because, of course, Fox News Will Mock his like, decree declining, yes, mental health, and then I would love it. Like surfing objective discussion. Are you aware of this? Are you like, what are you putting in place? Are you yourself? Is, if I was a person with a declining mental abilities, like you have to start? Yes. I start thinking about that kind of stuff, like, who is around?
You, who, advisors what? If you start stop being able to see the world? Clearly, yeah, I would be transparent about that kind of stuff.
Well, you would be but you're also would never be a politician.
Yeah, because you're too fucking honest. Well, yeah, but actually from a conversation perspective, it would be nice if that kind of discussion was
that it would be. But all jokes aside with Putin, I would ask questions
about
Democracy versus what they have. I mean, without without any disparaging descriptions of what is going on over in Russia. It's clearly not a democracy. It's they I mean the way he has it set up. The elections are a joke. He's
so he would put back this not clearly not democracy. He is still very popular. So majority of people are huge supporters of Putin inside Russia.
The, he, the, the people that push back against, that would say that. That's because, Amy serious opposition is pushed out of the country. Yeah. So I guess competition murdered. Yeah, so, but yes, that's a really, really good question.
The the value of dictatorships, one of the things about the United States, that's fascinating to me, is that every four years unless it's, it's 48 years, right? Someone does two terms but every four years, There's an opportunity for
To be new and completely inexperienced at the most difficult job in the world.
Which is ridiculous. So, the interesting thing
is,
It actually makes sense after eight years, you'll gain the wisdom. Yeah, you would actually be a pretty good leader to keep going. Yeah. The but there is some problem where you, the power gets started. Getting deer head. Yeah, and so, like from Putin's perspective, I think he genuinely wants the best for Russia. I don't think he's lost his mind in terms of like it's all about greed and so on. Same as Stalin I think Stalin until the end of his days. Wanted the best for the Soviet Union. So it's not like you become Hitler.
Lost his mind during the war like where it was like he wasn't seeing clearly at all. What Putin believes is that he is actually the best person to bring out the best for his country. Now, the problem is maybe refreshing. The leader is in fact in the long term, The Best Thing, versus every leader believes, they know what's best for the country. Well, the point is to keep refreshing it. Well, and that's the case for democracy. That's the case for the system. We have that
Dates natural, maybe emergent balance of power.
I think it makes it evident that there is no clear-cut real, right way to do it and that if you had the perfect person in having them for 12, 20 years, would be amazing. If you had a perfect benevolent leader, who clearly only cared about the people was doing their best and striving hard. And got great satisfaction, knowing that he is a dedicated civil servant. That only
Wants to lead the country in a way that's going to benefit the most people in the most profound way. But we have a dirty political system that's completely corrupted by money completely corrupted by influence the fact that you know the lobbyists I mean there's an area outside of Washington DC. It's one of the richest areas in the country and it's where the lobbyists live. There's so much money involved being a lobbyist. There's so much money.
Be involved in special interest groups and how much of an impact they have on who gets elected and what decisions get made. Once a person gets elected, we know this, right? We know it's not for the People by the people, it's just not what it is. I mean this country is an experiment in self-government and if we could do it all over again. I would say the most important thing is to have laws in place to keep money out of politics and to make it a hand.
Crime for someone to influence laws and policy based entirely on the amount of profit, it could generate for a party or for a company that is investing in a candidate. That's fucking incredibly dangerous and it's corrupt and that corruption has been accepted. We've just accepted that. It's this corruption exists. You know,
last question.
If Putin asks to see this watch, what do I tell them? What would you give it? Which should I should I let him see it? Because we know what happens with a Super Bowl ring.
I think a super will bring is unique. He could buy a watch like that. Yeah, pretty easy. You
know. But this particular isn't that a power move. Yeah. But this is the watch. You gave me. Yes story. Yes, I'll probably share it with him.
The story and then maybe you go looking to see this watch. Yeah. And then he puts it on, it's okay. Thank you.
You say no
you go like this. Yeah, there it is bro, bro. No thanks. So many words, I went out to find translations
buddy, bro.
I guess Bros brother. I mean, if he takes your watch, I'll buy you another one. If couldn't feels it. Keep them going. I just, I'll just give you the same exact
watch. Well, first of all, thank you for this - I really wanted to
to talk to you because in a couple of days to leaving to Ukraine and Russia and I hope I'll be back in one piece and drink whiskey with you once again and yeah, I
hope so too. I'm nervous about you going over there. You know. I know journalists have been killed now.
Yes. But they don't know. Jujitsu. No, I think it'll be it'll be okay. And I think there's certain things you do in life that just kind of your heart pulls towards that so much with your
over there
I'm not somebody who thinks about objectives clearly it's just something about me says I need to go there but the put in loose words is to
To try to understand what that world is now. So I remember what it was years ago when I was there and I know my family. I know the generations of family that was there on that land in Ukraine and in Russia and the soul of the people, the love, that's there, the beauty of the culture. And I want to see what it is today, and what this war has created, both the anger and the love and the people, and just hear them out and just talk to them.
No recordings done of that, maybe a little here and there, but mostly just for me and just to see, I don't know this. Sometimes it's just, it's something pulls you to, to a place. And I also because I'm able to speak Russian and some Ukrainian, I do want to try to have these a cup of the political leaders involved talk to them and I have all the right connections. Everybody has said yes, of course you don't know the likelihood that finally happens but
But I want to at least have that possibility there. We sometimes you have to go to a place to really understand it. You can just read about it. You can't just talk to the people that are living there. You have to be there and I've never been in a war zone. I've never been in, in a land that's been damaged and wiped by the weapons of war, and I just want to feel that because so much of that land is I remember, you know, I remember,
When everything was flourishing. Yes corruption. All those kinds of things but people were there and the culture was flourishing and people were happy. There was lots of struggle but there are happy and now people are extremely angry. There's hate in the air and all sighs. I want to I want to see that I want to understand sometimes it just pulls you and you have to go. So it doesn't make any sense. Perhaps, but you just got to do it. What's the timeline of when I'm gone? How long? No one way. I don't.
Really plan. Wow, yeah, so I'm hoping back in a month. Also, not just to clarify, I'm not somebody who seeks risk and like you're somebody who seems to be terrified of bears and sharks. So you don't like so why go swim out? Why go surfing? Why goes well and the oh yeah. So I'm somebody that's the same probably with sharks to. I'm not taking unnecessary.
Ask but certain things that just mean a lot to you take the risk and so a little bit of risk willing to take to to discover something about myself honestly. It's probably what it what it all boils down to try to understand myself because so much of my Me is from that place. Well this is the beautiful thing about America is it's like stitches together. All these different cultures. Everybody came from somewhere else. Yeah and you try to understand in order
For me to be a good American. I need to understand who I was, where I came from and that's nothing reveals the spirit of a people better than War.
It's like, there's something about this conflict, that's really Cuts. All the bullshit. This is who we are. This is who we are as a people. So I want to I want to see it. I want understand and I like I said, what a comeback, drink some whiskey with
you. All right. Well I hope that happens and really do and I hope you're safe over there and I hope you come back with whatever Insight your
You're trying to achieve thank you for doing this conversation. My pleasure. Thank you
for everything you've done for me for the support for the love and everybody around you. Thank you for everything you're doing for everybody around you for forgiving, forgiving, forgiving back, but for just giving and being kind to everybody. I love you brother. I love you too. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Joe Rogan to support this podcast, please. Check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you with one of Joe's. And one of my favorite quotes from
Miyamoto Musashi. Once you know, the way broadly you will see it in everything. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.
