Even if you believe that Free Will is possible, theoretically in some situations, you should at least acknowledge that 99% of decisions. Don't reflect your flea will.
Thank you everyone for coming, back to on purpose. The number one Health podcast, in the whole world, thank you for making us number one podcast, and what it means so much to me, I'm so grateful for your love or your engagement. And most importantly, for choosing education, for choosing Enlightenment for choosing empowerment over. Everything else in the world, you're taking out your time right now. Whether you're walking your dog, you're at the gym. You're commuting to and from work. Thank you for taking this time to invest in yourself.
Now, today's guest is someone that I've been looking forward to for such a long time. So I'm so happy. I'm so excited that he's finally here. His name is URL Harare. You've probably seen it in every bookstore in the world. If you travel at all, or if you ever walk into a shop, you will have seen it. He's amazing, International best-selling books, sapiens, homo dais, and 21 lessons for the 21st century. He's also a two-time winner of the Polanski.
Prize which he won in 2009 and 2012 for his originality and creativity. And today we get to dive into his incredible mind and find all of these insights that he shared, you've out. Thank you so much for being here
today. Now it's great to be here. I'm
grateful that she allowed me the opportunity. No, I'm so excited. I genuinely was. So looking forward to this discussion, it's not only about the success of your books. What you've been speaking about in your books have
Dipped into so many different parts of mainstream culture and I love that. How we think alike you has been able to do that in today's Incredible World. So congratulations for everything that you've done and I'm hoping this is the start of a new relationship for us as well. Yeah. But I'm gonna get straight into it, okay. And I want to start off talking a bit about happiness because happiness is a big theme for my audience. It's something that my audience cares a lot about and I picked out something that I wanted to read that. You say in your book and you say, one of
The chapters in your 21 lessons for 21st century is happiness. Equals reality - expectations, right? Happiness equals reality - expectations and I want to dive into that because I want to ask you, how should we set expectations? We all have expectations. I have expectations doing this podcast. I have expectations when I'm thinking about. When you think about anyone investing in their job, they have expectations. When someone starts a relationship. They have expectations. What is your take on? How
Should
form set and create our expectations for happiness.
Oh, that's a big one to start with. Yeah, definitely, we need to relax control a bit not to say to yourself. This should be my expectations. The first step is actually to familiarize yourself with what you already expect and with the internal processes that have generated these expectations because usually we know almost most of us know, extremely little
About really what's going on inside us and about what forms? Our opinions, our desires, our expectations, there is a general tendency to identify with whatever pops up in your mind. And we are encouraged a lot by our culture and by the key ideologies of the age, whether it's liberal democracy, whether it's capitalism consumerism to just identify with our inner voice with are you know, all these slogans that
Just just do what feels good. Just connect to your heart and all these things, and people mistake it to mean, just identify, just looking side view. And the first thing that comes up identify with that. And my advice would be to really take the time to explore what is happening inside you. And where do all these things really come from so much of our expectations. And our desires, they don't reflect
Checked any inner truth self. They reflect a million manipulations done on us either by external forces or even by internal forces that we know. So little about. So before we reach the point when like we will write our self, the list of items. This is my agenda for life. This is my expectation from Life, take a take time long time
To first of all, familiarize yourself with what is actually happening inside. Yeah,
absolutely. I think you're spot on. I completely agree with you. I was sharing with you earlier. That I was training to become an investment, banker and working business growing up. And then I got to a point where I looked at that and I was like is that even me like why do I even want to do that? And I realized because in the part of society that I grew up in that was the most glorified role. So the people that I was surrounded by had made that seem as
The peak role or job that someone in our society could attain and so I actually wasn't my goal or dream. It was just the dreams and goals of people around me. Yeah. Is that what you're referring to about? How we? There are a million ways in which we are forming our dreams and
goals? Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah. And you know, that's a very old story throughout human history. You're always influenced by your friends, your family, the culture around and much of what people took to be their innermost desires and expectations. It's a
Actually came from outside today. It's even more extreme because we are increasingly acquiring technologies that enable external agents. Whether corporations or government or whatnot. To really hack the human mind and hack the human brain and manipulate Us in ways, which will never possible before, which makes it even more urgent than ever, to really get to know yourself.
You know, the advice nor yourself it's the oldest advice in the book. You go back. Thousands of years you meet Socrates or Buddha or Confucius. This is what it'll tell you get to know yourself the most important thing in life but there is something new today. What's new today is that for the first time in history you have real competition. If in the time of Buddha, you didn't make the effort to know yourself. Now I'm too busy so you missed enlightenment.
But you, you didn't face any competition out there because the Kings and the aristocracy in the merchants, in the time of Buddha, they couldn't get in your head, but today you have real competition. You may not have the time to get to know yourself because you're too busy. I'm too busy with their family with the the world visible, whatever. But there are people who have the time and the money to get to know you that's their business to really get
You know your their entire business model is based on that of their entire political model is based on that. So you now really have competition from these corporations and government and it's a very simple equation or a very simple idea. If they get to know you a little better than you know yourself game over they can manipulate and control you and you will not even realize it because the easiest people to manipulate other
People who believe in Free Will, the people who believe that their thoughts and desires and expectations? They reflect some authentic inner self and they don't question is, is this really the case?
Right, right, right. So how much, how much do you think a person does have free will?
I would say as a first approximation extremely little I mean I don't want to delve too deeply into the argument about the theoretical possibility of flu will. If you if you want we can go.
Our I want to be wherever you are but about as a first approximation, I would say that even if you believe that Free Will is possible, theoretically in some situations, you should at least acknowledge that 99% of decisions. Don't reflect your flea. Will they reflect something else? So I don't mind. Even considering the philosophical Point. Let's say that there is free will, but free will, is not something. You have free, will is
Is something going to struggle for, and that the the wrong idea about free will is that I have free. Will any thought that pops in my mind? Any desire that I have? This is my flea will. So it is sacred, and it represents something Sublime and this is nonsense. The that is, this is not the case. Maybe, if you work really, really hard, you would reach a point when at least some of the decisions in your life.
Life will reflect freedom, but it's not something you can just take for granted. Now, there are a lot of forces in the world, which encouraged us to have this simplistic idea that anything that pops into my mind is the reflection of my free, will it comes, most notably in the economic sphere from the whole consumerist and capitalist system, which it's built on the premise that the customer is always right. I mean, you know, we need
talk to the big corporations or to some business magnets and you ask them about the practices and both problematic things, they do. Their final line of defense is always the customer is always right. Yes, we are doing these things but the customers are buying it. And the customers are the number one Authority. This is their free will. If the customers wanted who are we or who is you to tell the customers that
Are wrong. Are you some big brother that knows better than them. So this is like the final line of defense. The customer is always right and this is based in a way on the idea of free will that the will of the customer represents this Sublime. I don't know force that manifest itself through your desires, like, I want this brand of conflicts. I amazing. That's human Free Will in action. And it's the, The Mystery of the
The universe manifest itself like in that moment in the supermarket that I stand. And I see these two Brands and how to choose, I choose this brand The Mystery of the universe. It isn't the mystery of the universe, we know today. A lot about what really happening in your brain, in your mind when you make this choice and it's increasingly becoming easier and easier to manipulate these choices. And again, the easiest people to manipulate, I will those who think that when they choose this
Rand in the supermarket. They are exercising. Their free
will absolutely. Absolutely anything interesting, you say that before I went to the question, I'm taking off at a tangent was how some of the biggest creators and inventors in the world, have not thought customer first. So when you think of people like Steve Jobs or even Henry Ford, I think was Henry Ford who said that? If I asked people what they wanted, they would have said Faster Horses, right? And so, he said, I didn't ask people what they wanted, and Steve Jobs, would often say that too, as well that you are creating because the audience
actually know what they want. But so some of the most powerful inventors have actually gone the opposite way, but in regards to that point that you're making there at the end and what does one do? And I agree with, you are saying that the person who becomes the most fooled, or deluded is the one who believes that they have the most choice and Free Will. Yes. So what do we do? What does an individual do in that scenario in this crazy information filled world where I was saying that the other day, that, you know, before we were targeted by Billboards, which was only if you drove and then,
Was the television which again you had to own one and you only spent a few hours a day and then it was the internet which you still need a computer and a dial-up connection and now it's all the time, right? So what does one do when they're being bombarded with? All of that information,
take time off, is that they like that the best advice I can give, you know, that the first take time off, it's extremely important during the day during the month during the year. I don't believe in
I mean, I don't think we can or should completely disconnect. I mean, we are now having this conversation where you hope that millions of people will see it. I've nothing against, you know, social media on the internet, they have done wonderful things for humankind. I don't know, I met my husband online in a dating site. I, that's awesome. So yes. So I have some of my best friends are applications, so I have nothing like inherently against them, but not all the time. The the first thing is just to
Take time off. Then you ask yourself. What would I do in this time off? So I will take different things, probably work, work best for different people. And I meditate, I do because sanitation other people, they do different kinds of meditations, some people find that out is much more. If it's a much more effective way for them to explore the inner reality for some people. It could be sports or going hiking in nature many things but I would say two things in in
Well about all these things, whatever works for you, do it quickly because you don't have much time. I mean there is this race going on. As we now talk, there are these corporations and governments that are busy trying to hack you and you need to stay a few steps ahead of them. So that's one thing, which was never the case before was less the case that's the before. And the other thing is,
It won't be so much fun and some people have this idea that a journey of inner exploration is a fun Journey. All I'll discover all these amazing things about myself and what a good person I am and I will have these wonderful experiences of beliefs and peacefulness and Oneness with the universe and sometimes it happens. I don't say, it never happens, but a lot of that.
Is is painful experiences. It's boring experiences like you have, like, to go through a desert of boredom. And one of them, I think biggest obstacles for people today, in, in the world of the 21st century. I don't know how it was, you know, two thousand years ago. But today, I would say that both at the inability to deal with boredom is one of our greatest weaknesses and in almost any meaningful Journey.
You have to go through boredom.
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Whether it's your traveling soon, our country and you have to spend some time in the airport or whether it's your having conversation with somebody. I find for my experience that if you're in a conversation that doesn't allow space for boredom, it will never reach anywhere. Interesting like if you meet a now travel around the world and I made these very powerful and famous and influential people and the problem with power,
All in famous and influential people, they don't have time. So if you get an hour with this person, then every minute should count. And boredom is the scariest thing. Because if the conversation becomes boring, it's over, I don't have time for this nonsense. I have to run this company, I have to run this country. I boredom, you go bother somebody else with we that search and I loved. And then what you find is that your fault all the time to all the time. Think what's the most interesting?
Young and important thing I can say and then you reach, you usually reach out for the things. You've already said a million times before. And, you know, they're effective and both of you find yourself, just exchanging, these slogans, and you never reach anywhere new and to reach some place new in a conversation, like, you need to go somewhere and nobody really knows what they're talking about and you wandering around and you realize, oh, it's not going anywhere and you come back and you wait,
Stood 20 minutes on something which was in the end. It was nothing and you can't do it when you meet the president or whatever. But the most interesting conversations I had in life, it was like this long conversation when much of it was quite boring. Yeah. So and it's the same when you go to explore yourself, like, I don't know, and not necessarily meditation. Even like you want to you go to use sport so okay you sell go on a hike.
And you start going. And after 3 hours, you feel thirsty, and it's hot, and it's inconvenient. And there is nothing to see in yourself. Forget that I'll go back and watch some movies and you'll never reach the interesting parts of the journey. Either the geographical Journey, or the kind of inner journey of exploration. If you don't allow yourself, if you don't have the discipline to go through these boring and sometimes
Painful and sometimes scary bits.
I love that. I'm so glad you brought that up. I think it's such a brilliant point. I think you're so right because as soon as you put the pressure of performance on whether that's the pressure of performance through time, like when we know we have a time limit, like you were saying when you're meeting influential people and you've got like 30 minutes to say something profound. Yes. Or you've got like 40 minutes to prove that you have more knowledge, or wisdom, or whatever it is. And so sometimes times are precious
Sometimes the pressure is not time, but the pressure is the people at the table. It's like, you know, that everyone's powerful at the table. And so the pressure is on my God. I know he's smart and she's smart. So what do I have to say? And I think you're spot on that. In those times our lateral brain completely switches off The Logical brain switches on. And we just say stuff, we already know and and you don't have moments of Brilliance and you don't have a moment that that Sparks unique thought you don't get into Flow State. For example, you can't you can't generate anything new
I think that's so true and I have to say in my training as a monk, which I loved and was an incredible part of my life. A lot of it was just discipline and doing the same thing over and over and over again in the beginning and what you said walking across that desert of boredom to then find a breakthrough. Yeah and it's almost just like that painful 99% to experience that 1% of bliss.
Yeah, I like it in the movie, it always gets condensed into this faster.
Like one minute or two minutes, like, I don't know. You have Yoda training, Luke Skywalker. So in the movie, Just got condensed into these two minutes. You get the point. Let's move on nothing and it was probably very, I don't know. It's fiction, of course, was probably a lot of it was just, you know, this tedious thing that you have to go through
it. Absolutely. Are you bored right now on right now? No, no. All right, well, we gotta get bored for a big guys. We got to get bored for a bit, so that you, well, you know, get some
Face. No I think that's a great point. I think becoming okay with boredom is such a useful skill and I think you're spot on that in the journey of self exploration or any Journey
know that I just came down from Silicon Valley and what we what we just said is the greatest heresy possible in California in 2019 in LA in 2019 in San Francisco in. 2019 to say let's just give some space to boredom, there is nothing more radical and and sub.
Zur subversive. Then I just, I just saw that Reed Hastings. Some time ago said that Netflix biggest enemy. Like he was asked, who is the biggest competitor of Netflix and the answer was sleep. Mmm. So true. It's not Hulu, it's not any of the other it sleep. That's our biggest competitor. So you know boredom If people could get along with boredom you know entire
Industries will cry. Which is collapse. Yeah. No it's so true and and
Instant gratification industry. The instant excitement industry is thriving off that. We know that that's obvious. There's a
start. Let's start here that the boring movement.
Yeah, let's start the boring roof and here, I love it. This is the boring podcast. We're going to call it that I love it. No and it's true. I read a study that 80% of us pull out our phone in a crowd just to not feel lonely, right? Like not even to do anything. Just when we're walking through a crowd, we pull out our phone just so that we feel like we're
doing something and that pressure of always wanting to do something. Just so I know I love that. I think that's such great advice find time this weekend to be bored, right? Be okay with boredom. Do you haven't have you? And I and this I don't expect you to have an answer. I'm just exploring it because I love the point. You brought up, do you have any ways of becoming more okay with boredom, or letting there be moments in a conversation? Like I'm sure when you went out on your first date with your husband, when you met through online dating, I mean, was there any boredom there or were you like, having to say stuff was he did you allow
Case for boredom because it's pressure when you date someone,
right? I don't remember that. It was boring, but, yeah, that there is definitely a lot of pressure in those situations to
be charismatic to be, you know, to be attractive to
not, not to board the other person. It's the worst thing you can do. It was so boring, you know? That's it's difficult again. I mean it I don't want to give like a single recipe. No, no. I mean, yeah. I know how I do it. You know. What's my money?
Station practice. So you really familiarize. I mean boredom is unit, it's an abstract idea. What what does it actually mean? Yeah, what it actually means is our particular Sensations in the body. It's not an abstract. And when you actually observe I mean you see that they are extremely unpleasant like when you're bored we tend to think about boredom is something like nothing happens. But actually a lot of things are happening. There is a lot. It's not, you know, it's not like
Pain. It's actually a more subtle kind of pain in throughout your body. Which many people find far more intolerable than the heroic. Severe pain. That you know, again, I'll take an example just for meditation because because I'm more familiar with it. But I know that a lot of people when they sit for meditation and there is a strong pain,
they it's quite easy for them to deal with that. They are actually even enjoying it in a way because they feel are doing something very important. Now I'm getting over this pain. No pain, no gain. Wonderful thing is good. And then when boredom comes it, immediately breaks them. They can't deal with it because it's, again, it's a very unpleasant feeling in the body. It's not abstract, but part of it, you don't feel heroic, you don't feel you're doing something important.
Feel that you're wasting your time that you're so little and insignificant and, and especially people who say come to whatever, practice it is, again, it could even be out like you, you're learning to paint and you are now. I'm Picasso, I'm doing this great work of art and I'm having this, this autistic crisis, that's wonderful but if you're just bored, you don't know how to deal with it. It's for most people. I think it's actually diff more difficult to deal with this.
Subtle pain of Bodom then with the heroic pain of some great
crisis. Absolutely. I think is what I know. That's a yeah, for me. But for me when I'm bored, I find a I use it as a space to breathe properly. That's, that's kind of what I do. And I'm just in a gap or I'm in a moment room like a billboard right now, you know, and it's so easy to do the habit of just picking out my phone, and I know that. And I've noticed myself do that over and over again that whenever I'm bored, or there's a gap.
Take on my phone without any purpose, without any intention without any goal. And so, for me, I've stopped doing that. And using that as a moment to
breathe, there is actually something. When you pick up the phone, what actually happens in your body is that there is a little excitement, maybe I get some some email, maybe. I got some liked my Facebook, whatever. And so, the moment you pick up the phone, there is a rush, a small Rush of excitement in the body and actually this is what makes it so addictive.
People are addicted. Not actually to the phone, people are addicted to the small rushes of excitement that they think they can get dozens of times a day. Every time they pick up the phone to see what's there. Yeah. And
those pleasure centers, keep decreasing, yes, we have to do it again and again, and again and again we have to accelerate to keep up because that pleasure centers depleting every time and I think that's what we don't realize. Is that the more you do it? The harder it becomes to experience that feeling again. Yeah. Because you've just dropped it lower and lower and lower amazing. Okay.
We started the Border movement today on this day. I think it's what 25th, April 26th, April, 26th, April 2019, you vile, and Jay, the boredom movement, the bottom podcast. Okay. The second thing, I really wanted to dive into a pot from happiness with you which which leads nicely to this. Because I think this boredom experience also slightly links to what I wanted to go to which is education. You speak a lot about education, I've made a ton of videos about education and the education system and
My challenges to it just yesterday, I was talking to people about how like, when we were educated, we were taught to believe, we had to be good at everything. We were taught that you had to get an average grade at this and then average greater that and an average graded that and yet to be equally good at history and science and math and English. And a lot of the videos that I've made on these topics have have been shared a lot. So one of the videos I made on this topic has 367 million views on one video has been shared, like eight million times, or something crazy like that. And it's because we feel
Is pressure through our education. Now, I believe that the ideal education system should have a head, a heart, and a hand ahead for critical thinking a heart to understand to experience. And then a hand to give to serve to make a difference. And you talked in your chapter about the four C's of critical thinking, communication collaboration and
creativity and that's not my idea and it's like the the experts in the field are increasingly talking about these four
C's? Absolutely.
So tell me about your thoughts on the education system and and why you got fascinated with that and how you think that's impacted some of our mistakes. We make. Now
my interests with the educational system comes, I mean I am in the education system, I I'm a professor at the University so so it's part of my life. But now it's mostly from thinking about the coming revolutions, especially in the job market that again when unique situation in human history, when for the first time,
We have no idea how the job market would look like in 20 or 30 years that was never before the case in history. I mean, there are always things you couldn't predict about the world 30 years from now, you know, political revolutions Wars plagues economic crisis. Nobody could ever predict that. But at least about the basic skills, that humans will need in 30 years in order to get a good job and in order to support them,
Selves and get along in life. We always had a quite a good understanding of that. So if you lived a thousand years ago in the Middle Ages, in some small village and so people didn't know who would be the king in 30 years. People didn't know, the might be a play going earthquake, who knows. But they knew what they needed to teach their kids. If they were to have a reasonable life in 30s, you need to know how to plant rice and how to take the goats herding.
And how to make cheese and how to make bread and how to build the house and all these. And today we just have no idea. What people will what skills will people will need in the job market in 2050. Anybody who tells you, I know how the job market would look like in 2050 and what skills will be needed. Is this little diluted eluding either you or also themselves.
The only thing we know is that it will be a completely different job market because of the amazing advances in Ai and machine learning and also in bioengineering. So more and more jobs will be replaced by machines and computers and robots. Some jobs will be transformed and new jobs will appear. Now, I don't think we are facing a situation. No more jobs in the world. There will be new jobs. The big question is going, I mean, actually took big
Sections, one, big question is about training and retraining the will be new jobs, will people have the skills necessary for these kinds of jobs previously, when machines replaced humans, for instance, in agriculture, so machines, replaced humans in low skilled jobs in farms, but a lot of new low-skilled jobs were created in factories, like the tractor replaced you on the farm. So you move to Detroit
It to work in forwards Corporation to build a tractor and the new job was usually a relatively low skilled job. So, within a couple of weeks, perhaps two or three months, you could transform a farm worker into a worker in a tractor Factory. But today when you look to the Future so people say yes there will not be any more jobs for truck drivers because you have self-driving trucks and there will not be a lot of jobs for people producing sure.
In textile factories and things like that. But there will be new jobs in the creative Industries, whether in art, or whether in science or in interacting with people. But the problem is these new kind of jobs will require High skills.
So it won't be so easy to take an unemployed textile worker at age, 40 and transform her into a soft software engineer that creates virtual reality Games. And what makes it even worse is the huge gap between different countries. I think that in a country like the US, which is bound to reap much of the benefits of the coming, AI Revolution because California
Along
with China is one of the of the centers of this revolution. The will be immense New Wealth, created in least in some parts of the United States. So I don't worry for the Americans. But when I look at other parts of the world countries, which depend almost entirely on cheap manual labor, it will say just South of the Border you go to Mexico. You go to El Salvador, to Honduras to South America. What will happen there?
When we are not educating the young people today in Honduras or in Colombia to be software Engineers. So even if there are a lot of new jobs in California for software Engineers, this is not going to help the kids
who are growing up today in Honduras order or
Columbia. So what will they do? And we have no answer and that's actually my biggest worry about the education system now is from a Global Perspective.
Even
the huge gap that is opening between different countries in the face of the coming AI Revolution,
if you are in charge of the education system, South of the Border. What were the things you'd be thinking about? At least
I need money, okay?
But what if you had the money, the money, what would you be thinking about? Money is not never an issue,
really do it, north of the Border even north of the Border. It's an issue, but South of the Border. It's you know you go to Brazil and we are just going to Brazil
in in a few months and you have people coming to Brazil. With all these ideas about we should teach kids this and we should teach the kids that and the local people come and say we don't even have schools. I mean where do you want us to put
the in that sense money right at that,
you know I mean in some places you have the schools run in a shift system like because you just don't have the facilities. So some kids learn from 8 o'clock in the morning to 2:00 in the afternoon, they go home another shifts coming.
Another shifts come at night because they just don't end, you know, this is some things you can't just throw money at it, you need more than that but the basic infrastructure you basically. The first thing you need is money. Okay? And
but they're my yeah. So looking at it from that perspective, my hope is that. There are people who believe in those communities and want
invest in them.
Yeah, I hope so. And again, the the main thing is that we need a global thinking on this on this because in the last few decades, what we have seen is a reduction in global inequality, global inequality was extremely high in the early 20th century when you hit a few industrial Powers colonizing the rest of the world. So, say Britain, dominating India and much of Africa and
Much of the Middle East and the disparity was enormous. And then, in the last few decades, the Gap wasn't completely closed. But India and Britain are now, far far closer than they were 50 years ago or a hundred years ago. So we have seen a reduction in global inequality but now we are on the verge of a new burst of growing inequality just like the industrial revolution of the 19th century. This is what created initially the gap.
Between Britain and India. So now you have the AI Revolution, concentrated in just a few countries, the USA and China leading the race. You have a few other countries, which joined the race, most countries are far behind, and The Economic Consequences will be enormous. So, the danger is that what we have seen? A century ago will come back and then it's not just a question as a of people in Brazil, rich people in Brazil caring about poor people.
In Brazil and investing in their education and health care and so forth. The won't be enough resources in Brazil. Oh, maybe not Brazil, but but but some other countries so we need Global thinking on that. Otherwise it will be a re-run of the Industrial Revolution with this enormous gaps between a few countries that dominate the world and most of humanity, Which is far, far behind.
Absolutely, no, I agree. And I guess my thinking from where I'm always coming from these days,
Just to meet the global thinking always needs to be towards how we create more meaningful careers, how we create more meaningful jobs, how we create opportunities for people to be better engaged? Yeah. Because that's what's going to create a happier, more peaceful, more cohesive world, it's almost like otherwise there's a rerun in culture of you, saw people in two jobs, they don't want to do that aren't good for their health mentally or physically that then leads to another repercussion of that person being dissatisfied and then that reruns. Yeah.
I do think that where you do, you think having met some of the most influential people on the planet? Do you feel that that's the dial, that's the compass that we're trying to get to? Or do you think that's just for the most influential
people? Yeah, they're the most of them are too busy with the immediate
crisis, right? I'm
part of the problem. And these are little goes back what we discussed earlier about boardroom and things like that, that overexcited and I mean, I can understand them. I mean, I'm lucky I don't have a country to run, I don't have
Of a multi-billion corporation to run yet, so I can allow myself the time to, you know, just read a book or just go for a walk or go from a little, take a rich Meditation, Retreat. They can't. And part of the issue, they can't or they want, they really can't. I mean, they have so much on their plate, they have all these immediate crisis and like, we had just the case in France with the protests against Emmanuel macron. And one of the things that the protesters protesters told
Him. And I'm not judging, who is right? Who is wrong? I don't understand French politics well, enough. I was just struck by what they said that because he did. They the initial cause was that he wanted to impose a new tax on fuel in order to partly in order to combat climate change and this caused a huge backlash and some of the protesters told the president you are thinking about what will happen.
Years from now, we are thinking about the end of the month. We don't have money for the end of the month, we don't care about 20 years from now, and that's a real issue. Its inner needs is easy, and I talked a lot about the need to, we need to do something about climate change, but then a simplistic answer. Okay? Let's just put money on Tax on fuel. And if this tax hurts disproportionally poor people, then this is not a good solution. So now we
This crisis on his hands and he can't just. Okay. Okay, I'll just go on this long two months Retreat and I'll do meditation, I do, I'll hike in the Alps and I'll inform myself about climate change and he doesn't have the time. He has that, he has brexit, he has the UA EU elections. He has the crisis in Libya, they has the the relations with China and by the time you reach this
Influential place. You really don't have the luxury.
To think slow and Broad. And that's a huge problem for the system. And I to, I don't have like this easy solutions, part of the idea of, you know, addressing the general public like what you are doing here and not just going and talking with a few presidents. And CEOs is to realize that yes, there are very influential people but they are also extremely limited by
Their position of power and by the enormous pressures on them from different directions. So, even for the influential people, it would be easier to do something on climate change. If you have tens of millions of people saying that this is the number one priority and that they are willing to make some painful sacrifices for that and it's the same with the kind of global educational crisis. That
You know, I hope that more and more people around the world. Understand that you know, the consequences of these crime of this crisis, we will see them only in 20 years when the people today in Indonesia, in Nigeria, in Brazil who are now in kindergarten when they will be 30 and 40. This is when the full force of the crisis will hit, but if we wait until they are 40.
To do something about it. It's too late. We need to think what we are teaching youngsters today in order to to solve the the coming
crisis of 2015. Absolutely.
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Yeah. And I think those I think that's a very good analysis of this situation because I appreciate that. There is no quick solution. There is no easy recipe. And when I'm listening to you talk, there's parts of me that are thinking. It's the way we've constructed these rolls of influence that these people don't have the time and space and the boredom to be able to actually do their jobs properly. Like we've not created these roles efficiently and effectively and at the same time, the responsibility on
And everyone of us listening and watching right now to actually become changemakers. Ourself to be someone who takes responsibility for Action to be a part of the solution to, to actually step up and say, no, this is a priority and we need to go in that direction. I think that is, even though it's not a quick recipe. I think it's a good wake-up call. I think it's good wake-up call that can make us all aware that we can't just wait for this to be solved from the top. Yeah, because that's not really gonna happen
especially assuming that a lot of our viewers.
Is and listeners are in the United States. Then America is still the most powerful country in the world. Economically militarily politically, so Americans can do more than the citizens of any other country and there is still you know this expectation that America will be the leader of the world in recent years. It's been going in the opposite direction that it's really I think that's very unfortunate abdicating willing
Abdicating, its role as leader of the world for decades, you know, both from the right and left Republicans Democrats. What was common to all the spectrum of of American political system? Was that they intentionally saw themselves as the leaders of at least the Free World. And then in the last few years, America comes and says, no, we don't want this job anymore for us America first, we need to
First of all, think about ourselves and our own interests and nobody wants to follow a leader, whose motor or is me first. So the rest of the world I mean, is now, you know, in some countries are trying to step up and fill the vacuum so in climate change. Now, China is becoming kind of tries to depict itself, is the leader of the world in trying to combat climate change. But then in other areas, it's definitely not
Not like that. So we in this moment of real crisis in human history, we find the world without a leader, and this again, this is something that people in the u.s. can do more about than in any other place because still the u.s. is kind of the almost natural leader for Humanity because it is still the most powerful country in the world. Other countries of course, have to
Up in and it would be good to have a world, which is yes, less unipolar, when we can't just trust a single country to do everything all the time
definitely.
But there is still a huge disparity in powers between the different parts of the world that that's still the
case. Yeah definitely a but I do like that point you made there even though it's a subtle point is that ultimately
If we live in that belief that this country is the most powerful and they're going to solve everything. Then we also kind of just debilitate ourselves and we just got oh well if they're not going in the right direction or wait for them to go in the right direction and actually what we all need to do in my opinion is pull our socks up and get stuck in because there's no I'm not a big fan of the victim mentality or the mentality of waiting for someone else to solve a crisis. It's like if you're you know, if your house is on fire, you don't wait for your
Your dad to fix it. You you get involved to write and so if we believe that there's a crisis or even if we don't believe there's a crisis, but we believe things are not going in the right direction. I would want everyone from every country whether it's India, whether it's Australia, whether it's across Europe to step in.
Yeah, actually in that sense, actually, the one good thing that comes out of could come out of the Courant, Retreat of the United States from the position as leader of the world is is that it it kind of
Of forces other countries and other people to step in. Yes. And I
hope this will happen. Yeah. Could we have the same? Hope we have the same up? I love this. Okay, great. So we've kind of gone from happiness and inside to Global macro view points. I want to go back in words again and this is actually from a couple of days ago. I read somewhere that when Tim Cook was speaking at the time, 100 summer an event that happened this week he was speaking about how if you're spending more time looking at it.
Green then, in someone else's eyes. They have a problem. You have a problem, and we will get you anything wrong. And I know you just a good line. Yeah, it's very good line. And and you also said that, you know, you said that, it's so much easier now, to connect with your cousin in Switzerland, then it is with your husband because he's always looking at his phone and breakfast. You did write that down, it is out there. You did say. So walk me through that addiction, we spoke a bit about the excitement we get from the phone, the addiction we have from the phone.
But how have you seen people
overcome that? And part of it is also that when you connect when you connect with somebody through a phone or through a screen again, it's easier to deal with the problematic stuff because you can just shut the phone once it becomes problematic. And with a real person you can't do that. So it'll like, real relationships forces you're going. It's like the Borden thing, they focus.
See you to deal with the difficult issues and part of the attraction of all these online communities and online relationships. And virtual relationships is that once a difficulty arises, you can just immediately disappear. Like, you can unfriend your Facebook friends in a way that you can't our neighbor, your real neighbors. If you live in a house and then
it's just that this annoying family just moved in and the kids are making a lot of noise in the middle of the night. And you can't just say, okay, I'll press a button and they'll disappear from my life. Can you imagine that eject delete? Yeah, I'm neighbor. It doesn't look like it's so you have so you need to develop these social skills. Okay, what do I do? Okay, I'll go there and I knock on the door with that was a cake or something. And I'll try to have a nice conversation. And then I somehow make them understand that I need to sleep and they should keep their
More quiet something? Yeah, but it's it forces you to develop these social skills and that's extremely important. And we are losing these skills. I mean, the more time again you spend watching screens than watching eyes is you are in this sense kind of downgrading some of our human abilities. I've just seen this wonderful presentation by Tristan Harris. Who is this? Yes. Yes. Actual or suffer from from Silicon Valley and he just had this wonderful
presentation
About
how technology is basically downgrading humans, downgrading human skills. Like what to do when you have a problem with your neighbors, mmm,
right. So, so actually instead of Technology upgrading us. It's downgrading our human
skills. Yeah, it it we upgrade our phones all the time but inadvertently it down. Grades are a lot of our social and personal skills. Yeah.
And which ones that you think are the biggest ones that were losing? So one of them is
You know, deleting our neighbors and, and yeah, I completely agree with you. What are the other ones that were losing out on that? We can be aware of anyone who's listening and watching right now? How can they become more aware of the types of skills? We're losing? Because sometimes, I don't think it's as obvious to us because everyone's on their phone, our careers are now digital. Yeah, we just talked about Ai and the rise of technology in every area of Our Lives, whether it's work Health, like your dentist. Now wants to you to use a toothbrush, that can notify them when something goes wrong in your tooth, right?
Yeah, yeah. So it's like all parts of our lives are becoming automated and systemic. So what how can we become more aware of the skills, we are losing or which ones are those top skills that were
losing? Well, many of the top skills are social of dealing with other people. So another example, which is now actually gets a lot of attention. There is a lot of talk about. This is all the issue of filter, bubbles, okay, that people kind of lock them. Our even inadvertently, the algorithms, the Facebook algorithm is a tweeter algorithms that YouTube's
Them that gets to know us increasingly show us videos or articles or opinions which are aligned with our own opinions. And we think that the entire world things like me, like, I don't know, I'm a Democrat and I don't know any Republicans and I never see any Republican videos and then when the Trump wins the election, I can't understand. How could it be? There is down or Republicans. So, who voted for him? It's all the people not in your filter. Bubble voted for him and
And what we are losing, is the ability to engage with opinions with people who think differently for from us. Now, one crude way of trying to fix that, that at least some
corporations like Facebook, tried to do
is every now. And then show you an article from the different different side of the political Spectrum, but this didn't work because it only made people even more angry because it
In a situation when you can really engage with the people behind it like you have this your view on the world and you read something from another perspective and you become very angry were these stupid people think like that and it actually made things even worse. Now again a century ago if you lived in some small town then the situation was such that you all the time encountered people who think differently from you because the
Tea was made of, you know, of those different and of different viewpoints and you had to develop these skills of how to engage with and how to cooperate. And part of what technology is doing is that it downgrades these skills are any, it makes life easier. Yeah. And it's all these things which are difficult and uncomfortable to do like having a real conversation with somebody who thinks
Differently. And it's you know, it's just so much easier just to talk with the people who think like
me. Totally absolutely. Yeah, and it's that principle of like non-judgment being able to view, observe and entertain a thought without judging it. Yeah. And that becomes extremely hard right now. There was a great study by MIT where they showed to people's networks, and he was looking at their online Network and saying which one is more creative and impactful and Innovative and it was employed.
It was Employee it be and their Twitter networks. And they found that when you know, the same people who know the same people who know you back, you end up being less, creative, less Innovative, and come up with less interesting ideas because you don't have that challenging of thoughts. And so I love that one of your solutions to that or one of your recommendations. At least that I gained from the book was this beautiful collared quality of humility of being the openness that we have towards other people's views and not this kind of
Deep religious belief about the truth of our views and how we're always right, I love that. Let's let's dive into humility. I first of all, I'm a I'm fascinated, you brought humility because humility is probably my favorite quality in the world. I find it the most endearing thing in the world. When I meet someone who has it, especially someone who's very accomplished and my favorite story about humility. And I'm sure, you know this, but I'm sharing it for anyone who's listening and watching right now is from Benjamin Franklin, and he is 13 precepts. So Benjamin Franklin had
12 precepts, 12 things that he wanted to live during his life that he wanted to Aspire for. And once one of his friends said that you getting a bit egotistical about these things, you're pretty good at it. So we added the 13th one, and then when he was dying supposedly, The Story Goes that he was asked which one he didn't achieve and he said it was the 13th one and they said which one is the 13th one he said humility. He said that was the one that he didn't achieve in his lifetime. So humility
has another thing that what I think about monks in the Buddhist tradition or Hindu
Traditionally whatever the monk cuts from his other vices he adds to, to his, to his ego. Yeah. You surprised. Yeah overcome
this. I love working that. Exactly, exactly. Yes. Soon as we figure we've
achieved something. It becomes a step on the other side
of ego. Absolutely, I completely agree. So, I love humility. I'm fascinated by. I would like what's your definition of humility and and how do we start? Increasing humility in our lives in a positive way? Well,
I mean in the book it's more.
In the, in the more political and historical context, and the idea is don't think you're the center of the world. And this is actually again, in the book, it's more about Collective, humility, the humility of groups of political parties, of nations of religions. One of the curious things to see as a historian is that everybody thinks they are the most important thing in the world. Even, you wouldn't believe these tiny tribes.
Or insignificant Nations, they somehow managed to kind of turn the whole history around, so they turn out to be the most important thing. Anyway, if you think that I don't know if the Chinese think they are the most important in the world. And okay, I can understand that to some extent. But then then you go say to Israel and you find this tiny Nation. Utterly, convinced that we are the most important thing in the world. The entire world revolves just around us, and it
Always like that. That we invented any everything. And I use the example of Israel as and Jews because it's, you know, it's it's not so nice to criticize other nations and other people. It's easier when you criticize your own. But this is not meant as a kind of anti-jewish or anti-israeli thing whatever your nationality religion is. Now after we you finish watching this, do this exercise on your group. Almost any invention you would mention. They would say I invented it first. There is even a story.
Three that Jews invented yoga. What do you believe that? The, the posters of your II? In Jerusalem? When I was a student, I went
to I was definitely easier. Just,
I went to study yoga with this teacher in Jerusalem, and on the first class, he explain to the student, you know, that a lot of people think that yoga comes from India. But no, no, actually, yoga was invented by Abraham and the postures of yoga.
Actually reflect the letters of the Hebrew, alphabet, the underneath the bed, the Gmail data and and people are. And, you know, I quit after this first class, this is not a person. I would be studying yoga from, but you have people are seriously believing that and when you look at the great span of human history, it should be obvious that nobody is at the center. Yes. Almost every nation or religion.
Tributed something. But most things, when if you had to live your life, based only on the inventions and Creations of people from your nation, you would have a very miserable life, you'll probably be dead. I mean, if you have to eat, only the things that were domesticated by your direct ancestors, like, I don't know Italians, you must now, stop eating tomatoes because tomatoes.
Mystical Mexico and not by Italians. And Indians forget about these Chili Peppers. Normal Chili Peppers for you Chili Peppers were also domesticated by Mexicans and Mexicans. Don't put yourself tool too high because you like your steaks and hamburgers. They there were no cows in America before Columbus and no hoses. They came from the old world and so forth and so on and so on and it's just not just food, it's everything. So really understanding
How interconnected the whole humanity is and that yes, your people contributed something, but it's a small thing, it's not the whole thing. And it's most important I think in the field of morality because again I mean in Israel there is this very strong belief, we invented morality before the Jews. There was no ethics in the world. We invented it and the entire world always us this huge debt of gratitude because
The morality in the world came from the Jews and this you know, this is absolute nonsense. I mean even monkeys have morality even animals. It goes Its millions of years ago it's in evolution some at least social rules of do and don't do and hunter-gatherers tens of thousands of years ago. Had ethics
long before they knew anything about the
Bible people in India in China in Australia had extremely it wonderful ethical systems in many ways much better than
Anything that came out of the judeo-christian, tradition long before they knew anything about about the Bible. So yes, just contributed some things but don't let it go to your head. You are not so
important. What a beautiful message to the end on that message. I love that message. I think it's incredible. If we all looked at our wardrobes, our kitchens, our refrigerators our homes, our cars, we noticed that it was inspired by the globe. It was never
One or the other. It was never just one place. One country or one region. I think it's such a beautiful message. I have so many more questions I want to ask you how we're going to do this again on nationalism competition and a billion other things, but we end every interview with what we call. The final five, quick fire rapid fire questions. Also, these are 1 2, 3, Word answers once. And three words. Yeah. Or one sentence maximum constant. So this is number one. What is the biggest mistake we make is humans?
One word, three words, one sentence, Max underestimate our stupidity. Nice I love it. Okay, question number two, what is the best advice you've ever received?
Observe your breath. Nice
number three. What is the worst advice you've ever received? Just follow your heart. Nice. Okay. Number four. What's the one thing? You want to learn this year or you're trying to learn this year?
Hmm.
How the other side is
sink is thinking, nice. I like that. Awesome. And number five, if you could get everyone in the world to practice one thing for 30 days, what would it be?
I want a meditation because it's not going to work. Well, you Millet E,
I love it. You are you are incredible. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really enjoyed it II. Didn't I'm hoping
I could fail on the board. I'm hoping I got border:1px
solid.
And because otherwise this won't live up to your standards, but we started the Border movement today. I hope we're going to keep in touch. I'll be going to be friends, and I'm just so grateful that you took the time to do this. Thank you so much, all the best for all the incredible work you're doing. I'm excited to see how your incredible mind and thoughts seep its way into our entertainment world as well and continue to help us make education more accessible and relevant. So thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah thank you so much great. Thank you everyone for watching. Make sure you subscribe to the show if you haven't already.
D. Share this on Instagram as well. Remember, I'm always looking for your insights, the quotes that you took away, feel free to share them on Instagram as well. Thank you so much for being here and being an incredible audience. See you guys soon. Thank you so much for listening through to the end of that episode. I hope you're going to share this all across social media. Let people know that you're subscribed to on purpose. Let me know.
State tell me what a difference. It's making in your life. I would love to see your thoughts. I can't wait for this incredibly conscious Community. We're creating of purposeful people. You're now a part of the tribe part of the squad. Thank you for being here. I can't wait to share the next episode with you.
