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Rogan Experience trained by day. Joe Rogan podcast by night all day.
Mr. Huberman. How are you sir? Good to see you. Good to see you. So what we just saying about dog breeds that, like, we're talking about Carl, like, the little bull dog breeds. Have more massive than wolf? Yeah, so Mastiff is a different thing. Well, so don't they all come from Wolves. Yeah, they all originated from wolves but then dog selection has been twofold. Mainly for phenotype like morphology the shape we call it and then temperament, right? So there's this
Art have might be a little hard to find online about the dosing of wolf versus Mastiff, genetics essentially, and there's a bunch of other things woven into dog, genetics. First of all, cool, Point dogs are among. I don't know if they are the most, maybe whales in the most but they are among the greatest variation in body size within a given species you think of Chihuahua and great, right. And it looks like it's dosing of the genes controlling igf-1, which makes sense their growth hormone, but kind of way,
Wild, right? Like you, we got some big humans and some smaller humans, but not dog, not like dogs. And then
why was? And then what are those enormous Shepherd dogs? Those? What are those ones? Those insane dogs. They used to fight off wolves. What the fuck are those things called those gigantic hairy things. You know? I'm talking about. We've talked about them before they're terrifying. Looking dogs. Yeah. I mean just that. What's it called my good. Oh yeah. Those things. What the fuck is that thing?
NG what is that called again?
But we've seen it before.
That doesn't say the name of the dog. Well, find the name of those dogs because there's Bryan Callen, those all this shit.
Right? So I have a colleague at Stanford Sue McConnell. Who
chose Ojos? Oh dogs. No, that's not it. There's a name for them though.
Tibetan Mastiff, Tibetan Mastiff? Yeah, they're really furry and they're like 250 pounds. Look at that puppy at 7 weeks old. That's so great. Or how
many they have in the litter?
How could they have very many? Yeah, it's gonna be just a video, poor poor mama.
So I this colleague at Stanford Sue McConnell, she's won Best in Show at some of the big events for puh-leeze. She breeds horses and she's into that hole. It's a Puli, the pool, he's the one.
That look like Rastafarian dogs. You know, their eyes are covered. They're amazing. They're amazing. And she had this chart on her door. I was going to meet with her about something. She handles, a lot of undergraduate education at Stanford and I see this chart and the chart essentially shows the dosing of kind of the original wolf line genes versus more Mastiff. Heavy genetic background and there are a lot of breeds on this chart, but it essentially shows up in the following way, the dogs that are more site.
And sent, right? And with longer snouts Like a Shepherd Like a Shepherd, have more heavily dosing of the wolf Gene still in them then you get to the shorter. Snout kind of snub nose like the French Bulldog, the English Bulldog, and some Mastiff breeds pugs, right? And that the amount of wolf in them is like Neil to none and then what
about wait a minute, but they all start off
as well as. So they have some genes that relate to the wolf origin origin lineage right. But over time they've been bred for instance that
English
Bulldog or what, but all dogs originally come from
wolves. Also, that's my understanding is even Mastiffs, that's right? That's my understanding, but then, as they were crossbred with different dogs, right? So for instance, like the English Bulldog that line came from the crossing of essentially pug, like short snout, right? But with Mastiff with Mastiffs or with dogs with heavy Mastiff, genetic dosing, why? Well the idea was the short. Snout gives them a good lever for holding onto things, right?
And the master of genes lead to and we know this, for sure, both of the droopiness of the face. It also relates to less presence of pain receptors in the front of the body, guess if you've ever had a bulldog but you know, their feet can be really sensitive, but their face. You can hold onto those jowls my Bulldog. Costello would go picking up stuff at the beach and you occasionally get a fish hook in his mouth and it looks super painful and he's like the who, you know? So not not very many pain sensors in the face. They have they have a disruption in or a mutation in the gene that controls the elasticity of skin. That's why they
The droopiness and they are brachycephalic short snout, that's why they're not very good breathers. And then essentially have sleep apnea. That's why, right? Rob's okay. Snore. Like a motherfucker they do. So they snort a lot. I can attest like Carl does. It's crazy. And and so what were dogs being selected for? Well, unless you're showing dogs dogs were selected for the kind of work. They were capable of doing like sheep. Dogs are great. Herders. This kind of thing. But when people essentially designed bread up and cross bred to get the English,
Logger the old English bulldog which doesn't have as much of an under, right? So I had an Old English Bulldog, so whereas the English Bulldog is elbows out. So inward rotation, the thing we're all supposed to not do and underwrite the old English. Bulldog looks like this,
it looks more like a pit bull looks
more, like a pit bull and they were originally used for bull baiting for grabbing onto the nose of the bull, getting the bull super aggressive and then being able to let go and get called off and coming back to their to their protector. And then basically, then it was for it was to Rio.
Oh, up the bowl right for bullfighting. So you can still find some of the stuff online. You can find some old descriptions in some cases, even some old videos, but of course, now, bull baiting with dogs is not allowed right, dog? Fighting everybody looks down on but then if you start asking about the toy breeds, what were the toy breeds quote-unquote designed for bread for it? They were basically designed to sit next to you. Some of them will seek out, you know like the terrier breeds will find Vermin, right? They'll go find rats. They're really good ratters. Yeah.
Jack Russells are great, Jack Russells,
Great Riders, the West Highland Terrier is the Westies, the Cairn Terriers they're always, they're really great hunters for little things. Right. And the amazing thing is that when you start looking at the different breeds, it was basically humans selecting on the basis of mostly behavior and phenotype shape and thinking, oh, I want a smaller dog. They'll just sit in your mirror. I want a small dog that will that will like kill rats and sit near me. No, I want a big dog that's going to guard, so you start breeding for pain. Tolerance. Start breeding for.
Loyalty and aggression. And a guy that I think was on your podcast a long time ago. Sam Sheridan. Yeah, yeah. In a Fighter's heart, there's a great chapter where he talks about. I think it's dog fighting in the Philippines and he talks about how brutal that sport is which indeed it is. But he talks about the love between the owner and the dog can predict. And and of course, the dog and the owner, its reciprocal one presumes, that the strength of that relationship predicts. How hard the dog will fight for the
And he uses this as kind of a parallel construction for y. And you tell me if this is true or not. That many of the fatalities in boxing were the consequence of sure 15-round as opposed to 12 round fights. But also when the corner man or the coach was the parent and so, and so there it gets into this very complicated psychology. I actually think that's a really terrific book because I think it speaks to a lot of really interesting aspects of bonding between humans bonding in that case between animals and humans. Of course,
Eating like, I don't know if there are many things that people look down upon as much as they looked down upon dogfighting, but he speaks to the relationship between the dog and the owner. As a loving one, which was super surprising to me. Anyway, that's a bit of a tangent but I don't know, maybe it's possible to find that chart. I don't want to send you on a ridiculous Expedition, but if you just say so genes, that's a simple one. Okay, this one don't I'm thinking about is a vertical one that was in Science magazine, or
American, but it's wild again. I don't want to send you on a Expedition that has us paused but
Yeah, sorry about that.
No worries. But it's just we get an a rough understanding of it all.
Yeah. So what? So now when I see like okay like a collie, like I see a collie down there, I think long snouts are probably has a better nose than a than a mastiff breed are you can ask an owner, how good is their Vision, are they a sighthound or a scent hound? And of course, they're both. But some dogs. Like I'm really interested now in part because of you and campaigns and others about
Out dogs that hunt or go on hunts and like the Coonhound breeds are amazing. Yeah. I've always wanted a Redbone Coonhound
arrears waft up smell. That's why there's no long. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah, the reason why they have those long floppy ears is, as they're running, their ears are wafting up, smell and it gives him a better sense of the, the, the chase
amazing. I read this incredible description of wide dog scent. And sense of smell is so much better than ours. There's a guy named Nomi.
Noble, who's been on my podcast? He's over in Israel. Who claims that human olfaction is just as good as dog olfaction. But how do they, how do they outdo us? The frequency of sniffs and this is really cool. You know, there's a little notches on the side of the nose like our nostrils, look more or less symmetric and those little notches they create, they create little vortices for the dog so that the scent stick around they're actually getting longer exposure to a sense. So when they they're getting something like 10 or 20 x, the exposure to the sent in the
Olfactory bulb and are able to assess both directionality. They can do right nostril, left row nostril. They can sense odor plumes to steer in One Direction or another, but no one has done these crazy experiments when he was back at Berkeley where he had people hands, mitad eyes covered so they can't sense. Touch they can't see everything's covered and they can follow a scent of chocolate. Buried, 7 inches below the ground. What? Yes, people can see this this you can find if you say
Tracking sorry Jamie my goal wasn't to come here and send you on these
people have a nose like Ari, shaffir
boy, or a dream Brody, oh my, if you say kind of Berkeley chocolate tracking Sobel, or something like that, it should come up. So he would do these aerial views of these people, tracking these Sense on the ground and it turns out people are really good at this. They can track a scent. Yeah. And if
he's never show that humans contract sense,
Us. And the two nostrils are better than one.
Okay, so if you, but if you go images, I think you'll probably
through the grass.
Yeah, if you go images.
And then I'll lay off the
track sense.
So if you go to images damn it. And you say a Berkeley just say
There it is, right? So they compared the tracking of a scent, Hound of a bloodhound to human, tracking of a cent buried in the case of the set of the Bloodhound, it wasn't buried. So that person. What do they have a mask on? And they got a mask on, their hands are covered with thick gloves. They can only use the only thing exposed our, their nostrils and there, but that line, that yellow line is not a line with a bunch of chocolate on its buried below the surface. I always thought it was above and then when I talked to know me said, no, no, they buried the
Chocolate scent and people were able to track it like a like a hunting dog tractor. Has
a very it if it's grass.
I think they cut a trench and then they covered it
up.
Wow,
so he insists that this thing that you see in all the textbooks which is that humans have you know like 1/1000 or something of the number of olfactory receptors. That's that's total bullshit, really total bullshit. In fact our friend who by the way wanted me to say hello Rick Rubin turned to a good friend of mine who's the chair of neurosurgery of a major department achill. School department, not Stanford, I promise and said what percentage of the things in medical textbooks. Okay. This is Rick asking this chair of neurosurgery. Yeah,
Yeah, what percentage of things that you find in medical textbooks, basic and advanced you think are false based on your understanding of what we actually know now compared to when the textbooks were written and he said, 50%, and then he's and then Rick said, and yep. And then Rick said, I do, I was y, Dy, 2, and then Rick said, and what is the extent of impact on treatment of patients? Modern-day and his answer was one word incalculable. Oh my
God 50%. 50% in currently used medical textbooks, meaning that the literature has been updated with new, understanding new scientific papers, but it is not yet been incorporated into the medical
education. Let me, let me say something because I know that bears have insane senses of smell that are many times stronger than a Bloodhounds, and famously can smell people from hundred 200 yards away. Like
There's got to be levels to it and I just can't imagine that a bloodhound doesn't have a better sense of smell than a
person. Right? So they absolutely have a better sense of smell in under the definition that they use it. They use the same number of receptors differently in other words, the resolution of your vision and a mouse's vision is dramatically different. The resolution of your vision is very sharp at the phobia towards the center of your eye and actually towards the
For you, could anyone can just do this, you wiggle, your fingers out here in the periphery and you can't see any detail, right? As you move that forward, you can see detail. Okay, so and that's because the density of pixels. So to speak in the retina is much much higher near the fovea near the center than it is at the periphery. Okay? So what he's saying what Nom sobel's laboratory. Has found in others have found is that the number of pixels the potential for olfactory resolution in humans and in Bloodhounds is essentially the same. This is his argument but that blood
hounds sniff much more. So it's the equivalent of having their eyes open much more right in these. Mm, so to speak. They have these vortices that are created by the structure of their of their nose and nostrils. So they have longer exposure and in the case of the bear, for instance, I don't know how many olfactory receptors. They have relative to a human or a bloodhound but that the bear is likely spending a lot more time and can pull more are perhaps. We don't know, but his using the, the mechanical.
Of the olfactory system differently in fact. And here's now I'm recalling the experiment that led to this conclusion. That humans have exceptional olfaction, which is that there's a particular compound that when introduced to a swimming pool, people can detect a difference in the smell of the water. At a dilution that is outrageously outrageously smell like skunk spray like skunk spray forgive me because I'm not remembering the name of the chemical but he said, you can essentially add a drop of this to a swimming pool and then people can smell the difference between the water.
And so, his argument is not that humans are walking around sensing all these smells consciously as well as a bloodhound or as well as a bear. But that we have a tremendous capacity for olfaction that, you know, that the chocolate tracking experiment exemplifies. But it requires some removal of our most dominant sense vision. And hearing are second, most dominant sense and in that case tactile orientation as well. And so the idea is that, you know, we have an amazing
Apparatus. In fact, he he makes the argument and there's evidence for the fact that as soon as people meet and they've done these beautiful experiments, people meet, they shake hands and you know the next thing they do they tend to within about a minute. They wipe the scent of the other person on their face typically I guess I wasn't paying attention, they don't realize it. People don't realize this and just
do it consciously. Yeah, so I think, mercaptans also known as Thiel. How do you say that the heels? Where's sulfur? Containing organic compounds of the strong unpleasant owner there colorist
And yellows liquids. It can be flammable mercaptans are found in nature. And in living organisms as a waste product of metabolism and in oil and gas, there are also present in certain foods such as some nuts and cheese and in decaying organic matter and marshes,
right? So we're probably sensitive to the odors that that matter doesn't kill us that can kill us. He also has this idea that I think is starting to take hold and real data that we are constantly sensing our own odor plumes that we are, you know,
Week, we smell ourselves a lot of times per day. That's actually very normal behavior, right? You know, they're all sorts of ways. People do that, that nobody talks
about really check a
sniff people check their Sniff and it's an indication of hormone status, immune status when you have babies or puppies. Like you know, you're looking at like, oh, is a good poop or bad poop, you know, you're also paying it people, some people will smell the poop. I'm not a proponent of that but we're constantly sensing the scent and taste of for instance, our partners saliva, right? I actually an ex-girlfriend of mine wrote to me recently. I don't know.
What this question represented. But she said, do you think that when you become an attracted to somebody the the taste of their mouth becomes bad to you or the other way around when you become unattractive? I guess she might have been dating somebody and like maybe it had fallen out of favor and she was kind of not attracted and she was sort of noting that the taste their mouth. No longer like it. Tasted kind of aversive. Now, I supposed to be for, I
bet that's in your mind. Hmm, I bet you don't like them anymore, because if you're really in love,
Someone you don't even care. If they have bad breath, I still want to kiss them. That's true because you just love them. You know, can't you? Yeah, that's true too. Hey, you don't care if they smell. You don't care. You just you love them. But if they're gross and then they smell you like, uh, right fucking stinky asshole. This this is a mule deer skull. This is not as Extreme as an elk, but you get a look at the internal if you look inside of that. And you see ya because they can win.
And you from 100 yards away, easy.
So, see the spongy stuff. I don't know if they can see it on video. There's this spongy stuff. They're not something called the cribriform plate. The cribriform plate is a bunch of Swiss cheese like thin bone and the olfactory neurons, which basically sit like right behind your the back of your nostrils, they they send axons their low wire like connections back into the brain and when somebody gets hit hard on the head that cribriform plate shears, it and that's why people become an awesome if they lose their sense of smell,
ya, look at that.
Comparators know what's
amazing about the olfactory neurons is that they are among the very few neurons in the human and other mammalian nervous system that regenerates throughout the lifespan. So there's a little area of your hippocampus where there's some neurons that everyone makes a big deal of that. Frankly don't do a lot to regenerate throughout the lifespan so called neurogenesis new neurons but the olfactory neurons even though their central nervous system neurons, just like your retinal neurons are your cerebral cortex. They can regenerate throughout the entire life span and they do every time
Somebody takes a head head or there's some you know shearing off of these axons. Axon scuse me, they regenerate now. Under conditions, like we saw this a lot during covid. Work, people were complaining about loss of smell. We see this when people age some people are thinking that loss of smell may be a correlate, not the cause, but obviously but a correlate of age-related cognitive decline, dementia and Alzheimer's things like that. There are a few things actually. I think I recommend it to a couple of friends of ours. Now this there.
Very little data on this but I will say and I'll catch heat for this but these days I catchy anyway, so I don't care. They're good data, in my opinion, small amount of data but let's call it decent enough data to explore that alpha lipoic acid at 600 milligrams per day. During the time when you starting to lose your smell might rescue some of that smell.
So by Redlands, getting covid, and they start to lose their sense of smell.
If there are any viral infection where they are, losing the sense of
what
other viral infections, cause a loss of sense of smell.
Well, anything the clogs, the sinuses certainly, but they're influenza viruses that do this. Now, I know as we're saying this, that some people say, in fact, no M Sobel told me that he felt that the data about alpha lipoic acid. We're kind of on the weak side but when people are losing their sense of smell and taste, it's really scary. I mean, it's one of those things where, you know, you kind of feel like so much of pleasure in life unbeknownst to us is? Yeah. Merged with food. Oh, I'll never forget when I got a viral infection and I took and I
My sense of smell and I ate a handful of blueberries which I love and it just tasted like bags of water. So I was like, oh goodness, like I don't, there are worse things
covid that you lost
her, see what it was and I did the smell training which is also been shown to work because these olfactory neurons, this is amazing. Their survival is activity-dependent. They require electrical activity driven by sniffing and smelling it is true that the behavioral tool of taking a lemon and
Really just like getting it close to that nostril and just really trying to get whatever little whiff of lemon. You can and then taking you know, your coffee and getting that little whiff of coffee, whatever little remnants of smell that you can get in there has been shown to improve the survival and eventually the durability of not just the olfactory neurons but sent. In other words, the behavioral training works there are the alpha lipoic acid thing is debated. The thing about alpha lipoic acid is diabetics and people with blood sugar issues, probably shouldn't take it. They can kind of reduce blood sugar a little bit but when I
That happen. Lost my sense of smell. I was like listen I don't want my smile back so I took 600 milligrams of alpha lipoic acid and I was doing the scent Trails like sniffing lemon, sniffing coffee sniffing parmesan cheese sniffing. Anything that was punching that I could recognize and I smell came back in a couple of days. But then again, I don't know because I didn't run the control experiment. Right. What whether or not it would come back anyway
is it only positive smells or what about if you smelling salts or something? Like really
intense with smelling salts? I've never used.
But oh, but oh well guess what do
We have some, we've got some right here. I'd be willing to try. I think,
are they legal before I do something illegal? Okay. All
right. Yeah. These are totally legal, right? I'll give it a shot. These are the one. This is ah, Zhu Zhu mu Foo, it was a real athletic freak. Who uses these? We I don't know him but shout out to him because this is the strongest shit we have ever tried. I will just this one sealed too. So
yeah, I'll just do a little. I'll just try a
little. Are you gonna get all up in there?
Come on, just like the cold Plunge.
It sounds I got to find story about the cold plunge to tell you later but that relates to you, but
we'll get to that in a moment but you're about to get your mind blown here, son. So this stuff is so strong that it's sealed in this bag. Is it gonna kill my olfactory nerve know, you'll be fine. It's so strong that even though it's sealed in this bag, I have to rip this bag open. And oh my God damn, my hands are slippery. Got a knife.
Okay, it's so strong that I broken. The Seal of this bag just slightly look, it's still kind of seal. Look. You could smell it through the bag.
Well let's try the know Michelle. Give us an
F
Oh yeah. Yeah, right. Okay this bag is still sealed. I haven't even cut the bag
yet. So as somebody who had a laboratory with chemicals in it for a long time, now we run clinical trials on humans, but so no more chemicals in my lab.
Okay. But I'll take a sniff. You
learn to waft it. You let him to
model the bottle. It's not even out of the snow. Oh yeah, the bottle still sealed. Oh, this is just the beginning,
you know? When you go to a park and you go into a public bathroom at a park that
has a pool. Yeah, I'm getting nervous. I'm
no Elon Musk. But I saw what
Opens, when people do substances
almost, that was legal in the state of California. And I think everybody's getting a lot out of a little out of hand.
You got trouble. You're like we're down here in Texas. So
okay. Now again this is totally legal. Now what you're going to do here is
take this, is it amazing that the word legal when said fast sounds like illegal? Yeah, legal. And then you go. Wait, what did you say?
It's totally legal
and vice versa, right? Yeah. All right. So what do I do?
Unscrew the cap. Look, it's my initials.
Unscrew the cap. All right. Put about 6 inches from your nose. Dig. A Big Stiff. Get in there. All right. Yeah, baby. Let's go. Now, imagine if you had
Coke. Wait, wait. Well, they just kind of experience that for ya. Take it
in. I'm gonna have. Well, you know what's interesting or wouldn't be fair? You know what's interesting?
The fresh ones are subtle power filled in my
eye because the sinuses
run. Oh, now it imagine if you had covid you can smoke over there. Huh? I imagine if you had covid and you lost your sense of smell like this might be the key to getting it back
as long as it's not killing olfactory. Neuron
only is killing it. You can smell everything after I mean that's true my own. I'm obviously biased. So because I like that thrill for whatever reason we haven't.
I actually enjoyed that.
Thank you. We have in the Green Room of the mother. She has
prompted me to take several new experiences can talk about. But one other thing before I forget, I know I go down these like, nerdy rabbit holes here, but when I did the smelling salts, a moment ago, I sniffed with both nostrils, but it came in mainly through my left nostril, right? And so I asked him. So what's the deal with this left nostril? Right? Nostril stuff, you know, you have the the Yogi's the switching of their nostril things here's what's Wild. This is so wild.
It turns out that every two hours or so the dominant breathing nostril switches. Now now that could be interesting or that could not be interesting, right? There are a lot of things in biology that happen but like what is the meaning turns out? It's a direct reflection of a shift in your so-called autonomic nervous system from parasympathetic. Dominant to sympathetic dominant meaning for more relaxed to more alert and this is happening periodically throughout the day like a seesaw and during snow
So this whole thing with the Yogi's of, you know, breathe through one nostril or the other nostril. Look, it's the olfactory bulbs. There's a lot of crossing over of information at later stages and even some early stages, once the information gets to the brain. So, that whole thing is probably a little bit like, weak sauce, but this idea that you're breathing easier through one nostril. The other is reflecting an, underlying brain, State and body state. That is absolutely true. He tells me. And and the last thing is, you said why would bears are
Have such better smell. Well, in the case of a bear deal size of the olfactory bulbs and the amount of brain real estate devoted to processing. That information is much more. So we have a huge visual cortex. Most of our brain frankly is devoted to vision and to movement whereas you know the the brain of a let me think of like a turtle. It's mostly movement at very low cerebral cortex. Maybe that's not the best example but certainly in a scent Hound, the olfactory bulbs are much bigger than they are in.
A sighthound. And both of those have olfactory bulbs that are much, much bigger than Jamie's Bulldog over there. Those guys sniff all the time there, but they're mostly snorting trying to get sense in their smell sense of smell is much, much worse than Marshalls than your dog, because Marshalls a retriever.
Yeah, that makes sense. Because he can smell his ball. Like if I throw his ball and he misses it, he just starts doing a circle and then he finds it with his smell, which is crazy. Yeah, smells this ball. You
know,
I'm incredible. So so what gnome is saying is not that humans have smell that is as good, but that when you push the conditions, you can reveal a heightened sense of smell that most people don't think humans have. Now, as I say this, there are a lot of people out there and it's usually women who are like, oh no, I can smell everything. I can smell the subtlest difference, and so it may be something related to maternal Behavior. It might be something related to estrogen. It might be something in the Y chromosome that suppresses that we don't know, but some people are very olfactory. They can smell.
Well when somebody's not feeling right or when they're not feeling right. Yeah but it's absolutely the case that we're constantly taking the chemicals off other people through shaking hands through hugging rubbing them on ourselves. Analyzing our own smells
unconsciously. I always say that I can smell bullshit. You probably can't. But I don't know if I really can smell it but when someone's lying I feel like there's a smell
it. There could be the stress. It could be a certain you know we talk about stress is one thing but stress is the dosing of different levels of cortisol. Epinephrine people are
The Liars, they can probably do it without evoking those things. Then you have things like pupil size, bigger, the pupils more arousal, right? The more stress. Somebody is why we know this, right? That's why. I like, if somebody takes a stimulant, so pupils are get huge.
There's a thing that people do when they're full of shit where they're anticipating your response in a different way. Like when someone's telling the truth, like if you tell me the truth, you seem relaxed to my response, like you're telling, even if it's something that you're not proud of, you're
Tell me the truth. This is the thing when someone's lying, it's almost like they're waiting to see how you buy
it so that it's like their defenses are up there.
Counterpunch quickly. Well, they're selling it. They say it and I like does he buy it? Like you feel the, does he buy it like oh you're full of shit. Oh interesting. You know, Jan.
Let me think about this. So you are able to sense the their anticipation of your responses. Like they've got queued up some counter.
Some evaluating where your whether you're going? Yes, no or maybe? Yeah, but it's not
reliable. Like I just speak to be completely honest. I've been bullshit it before but I think I'm better at it than most. And I think maybe that's because I've had more conversations with people than most people have. But it's not 100%. Sometimes people are full of shit and you don't, you're not sure or you have your defenses
down. I mean, I've been badly badly, manipulated me. Yeah, yeah happens. Yeah, my
best.
If you like someone, you know, that's part of the problem, you don't want them to be full of
shit. Yeah. And some of the best manipulators, certainly in my experience are people that have really figured out the combination lock of the things that like that, I have felt deprived of and they come in and she wore and those tend to be unique things like that, you can't get anywhere, you know? And boy, somebody said to me recently like there are certain categories of humans that I just I can't be seduced by. I'm not talking about just sexual seduction right that right right.
No, I'm saying that it just can't be seduced by and then there are some people that just are able to get past that force field. And so I consider myself pretty good at threat sensing except in that domain where like my threat sentencing is like the equivalent of a stuffed animal.
My friend, Tony always says that erotic and psychotic or so close to each other that, you know, like it crosses over back and forth and I think there's something to that to that some of the craziest people are. Also some of the sexiest people
For some weird reason like you will you want to be with them even though, you know, they're dangerous like they're crazy. Like there's some weird thing going on there almost like you want wild kids because wild kids could survive better. That's interesting one, you know I'm saying?
Yeah I mean I think that the one listening to a really good book that a really smart person suggested to me called five types of people that will ruin your life and and I only wish I had read it years ago and
Here's the main takeaway that they're about 10% of people out there and it cuts across all the standard labels of like Narcissus and borderline and all that. Like they're include some of that but they, they depart from that and they just focus on. What is the guy who's a psychologist? It's written, my guys psychologist. He's worked a lot on conflict resolution over the years, courtroom type Stuff, Etc. And he says, in this 10% of people, they are high conflict people but within they like conflict, they feed off it. They like drama.
They like conflict, they like creating it. But within that category, it's pretty evenly divided. He claims between women and men and then there's a further division. We're about half of them, play Passive and victim, but are highly manipulative. They use other people to try and basically Farm. Yeah. And then the other five percent are very like aggressive and abrasive. And so he has this great set of protocols, I love protocols that are essentially like don't move in with me.
Mary or get engaged to or have a child with somebody in the first year. And this Cuts in both directions just don't make that agreement in your one as well as for any behavior that kind of cues. Those senses gets your Spidey senses up like you were describing, ask yourself, would 90%
Or more of people do that behavior. And if it's a no, like you have to pause, in other words, what he's saying in this book is that most people are actually pretty healthy, but that most of the woes of the world are created by about 10% of people, which he calls these high conflict people, but they don't always come out. High conflict, like screaming and yelling. They're often very tactical and manipulative and very vindictive. They'll leverage victimhood. They'll leverage a lot of different things and again cuts across men and women equally he claims and
Again, I don't know the data behind this book, but the book itself just feels like a very useful thing that everybody should know about. So I'm enjoying reading this book going. Oh my God, I wish I had this book years ago, plus I'm realizing like, oh yeah, like we always hear this. Like most of our problems come from a very small set of people and
things and most of society's problems. And
so, who are these people? So we tend to call them narcissists, are sociopaths are psycho, you know, but those labels while very useful in the clinic, I think have been overused in the general public and like we're not clinicians. We're not diagnosing.
And so, but difficult people that can ruin your life abound, but it turns out it's only about ten percent. So, and it has some very specific Protocols of how to deal with the people who are more outwardly aggressive versus play victim, Etc. Very useful book. I think. Yeah.
Sucks that. You have to think that way though, they just enjoy someone. Enjoy their cool. If they're in the if they're in the 90%. Yeah but that's the problem. But yes Zig when you should have zagged and you run into a ten percenter, take a year. Yeah but years a long time.
Time though. Yeah. Also people can learn like what you tolerate, and don't tolerate and hide certain types of behavior from you. Yes. Yeah. Could be a real
issue. Oh, I've definitely experienced that. And it's and again, I think we are often you mentioned that the relationship between erotic and manipulative and crazy or just erotic and crazy. I think there's also that when we finally receive the sorts of oh no love or affection, it's not always sex, it's not always sexual, right, right? Like somebody like
Like rubbing your feet or paying, you know, paying a little extra attention to what you say or something for some people
that's intoxicating and it's a lot of it is paying attention to a lot of it is like listening to what you have to say or asking you questions about your thoughts and your feelings, which a lot of people are unaccustomed to and that's intoxicating to people, because a lot of people just want to talk about themselves. So when someone wants to talk about you and really is asking questions about your feelings, you know, that can kind of manipulate you in a weird way.
Yeah. It almost feels like a like a parental type of
Of care that we're probably wired to look for. I mean, I always Marvel at this and also just kind of shake my head and go, why, why did God design us this way? But, you know, that the circuitry in our brain that creates infant child. Attachment is the same circuitry that is repurposed for all other relationships. In adulthood, it's not like you get your like, your childhood attachment stuff and then you okay. Well, you know you're like 15 16, you're moving on, in the world you're hitting puberty. You're starting to date a bit whatever. Now let's like work with a
Different set of mechanics, a different set of algorithms. No it's the same set of algorithms repurposed. We know this based on the studies of infant child infant parent attachment and on the basis or infant caretaker and on the basis of studies of romantic, love, it's the same circuitry. So you're using a set of algorithms and circuitry that were designed for one thing in a very different
context. That's interesting in this probably makes sense. Why a lot of men with
Very overbearing mothers seek overbearing wives.
Yeah, yeah. I
you know, I I've learned so much recently about just how it is that, you know, we can lose our vision of like other people, right? Like we and I think this this thing that we hear like manipulation, it often sounds like, oh, that's like really like tactical. Someone's rubbing their hands. I think the really tricky part about it is I do think that most people in the world are just like doing their best to feel safe to get to get their needs met. I think they're very few evil.
People,
right?
But in this sort of pattern of repurposing childhood attachment patterns and then people will bringing that forward into their adult attachment patterns. I think what ends up happening is that, you know, people quote, unquote, trying to get their needs met. Oftentimes like the worst ones, sometimes called trauma bonding, but they kind of go lock and key or somebody identify somebody that's really healthy and they're like them. I'm going to latch onto them because like they're healthy and and they get and you say well the healthy person should be able to spot all the land mines but if somebody's
Able to really tap into the like something you didn't have or something that just feels Like
Oxygen,
right? Goodness gracious. Like, you could be the smartest will most, you know, well, acclimated person with the best parents or whatever upbringing which most people aren't. But, you know, some people do have that and still fall kind of, you know, into this fog that is like, gosh, like you want to be with this person but it's, but it doesn't feel good. You know, that that mishmash and I think the thing I've learned clearly is that
When you feel that trepidation run, don't walk like it's not like the gray zone is actually the thing to just exit. Fast gray, doesn't mean like hover and check it out and let it run some experiments here. Ticking bomb get out. Yeah, yeah. Run just run. Yeah, just run. It's
also I think there's some people that are very sheltered and they've been well taken care of and they're not accustomed to manipulative people and they're not accustomed to dangerous people and so they don't, I
I've seen that before. Both with people choosing the wrong friends, and people choosing the wrong Partners.
Yeah, that certainly hasn't been my pattern not that I had the hardest upbringing, but it was always a easier than some harder than others. But I always had great friends, great friendships. But my threat sensing, it wasn't always great in romantic relationships, for sure. I've also had some great relationships. I think what tends to happen is that, if we're very busy, we have this tendency to, to be easily manipulated.
By certain things that are unusual that we just that really feel like extra oxygen to us or just feel so nourishing. And because I think people always will often out, default to sex like it's all about sex, depending on who you are. Like, sex is either more or less readily available to you, right? Like I think that for some people to nurturing like to a certain form of nurturing and then there's also this thing of we know how to survive certain things, so they don't feel as dangerous. So people who had like very, you know, overbearing,
We're or complicated childhoods or abusive childhoods, sometimes they're set to perceive danger at way too high a threshold, right? Right. So their perception of what's dangerous is like way too high and so they walk into even still dangerous situations but they don't think of them as dangerous and they're like oh I can navigate this they're good at navigating difficult people are they're good at navigating you know borderline people or something like
that. I think it's also exciting which is part of the problem is that people like excitement and
If you have a boring life in the life, that doesn't have a lot of stimulation in it and then you find someone even if they're bad for you. But they're exciting. There's some, some conflict, some something there's, there's fights and breakups and then makeups, which are exciting, you know? And so then you get locked into this stimulation pattern which is our I've seen that multiple times with people. It's a real
problem. Do you think it's more of a problem with people that like excitement and adventure and are super curious, but like it.
Citement and Adventure. So I'm thinking Comics, I'm thinking people who like, high-intensity sports that they seek relationships, that are higher intensity. Because, you know, I have received great advice from people like Rick who said, you know, your relationship should be a sanctuary. That should be where peace is you know and actually I don't pay a lot of attention to Instagram, kind of little mottos and things but someone sent me one that I was like, yes. But feel so true which is that men eventually
Settle where they feel peace.
Yeah. I think that's probably the healthiest way to do it, but I think people like, like I said, I think people like stimulation and I don't think a lot of people are stimulated by their day-to-day existence. I think they're bored. I think a lot of people are just like trudging along every day and then when someone comes along that makes you excited in your life, you know, where someone who's just a little Wilder, a little crazier and maybe some lady's got a bunch of tattoos. Like, look at her, you know. Whoa.
You know, people get excited by people that are a little bit dangerous.
It does idea that anything could like Like Anything Could Happen, they'll do
anything the risk people. You know, someone's got tattoos on their hands, like Jesus. What is she
doing? Yeah. You know I both have a lot of tattoos but I've kept it intentionally, kept it off the hands and I don't know
my hands but it's the face is a real problem. Like that's a little wacky but I have a lot of friends like jelly rolls, good friend of mine. He's got tattoos all over his face. Post Malone good friend of mine, I think interviews. All she's got a bunch of
Written shit all over his face. Yeah, I mean, they're the nicest people. The thing about like jelly roll and post is like, once you talk to them. Once you're talking to me, you don't see the tattoos anymore. You just see the human. Yeah. You know, it's just like them wearing a shirt. It's like, no, it's nothing. You know. It's
normal and things have changed a lot. Like I was born in 75, right? So I'm heading towards 50 quick back. Then, the tattoos on the face
was crazy.
My one of my childhood Heroes and somehow by the grace of God, he's become a close friend of mines, Tim Armstrong, lead singer from
Francie to has a tattoo of a spider web on his head and a spider on his neck and I remember seeing him when I was a kid at a show me like yeah too scary and Lars frederiksen Francis says skunks on his forehead. They're super nice guys. I mean there
are Travis Barker is supervised guys that Tim will then travel through the trash dude. Yeah.
Tim Travis do transplants and like you see those guys are like whoa. Now I think it's shifted a little bit but back then I remember thinking like that's gnarly. That's a tough guy. Yeah, you know and certainly Lars is a tough guy and
You but the, you know, I remember seeing it like, you only saw it on bikers and like gnarly, punk rockers able
to checked out a society. Completely
Mohawk. Is to be you're not getting a job, right? Yeah, I know it was wrong used to remember when a nose ring or I am ring cover, you go into Starbucks in the person would have it covered up, you know. Like because they weren't away, they weren't allowed to have it.
Right, right. Right now it's icy medical
students with, with eyebrow rings and nose rings and stuff. So things have definitely changed.
Yeah, we're a little bit more open-minded to decorations, but
It. So it is a thing though that you're taking a giant ass Chance by tattooing your
hands. Well, friend of mine whose is admittedly as a psychologist said you know tattoos are largely an expression of what you feel on the inside, put to the outside and I was like that. Sounds good. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. No, just art.
It's I like art. I like art on my walls, I like art on my arms. I like art.
There's some Rogan tattoos out there. I saw Alex Friedman face tattoo. There's a bunch
of Lex frieden face tattoos. Okay?
He's had a birthday. Oh, you did too happy birthday. Thank you very much. And lacks happy birthday.
Yeah, there's a lot of, that's the weirdest one this tattoo Woods of people's faces on your body forever and there's I don't know how many of them are me, there's thousands of them that. Well, I mean I've used to post them on Instagram all the time but that I thought I was encouraging people to get my face tattooed so that they can. I put it up on my Instagram but it's kind of crazy.
There might be some reward Loop circuitry going on
100%, but before I forget this, can I ask you this?
The people that are into this smelling salts stuff, their power lifters and they take a big sniffing that stuff before they lift weights. Why would that help them? Adrenaline
adrenaline. So a couple of more things about olfaction, by the way, I love this stuff. This is so wild because it's the most primitive part of our brain and nervous system. We were chemical sensors before we were light sensors, right? We were sensing chemical environments, is this safe chemical environment and we evolved from that, right? We know that for instance,
Memories that are associated with smell like, the people say, the smell of my grandmother's kitchen or somebody's hands, my grandfather's hands that those memory stick with us longer than anything because the olfactory bulb has a direct line to a couple of structures in the brain. We so we have an olfactory bulb which is the main thing for smell, then there's one called the accessory, olfactory bulb. And so a divides into primitive smells that are like, aversive Get Away quick. Those tend to go through a really fast line through the old accessory. Olfactory bulb takes us straight to the amygdala to the pier.
Reform cortex. It says move your body and facing away from that. Like, I didn't sit there and right round the smelling salts. Like, boom, get away. It's like a reflex. It's like, in fish. There's this thing called the mouth of the neuron where you touch on one side of the body was the fish. Do goes the opposite direction. Big huge neuron hardwired circuit. Well, they have those lateral
lines that detects a cassette sounds and things and vibrations in the
water sensing Electro sensing at a distance and in these maldor neurons are incredible. You touch. Boom. The fish-heads the opposite direction doesn't go like oh are you another friend?
Fish. You want to mate. They got. I'm out of here. Oh, and then they check you out, right? And as so, it's a reflex for safety. The olfactory system has these two Pathways the olfactory bulb for kind of like, oh, this is Black Rifle coffee, you know, and then there's the smelling salt one that goes through the old at the accessory. Olfactory bulb straight to the amygdala, which is associated with threat detection, and other things straight to the pure form cortex. And then to a motor circuit, Boom, turn the head the other way. Get out, exhale, don't inhale mmmm aversive okay so I think
About smell is that, you know it's got these very hard wired components, okay? And they're set up for either appetitive like mmmm let me Explore More sniffing more versus avert as opposed to aversive behaviors. Like getting get me the hell away and the these brain areas are among the more ancient brain areas. Now I say ancient people, nowadays start picking apart at like well it's not just limbic and cortex it. Cortex is part of Limbic. That's all true but if you look at our brains and you look at the brains of like a turd,
All or even a snake all the stuff we're talking about. Right here are all, they're not exactly the same but they're all present when you get to humans, what you really add is a lot of cerebral cortex for the thinking and Association stuff like, you know, I've been here before, so I'm a little bit less, you know, like this looking around as much as I did last time. Like things that, you know, not context-dependent learning context dependent stuff, whereas all the highly reflective stuff is going to be hardwired circuitry. You find in every animal, every person,
And you need to divide things into 33 different responses in humans. Okay. In order to survive. Yum, I'm going to move toward it. Yuck, I'm going to move away and me there's basically three motor responses to anything, yum yucker met. Now there's a there's a matter of degrees. Like you might see somebody you really like you want to know Joey Diaz or something you know you see him like you want to run over to see him, right? So there's an appetitive circuit moves you towards it. See something a little odd. You might pause. I don't know what that is or something aversive, like something happens in the in the parking lot and your
Getting the hell out of here. So the brain is complex as it is needs to divide things into one of three different motor responses, forward, pause or Retreat. Okay, that was playing with Jamie's dog out there. Before I was like can I couldn't get him to back up so it's kind of cool about the Bulldog, right charge him and he just goes I'm like 20 times his size but he's just
like well he's also never experienced anybody being mean to him so every year except a little few dogs. Yeah. Apparently but most of his experiences are play like he knows he just run up to you and bite you and you play with them.
Right? So you said about why the yes smelling salts and adrenaline so here's the deal when we have this aversive response the move away. The yuck response. Get me away. There's a parallel response in the brain and body of the release of epinephrine. Adrenaline has the same thing. Sorry for the Dual naming
epinephrine, adrenaline or the same thing,
same thing, long complicated, boring history. As to why it's named two things nor adrenaline or epinephrine, same, same molecule.
So
so let's just call it adrenaline first.
Simplicity adrenaline is released from the adrenals in the body and it's released from a area in the brain called the locus coeruleus which sends out a bunch of little wires axons to sprinkler the brain with adrenaline and both systems work in parallel. So when you smell something aversive it goes, inhale. Okay, so factoring certain olfactory neurons q that to the accessory. Olfactory bulb am straight to the amygdala, amygdala, sends a signal bra down to the, to the adrenals, Atop The, the kidneys,
He's they release. Adrenaline sends it to believe we're not a signal up to Locus, coeruleus it. Sprinklers the brain with adrenaline, and you just had within a couple hundred milliseconds, you just got a parallel adrenaline response in brain and body that allows you to do what more easily move to. Now you're ready for motion. You're ready for movement. In fact I'm sure if you put that under the deepest sleepers knows the middle the night. They're going to wake up. Yeah. Like like a you know like a gunshot what they used to give it to
boxers and they
Hurt in the corner that given smelling salts and wake them
up. Yeah because one of the best painkillers is adrenaline. Hmm? Because you've been hit hard before. Isn't it amazing? How little it hurts when it happens and how much it hurts later? Yeah, it's kind of crazy. It's crazy.
Another thing that's weird about fights like while they're happening. Your shins are getting battered things. Getting hurt you don't you don't really feel much adrenaline unless you get kicked hard to the body. So liver shots doesn't matter how much adrenaline you have pump into something about
getting hit in the liver, the liver when you get hit like right here. If you get kicked or punched right here it's a crazy feeling. It just shuts everything off. It's real weird. Your body just shuts off. I've seen these images of like somebody just like melt. It looks like they melt salt and it looks like they take a few paces and they're like ready to counter Punch or something and then it hits slowly. I don't know what some shots, go away. So like some pain, like, if you get punched in the gut and you're, you know, you're tidying up in anticipation, it's
Hurts it hurts but then you move a little bit and then you're okay again. But the liver is the opposite, the liver you get hit, and then there's this like sharp pain and a delay and then everything just shuts off. It's very weird, it's very hard to fake and that you're fine and move away. You see like telltale signs? Like one thing guys will do all the time when they get hit in the liver, they drop the right arm down and they pin it to their body. So maybe they're fighting like this. They're moving their way.
And liver. And you see him do like that. And they're still moving but they can't help it. They have their arm press because they know one more shot there and they're fucked but so they barely can keep a poker face and move around. But there's telltale signs you see that are just instinctive, you see them just drop their hand. And a lot of times guys will use that to set them up with a head kick. So like they'll hit you a bunch of a good example that it is Islam. Makhachev and Alexander volkov ski. He hit him with a left kick to the body multiple times in that fight and then fire off one too.
And knocked him out.
So it's like they just hiding. This is like just Lodi the
leg come up and it's very hard to recognize. There's a kit called a question, mark kick and it's called a question, mark kick, because in Taekwondo is to call it a fake front kick, roundhouse kick and what it is is you're lifting the knee up, as if you're kicking to the body in a straight line and then you whip it over and go like that and turn it to Round House, kick pull up, glaube feitosa glaube. Feitosa was the best dad.
It so much. So that a lot of people started calling it, the Brazilian kick because this guy was a K1 champion who had the most flexible hips, and the craziest question, mark, kick, and he would literally bring it up and down over the guard. So your hands would be up. This like, you think your hands are protecting your head? He would bring it up around like this and drop it down your head and knock people out Chris. It's so wild because to this day, I don't know anybody who can kick as good as him with that kick.
Like to this day he has the best highlight. There's a lot of people that are really good at that kick but glaube had a very unusual flexibility of his hips. Watch this look at this. Well that's just a regular one but he's got some of them that go over the test is some of his highlights. Look at that see how it does that see how it just goes something
around it also said his knee just
got. Yeah watch this. Watch this. He's gonna do it in slow motion. Watch the whip of it. Look at that, that's so crazy. So
You don't even know it's look how he just whip it down. And it's just there's a lot of people that are good with that but he was the best at it. I mean, the best it was just weird to see how he could do it.
I'm always amazed how people can kick standing so closely.
Oh yeah. Well glaube was it's just flexibility of the hips. It's leg dexterity but the way he could do it, man. It's just he the finest question. Mark, kick of all time. I mean, here's knocking out some
She'll to his seven feet tall with it. It was bizarre to watch that kind of flexibility and also bizarre that no one else seems to have really kind of captured that technique as well as he did and globba used to fight. I mean this was like okay well there's Israel out of Sonia to really good one too. It still has a really good one. Look at this one. Wow, but that's a little bit more straightforward. I mean that's like straight to the chin and it's a beautiful cake, but the way glob he's to do it, it would go over the top and
Down. See that? Like, that is so crazy. I can't do that. I've been throwing kicks my whole life. I can't throw it like that.
I'm always watching their eyes and these fires eyes and it's amazing to me like, years ago, I saw Mayweather fight and it was obviously I'm pay-per-view. And, and he was getting paid for sure, right? That was his thing, but it was always amazing me in the slo-mo like, where he would slip, Pontius Pilate centimeters.
I think that like his depth perception and the depth perception of Fighters must successful Fighters must just be Exquisite because I mean like slipping at that distance would just touch in
movements one thing but it's also pattern recognition, you've been doing it so many times. And, you know, so really good Fighters. One things that you see is they don't just charge out in the first round. The first round is like a feeling out process, so you're downloading a lot of data points. You're downloading foot movement and a lot of guys,
Watch tape and they download it from that but then you don't really know until you're in there with a person. So they're downloading positions, they're downloading what a guy does. Like if you, if you pivot to the left, does he move forward? Does he move back? Does he throw the left hook? Does he throw the right hand? What does he do? And how good is he at closing distance? Does he try to fire from where he's at? Or does he skip forward and fire? Does he give any telltale signs? Does he Telegraph? So, there's a lot of things that a fighter looks for.
Whether it had some of the best counter punchers in the history of the fucking sport, he was so good at like staying in the pocket so he was an elusive guy there. Yeah, exactly slipping I don't recognition pattern recognition so he knows that left hook is coming and so look how straight he throws that right hand, see how straight he threw that. So Canelo is throwing these big wide punches and Floyd is just cutting them off at the path. And then moving his head out of a line of those.
Books that come his way.
So do you think it's conscious, you know, I'm obsessed with this notion of unconscious genius like, you know, like different domains of super high performance where the people don't exactly know how they do it, but they do it.
Well, you know how you do it, but you've also done it so many times in the gym and in fights that it's second nature. So you're not thinking of it as you're doing it. One of the things about countering people is in Isis.
When I was in my Prime, when I was fighting all the time, I was throw kicks and they would land. Before I even knew I was going to do it, because someone would do something, and as they would do something, I instinctively knew, because of pattern recognition, there's going to be an opening like say if some guy lifts his left leg, if he's standing his left leg forward and you lift, his left leg, and he's coming towards me with his left leg. I know that he's bouncing on that, right leg. And the left leg is coming this way, and if I spin and catch him, I can catch him as his MO
Momentum is going this way and I'll catch him that way. And we'll double the power of the punch or the kick and
somebody teach it to you because there there's like a conscious awareness of how you do it. Guess what? I'm I think this notion pattern recognition, it's interesting. Because earlier we were talking about pattern recognition for finding people are lying, right? You have this pattern recognition thing that you know, you're not saying it's perfect, but I can sense. There's something, there's things that and so it's a combination of things that we aren't always aware of. That's the unconscious part of the unconscious genius thing and I'm referring to. And so there's this idea like our brains, our pattern,
In prediction machines. And so, do you think like in other words, two questions? What do you think, Mayweather was ever pulled aside? And said, listen, pay attention to their left shoulder and keep your eye on his right eye. I'm trying hundred percent. Okay. When were you ever told? Hey if his left leg comes up, that means he's bouncing on his, right? So you need to prepare a counter attack or an attack.
So what you not? Swear drills. Come in. Okay, so you do drills and you do drills constantly. And one of the things that Mayweather's father was a great fighter met with his father,
What Sugar Ray Leonard back in the 1970s, when Sugar Ray was in his prime and gave him a hell of a fight and his brother, or his Uncle rather's Uncle, Roger was Roger Mayweather. The Black Mamba, he was a great fighter, so he grew up as a child around some of the best boxers in the world. And so he was constantly seeing the successful motions that they did and constantly seeing them, exploit weaknesses in other Fighters and then constantly sparring, so inspiring, you know,
Spot. You're not just fighting when you're sparring, but you're sort of downloading data you downloading data points for a real fight. And then you're doing drills. Where a guy will, you know? Some guys, they'll do it with mitts. Well, they'll throw hand at you and they'll slip and counter here. Let me show you this. This is Guy, Elliot, aporia, and Ilya to pouria is one of the absolute best fighters in the world. He's the current UFC featherweight.
Ian, and the dude is just fucking phenomenal, but when you in one of the things that's phenomenal about him, is his technique, his technique is is perfect. There's like no fat in his technique. There's no wasted movement. So, when an opportunity presents itself, everything is so fast because the technique is so streamlined. But like look at how he hits the paths and when you watch out he hits the pads and Mayweather is a great example that as well as I sent it to, you know, didn't go through.
But totally sent it. Hold on.
So they sent it.
No. I yeah. It's on Instagram. I sent it to you though. On a text message. Really. I said it twice, you got it. Okay, aleeya to Port, like I said, one of the, some of the best hands in the support current UFC featherweight champion and knocked out Vulcan offski. Who was maybe the greatest of all time. Watch him hit the punches. Look at this. See how he's moving his head when the guy throws punches just slipping just slightly,
it's like, total economy of movement
and this
Speed, man, the fucking speed of that. Look at the hand. Look at the hand speed, fucking incredible. I mean, if you know how difficult that is to do and do it that fast? Give me that Sound again. Let me hear this.
I mean these are like 56 punches a
second. Yeah, it almost sounds like it almost looks like it's sped up by 11 and a half times one, but it's not
and just phenomenal technique.
But see how those Punk's like they're not even talking so when he's throwing them, it's at his head, get him to duck. They're not, there's no communication. He just sees that hand coming towards him and he's ducking. He sees this hand coming towards him and he's ducking. It's all like, slight slips away and it's slight motions, which is all you need to get away from a punch, right? You just you don't want to move too far, are you wasting a lot of energy? And you can't counter attack. One of the best things about Floyd. And one of the most brilliant things about
Um, he's one of the most elusive fighters of all time, but he didn't move around. He stood right in front of you and you couldn't fucking hit him. That's true. Mastery of space and true Mastery of technique. He was he's, in my opinion, he's the best boxer that ever
lived. Yeah, I mean, I'm not qualified to rank people, but I watched when he was making that Ascent towards it ended up being 50. You
know. He just fought last weekend, this weekend. Yeah, you fought a, he fought a match against John, Gotti's grandson.
Which is crazy. That's scary for a lot of reasons. Yeah. For a lot of reasons, right. But this is the second time they fought. The first time they fought, it ended in a brawl. Let It Go like bunch of people jumped in the ring. It was crazy because they stopped the fight because they were talking too much shit to each other, and hold it on to each other too much. So the referee stopped the fight. For whatever reason I don't know. And in this fight was even crazy too because the referee was the first referee was terrible and the referee called Floyd said, Floyd Mayweather hit him behind the head, absolutely incorrect call.
Lloyd through a right hand and it caught him on the side of the head and the referee claimed that it was behind the head. So Floyd fired the referee in the middle of the bout. They say he stops the bags. I get the fuck out of here, get out of here promoter also. Well I guess I mean also it's Floyd Mayweather, like what's the referee going to do, fuck you? You know, I'm going to stop the fight like he also there in Mexico City. Like you get killed like just get out of the ring buddy. So Floyd throws this punch and he's 100% correct. The
Punch landed. The side ahead. It's a right hook, it's a perfect punch. And the referee was saying, watch the back of the head. He's like, what the fuck are you talking about? That wasn't the back of the head. And so, he kicks the guy out and they bring in a different referee, who finishes the fight, which it was insanity and Floyd one. It was an exhibition, it's kind of a bullshit, money grab honestly. So this is, you see the punch. That's the punch right there. It's just a right hooks. He's saying back of the head, like so Floyd's, like get the fuck out of here. Just get out of here. Fuck you. Get out of here.
He's like, get the fuck out of here and if anybody's qualified to say, get out of here, it's fucking Floyd Mayweather. The best boxer of all time. He's 100% correct. That referee made a giant stupid error. He's like, get out of here. Get out of here. He's like, get out of the fucking ring. This is his domain. Yeah, it's in. He's right, everybody watching it is right. No one thinks. It's a bad Punch. If you slit see it again, we can see one more time, it's a counter. Right hand was doing, we could see it in slow motion. So he throws the punch. Boom. It's just a perfect.
Right hook. It's a perfect right hook. What it does is a punch that goes over the top of the guard and catches him. An exposed area of the head is perfect punch and for the referee to interfere there and also it's like it's literally like someone who probably does not a box at all telling the greatest boxer of all time. The, what he's doing is wrong which is just bananas, crazy. So you got rid of the guy in the middle of the fight but he's still doing these bouts. Maze at 46 years old, still boxing these young kids again this
John Gotti, the third who is a very good up-and-coming MMA fighter. So you know, he has all the weapons takedown submissions kicks, All That Jazz, but he's choosing to fight Floyd in a boxing fight just for money. Just like Conor McGregor did, it's really a trick. He gets these people to box with them. They have no business boxing with them and he's making millions and millions of dollars doing this way after his competitive careers over,
which is because he's are in that right?
Hey man, he's a genius. He really is a genius is
Genius and figuring out a way to keep making money and one of the reasons why people watch him fight is not because he's like Mike Tyson just goes out and destroys people. They like watching a fight because they hate him because he talk so much shit and he's like, look at my million-dollar watch. Look at my fucking jet. Look at my house, look at this, he's like constantly showing you all these things that he has like he'll lay out watches and a hotel bed like this is a million dollars worth of watches. This watch goes for two million dollars in the like this is my small watch that I take sometimes but I want I'll show you when I was
Show up. I bring out the big boy and it brings out. This watch is covered in diamonds. It's like fucking five million dollars and so you hate him. People hate him. He creates Envy. Yes. Yeah. It creates envy and you want him to lose, but he's not gonna he's not gonna, he's to he's so good. But the other thing is discipline, right? You don't he's not just listen cocky guy who's like really good at boxing? He also has incredible discipline. I've seen doesn't the program running in the middle of the night. He would go to a nightclub with everybody else. Be drinking water, everybody's partying, having a good time. Floyd
We'd leave the Nightclub. At two am, have his bodyguards drive the car and he would run in front of the car for hours run home. Two o'clock in the morning, right? 56 miles.
And did it all the time. Just always did. His always fit, Always In Shape, never got fat. Never got lazy, always was ready. And so never, really experienced Decline. And then decided at a certain point in time like after the Conor McGregor fight. Okay, I'm done. Done. Did it all beat everybody Undefeated by now, he just has these, these demonstration fights where they're weird little exhibitions where he just beatin people up that have no business in the ring with them?
And one of them, he was walking around with a fucking a card her ring card. He took it from The Ring card girl and started dancing around. So he's like he's enjoying under no threat
whatsoever. He's enjoying life. Will people like to be angry? I'm always calling to mind a study. I'll keep this really brief. But there's a famous study by a guy named Robert Heath, who is a neurosurgeon and he put a bunch of stimulating, electrodes into the brain of some humans, getting neurosurgery and he offered them, the opportunity to stimulate any area they wanted and it stimulates some areas and they'd feel happy or giddy or
Drunk or sexual arousal or whatever, you know, the one area that all there were only three subjects, but for human neurosurgery, that's not a terrible subject. Number the
Area that all three of them preferred vastly over the other areas to be stimulated evoked, the sense of anger and frustration, really? Yeah. People like to be angry
which is why Twitter so popular.
Yeah. And to some extent Instagram and I don't know for sure. But
Twitter is the one the most because it's mostly just talking mostly just text. Instagram is photographs and you could just I don't comment on people's very, very rarely. I might have commented on photos 12 times in my life, you know, just a
A friend, like, that's awesome. Way to go something. Nice. But I don't even read comments, but I look at pictures. I go. Oh, that's cool. I'll look at that video. That's fucking crazy. I'll give a little tap DoubleTap. Give you a little heart, give you a little love and then move on about my day. But in Twitter, I'm constantly just engaging with people's thoughts and arguments, and debates. And that's why I think Twitter's the most addictive of all the social media Platforms in terms of Engagement. But not as addictive as Tick-Tock in terms of it compels you to continue to.
Watch. I want to keep going with this but I have to pee so bad. I just did this on it before we got here and I drank sixty four liters of water. So or 64 ounces, rather. All right, we'll be right back. We were at people like to get angry and you were saying that you had another urged. Take another sniff for the smelling
salts. So I'm observing something interesting about the smelling salts. Like it definitely like Brock hits hard and then feel really good afterwards. You feel it in your body? Hmm feel it in my body and then I notice there's kind of a hunger for it, right? Like another hit. Yeah.
Yeah, like maybe in 20 minutes or
so it's like a cocaine thing.
Oh, allegedly. I've never tried cocaine either. Good for you, but that's what I hear. Yeah, I wonder, I doubt that hits the dopamine circuit, but the little valuable signs. Tidbit we hear so much about dopamine. Adrenaline. Look, there are three molecules. They're called the catecholamines, dopamine epinephrine, adrenaline and norepinephrine noradrenaline and they are actually by some are biochemical derivatives of others. And they are cousins. They work like a little
Like a little clan of molecules to raise alertness and focus and drive. I think the great Robert sapolsky said it best. He said dopamine is not about the pursuit of pleasure. It's about the pleasure of pursuit.
Hmm, that makes sense. That's why he's Robert sapolsky. Yeah, it's all about the
journey. It's right. So you combine motivation with adrenaline, which gets your body in a position to move better and noradrenaline, which kind of works in between those two. It's a little more complicated now, worth going into but they work as kind of like a
A gang of three to raise alertness directional, motivation and go. Hmm. And so, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little bit of a dopaminergic aspect of those smelling salts. Yeah, look it up and see my I certainly like it. It feels good. It feels good buddy. Lex. Yeah. And I weird and I like, you know, that's why I've never tried cocaine or amphetamine like. I like up States. Yeah. As they call them
me to same thing. I've never tried to Adderall either but I've been tempted. Oh yeah, people tell me about my
Jesus. I've never tried it organized.
Don't, I'm trying to think of that. There's some, you know, there was a chart out on Twitter. We were just talking about Twitter where all the different nootropics or let's not call them smart drugs, but things that can enhance alertness. Things like Alpha GPC, as you know, 600 mg Alpha GPC. I don't care who it is. That's like where's their double-blind placebo-controlled? Study that shows it raises alertness and focus look as much as I believe in science. You don't need a double-blind placebo-controlled. Study to know this swift kick in the shin hurts and that 600 milligrams of alpha GPC is going to make you more.
Alert. Is it safe? Did double-blind placebo-controlled studies for Alpha
Brain, right? Right. And so they exist and and certainly, that's one that I would put kind of high on the tear of things for. If you want to learn this in Focus, it's certainly more benign than a lot of prescription drugs. The
Canadians also really effective for that too. And I don't know how many studies that are on that,
not as many theanine takes away the Jitters. Like 100 to 200 milligrams of theanine will take away the Jitters associated with stimulants, which is why, it's now in a lot of energy drinks. So you'll see Alpha GPC theanine, sometimes I
Tyrosine, which is a precursor to dopamine, but there were a couple of things on that list, including prescription drugs. Like modafinil, for instance, where, which was originally designed for the treatment of
narcolepsy. Was it designed for that? Or was it designed as a performance-enhancing drug but they needed a way to prescribe it both.
Yeah, so it for the treatment of narcolepsy. It also has been shown to improve alertness and cognitive function in sleep-deprived individuals. So you can imagine military finding that
Reusable, new Vigilant provigil, right? Correct. I took that stuff for a while ice was taken it. And you know what, I would really like to take it like say if I had a gig in San Diego and I was done with my gig at like, 11:00 is like I want to go home. I don't want to stay in a hotel, fuck it. Let me drive home. And if I would drive home there, be that risk of this. The Sleep coming on, because of the, there's a weird thing about being on the highway about those
lines. They fucking hypnotized. So yeah, it's really. Oh, yeah, and the
yeah. And so
For anybody out here, listen to this because this is my manager told me this. It's really important. If you think you're going to fall asleep, there's a great way to mitigate it. That's pain-free, get a rag like a washcloth, and some ice, and some water and have like, a little thing next to you with a cold wet rag and just wipe that rag on your face and then you're good for like five, more minutes reach in there and start home manage can't sleep again. Wipe that rag in your face, you wake right up. This is a great one free. This is a great
one and it fits right in with what
What Matt Walker says to do the opposite to fall asleep when you wash your face with warm water? Take a
hot shower, I go to the song or
doing this on. Everyone says, well, you're heating up your body. You need to cool down to fall asleep but you heat up the surface of your body and the medial preoptic area of your hypothalamus, which is your brains thermostat. Says, Hey, the surface of the body is heating up. What should I do? Cool down my core temperature, and that puts you to
sleep? Would it be bad to do sauna and then cold plunge and then try to go to
sleep? I do that if I'm late in the day and I'm tired, it's not a problem. But I end with kind of a war machine
Our,
if I want to be alert and on cold, if I want to go to sleep, run and with
one, which is why I start the day with Colt, right? Wake up. And when you
get in the cold, the surface of the body gets cold, that's kind of a no-brainer and the core body temperature goes up because the medial preoptic area your brains thermostat. Says wait the surface of the body is cooling down. I'm going to heat up and waking up in the morning is largely the consequence of body temperature going up. So why do you wake up more quickly in the cold? Well, body temperature goes up more quickly. Also big
A shot of adrenaline from cold water, nobody escapes the adrenaline from cold water right at least upon getting in as long as it's cold enough. And last time you picked on me about how warm I'm keeping my eyes bath can't even be called a nice pesto. My cold plunge is now set at mid 40s. That's better. You getting better, but I still go into the sauna at 210 220,
by the way, I don't know if I'm right, I'm probably wrong. My wife doesn't want. She wants to get a second cold lunch because she doesn't like how cold mine is because mine has ice in it.
You're probably in the
30s. Yeah, it's 34. It's fucking cold as shit. He smote, kind of the I've got a new one that I got from Orosco for, we have to. So we have one here at the gym. That's a blue cube. That's this one's insane because you can crank it and you turn up the knob and it'll be like a flowing raging River.
Help. Well and the flow breaks up the thermal layer on the outside by when you're sitting in the cold plunge, always say those stoic things where people are in the cold plunge, real still. Yeah, looking tough. Tell that person to sift their arms around. Let that cold water.
Either getting your armpits. Well, what's happening is you're breaking up the thermal layer that keeps you a little bit warmer. This is why we huddle in there because it's not like you're making yourself. Like it's like you're wearing a jacket if you move or if the water is moving. Yeah, much more
effect. It's painful for me to just check my watch to see how much time I got. Left socks. Yeah, I have a system down if I count slowly to 10 two times. So I count to 20 and I know exactly how long my breath is for it to be three minutes. I know how to do it, so I do it. Now that's awesome.
Little cheating. You know what I doing?
Yeah. And I can't believe I'm gonna admit this publicly. You know what I do? I got two little rubber duckies in there. Once a tougher looking rubber ducky and his name is Rogan, I'm not kidding. I shot a video of this. I'll send it to you, my producers going to kill me, but then there's another one and that's huberman and it's you basically teasing me about what a wuss I am. And I do that for the entire time. I'm in the cold plunge. So I forget that I'm in the cold plunge and at the end you go, okay, you can get out now and I'm like, okay,
well, here's what it is. I don't know if
The cold is any, it's if it's any better to be 34 degrees or if it's any better to be 45 degrees, what 50 degrees, but what I do know is that I don't like 34 degrees so that's why I do it because if I feel like I can get away with making a little bit easier, I feel like a bitch so that's why I do it as cold as it can get before it freezes solid which is seems to be 34 degrees. Well, this gets to something that I know we've talked a little bit about before offline not on microphone which is
Doing hard things translates to an ability to do hard things and probably translates provided doesn't kill you to a longer life.
This, you've explained that there's actually a part of your brain that
grows this. So there's a brain area that most neuroscientists aren't aware of called the anterior cingulate cortex. OK, scientists who are in the know, know about it. It's, you know, I teach neuroanatomy medical students at Stanford, it's an area that we cover in passing, but they're a lot of brain areas you got to get, you know, can't get everything. But in the last couple of years they've been studies of
This area of the anterior, mid cingulate cortex, that make it super important for everybody to know about not just a neuroscientist. And here's the deal colleague of mine at Stanford. You'll perv he's he's a neurosurgeon, he's in there stimulating different brain areas, including enter, amid cingulate cortex, in areas near it in human patients. While they're awake, preparing them for neurosurgery for other reasons, stimulate Centre mid cingulate cortex. And what do all people who have their interior mid? Cingulate cortex report, they feel like there's something about to happen somethings kind.
Looming a challenge, a storm, some report as a storm or a physical challenge, but their overall sensation is one that they want to lean into it. They want to challenge it. Now, this area has subsequently been imaged and people who are successful. Dieters it grows larger and people that fail at a dieting or nutrition program. It gets smaller people. That Embrace a new form of exercise. And here's the key point that they don't want to do this area gets bigger people that are just doing things that they enjoy doing does not change in shape or size. Now, here's where it gets even
Even more interesting, the interim it cingulate cortex is larger in volume in a group of people called super agers. Okay. That's a bit of a misnomer because it implies the age faster. They actually age more slowly as it relates to cognitive decline. The slope of cognitive decline is not as steep in these people. Meaning they're holding on to cognitive abilities longer than other people into older age and the universal quality among the super agers is not just a larger enter mid cingulate cortex, but that they challenge themselves to do things that.
Challenging and they kind of don't want to do or really don't want to do. So when we hear oh you know people should do. Crossword puzzles to maintain their memory. Probably good to keep some cognitive flexibility going. But if you love crossword puzzles, you're not going to grow your enter mid cingulate cortex. If you love 45 degrees in the cold plunge, after an hour, long run in the Hills, which I do probably not going to do much to grow this area. If you really don't want to do something and you do it, this area gets bigger and it's got inputs and outputs from all of these different brain areas that make all of this make sense like,
The dopamine system like the learning and memory system like the areas of the brain that say no, I'm going to retreat from that subversive, but you push yourself to do something that you don't want to do this area gets bigger. And the best part is it translates to an ability to do harder things, elsewhere, this to me, I get obviously super excited about because it's nested in human data and animal data in real world, examples of dieting and exercise, and aging and Longevity, and all of that. And it speaks too much of what you've talked about on this podcast for years and years, which is do hard things.
It will give you an ability to do other hard things. But if you love doing deadlifts, honestly, even sets to failure on those deadlifts. Enjoy them benefit from them. All the wonderful things that come with doing, deadlifts great, but you probably also do something that you don't enjoy doing. If you have an interest in the kind of benefits that we're talking
about, well, completely makes sense that your brain would have to develop an ability to continue to do difficult things and that that ability to not hesitate and push.
Push through the ability to not procrastinate and go forward. And that thing is probably like all things. It's like cardiovascular endurance, muscular endurance, like you develop an ability to do more of it because of that, right? Because your brain recognizes, this is something that we're going to have to deal with. Let's figure out how to respond to this,
right and movement itself, like, physical movement or cognitive movement. If you're learning new things like comedy preparing, new things, learning, poetry, or drawing. Like, I used to draw Live start drawing. Again, carry around this notebook everywhere. I'm not going.
Of the drawings. They're just for me, but pushing myself to do something that I enjoy. But that like there's a barrier there. You any good? I mean, I do anatomical drawings. Let me see what you got. I got a lot
of X there. No, it's like Super PAC. I think here's a superstar. These are just my personal. My favorite actually just
might my journal book notes but my but I've actually used to post my drawings on Instagram. That's how I started. Real 2019 I was thinking about having a podcast, I was just posting pictures of the retina talking about the when did we meet so 2019. I start posting
On Instagram 2020. I came on this podcast for the first time. Okay. But you were in l.a. at that time, right? And yeah, and then I went on Lex's podcast little bit later and then he goes, you should start a podcast so I started in January 21.
Yeah, okay. So here's some of your wow,
pretty great. They're not there just for fun there. Just for fun, not bad. Like I like to use them to teach so they're not listen, I'm no DaVinci, but that's
pretty fucking good
actually but the point I'm obsessed with this thing that somewhere between
Perfect accuracy and total representation of biology like, a brain or a set of cells and at the other end of the Continuum, like ball and stick. There's like a perfect sweet spot for teaching. And so, what I'm doing there is what I do in the classroom. I go. Okay. Listen, when you talk about how muscle releases a micro RNA, that helps you burn fat, and then I can remind people, like there's fat, there's a, you know, so I don't want too much detail but I don't want to little
detail that's good. Like the anatomy of the hand is dead on, that's really good. So I'm trying, I'm trying.
I know that's really
good. And of course that's not anatomically, correct? Like the nerves, don't spit out of the tip of the finger, right? But when you're trying to teach
Dude, that's good. I yeah, that's really good.
Yeah, like I'm just trying. I'm not again, I'm not trying to be DaVinci. I just want people to learn at the information, so
my daughter's is insanely. Oh yeah, well, I wanted to be a comic book illustrator when I was young and I always wonder, like, how much of talent gets passed on kids.
It's hard to separate nature and nurture, their, honestly, I think there's something there. There's something. There's something because
there's certain people that like, if their parent was a singer like, but then you go, well, maybe they were singing.
House a lot when they're growing
up, people going to think I'm weird for saying this, but I don't care. I am weird, I'ma say it. Anyway, scholes the way he moves, like how live he is. Hmm. As parents are like dancers and performers. Right? Right,
right. Also, he's a good boxer. Is he really?
Yeah, like just his movements are so a typical and like he's like, it's like watching him is cool. Like you looks cool, the way he moves, he's free. Yeah. And there's a skateboarder
Named Jimmy Wilkins who is like breaking every barrier on skateboarding and his, he actually uses its knees to contact the board and move the board. While his hands are free and he's a smaller guy, real small, real lied, super loose ankles. And I said to him, like what do your parents do? And he goes, my mom is a ballerina and my dad's an Orchestra conductor this guy's using his knees on the board. So like he does everything, not everything but does a lot of things, hands-free, at mach speed for people in skateboarding. They probably just want to see flips and 900 variables and that's tough School.
He makes everything look so good. I mean, Jimmy's for those that are in the know Jimmy Wilkins is the next is like the next like, Tony will say Tony Hawk. Everyone will say like, watching Jimmy, look see that. The, the whole thing here is that Jimmy's skateboarding is like perfect poetry light so the reason, but so his back knee is often used to stabilize the board because he's got that hip looseness that you were talking about earlier. And so his yeah. He's
He's dancing, crab 1 X Games last year, not this year this year, he took third. So
those guys get banged up. He goes guys, get a lot of concussions. He's
big on the, the nicotine. I'm trying to get him to quit the nicotine so he because he loves the nicotine. But between why you get him to quit? Like I don't have a problem with people taking nicotine pouches, but it is it's a vasoconstrictor raises blood pressure. As long as you're healthy and other ways, I just think that I see people go from like one pouch to a canister a
day. Oh yeah. It's just easy.
Ramp up the dosage to I like three. He's like mild 3 mg mg but I Lucy sent me some that are 12 Jesus
Louise's. I can do like half a piece of Nicorette. Put
that the 12 in my mouth for like, 30 seconds and my body's like, get it out of here.
That's a lot. I mean, it seems like you're good at keeping things in that useful, but not excessive domain.
Yes. Well, I'm a control freak in that way. I know I want to be in control. I don't ever want to be out of control. Like, I've never been addicted to a sub other than coffee, I guess. But I've,
I've taken time off a coffee too. Just because I know that I like it too much but coffee doesn't overwhelm me, right? So if I felt like coffee was overwhelming me or if it was difficult to acquire or illegal, I probably would quit
coffee juggle, but at the rate, the world's going, it's
probably gonna be like, well, it's always good. The reason why coffee is legal and is a reason why they created math, really because it's good for productivity, like coffee to keeps you from getting tired, it's good for productivity. It's also enjoyable people. I got a nice warm liquid.
Love and and since I really got into coffee from doing this podcast, really, I drink it. Black, I like coffee. I like taste. I look forward to it. I have one every morning. I look like, I like it,
but I love it in the afternoon.
But if I thought it was fucked with my life, 100%, I would quit. Yeah. You know, I mean, I've had times when I left, I was drinking too much or mostly because of Comedy, because nights you're out with your boys and everybody wants to drink. They're all drinking my friends are all drunks like like a good sign.
Oliver said he doesn't drink, no Whitney does not drink, but a good solid percentage of my friends. Drink a lot. They drink all the time. They drink at clubs, like trying to get her to quit, but is not going to quit. Well, he asked me to help him. Well, he doesn't. Otherwise, that's want you to talk to him. Let's talk about Bert, that's what he want, but that's what he wants. So let's talk about me. Let's talk about me about how I have to quit. God, come on, talk to me about me, let's make it all about Bert. That's a bird legs. He's targeting
quit. Well, he was doing better with his health and then he posted that photo himself in the wet suit.
Come on Bert like get with
it to get fat again was just send me a picture the other day. We saw skin. Easy lion
was looking for like a melted
candle, son of a bitch he got big at least to get jacked. You started lifting
weights, I feel bad, making fun of him but I'm not making he likes it. I'm just worried that you're talking about is worried about his
health. Oh yeah, that's not good. Bert, I'm worried about your health. Well, the thing is Bert is on tour, right? He's got painted toenails to the fuck you doing. He he's on tour so he's on this fully loaded.
Tori's doing all these Arenas with all these friends and they're doing activities. Constantly, they go to water parks. Do I don't think it'll water parks did, you know shit like that for a unicycle Bell or something? They do that too, but he gets drunk every night. And it's not just like a little bit of beer. It's a lot of beer. It's a lot of they have a vodka company. Now, that's not good. Now, they have their own vodka. So he's
saying everybody loves a young drunk, But as time goes on, it's does not look pretty.
Yes. But there's a curve when it comes back.
Ground again, you see a ninety-year-old? Got its Hammer, that guy's fun like then they're, they're wild again, you know, a 90 year old guy with like a fucking straw hat on and a gun. He's drunk.
The yeah. I
must say, like, kind of risk Thompson, when he was before he died,
mom, and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed your comment your Live Comedy.
Thank you. Thank you very much. Watch it three times. Thank you. That's another that. So that one was another example of doing something. I didn't want to do because they offered me to do it live. And I was like
Fuck that. Like I want to be able to edit mistakes out. I want to have you know have four shows and pick the best one and do that. I want to do it fucking live. That's cruel. Fucking knees that
pressure. It was so good. I watched the first one with my girlfriend. We watch it as it was happening. Then I watched it with my friend Tim when he was out, he's out on tour. Like green, de reims, all these 90 bands match, the 90's band Smashing Pumpkins are out on tour like stadiums with 90,000 people, that crazy. It's crazy. Peggy, I went out because I've like, you know, big rancid fan and I like the other guys too, but I'm big big.
And it sounds like holy cow like people love this stuff again. Anyway, we wash it again there, and then I've watched it again, I will say it felt very cathartic to me. I don't know how it felt for you but it felt really cathartic the subject matter, the subject matter. And also like the next day was pure like delight and just baffled and shocked all at the same time. When on Twitter, I see a clip taken completely out of context.
About a bit about taking things. Out of context, just like life would like looped back on itself. You were talking about things being taken out of context and they were taking it out of context. They like cut it. Yeah. And I was like, wait, I remember that very differently because I remember things I hear pretty well and I was like, went back and I was like wait he's talking about things being taken out of context and taking it out of
context. Yeah, they don't care, but there's always some people, they're just they're not, this is not in, good faith. Everything they're doing is just trying to find something wrong with everything you're doing. And it's usually people that
Their life is a mess. There's no one who does that. Who is a healthy accomplished person, who has great relationships in their life and it's doing really well at some skill or chosen profession. That they enjoy very much right, they're not fulfilled, right? They're not people
are trying to politicize something or other trying to get clicks off your name.
You there's a lot of that for sure. So there's a business in that and then there's also people that are doing like MSNBC did this recently and there's they
This is gotten so popular that my fucking stepdad contacted me to tell me. He's happy that I'm suing MSNBC. I'm like I'm not swimming in this NBC but this is what MSNBC? Did they took a clip of me talking about Tulsi gabbard and they edited it up and made it look like I was saying great things about Kamala Harris. Wait, what? Yeah, they the
I mean you and I have been mashed up on other stuff in Ai and I don't want it. Like you said, we don't draw attention that they got taken off the internet. Thank goodness. But it was bullshit.
Like it was a i and and mash up
there's a lot of big bad about with
us. They did that about
politics. Yes, they did about politics, but they didn't do it, like AI, they just deceptively edited, the things that I was saying took a completely out of context where I was talking about. First of all, is talking about Tulsi gabbard. And then I was talking about that the media behind Kamala Harris, all this Surge and all these people just deciding that she's good, she could win and they put the two of those together and made it seem like I was
As praising Kamala Harris and saying a bunch of things that aren't even true about her. Like I was talking about Tulsi, gabbard being a congresswoman for eight years in about how she served overseas to deployments in medical units. Dealing with people were blown off from the war. Like that's not something. Kamala Harris. Did something Tulsi gabbard did. I was just saying things about her and they put it out there as a clip of me, praising Kamala Harris but they don't care about the truth. They just want of narrative to get out.
Are amongst enough people because most people are just surface readers right there, read a headline, and I be guilty of that many times. You read a headline. Oh, I know what that is, and then you shot your laptop. I got it now, I got the hold the. So, if you read an article that says, you know, Andrew Schultz is a liar, like, oh, he's a liar, I heard, he's a liar, and they just start repeating. He's a liar. It doesn't have to be real. And so all they have to do with something, like how many people are actually going to watch my Netflix special.
Oh well as a lot but compared to the amount of people in the country, not a lot, you know, small percentage. So all you have to do is take something out of context from someone who's never going to watch it in the first place. Put it in front of them. Like, oh, that piece of shit. Can't believe he said that even though I'm literally talking about things being taken out of
context. The part about this is so frustrating to me, is that like at some point especially as a scientist, right? Like, that's data selection, right? Thank you. If you look at data and like and you look at it, scientific experimentation starts with a question.
Generate a hypothesis, you collect data, you publish the results and you get to State your conclusions. Now, let's talk about what you're talking about in the world of science. You, I don't think there's a lot of outright data fraud, but a lot of experiments that don't work people come up with excuses to eliminate, but there is some data fraud, right? Oh, there certainly is some data amyloid plaques thing with, there's certainly some data fraud and and there's a range of underlying reasons. One of the more common reasons that people don't talk about, which is something to really strongly inoculate in Laboratories against.
Is when a laboratory is known for doing very, very good work. Oftentimes The Graduate students and postdocs that get, there that go there. Feel like they need to give the boss, the result. So sometimes it's unbeknownst to the person, running the lab there, been a lot of cases in recent years of papers being discovered as having major issues. And that's like what did you do after the lab head, or do you go after the person who did it? Lab heads are responsible for everything in their lab, a eyes helping with this because you can scan data and look at things but, you know, ambition is a dangerous thing.
You know, if somebody puts ambition ahead of accuracy. Sure, so there's that kind of thing and then there's outright data fraud. I mean, there was this nanotechnologist guy from some years back. I think his last name was shown who had like 20 papers in science and nature in two years and it turns out, he wasn't even bothering to. He was fabricating data, the papers were all retracted and I don't know what he's doing now, but the noise plots, the random noise plots in these papers were the way he got caught, what?
Turns out is that I'm juggling because it's like, he was so lazy. Ambitious, but so lazy. That he didn't even bother to use new random noise plots from one paper to the next. Somebody said wait random random should be random. Why is it the same in these two papers? Boom, and then the whole thing unraveled eventually, so lazy. So he was particularly, he was particularly ambitious, lazy. And that was outright fraud right there. All sorts of other cases and things like that. And you know, there's people who make this their sport to talk about most scientists are trying to get the correct answers.
You believe that most scientists have good faith. They're trying to get the answer, but it's hard scientist heart. Now what you're talking about to me, sounds like people deliberately grabbing from the palette of paints. That is the words that are spoken by anybody on the internet. Yeah. Especially people with podcast you or me or anybody else and then literally cutting and pasting things together to create a story which is
fiction to know ping. Trip is no, you don't know. Pink trip, pink trip is hilarious. He's a guy on the
Net who takes clips of podcasts and creates narratives of things that are totally not happen. Yeah, I've seen some of you won recently, me and Tucker Carlson or having an argument. I haven't seen that one. It's good. Somebody says to me, I'm fucking send it. See if you can find, I remember one of you and
Ilan. Several, perhaps, yes. I know that.
So paint, stripping trips it. No, it's a dude. Okay, his name is pig, is here it is. Pink trip. So what it's visible, what?
Always is real. Are you joking? You're a science denier what? Stop?
The the bodies of science have bestowed, the truth. If you ignore it another fucking lecture from you I'm going to go crazy. Did you start having shut the fuck up? Bitch. You're fucking idiot.
Don't do that anymore. What you gonna do about it
bitch? What do you do about it?
You are literally powerless. Yeah, I'm just gonna do whatever I want. You could get your ass kicked.
Are you threatening me?
Yeah. I think you are a far-right white supremacist racist. Respect for your like
my dog.
Does it ever occur to you?
If I was rude narrowed down my bigotries it's like people like you either. Secure
disgusting.
So these are actual spoken words guy couch
together. Yeah. Yeah about completely different things. It's really masterful. Do you want to die? Watch 7.62 by 39 and shoot you can you catch the bullet?
You can't do that. What are you gonna do about it? Why would you hide that? Isn't that funny? But this is funny, right? He does that with a lot of stuff like people pretending to be in love with me. Makes it like there's a romance which are so good and different people but it's that's funny. He's doing that's art, right? He's making a story that doesn't exist. It's really funny, right?
There's people that do it just to either. In this case, it was to promote. Kamala Harris to get the, you know, the passive listener. The people that are the Casual to go. Oh wow, Joe Rogan looks calm. I
heard you, I heard you're endorsing a not endorsing. All sorts of people that
can't say even say I like somebody without it being an endorsement and people getting mad but I think the Maga people are happy now the Robert F Kennedy's now with Trump so I
think if unified they've unified the belts.
Yeah, I think we're in a very weird time.
With the media. And I think truth is super important. And I think someone that's willing to do something like that. That's a real offense. It's a real offense. It's a small thing. It's a real lie and it's a lie that changes other people's opinion. Take what's perceived to be an influential person and you distort their views in either a way to shame them. Make them look bad or to promote someone else. Like, that's a real lie, it's a dangerous lie. It's a real offense. And I think that
There's no laws against that right now. It's except libel law. He could take someone to court, I guess, but there's, it's a real bad thing. It's a real gross lie and it's used right now to manipulate public opinion. Yeah, completely
out of context. Hmm. In the example, you gave, yes, certainly, I'm familiar with examples where context is completely cut off at the point where at least to a false conclusion. Oh sure. Like where the story is,
Is completely different. The reason I gave the counter example of Sciences, you know, when you're trained as a scientist, you're trained to try and pars what's real and what's not real, and give the best, you know, version of that that you can and then you are allowed to State your conclusions. But I have a question at what point do you think the general public will come to understand that? This is the way that a lot of things that they see out there are constructed to some degree or another and
Stop actually believing it. It depends on who the public is that. This is
the issue right now, with Boomers, right? Old, liberals in particular, all they do is watch the news and read the newspaper, and whatever is printed they believe, and it's very difficult for to get them to consider like, hey, maybe someone's lying. Maybe this propaganda campaigns, maybe there's like this widespread media narrative that they're pushing because corporations are behind in advertising is behind it and they're figuring out a way to manipulate the public opinion on things.
It's very hard to get old Boomers to believe that because there are old, okay? So they're set in their ways, their mind has formed around, you know, I am a liberal, I am a Democrat, I've been a Democrat my whole life. This is how I feel about these issues. This is, this is my community, This Is My Tribe. These are my people, and the news says this, and I'm with them and, oh, great, we're up in the polls now and for them, it's like they're on a team that it might as well be the Dolphins.
As the Raiders, it's the same kind of mentality in their head and they don't want to be challenged. They that little part of their brain that exists when you challenge yourself and do things you don't want to do that. Bitch is shrivel up to almost nothing and they're real boring and their lives are entirely excited by political
discourse. Do you think it's all Boomers?
Yeah, it's mostly Boomers. I think young people are way less likely to buy into the bullshit. Now, there's young people that are ideologically captured for sure.
You see them both with right-wing? No. Sorry with left-wing
people. Sorry. I mean do you think that all Boomers believe in the traditional media like
this? It's mostly because they grew up with it. They're the ones, the the kids today. They don't buy it at all like gen Z kids and whatever the fuck that. What's the newest it says, what's the latest whatever these kids are these young kids coming up today like people in their 20s, they don't believe it
at all. Well, I'll tell you, you know, I'll non reluctantly
You know, my dad and I over the years, like we had some early issues and we resolve them and we're good now, but when some not so kind, press came out about me. They interviewed a lot of people interviewed, a lot of people from my high school class and friends, and co-workers, and then Cherry Picked for the story they wanted to create. But they talked to my dad, okay? And I would not put my dad into the political camp that you described or any Camp, really? But he's a first-generation immigrant moved here from Argentina.
Anna did his PhD under a scholarship from the from the Navy? You know, I was like story of a immigrant who came here and became a scientist was dream. Yeah, that wasn't a lot of science to do in in Argentina. There's not a lot of funding for it, right? So came here, I would say that when they reached out to him he was like, oh yeah, reporter was super nice. You know, they asked me all these questions and then he called me, he was like, I'm shocked. I didn't say that, that was completely flipped and twisted and that, you know, and I got to record those kind of conversation. I said, it's okay.
You know, it's okay. In fact and that changed his perception. I can't speak for him, but based on conversations we've had since yes teaches perception is like, I can't believe this that they would sort of Leverage this for a false narrative. You're
allowed to do it for whatever reason. You know, I have a friend who used to work at New York Times, said they were encouraged to do it. They were encouraged to this. Try to take someone down like that was the whole idea of a piece.
Yeah well that was made clear by the fact that many people reached our they had the best conversation with this person or my former when I was a kid, I grew up skateboarding.
And I wrote for this brand, you know, Thunder and spitfire, and my team manager was interviewed, and then he called me afterwards and said, yeah, I was kind of weird. Like, I kept telling him the story that, you know, that they heard about you on podcasts over and over. And they kept poking and probing trying to get me and he said, that's what happened. Andrew call me that day and said, help me. I need to get out of place, etc. Etc. And he was like, I don't get it and I was like, listen sugar ghee. Like, that's what we call him. Steve Krug. I go listen, like thanks for talking to her, but, you know, it's just the way it works. It's not about like they weren't really interested.
The truth a Russian pulling out certain language, and ex-girlfriend of mine said the same thing like I talked to her and I told her like, what a great relationship we had and then like what she printed kind of alluded to something kind of slightly different. And I just said, listen that, you know that thanks for talking to me, you know, like the goal is to collect a bunch of data like this, right? Compared to science, my domain compare, take a bunch of data cherry pick. Only the things that could work if those only were true. And some of them are just outright lies and then publish that, that is data from
Add like so, I really should go studies like many, like many. And at the same time, you know, like we're enjoying nicotine here. Are you are? Because I will say, I'm not in defense of the pharmaceutical industry Norm ion attack of them, but there are certain things that, you know, push through traditional science. You get great information about dosage and safety. Look at those empik, right? I get asked about this all the time. I don't know how this became politicized. I will say, if you do things to offset the muscle loss for certain people,
Reducing their appetite with. It might be a useful tool. It's expensive is their dependents, those are important issues, but we learn one thing for sure. From Mozambique Majora etcetera, the main cause of the Obesity crisis, is people eat. Too many calories on average about 3500 calories per day and they don't move enough. They don't exercise enough and then we can get into what they eat etcetera. Yeah, we'd have a discussion about seed oils. If we really want to cause some custom friction, I don't like seed oils. I don't eat them, but I'm not aware of any randomized control trial that says,
That they're bad. I just don't like them. I like olive oil and butter, and I like coding cooking beef and beef fat tastes better, and I feel better, I feel better. And that's enough of a reason for me
science about why they're bad for
you. So there's this whole thing about ratios of Omega-3s versus the omega-6s and you get a lot of them, I guess, sixes with the seed oils and I think olive oil is good for us. I think I will conclude that, I think drinking less alcohol or no. Alcohol is good for you. I think I'm of the belief that high quality meat is good for you. I'm also of the belief that fruits and vegetables are good for you. Like I think all the data point to these
Things, I think that the there isn't an abundance of data yet, that's a seed, oils are bad and I think Lane Norton would support that statement and he's kind of my go-to in terms of what the randomized control. Trials. Say right. But in my experience, I feel better when I'm not eating them. So I choose personally not to eat them and frankly there may be something to it, right? I mean, now we're hearing all about microplastics worrying about all that, but I, when it comes to the, the glp-1 agonists, right? I spent a lot of time on this than to podcasts were more one with an expert. One solo etcetera.
You know, of all the peptides that broke through, you know, we've talked about peptides we talk about more. There's this one peptide, glucagon-like peptide. One, that when raise two levels about a thousand fold over normal levels leads to massive, suppression of appetite and people lose weight, which for some people is an emergency situation, they're really fat and there's nothing they can do to lose the weight and they're getting sicker and sicker. My hope would just be that those people would also try and eat correctly and exercise and so the debate has become is it good.
Is it bad? Well, there's muscle loss so offset the muscle loss, but let's be realistic. Most people won't
offset the muscle loss, right? If you could do both, it'd be better.
Yeah. Or come off the Pacific manjari eventually by replacing your behaviors, you know? It's hard to move. When you're I've never been big and and overweight but, you know, the way that Goggins talks about it or, you know, it's got to be uncomfortable like when you're feeling kind of just not great, like just to move, you can get injured easily. I would say, one of the best ways to get and stay in great shape. Your whole life is yes, exercise eat, right?
Right etcetera but also don't get badly hurt. Yes, that's a huge one that nobody talks about. Oh yeah, and the number one way, in my opinion to get badly hurt, is do a workout that a friend suggests without without at 10 out of 10
well, especially with heavy
stuff, right? We're go to alone in these boot camp, things. I got the but I want to sweat a lot. You go in, you do a bunch of circuit training for an hour and two days later, your shoulders like,
oh, boy, so to build up that kind of
stuff. So, you know, I think there are a lot of themes here, but
I'm not opposed to certain Pharmaceuticals. I think certain people need drugs for ADHD a lot don't. And, you know, dose response, curves and lethal dose analysis and that kind of stuff is super valuable. What? I don't like because I don't think it's necessary is when people default to the most expensive side effect risky out of reflexive option, because I think that the basics sunlight exercise, you know, cardio and weight training,
We ran it like these things work. They work so well, they've always worked, well, no always work. Well, yeah, and I also think there's great data emerging that they transform mental health. I mean, the data on resistance training, two or three times a week and mental health is striking. I mean compare that to what people get from certain ssris and you're like, for goodness sake, 4560 minutes a week, lift some heavy
objects. Yeah, you feel better and it literally has better statistical results. Absolute than ssris. Absolutely. Not
Nuts. And I know you've
talked about this recently and I'm, you know, I'm kind of like hitting a bunch of things here, but I think a lot about this relationship between traditional science, FDA, and ihi review, grants for the NIH for years. Until very recently, I was regular study section member. I understand the process, I understand the limitations and the benefits. And I also understand that, like, in the cases recently, where the FDA decided to not approve MDMA for the treatment of PTSD. You go. Like, whoa, what's it going to take? I think.
You know, I had a lot of feelings about that ruling. I think it's unfortunate given the really strong data that support the use of MDMA for the treatment of PTSD. I mean, more than 60%, you don't successful in air quotes. Plus some people just go into total remission but the hazards are there. And if there aren't safeguards in place for the practitioner patient relationship, which is one of the major concerns, if those aren't there. Well then it's never going to be legalized. So, what is the house?
The participant with the person, that's helping them.
So there were two major issues plus some others, but the ones that I'm most aware of is that lack of adequate control group. People don't know if they got the drug or they didn't. And then the other one is during the course of the trials. There were some issues that came up about improprieties between practitioners and patients that look like sexual stuff. There were my understanding is that there were that there are certain things may have Arisen that kind of like picked up, you know, people's ears.
But the major issue was, this is a person who's under the influence of MDMA in a position to advocate for what they need during the course of the session, right? Like, are they in a quote-unquote truly safe space, but the same thing could be said of psilocybin trials. So, the solution there is my understanding is that you have two therapists there. It's not one therapist. One patient to therapist, right that there are safeguards in place, right? The same way that, you know, when somebody a brain surgeon, does a brain surgery, there's an anesthesiologist there and multiple nurses and staff to get.
And hemostats and, you know, so I think that there needs to be, I think a next phase, evolution of the way that we think about things like MDMA assisted treatment for PTSD because I do think by my read of the data and I've looked closely at these data. Despite a few retractions there, still a body of data that really point to how powerfully helpful. It can be for certain people under the right conditions. Yeah, just striking.
And there's a tremendous amount of anecdotal data just people who haven't been in a study, but talk about the benefits they've had from it and how much
it's especially War veterans, right? With both psilocybin and MDMA
and ibogaine, the work that veterans Solutions is doing with a guy at Stanford. Nolan Williams in our department, Psychiatry has been doing brain Imaging before, and after I began with the veterans that are taking ibogaine, followed by DMT and those are looking very, very interesting, you know, so to me if it's also that the kind of emotional, loading of things like MDMA, you know, when we call MDMA, if I tell you, this is MDMA this
Drug that raises serotonin dramatically raised his dopamine dramatically opens neuroplasticity and allows people to rewire their brains. If adequately supported to feel relief, if not remission from PTSD, you'd say I'm awesome. How do we move this forward safely? But if I start using words like ecstasy, I start using a now, I call it what it really is MDMA, methylene dioxide methane. Feta mean you hear methadone methamphetamine ecstasy, you start hearing a bunch of stuff that starts shifting, your brain towards
Okay. This is like a party drug. They went out. Let same thing was said about cannabis. I've done multiple episodes about cannabis I'm not anti cannabis. I think there's case studies where excuse me that's a specific thing in sides. Use cases where or examples where people with a propensity for psychosis should probably not be doing High TC cannabis. I learned something really interesting. By the way about this we brought on an expert brought on in part of those little bit of a Twitter battle I put out a solo episode about cannabis years ago. No one had a problem with it, put a clip on x0
People came at me like crazy like crazy. So I invited one of the main academics in that area on to my podcast, he eventually agreed. What was his disagreement with? He didn't like a bunch of things. I said, but mainly three statements one was that I said that there was evidence because there is a published paper must say this, there is a published paper looking at the differences in subjective effects that people experience with sativa versus indica strains. And he said, there's no evidence that there is a different experience.
Hence from sativa versus indica strains. That's just all budtender lower. You shouldn't be saying
this. He doesn't smoke weed. I don't know. That's just not true, right? So I said wait, here's the paper,
here's the paper then there were a couple other things. One is, I see agree. Once you read the paper he said he would like to see more evidence when he came on. He was very gracious. Offered a lot of useful knowledge but he he really did encounter with that much. There were some issues around CB about CBD, biology versus THC, but it
His field of
expertise. He's a he's a works on animal models, but focuses on cannabis biology and he's so he's very knowledgeable and I don't think he's anti cannabis at all but he just was he was checking me on some things that he felt that I had. Yeah, that he had his very nice guy. He was checking me on some things that he felt I had not gotten correctly or that weren't adequately supported. So, my response was I did this publicly come on the podcast, right. Like I'm Not Afraid talk science, that's what I do. Like let's go and not in a combative way. He agreed.
Come on the podcast, we had a great discussion and one of the things that he said, was the whole idea that, you know, there's so much more THC in weed. Now, that's leading to all these problems. Like, the weed of today is not the weight of yesterday. He said, when people inhale, they take it by, you know, Vape, or they, or they smoke it, or whatever. There's his words are that there's far fewer cases of people taking in more, they're able to reach that.
Point that they want to be at without going too far. However, even though it's higher potency, however, when people take it by edible right there are cases where people get to genuine freak out in psychotic episodes because they're taking in far too much too quickly, because you can eat the edible quickly, you don't, they do not layering in until they hit that plane that they want to be. Well,
it's also the conversion to 11 hydroxy metabolites, that's five times more psychoactive than th sea ice to a joke about it. That let's talk to dolphins because it is
it hides is a true story about Edibles and dolphin experience. But
so he wasn't anti cannabis and in fact, I think it was a case where maybe this brings us back to Twitter where Twitter was a very valuable tool. So I put out something, I was going off, the literature that I cited, he said no, no, listen, there's some issues here, you should adjust this. We brought him on the podcast, he was reluctant to come on the podcast. He thought I was going like set him up for a fall. We've never done that comes on the podcast, got the information out there and then it all just kind of went to
Like a quiet similar nothing and in the end I think that's the way that all of this stuff should be handled whether or not you're talking about one medical treatment or another is, and this is the way you've done it. This is the example you've laid out for me and for others, right? Which is talk about both sides, talk to vegans, talk to carnivores, talk to omnivores, talk to people, who are pro cannabis anti and worried about psychosis, and not talk to people that are really Pro MDMA for the treatment of PTSD. Talk to people who are very reluctant. Yeah, I think only they are, can we get the overlap in the Venn diagram about what the agreements?
Are and what the disagreements are and move forward. And this is
actually long form because then you get to understand how a person thinks about things, not just the subject at hand. But maybe other things, I could hear their speech patterns, right? Their thinking
patterns. And I think direct experience is real. Yeah. You know, cam hands pointed this out recently, and I'm not saying this to like Focus, you know, the positive energy on us, but it will in invariably do that or inevitably do that. Scuse me, which is he said, you know, it's kind of interesting that
All of the top podcasters like really fit, you know, like, all the people that are like really into their health, right? Like you, and, you know, there's their David's out there, like influencers, he was saying like there's, there's, there's a healthy health component. Well, fitness component, not always, but I think most of them. I think he may have said all of them. He may have said many of them. But you know, Kris Williams and, you know, Lex like yeah. There's there's a tendency to merge kind of intellectual discourse with physical and I think that's it. That's a unique.
The theme of podcasting also. Yeah just have certain let's just say what it is. Like a lot of the top podcast that's like a pretty consistent theme. For the female podcasters to Whitney works out this way podcast. Like there's a kind of merging of those things and I think that when it comes to the discussion about anything about health, it also is beneficial if people are engaging in healthy behaviors, right? If they're right, or if they tried things, like they're trying to be fit. I see Rhonda posting pictures of herself deadlifting, right? You know and like Peters talking about his workouts and
Physician is an MD, right? So I think it's not sufficient to just study something right to just look at the data and papers. I think it really helps if you're able to get in close contact with the things that, you know, you're hearing
about what also, it helps me to know whether or not you have any discipline. So there's people that think about a certain thing because it Comforts their own thoughts about their decisions that they've made, and there's certain rationales that people make they rationalize.
Wise certain aspects of their life and certain things that are going on society to sort of make up for the fact that they haven't done the work that they probably should have done in the first place. So when I see a guy that's built like Chris or Lex or someone who I know or yourself that I know stays very physically fit and takes care of their health. Then I have more respect for them because I go, okay, I have more respect for this person's opinion because this person is doing difficult things on a regular basis and confronting their own
Haitians their, whatever procrastination, discipline issues, and the physical ability to put in work, which requires mental strength. And for the longest time, for whatever strange reason, people have had this mutually exclusive notion that a person who is physically fit as probably stupid, and a person who doesn't care about their body and only concentrates on the mine for some reason that is
Is admired that this person has no ego at all and doesn't get with that. I think that person is a fool because you don't have as much energy to think, because your physical body that you have, you've let Decay to this terrible point where your postures down. Like, I've had some unfortunate conversations with older intellectuals that don't take care of themselves and you realize that it's important that they gotten lazy physically and they don't have the energy to engage. And so they sort of just sort of repeat.
Things that they've said over and over and over again. And when you ask them to think on the spot, they almost don't have the will to do it anymore. Yeah, you know. Well
there's Lux. Yeah, it does suck in, there's a direct correlation between this ability to continue moving your body and your intellectual ability. Yeah, I mean, you have to still go and learn and read and prior knowledge and try hard things. You just can't just work out, but I can think of a number of key examples that are historical the greatest neurobiologist of all times Supernatural levels of ability. Was a guy named Ramona? Kaha won. The Nobel Prize in 1906, he was the
One who first defined the synapse etcetera he carried an iron umbrella to work, he lifted weights Oliver Sacks, one of the greatest, a neurologist and writers of our time passed away in 2015, had a 600 pound, squat, okay? He's yeah. The state power is state by powerlifting record at one point. Just a beast of a guy who's also a neurologist and wrote. All these beautiful books about how the mind works, the man who mistook his wife for a hat. He was behind the movie Awakenings etc, etc, Don, Kennedy former president of Stanford,
Into his late 70s. And then after that had a hip replacement and then was doing other stuff. So Richard Axel is a Nobel prize from Columbia University. The first person to find ways to introduce genes to novel genes to cells. Played racquetball know, if he's still playing rack. Well, you know, I'll name one more. These are incredible. People like the guy who essentially defined the understanding of the visual system in neural plasticity, my scientific great-grandfather. There's David hubel and Torsten. Wiesel Torrance. And just turned something like 95 or something, maybe it's 93.
Three. He still runs and runs slowly but he still goes and he is mentally sharp. So, this is not an accident. This is not just a correlation. This is the anterior mid cingulate cortex in action and of course, cancer Baba. So, you know, a bullet can still take you out, but I'm assuming you make it into your 60s 70s. 80s movement movement movement is the way to stay mentally strong, and to continue to have the capacity to learn. I mean, just to kind of weave these two things, if we're talking about MDMA psilocybin or some other agent that
Is serotonin and dopamine. Or we're talking about movement, all were really talking about are ways to increase these neuromodulators like, dopamine, acetylcholine serotonin epinephrine and they create the opportunity for neuroplasticity. They don't create plasticity on their own, they create a milieu, that's very much like the young brain where it's like, okay, what's new here? This is why your adrenaline is such a powerful tool for plasticity. Probably I'm not going to suggest people. You smelling salts to try and do better on their exams there. Other ways to do better on their tests.
I probably will take another one. Okay,
tell you what, thinking about it. All right, get in there, sir. All right, takes
almost. Yeah. They now it's the right nostril. That's good. Because we alternated revered alter. Let me see if I
alternated, I don't remember which well. I mean,
the first it was left before. It's definitely right. Cool man, who
makes your eyes water a little bit but boy it doesn't shock your system. Wow. Why is little adrenaline? I could lift more. Why I told
myself I wasn't gonna cry on this pockets.
I cried on a podcast. Recently in mind we kept it in, but, like a. Now I'm crime of these are tears of related to the
smell. Yeah, this is tears just of chemicals. Rotting your brain. Are you supposed to not do that more than twice a day but okay, we've done it many times.
So it's just that this thing neuroplasticity like that. Does it really? That's from your sinuses.
I'm gonna, you have some skulls
are the sinuses run from you know, him through to that. That's why when you got a sinus infection or you, mmm clear your
yeah, yeah, yeah. So
but no.
No plasticity is the most impressive feature of the human brain. It can rewire itself but when you're a kid you rewire and response to a passive experience. Hmm, for better or worse, as an adult. You can rewire your brain but you have to create the milieu, the environment that the brain wants to rewire itself. So these neuromodulators like adrenaline or dopamine or serotonin, they need to be spiked and nicotine. What you're now taking, another one is we know comes in does many things in the brain and body but
Got that stuff, strong. Yeah. But it there's a brain area called nucleus basalis, which sits in the base of the brain and it can serve as a spotlight by releasing acetylcholine. On to what on to nicotinic, acetylcholine receptors in certain circuits and provide Focus. So that's what nicotine's doing unless you take so much of it every day. That those, your kind of Baseline levels of acetylcholine either drop or become kind of regulated to the point where you're not getting that spotlighting anymore, which is why people then are taking more.
More and more, but as are, you know, your former guests and my colleague dr. On Olympia said, the worst thing you can do, when you're in a trough of dopamine, is trying to boost dopamine again. You just got to wait for it to come back. So if people want nicotine to continue to work, they should use it. Sporadically or when they feel like it's not working anymore, take a break.
That's what McKenna has to say about cannabis McKenna who would Terence McKenna would freely. Admit that he had a problem with cannabis because he was like a daily cannabis user.
But he said the real way to take it. He said is to take a long time off a long time off so that your body is completely desensitized to it and then take as much as you can stand in like one dose. Like that's I mean, he was interested in it as a psychedelic. Yeah, you know, it wasn't, especially if you do that in edible form. It just, it is, it is a very, very potent psychedelic. But there is that concern and I think this is a very important thing to bring up
Up. It's not benign and certainly not to everybody. Nicotine marijuana. Oh, everybody has a different reaction to it. And some people have a terrible reaction to psychosis. Yes. And I don't understand it because I don't get it. It doesn't happen to me. But I also know that it's real and to deny it as a zealot and to say, oh, marijuana is just great. Everybody should be high like no, no, don't know, the everybody shouldn't eat peanuts either, you know, some people have a weird reaction to things and there's a
I mean, Alex Berenson wrote that book. Tell your tell your parents or tell your children, tell your children. It's all about that about that. There needs to be some recognition about. There's a certain percentage of people that have a tendency towards schizophrenia or maybe psychotic breaks and they can get triggered by high doses of cannabis. No, sure, no
question. So people that's happened to ya and I covered that in my solo episode on cannabis then this person this researcher from Canada, whose I dont think hes Pro or anti cannabis
Had differing views came on my podcast and then what's his name, Matt Hill. And and I he's a respected researcher in this area. And I thought his stance was was very, very nuanced. And then after he came on the podcast other people not Berenson necessarily. Although I haven't checked my DMs, that closely contacted. Me said no, I have counters to that guy which just told me everything I already know which is that science is a field with people with differing opinions, right? And it sounds good, which is great. I mean, you don't have a field until you have differing opinions.
You don't want to be the person working, the only person working on something right, you want that it's something that you know you can tell I get really impassioned. Smelling salts are know about this because somehow in the media version of is cannabis, good is cannabis bad and honestly the political aspects to it like I wasn't tracking the fact that cannabis was just about to be approved for more more legalization right about the time that clip got you know Amplified but I wasn't saying it should or shouldn't. I'm just giving you the information same as I did.
For alcohol, right? We I would love to put this to rest once and for all every couple of weeks or months you're going to see media Outlets say some drinking is good for you. Others will say some drinking. Any drink is bad for you. Here's the deal. Zero is better than any a little bit. It's probably fine. Especially if you do other things to offset the Sleep loss in microbiome stuff. If you're going to drink, probably should be doing other healthy behaviors. Anyway, no one saying it's terrible. I'll have a drink everyone. So I'm not an alcoholic. If you're not if you're a non-alcoholic adult one or two. I
Like a good white tequila with soda and lime so good. But, you know, I don't really like alcohol enough to be able to comment past that, but and I haven't had a drink in years but the reality is that one study after another saying moderate drinking is good for, you know, drinking's better. If you cancerous this is never going to stop. It's a field. Now, we have enough data, people can make their decision right, right? Everyone knows sleep is important. There's no field to be had except to how to figure out to get
Sleep better in my opinion. Okay. Sleep deprivations bad, but you're not going to get to Mentor died from a couple bad night's sleep. That's also true. So it's almost like the way things have split politically has become the way that health information has split and I'm fighting tooth and nail and I know you are and other people are as well to try and continue to shine light on the field that is psychedelics the field that includes cannabis the field that includes things like weight loss, and those epic. But also exercise and all the other good. Yeah. And somehow and maybe you can tell
Because I'm new to them or to the media thing, newer than you certainly for some reason people don't like that. It's like, it's like the brain needs like a black and white thing. It's like a, they can't seem to just deal with the fact that like, look, you'll find evidence for and evidence against, you just got to make it the best decision for you.
Well, there's also people that write articles with a specific narrative because they're gamifying the social media, algorithms there gamifying clickbait. So it's business. Gamifying clickbait is
Real mean that's a right unfortunately. One of the things that happen to journalism is people stop buying newspapers and when people stop buying newspapers, the only way someone can you can get someone to go to your website and click on a link. So you have to have some sort of inflammatory headline, something that excites you something angers, you something. Like, I give you some information. Some secret information that wasn't available for all, let me click on that, I didn't know
that, but science to me is about facts and I totally agree. I just, you know, I think that Rick Rubin. I seem to eat seems to come to mind a lot to me, too.
But you know, he once said to me, we're in discussion, I discovered a bunch of lies in somebody's life and I was like, oh my God and he just said, very calmly said look, it's all lies. I'm like, what do you mean? I my God, that's the problem. I'm realizing, it's all lies and he said, listen, it's all lies Back To Nature. That's the only truth and I'm like, yeah, that's why I became a scientist and then he said, oh wait and professional wrestling because everyone knows that two made up.
So, it's real. And I actually went to the aw, with Rick. It was wild. And I believe that shit. Well, they're jumping around on in the ring and they'll stop, every once in a while and look and go. Eh, Rick Rubin. Like, it's wild. Like, she's that much of a fixture. It's so great. He's there with his red light with his red lens glasses. And I think he does the sunlight. He's gotten much healthier. He looks great, he takes really great care of himself, but I think he's right. I think Nature has a truth that has an owner to it signs. His job is to try and unveil that truth to the best of our abilities. But wrestling admittedly.
Everyone agrees, it's made up. So at least we agree on that. Whereas I think so much of what we've been talking about today is like the media. Like, at what point do we realize there are portions that are true. There are portions that are made
up, but they're making themselves Obsolete. And this is what I believe. I believe that human beings should be able to differ on opinions, but I should know that you're being honest you telling the truth. So as soon as you write something that I know is biased and twisted and you've distorted things and taking things out of context, well, I know that you're not
In the truth game. So your opinions nonsense, whatever you say is horseshit. I want to talk to someone that's trying to figure out what's right? And what's wrong? Not, someone is trying to win and everybody's trying to win. This is a real problem. It's a real problems. When the discussion they attach, whatever the art whatever the discussion is, whether it's weightlifting is more important than cardio or you should be a vegan versus, you should be a carnivore. They attach, whatever this argument is to their own sense of self-worth and it's very important
I'm the counter your arguments and win this little chess match, and that's what it is. They're playing a little game. I play games, so I don't like playing games when I talk to people. I like playing pool. I liked it. The game is like making people laugh. The game is Jiu-Jitsu. How do I get your back? Like these are games. I like I like games so when I communicate I don't like games but I recognize that especially earlier in my life before I started recognizing patterns in podcast. Like what don't I
I like when people are, too, I don't like when someone's bias, I don't like, when someone is talking over people, I don't like what someone says, misrepresenting someone's words or something. Someone's trying to win rather than considering what the other person's saying. So when someone's considering what the other person's saying and then you get this beautiful, sort of sharing of ideas without ego. And the real problem is the ego, the ego, getting attached to winning a conversation and being correct. Whoo. Yeah, well, yeah, and they get in this fucking
Friends. You were, they can't even communicate anymore and they're completely attached and married to their ideas. The best thing, the best advice, I can give people in. This has don't be attached to your ideas, they're just ideas. Examine why? You believe them. There's many times in my life where someone is hit me with some facts. And I thought about my whole, you know why I believe that this is why. Because I thought this and then I was always saying, well, if you believe that, then this has to be untrue. And I don't want to say that,
So I so I have attached myself to this thing and now I've connected my eat and when I'm engaging with someone, I'm not just engaging in this pure, intellectual sharing of ideas and a discussion of Merit, discussion of Merit. I'm now in a win-lose situation, I'm trying to win and I could win by deception and you see people do that all the time and it's so gross when you catch people doing that on a podcast, when you realize that you're not even considering these other possibilities because
You're dismissing them without any consideration because you just want to achieve a goal of Victory, just want to play Checkmate and that's all they're doing. And that's that's why the media is going to make themselves obsolete because that's not happening in podcast. In the best podcast, whether it's Chris Williamson, whether it's Lex frieden, the best podcast are a true conversation. And I want to know why you think the way you think, and when I get that in my head, I can consider it and then I could say, well, this is why I don't think that's true because I think this way this is my
A perspective. I might be wrong. I might be right, who knows what? But this is just how I feel it is. When you can do that and learn how to do that, and took me a while to learn how to do that. It makes all conversations better, it makes all friendships better. Like you get to really understand why a person that like maybe you and a buddy, had a disagreement about something. You said well what did you think? I thought you were going to do that. Like I never said I was going to do that. Why would I do that? Like I thought you were going to do that but we didn't talk about that. Did we know so you're mad at
Saying that you didn't even talk to me about. I can you thought that I should have just known? Like, come on, man. That's crazy. Like you usually get tributing, all these negative things to a person and then you can work things out. You could talk about things and you could if the long as the person is not bullshitting you. As soon as you got people in your life that are bullshitting you, it's like, oh, you're not even having real conversations. You're playing a stupid game of tic-tac-toe, all day long with your friends, when your friends can open up to you and this is one of the reasons why people like sharing embarrassing information with friends because I know
Can trust you. I can tell you the stupid fucking thing that I did and you go, oh my God, I did that to be like ah and then, you know, but when a person goes well I would never fuck, could do that or to figure that out long time ago I would have done it that way like, oh well that guy's dick. You know, like he's not we're not he's not willing to be vulnerable with me because he always wants to be like socially a step up. He wants his status to be in a position of this is the guy that doesn't make those mistakes,
which is crazy. That's crazy, especially among friends. I've always been blessed that there's been very little if any hierarchy of my friends we knew who was behind
Certain things than others, you know,
and this should never be, we're just human beings. There are people that are way better at certain things that I am that. I'm friends with. And that's how it should be this people that I'm friends with that are way smarter than me, you included and I'm
with so I'm not smart. It's just different form of intelligence. I was and I'm not just saying that you know with each passing year and I've looked forward to like approaching 50 because I'm like now I can say things like with each passing year or by this. Yeah. But I also realized the other day, I lived a
Ang period of my life where I didn't really have a sense of the fact I would die. I'd watch the Steve Jobs commencement speech at Stanford, we talk of 2005 where he talks about this notion that we're going to die is so critical and I couldn't get in touch with it recently. I'm like, oh, like times going to come up every time I go down for a meditation. I do this like non sleep deep, rest Yoga Nidra. Imagine it like go to Long, exhale and like someday. It's going to just be last exhale and I'm I'm not looking forward to dying. Lord knows I'm not looking forward to dying but I
I'm like, this is great. It's very freeing because and I had this realization the other day in a meditation. No psychedelics involved in this one and I was like, I can continue to just be curious and explore and like the, I think it's that ego, Detachment a little slice of that like does like, this is bad, this is good. I'm learning from this, this was good. This was hard. I learned a lot from that. I learned what I needed to change from that and just be moving forward. It's this removing, this thing of like that, like you said, like this game all day.
Long of like not that I was in that mode or I didn't think I was but this need to win, right? It's sort of like being an Explorer. I'm a I'm a brain Explorer. I've been a bring explore for a long time. I love biology, love animals, like I'm an Explorer and I think the definition of curiosity to me is that you're not attached to the outcome, right? You just want to know what's real,
right? But too many people are attached to the outcome and I think that's a tremendous trap and that's why I wanted to talk about it because it's something that I had to learn because I was always attached to winning an argument if I got it.
A discussion and disagreement with someone, I was always attached to being the one who was
correct when did that fall away for you and what you're about 57. All right. So yeah,
um, it's, you know, I've gotten way better at it over time I don't, I could, I wouldn't want to like sit and figure out when I figured it out, but I figured steps of it out along the way. You know, I remember being 21 and watching a comedian go onstage and I wanted him to bomb.
And I realized that was a terrible weakness and I was embarrassed that I had that feeling
so interesting. I will say, we know how we feel about people when we see them succeed. Because I think there's this natural reflex like when you hear like that, I like that really shitty person that you knew been school. Like they got pancreatic cancer. Everyone just goes like that sucks. That sucks. But when you hear a, you know, that person that used to really dislike or that you had friction within, like, they just, like IPO, like they're doing great, you know, you know, immediately
I like that person or not, we write because of your happy for them. Presumably you like them right? Yeah, yeah. Rarely. Is it neutral either? I mean I can't think of anyone that I'm like, don't want to see succeed except maybe a few individuals, I think are actually evil, but those are extremely rare. But I think it sounds like you're also a competitive person. I didn't do a lot of competitive Sports. I'm very curious about this, like I'm competitive with myself, but like you did combat
sport. Yeah, right. I did
skateboarding. Play a little soccer. Did some swimming running weightlifting, you know, like you like you, your
Rain was weaned in fighting a lot of the
time. Well it was also how I developed as a child. I mean, I went from all my puberty years competing so that like from 15 on, that's literally what I did. All day
long. Your goal is to knock the other guy out.
Yeah. It's a fucked-up way to develop your mind. If you do develop like this in saying kind of hyper competitive because it's so the consequences are so grave. You know, the I would say about MMA that it's high level problem solving with dire physical
x's. And that's really what it is. It's high-level problem solving, your you're literally doing combat hand-to-hand combat with your body with someone who's an expert at it, which is so crazy. Like so you're fighting a black belt is so crazy. The, this is a person who's dedicated their life to kicking people into the shadow realm and you're deciding to try to kick them first before the kick you, this is just nuts. It's a Nutty way to live but the negative aspects of it. Are you develop this hyper-competitiveness? Because your
Also developing at an accelerated rate when you're a teenager. All right, so, when you're, when I was a teenager, I had no bills, I had no problems. I lived at home, I didn't have any real, like, an adult type stress, you know, bills. A family to feed dealing with the community work problems. I had nothing. So my entire Focus was just on this one thing, martial arts and you can get way better when you're a kid. It's like I saw this neuroplasticity.
There's until
25. Your brain is a plasticity machine. Yeah, there's a lot there to map, according to your experience. I mean, like, Larry come into the world babies flopping, like a, you know, like little bug move move, move move neuronal connections are being removed by the thousands, tens of thousands by the day. So that you get fine-tuned movement, it's like you're a plasticity machine. And then, your thinking and your Notions about about, boys and girls and teachers and parents and good things, and bad things. And what that means and what that means and who's a hero and who's a Villain. Like the brain is just
Placing things into boxes and symbols. It's like it's an unbelievable phenomenon and it's happening when you're a teenager then you throw hormones into the mix. People often don't talk about this. Then you add hormones. And now you're adding the drive that is hormones related to like really hard wired. Evolutionarily selected things like reproduction fighting, right? We all have brain circuits for fighting. There's a brain area, David Anderson's laboratory, Caltech has studied this. I think we talked about before you stimulate this little region of the ventromedial hypothalamus.
Both Alamos, the specific neurons and the animals will mate amount or they'll females were going to lure doors, lordosis. They'll arch their back to expose their genitals, you stimulate other neurons in that exact same area ventromedial hypothalamus. You know, what happens? They go into a rage. They want to rip apart the other animal, their videos of this online. Mmm, you can put the mouse in there, with a plastic glove filled with air stimulate these neurons and the animal will just attack that thing.
Stop the stimulation and they don't just
slap a little robots. Our
brains have these circuits as young said. We have all things inside of us. The extent to which we learn to suppress, or exacerbate, depends on experience, its nature and nurture. But we come into this world, hardwired with the capacity for most any of these behaviors to emerge your daughter. Fortunately, got very good at drawing, right. That probably is handed off through some slight genetic bias handed on through you and your partner your wife too
Create a slight bias towards looking at the world, in a particular way, and artistic sense of something about Aesthetics and pay attention to curved Corners vs. Square corners. Whatever it is. But what we do feeds back on that circuit. So if you draw more, you get better at drawing, this is, this is the that's a big thing. This is the nature all day
long and she's doing doing it. She was really little but also like going back to Floyd Mayweather. Floyd Mayweather started boxing when he was a little kid and there's a thing about striking and it's not a hard fast.
Because there's some freaks out there, some athletic freaks. And there's some people that come from other sports, that have incredible speed and dexterity and an understanding of their body that allows them to pick up striking better than other. But there's something about people that learn when they're young, that are always better than everybody. No matter how good you are. There's certain guys like Anderson Silva, or there's certain Fighters that learn at a young age and you just can't fuck with them if they're just too
good. There nervous system was shaped
Yeah. In in fighting the same way Tiger Woods is a nervous system which faced
golfing. That's why when Floyd sees those punches coming, he knows all he has to do is this and it's just gonna just barely touch his chin and then he fires back. Like he knows he's been in those patterns for his whole life and his body evolved. It literally developed in those patterns.
This is why when people say, like, what should I do? I always think, like, I don't know what people should do and I, you know, I took a formal education path, eventually, but if we look back to the
Things that really delighted us and that we naturally oriented towards When We Were Young, there's often information there for me was animals and fish tanks in biology. I want to understand things, right? And parse things through an understanding of some structure because the world just that's what it pulled out of me. My dad's a scientist, so it's probably some genetic thing and probably some some, you know, nurture stuff as well. I went up to I'm a big track and field fan and went up to the Olympic track and field. Trials, in Eugene Oregon, I love the town of Eugene. I go to Every trials I can for the last cash for Olympic trials.
It's and earlier that summer, I ran into a guy named Cole Hawker. This is shorter guy 4Runner. He runs the 1500, so it's about a mile, right? And he took the first position there. So you got, you went off to Paris and he came from. It's an amazing race. If you didn't watch the 1500 race at this year's Paris Olympics, it's an amazing. If you need motive, anyone needs motivation. You should get it from the inside as my belief, but if you need to look outside which we all occasionally, do check out this race Cole comes from like fourth or fifth position against the world record holder. He's
He doesn't have the stride that these other guys have, and they box him in, and he goes out and around and beat them all. Takes the boat. It's one of these like Prefontaine moments right now. Here's what's crazy and relates to what you're saying. He's posting on Instagram afterwards. I happen to know him a little bit Cam and I wouldn't watch the trials together which is a real pleasure and cams like a legend these Olympic gold medal. Winners were coming up to him running. We were we got great seats right? And I give to him as he because I'm very grateful to Kim for to okay. Here's Cole right calls at USA in fifth position.
Mission. All right, don't know where this isn't. There's a fairly long race. So,
so there he is going on the outside.
No. So you might want to just go a little further because this is a lot to see the guy with the man bun because now he's the man, he's the man with the man, but he's, but he's man with it with a capital M. Ay, n, I'll tell you, you'll see super nice guy, too. So, this guy from Norway and grits, and he, and his brothers have like a reality TV show. They're like famous over there. He's world record for will also great Runner, but cocky, he's like talking a lot before it. So check this out.
So, I don't know how far along we have to go before.
Damn, they're running fast, walk for a mile that's so crazy that they could run it. That's
pieces, right? Final lap. So watch this. So so he breaks from fifth position after they box him in to win. Wow, I don't know if you caught that but basically there he's fifth position. So he took it at the end and takes it off the end against the world record holder. Now, here's where it gets even, here we go. So it's goodbye. He was his way back there. Yes, he's way back and then they box him in later. And he wins.
How would you mean by boxes? So you'll see them. So, we'll see what happens.
And so
seems like he's going on the outside now, right? So he wants, he knows, he's got a great kick.
So it's like calculating when to go 100%.
So ingebrigtsen went out really fast in this race fast paced so now he's trying to come around. Right, so now watch this. So
So now he's trying to, this is the Box in, you'll see he's trying to take the inside track
and these two guys don't want them. Right?
Exactly. He actually touches anger Britain. He actually touches him on his back hip with the outside of his arm as if they're just plain. Oh there it is. There it is. He sees if there's space in your prisons, not going to let him in. And so he goes you know what how about this instead? How about I come out? He doesn't sorry. He stayed inside track and he breaks through.
So it's just like they try to keep you from the oh yeah, kind of fit. Two people in the
They try to keep your inbox, I'm in a box human. So here's what's Wild. So afterwards is a bunch of posting on Instagram. Then they show a picture of coal Hawker. When he's like eight years old holding a metal where he was running the 1500 and he's doing like four minutes and change. That's a mile which is a Miler is a kid running for in some change as a little kid that's crazy. This brings it back to your point which is like nowadays. We're seeing the selection of people who are probably have a genetic biased.
Toward something a love of it like running right plus immense amounts of experience and their nervous system, like he was shaped miling, rats, a nervous system that Miles. I'll tell you can also walk and talk and eat because I met him, but that's a nervous system. That was shaped around running the 1500 right. So, when you see it at the, like the top, top top 1%, it's so different than like my field where you can't go to graduate school to get a training in Neuroscience until you're in your 20s, right? Sheriff.
Not so you can't go to school for this. And so I think when people look at what they naturally oriented to when they were young and they stayed with that, that's the thing that you had a may be a genetic. Probably genetic leaning toward
do you think that would be maybe a shift today? Because there's so much more material that's available to young people. Like if somebody has an interest in science,
absolutely science today. Absolutely I think because of the online learning platforms. I think of because of I even like the sport that I grew up
Unfortunately wasn't very good at or maybe. Fortunately, who knows, I was skateboarding, right? So many of my friends went on to write start companies, became pro skateboarders, a lot of them didn't but I didn't have a propensity for it. Kept getting hurt, broke my foot three times like so frustrated was unbelievable. So I went in a different direction when in the science Direction turned out to be my thing but now the little kit literally little kids boys and girls like this girl, recent Nelson, she skates with power on vert not like a little kid going on. She's got power and
And guys, like Tony Hawk or like, whoa, It's because they have all this exposure to 900s and tricks, and ramps, and there's just way more people feeding the pool of potential, professional skateboarders, right? So when you look at the Olympics or the X Games, now you're getting a much greater selection of the huge pool, bigger sample, size feeding into it. You're getting the genetic gifts, her mom travels with her everywhere. She dedicates near 100% of her time to this, so it's a lot of what you were saying, like, we're selecting earlier.
We're pulling from a larger pool, so you're going to get that genetic freaks. The pole vaulter guy keeps winning world records or beating his own world record. I saw him get the at the world that Eugene last about two years ago, broke the world record, he keeps beating the world record. This guy's been pole vaulting, his whole
life, it's been well, kid.
So the earlier you get them, the more the nervous system can can be
shaped. Well, this is a problem that I see in Combat Sports because in Combat Sports. You have guys who have a championship mentality, like, they could have been a champion.
They didn't start early enough and even though they have this extraordinary mind. So do the people that started when they were for like this idea that you're tough for your so you're the only one that stuff. That's an egocentric idea that a lot of men have and it's a very bizarre conversation to have with these men. I don't think he's tough I think if the going get something like the you never going to find out the going gets tough because going to fuck you up. Like you said, I've been going to be hard for him. You don't even understand what you're saying. Like just but there's the mind, the ego plays this like cruel trick on you. That doesn't allow
Now you to accurately assess your abilities. So you have this bizarre notion that you are exceptional for no reason whatsoever and there's a lot of men have that a lot of men have that bizarre thing. The problem with if you have an incredible drive and incredible discipline but you didn't start striking into your 26,
If you have a Thai boxing fight against like a guy, like there's a guy right now is one of the best of worlds name is Tai Wan chai and he has this insane left. Kick his, he's like so left, kick dominant. Like most of his game is his left kick, but it's so goddamn good. He just slams, it into guy's arm slams into the guys legs, and he has his snake, like, movement of his ability to just slide out of the way, and then counter, and then slam you with a hard left, low kick. He's terrifying.
And I don't care how tough you are. You, you don't have that ability and you probably are never going to get there. Like the margins, the difference is of tenths of a second. Hundreds of a second here and there, he's so good. You're not going to catch him. So even if you're the baddest fucking dude, in the world, in your mind, this is tolerant chai. Let me hear some of this, but go for the beginning, go to the beginning. So you can hear the volume of him hitting the pads. This is not not what
We're looking for exactly. This is like a highlight reel. Yeah but it's fine. The go to the beginning where he hits the pads. So it's just good is going to music over it. Okay, it's just music over. This guy is fucking nasty but he's all left kick like it's like 80% of his game, man. It's crazy. How much of his game? I mean, he'd do everything. The guy does everything, but his left kick is so fucking powerful that every time it hits you. Your power bar goes down. If he hits your arms, if he hits your body is
Like all left, kick bang, bang, bang, and it's so smooth. He's so good bad, he's so good. So if you're a guy and you're some badass, Navy SEAL, dude, and you're 30 years old, and you make it to the Muay Thai gym and you decide, hey, I'm only 30, I'm going to fight Pro, you know, enough time. There's not enough time in the world for you to get to where he's got and he's going to get better quicker.
Yeah. That guy's brain has a circuit. I'm willing to wage my entire career on this. That is a left kick. Yeah. Circuit like his
Is it the same way that, you know, a tool like a like a bow is designed for a specific thing that circuit is like left, kick
Leslie, how to saying that, don't fear man, who knows 10,000 kicks fear man, who's practiced, one kick 10,000 times? That's the there's a thing about a guy who's got this one thing that's something like Ryan Garcia has this nasty left hook. It's cool. Super fun. Yeah, it's a crazy left hook, it's so goddamn good. It's so much better than most people's.
Everybody who fights him doesn't understand what he can do until he doesn't exact
whips fast
powerful blasts, powerful, distance management angles that it comes from. It comes up, it comes around it. It just hits you faster than, you know, it's supposed to get there. It's so much quicker and as so much pop on it. It's so dangerous and everything. He fought Devin Haney who is one of the best pure boxers in this board. He's so good but he just didn't have
Have the understanding yet that a guy can whip that left hook so fast and catch him in fuck him up in these weird
angles. It's a I don't want to watch this dude.
Flatbush are here, there's this liver shot. That's it melted. He melts a lot of guys that liver shot. The see, if you could just see, give me a highlight of Ryan, Garcia's Knockouts. She's got one of the, I'm sure there's some of those online but it's all left hook. Well, then he's got a right hand. What?
So left hook dominant and it's so much better than most weapons. It's got a nasty left jab to but it's just, he's got distant distance management and timing and just the ability to just uncork a shot like right there. Whoo-hoo fadeaway left. I'm
it. So, it's just well, he's speed is just
different than other guys. So you don't know that he can go get that my goodness. Even look is a fadeaway left hook. It's so perfect. And when he connects everybody goes night-night is really
Extraordinary. And it's extraordinary because it's that one weapon. That's so good. And when he fought Devin Haney was like, Devon. He's like, he's only a left hook. But whatever that's like saying Tha and she only has a left kick, it's so
good. You got only left hook that always that
wins a left hook, that's so much better than everybody else's. He's got a right hand to but that left hook is just freakish, it's freakish pink right there.
So so if we look at this, through the lens of nervous systems, you know, I know that there have been conversations
You've had here and elsewhere like would crocodile vs a grill at these kind of the kind of crazy things. We don't need to reignite that but I think when we're at the discussion around true Peak Performance, like somebody grew up running. Yeah. Mi. Right. Who grew up throwing left hooks, who grass slipping punches, right? Yes, they're both Homo sapiens, they're both humans. But you're talking about two different animals. When you talk about the person that got into in their 20s and 30s versus the person that comes is started off young, you're talking about
Out to different nervous system. Yes. If we were to look at their brains under magnetic resonance imaging, you see a lot of things that are similar, the breathing centers, the stuff that controls the heart rate, everything is but mostly in the same place, but I'd be willing to bet. Everything that you look at. Ryan, Garcia's brainy, go, that left hook. If you were able to throw the left hook in the thing, see it light up. The be, like, wow, either more efficient, more, maybe more space allocated to. It may be less space. But, you know, the speed of transmission is just faster. You're talking about a different nervous system, which is just a different
Way of saying a different person, but it's more meaningful. In my view because we are talking about is cars with an extra extra cylinders. You're taught you're talking about a race between two different Vehicles. Yeah. And so I think if somebody is very educated in the fight game or is educated in in any domain, they're able to see that difference in give people really good advice whereas what the person themselves they can't see that. It's like when we looked the same he trains I trained, I train harder. I'm driven. It's like no, right, not the same. And I think that's why to me something.
Like a coal Hawker win over world record. Holder is in prep, as is the other stuff we were just watching incredibly impressive because you say he's in fifth position and you know, he's got a shorter stride and the other guys got all this. World record stuff under his belt and he's done great as well. I think he won. He won the 5,000 in your Britain, won the 5,000 but Colts just like
Pulls something out like they're very close in terms of their abilities, their the same roughly, the same species, right, you know, right in the context that we're talking about and then somehow through sheer will is able to out kick him. Sure we'll numbers or there's a lot of things going on. Like, what kind of conditioning he went through as opposed to the other guy. Like, what Edge? He got. And he's from Kentucky, I've never been to. I've been a lawyer evil once, but someone told me, I don't know if this is true or not, but they're more. If you looked at the number of medals from come from people from Kentucky,
Almost like in a complete country, really don't know what's going on and it was a great program. There's no not just in track and field like a cross. This summer olympics. If you look at the number of like American versus Chinese Metals, it's like tears out with you. Go. Like, Kentucky was a pretty good quote/unquote
country. Well, Moses Muhammad Ali from Louisville.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's something about people from Kentucky, are doing very well in the in the,
how are they in Neuroscience?
I have a friend who just retired as chair of the of the neurology department is actually neuroanatomy there. My friend Bill guy do that.
University of
Louisville. Is it an unfortunate though that like Kentucky's not associated with intellectual prowess? Not so much, but it's a great
Department. That's a great Department Department there. I'm sure one of the great things about being a scientist was you know, my lab now is run a much smaller scale and you know, but for years I just traveled the country. These places I would never think to go to, right? I had a great, Argentine meal in Louisville. I went to in St. Louis.
One of the best meals in my life. I don't think I'd ever go to st. Louis, but I was visiting wash you, you know, and then and then there are certain cities that you hear terrible things about and they're true. One of the greatest, not the
players in the history of the world came from Paducah Kentucky. Okay guys, name is Buddy, Hall The Rifleman like to this day, one of the all-time greats,
and Great Courses.
Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Of course, evil horse races. Yeah, great
horses. Like, I've been learning more about horses because it's like, dog, selection and horse selection. Is that? I mean, the, the genetic breeding in the selection of horses for particular traits, like this whole warm blood thing.
I don't know much about it, not enough to comment on it, but these people been around horses, their whole lives, this done horse is worth millions of dollars, and they know that that fault. That's the one that and they put tons of money on it. Like they have this unconscious genius based on all this life experience,
right? So, it's almost like they're selecting the same way like someone, if you wanted to build a Floyd Mayweather, you would select, you know, great father was a great boxer, uncle's great boxer, boxing to the family starts up, Young's got great genetics, the whole deal
where the Williams sisters like that.
The King James movie your Woods. Yeah, we're Tiger Woods. Yeah. We're the or the kids that I grew up with skateboarding like there's this kid you know guy Mariano like grip wouldn't you? I know when he was a little kid he would waddle the board. Felt like look bigger than him and now grown up. He he's so good. He's kind of in my generation so he's kind of like in the late 40s. Think he's still just kills because, you know,
developed his development develop he grew up with it,
went through all the trials and tribulations and this has been public, you know, get, you know, had his issues and got sober.
Came back to skateboarding and just skate board of the year for Thrasher, which is a huge deal. You just see like the young Danny Way Tony Hawk grew up skateboarding. His body in the nervous, system is skateboarding. Yeah. And I love this aspect to people in sport because we see it but it's, you know, I think I remember listening to like hearing conversations like this and thinking. Yeah, but like if you're not into that, where is it? And this is where panics just keep thinking about all the time, but forgive me, Rick is always said the key to being really great at something.
It's to just be you and I'm like that sounds like about his mystical wrapped in a riddle as that's
I can hear it in his voice when he said it. But what he's
saying is what he's saying and I finally got it. It's like what are the things that really pull that energy out of you? What did that when you were young? And if you're fortunate enough to get into something young, that's a beautiful thing. And, you know, Rick's superpower is his ability to get close to things. People music Etc, and feel it. He can feel that thing and he encourages them to
do more of that thing, as opposed to the thing, they think they should do. Mmm. And then what's also remarkable about him as he's able to disengage and just be recognized, like, he has this, like empathy, but it doesn't like take him over, right? So, while the guy that grew up in music and did all the things he did for music, you know, he's never had a sip of alcohol or done a drug. How many people who hang around musicians? I know pull that off.
Well, he's just a fascinating guy, period. But I think what he's locked onto is getting out of your own way and there's a lot of self chatter that comes in whenever you're creating something.
Your instead of engaging with the idea you're thinking about, how can I make this better for me? What would people like more? What would get a better response and you lose the Magic. The Magic is in the individual
thought 100% And this is all right, so I've been spending, I go over there to spend time with him, he's the u.s. right now and we it was the weirdest visit ever. I go over to visit Rick and we'd sweet red water in the morning. We
Listen to this podcast, a history of 100 songs, hundred rock and roll songs by Andrew hickey. It's sort of like you burden, Lab podcast, but rock and roll. Like, super nerdy long, like drawn out there. Few podcasts like that, like Founders podcast. I love that one - like super nerdy, right about a given topic. So we do that and then we were just like sit around and I'm like, what are you? And he's like, let's just like sit, we just sit with eyes closed and I was like, alright, we have lunch and then he was like letter worry, cuz just sit. And then at one point, I'm like Rick, what are we doing?
And he's like, he's like, well, when you keep your body still and your mind is really active, Amazing Ideas come forward. And I've and that's when I was like, oh my goodness because it my first guest on my podcast was a guy named Karl deisseroth. He's the world's best bioengineer. He's a psychiatrist, he raised five kids. He's a Phenom he'll probably win a Nobel Prize and he told me his practice of coming up with ideas is after his kids are asleep at night sits down and he keeps his body completely still and he forces himself to think in complete sentences. Keep
His mind, Super Active and I was like, Wow. And it turns out that if you look historically a number of scientists have talked about this a number of creatives, have talked about this and then it, I don't have any studies to support this but then I realized. What is the state of our brain or time when the brain is very active in our body is still, and our mind is coming up with all sorts of ideas, its rapid eye movement, sleep were paralyzed during rapid eye movement, sleep. We have sleep, 80, Nia, and everybody knows based on dream, studies and studies of creativity that during
Rapid eye movement. Sleep is two things happen. There's a removal of some of the emotional load of previous day's experience is why which is why rapid eye movement sleep is so critical for emotion regulation afterwards, and for the regulating depression and things like that. But also we come up with new configurations and so Karl deisseroth. Einstein, there are reports of this of him walking and then closing his eyes and stopping and describing his mind moving forward. While his body was still very kind of subjective. Rick has this practice
Mmm, and I thought to myself, like, wow, so I started trying to do a sort of meditation where I forced myself to be very bodily, still with my mind very active. I can't, you know, started this kind of interesting in light of creativity, but the other thing and this goes to what you were saying before, you know, Rick came up through punk, rock, punk, rock and Hip-Hop right now. I love punk rock music. Grew up on it that era and the 80s. Punk rock in New York is amazing. Like but the whole thing like Beastie Boys, he was close with the Ramones Joe Strummer, all this and then hip-hop.
What he understands and I can't speak for him but he understands that there's this energy in an early field. Let's say of Music where they're not thinking about making money doing it. Like NWA, those guys were just being themselves when they were making music, right? I watched that movie on the defiant ones with About Dre and I think it's Jimmy Iovine about Beats but it's really about the energy of him early hip hop and then they talk about Eminem and a bunch of other things. Are you watch?
Rick, and I at night, we'd watch Ramones documentaries or Clash documentaries and it's like, it's the energy of something that's new where people are just being themselves. And they're not thing about making a ton of money on a record. A really great producer comes in and captures that energy and rolls it forward. And usually, what ends up happening is, then the general public falls in love with it and then a bunch of things happen to those people and then whatever dysfunction exist in their world gets Amplified. And then we hear about it. This is kind of a consistent theme over and over but it's like and then
The things that came up when I was visiting Rick because I was like, you know, I feel like like I came up Through Skateboarding and punk, rock music. I'm not a musician that incredible energy. I don't know much about hip-hop. I was like science had that when I first got into Neuroscience, like no one talked about Neuroscience didn't even have a name. We're just like brain explorers cutting up brains figuring out what to do, trying to figure out what these structures did and all this stuff and then podcasting. It's like I really feel like the podcasters at least some of us, right. It's like it's like punk rock. It's like hip-hop because we're not thinking about. I wasn't didn't sit down and like
My podcast, right? I'm gonna start the cooperman lab Pockets. I was like, I've just got all this stuff in me that I want to tell people because I think it's super cool. And a lot of it I think might also be really useful to them, right? And you're just being used when Rick or Lexus just being Lex and it worked, Chris Williams and is just being Chris Williams. And her Whitney Cummings is just being Whitney Cummings. So when when a podcast works I think it's because you're just being you and it seems so obvious. It's kind of almost trite, but Rick is like exactly. And the biggest mistake is to take the feedback the comments.
Whatever the hit piece of whatever interchange who you are right now, there is sometimes useful information that comes back to us. In ways we could do better in life and certainly I am doing that but the point is at its Essence. It's like the things that thing that makes podcasting beautiful to me is that, I think we're right now, thanks in large part to you and some of the other early early, you know, entrance guys. Guys that paved the way is that it's it's a real thing. It's a real discussion like I was just glad we didn't talk.
About we're going to talk about Ryan Moore, whereas when you go out there and use and you see these like highly overproduced or like media and fused podcast, like, it's not like real, right? It's not real. It's like got an angle, they have a story. They want to
tell it's not independent anymore, I can't
produce right. And let's be real honest, if you look, you are consistently. This podcast is consistently miles and miles ahead of everybody else in terms of the amount of consumption of it, why? Because it's a place where people immediately and consistently go.
It's like, Joe's just being Joe is just like a real thing and I say real thing, this is what Rick means. Like, people just being themselves which like your loves the things that bother you. They like. And so I think that podcasting to me, it's like skateboarding. It's like punk rock. It's like hip-hop. It's like a sport. It's like an art. Like, if you watch the movie one of my favorite movies, the boss Jia movie, right? With Benicio, del Toro, and Dennis Hopper, and Christopher Walker and David Bowie. Like why was he so amazing? Is because Jean Michel?
Bosco was just being himself until the fame got to him in article. Got written about how he was, you know, warhol's lap dog. They called him, or something like that and you can see I'm obsessing about it. And there's this amazing riff. I, some if people haven't seen it, they should just look up on YouTube. Like, how long does it take to get famous from the movie Basquiat and it's Benicio del Toro, who plays the young Vincent Gallo telling him. Here's what happens when you get famous and it's an amazing clip because it explains the Ark of Fame and
Will becoming famous for being themselves and then doing the things that they think they should do to stay popular and it destroys the whole thing. And so Rick's message is like, Rick's Talent is to like feel real energy. He can tell what's real and what's fake. That's why he likes wrestling. He knows it's fake, right? And then feel that and encourage somebody to do more of that less of other stuff. He's a creativity Guru. He's a creativity. Go than step back and but the message he just has keeps saying and
Of our conversations and with, I'm just saying like yeah man, just continue to be you. You curious Adventure whatever makes Andrew Andrew. I know what those things are. It's not about me. This is really about. Hopefully if like people hear it like Rick is saying in that book and in all his master's like we all have some little spark or gift or genetic biased towards something. Yeah. And if you feed that, like, and it's a benevolent thing, you become that, it's like it stays real. They'll me also show a path.
Other people right, right, right. When you can actually, just be yourself, people realize I may be, I can be myself to write, you know? Like, and they people love that, it really love that.
Like, I don't know, hip-hop that well, but like, you don't have to see Eminem very many times or watch eight-mile more than a couple of times or listen to his music. I understand like there's an energy there, it's not manufactured that's him.
He's the love that they love authenticity that's why they love Old Dirty Bastard. You know who that guy was? Yeah.
Like, I'm a
Huge Joe, Strummer fan. And I remember asking Rick, I was like, Hey, like what do you think it was about Strummer? The Clash were only around for like five years is that common gone, right? And he said very Rick, he goes, you know, there's something about Joe where everything he said. He brought his entire life experience to that and I'm like, well, that's about as mystical one gets like, what do you mean? And he's like, he just was purely himself that day with no concern about how you would perceive him, right? She wasn't trying to impress you or look.
Honk or not. Look Punk he just, you know, like he just was summer fell in love with hip-hop. He'd bring out hip-hop artist, and the punks would boo, which is when he realized Punk's aren't even punk, you know, like like, like they're there. And so, there's something so beautiful about the energy of something really pure. Yeah, like a Ryan Garcia left hook, it's the or early Beastie Boys, right? When later beasts, well, whatever or podcasting might and my, my work now is so much about like you said, like don't
The comet shut out the noise, you know, like lacks wants to go into the darkness and the light. He like wants it, he needs it.
Yeah. But that's always wise down in the dumps to tell him you're taking in too much
negativity, bro. I know and not that. I feel like if he didn't do that, it would be as weird as I'm not wearing that. That
suit. Maybe maybe it was, you know, if he didn't drink, he wouldn't be Mike, you know, maybe maybe Mike should be drinking every day, you know? I mean, it's
like they're just struck, te vas. Yeah, I mean you can go too far, right?
Because like there's a there's a great quote in the Oliver Sacks book. They said he said he had a teacher that said Oliver will go far provided. He does not go too far and I saw that I read that right about the point that I recently saw the documentary Roadrunner about Bourdain
And I actually had a chance to sit down and talk to Morgan Neville, who made that movie, and I didn't know much about him, but, like, I, what I saw, there was just like an adventure, like a super curious person and adventure and a punk rocker, like, he was from that year of, like, Rumi owns, like, it was. I and, and it was just a spectacular. Like, I'd know, I don't know why. I didn't know more about him, I should have because we have, there's kind of overlap and interest sets around like the, you know, New York, punk rock that that era that I've always been fascinated by a few years.
Behind there. But I was like, wow. Like I just saw, like a cunt like cutely, genuine curiosity in people and things, and I realize, like the food part was kind of incidental. Mmm, it was like at the person is just being him. And that's why I think so many people loved him is because he was just being him. And I don't, I don't know, I anymore about it. But like, I feel like people just being themselves is like the ultimate in personal
development. Yeah. He was also brilliant as a writer and he would write all of his own narratives.
All the narration was all his writing and he was just so good at it, so good at expressing his joy for different cultures and trying out their Cuisine and what he admired about them as human beings and about their spirit and he loved people. He loved people, I love being around people. He did not love being famous though, man. That guy got fucked up by Fame. He did not like it. It was very uncomfortable and that thing that you were talking about Basquiat experienced. I think everybody experiences you get
there's a Temptation towards audience capture. There's a there's this desire to appease those and please those who love you, it may be at the expense of your own self esteem and your own perspective because you see things through other's eyes and how they perceive you to be rather than who you actually are and you're so aware and so painfully self-aware. That you you lose your ability to just be yourself what Rick's talking about, did you?
Bu, and that happens to most people because it is a complicated drug, which is why it's a terrible drug to give to young people. Fame is a terrible drug to give to young people. And I one of the ways that I mitigate all this stuff is through,
Voluntary, adversity, voluntary, physical adversity, and then, mental adversity, doing difficult things. And that the more difficult things that I do, the easier this weird state that I find myself in is and I think one of the reasons why I'm so comfortable with it because I'm uncomfortable all the fucking time, I'm voluntarily uncomfortable, most of the day, so regular uncomfortable, it's like yeah whatever it's not 196 degrees for 25 minutes that's I did that this morning fog.
Got here that shit's hard. That's really hard. That's like you're going to die hard. You're going to die hard is so much harder than oh Thumbelina doesn't look like me. Oh somebody took my clip and Rouge took it out of context because
you're going to die of heat is a real thing. That's what Rick says, like nature is a truth. Like you heat up too much. Too long. You can die. Yeah. And you're playing with that a little bit, it's playing and it's hard and you do it correctly. And yeah, and cardio is really important for that cardio is one of the very best things for alleviating anxiety. And I know there's a lot of
Studies that have been done on weightlifting and about strength resistance training and it levying anxiety. And I think that's a fact. I think that's true as well. But there's something about I might die cardio. I might add our cardio is a different kind of cardio. It's like it. If you can swim and to the point where, you know you do laps in the pool, you do laps in the pool where you like, I don't know if I'm going to make it to the end of that fucking pool and when you do get out of that pool regular life is way easier period.
. No discussion. I think when people are talking about cardio, they're engaging in maybe Zone to type cardio, which is a walk, which is very good for you. Very good for you. By the way, you can I do Zone to cardio I will put, I will get on the assault bike and not go, very fast and weight vest on minutes and watch television. You know, I would do that. But I also do Tabata Sprint's on that motherfucker where I do 20 minutes printing 10 second rest to scuse me 20 seconds printing 10 second rest 20 seconds. Pray and I do that in.
Is sets of 4 for 8 reps. So, 8 reps, 4 times, okay? It's only like 20 minutes.
I do something similar, I do. I render. I like to like to walk or hike. I use one of these vests. I don't have any relationship to them but the Morpho makes these ones that are really like close to the body. Yeah. And so I use that because you can really move easily in that. I don't like I like a heavily loaded military vest, it just doesn't feel right to me. And if I load from the back like a rock, I feel pitched forward. So I like that. I like how Sprite and workers are? Yeah, nice.
With feel and then I'll walk far that way but then I'll do the same thing except I do a little different I'll go ten second Sprint. 20 second rest, do that eight times. That's my Friday morning hit work out and I feel like I want to die but yeah just one but I think that I have an observation that's not backed by any formal science but I'd like your thoughts on it. I've known a lot of people who are kind of compulsive anxious or even outright addicts who then get really into running or any kind of cardio long distance endurance.
Type Sport and they seem to again not a scientific study, they seem to get and stay sober. Yeah we're as I find that while weightlifting is really healthy and I really enjoy it. I've observed that it can create a kind of like tension in the body that doesn't like release completely, maybe even builds energy into the nervous system, so to speak. And I do know, a number of people who have had challenges with drugs and alcohol. I'm grateful that I haven't. Had those challenges bit of trounces, drugs and alcohol and they've gone the way of just wait.
Lifting and they've been like multiple relapse errs. Now, that's not a knock against weightlifting. I think people should do resistance training and cardio, but it is kind of remarkable that people that do a lot of cardio seem to successfully beat their addictions. Right? And maybe it's just the time involved, who knows?
It's a lot of time involved. It's also overwhelming so it takes over your mind, your body. Every I think if you're doing a marathon yours, you're grinding four hours. You're doing three hours if you're really
fast. What's the longest
Since you've ever run in a single
bound, I don't really run. So the longest distance I've ever run is only a few miles. I think I did a 5k once my friend well campaigns, you know, Camp cam had a 5k once in Vegas and it was, I had zero training. I didn't run at all and I did, I was like, wow, this is hard and at the end of us, like, that's a lot harder than I thought. I thought I was in pretty good shape. I'd be able to run. What is it? Three-point-something
miles. Yeah, he's a sicko. He's got a broken foot right now and he's still running.
On it. Uh-huh. And
he's gotta get surgery but you can't have surgery right now because he has elk hunting season coming
up. He was on his way to Alaska. When I like I said he sent me some some, some meat which I'm very grateful for his delicious. He um, he told me that I said, you know, what's the pain level in that foot? Because he showed the x-rays still very broken. Yeah. And he said, I said, you know, ten Outta ten being Max Payne like excruciating cannot stand it, he's like, I don't know, maybe a 45, but he's running his it.
He came and stayed recently is stayed at my house a few times. And I've set up some archery in the backyard and I like he can use my Sonic Kolb lunch. I love it. When people just spontaneously come and stay Alexis, come and stay and I wake up and there's literally we did a post about, but literally how it happened was. I woke up in the morning, I hadn't yet started work. So that was added layer of the post and cam hands is on my roof, shooting arrows, at my targets, which he's moved beyond the fence line and so, the neighbors are like, who's this guy? This is Los Angeles, right? You know, so he's a wild man. I love him hitting bull's-eyes.
The whole way through just to rub it in, it's just
bizarre that he's running on that foot. He knows he's going to have to get fixed, but if they get it fixed, it's probably gonna have to be off of it for like six weeks or
something. No. And I keep trying him to get him to do some of the, what I know to be very useful, things like BBC 157, etcetera. Which yes, there isn't any clinical data for. It's all animals, but not now. But so many people report feeling better. It's very hard to get. He's got a gap in that broken. Yeah. That he needs to men that thing.
Yeah, they need to put some screws in that bitch,
but he would run on Startup.
Oops guys like him and Goggins will run on stumps and
organs got another knee surgery recently. He's had a but I mean, he's bone on bone and he's essentially getting surgeries to shape his bone. So his bone on bone is flatter because you know, when you have bone on bone, it distorts and grows weird. So what does he do? Does he stop as you get a fake neat? Nope, he gets it cut flat and put he gets a wedge cut in the bone and shifts it down. So it's flat. So bone-on-bone at least it has
The correct geometry. Like what?
He's a Phenom. Well, there's a guy. We're in his. Whatever it was late 20s. Took a look at his childhood was like, well, I wasn't, you know, being, you know, my nervous system shape to be a great athlete or a Navy SEAL etcetera. Looked at everything he had become. And he basically said a big hard know, he's like, whatever it was that happened before, then he was going to shape his nervous system by putting in Endless hours. So, his 20s if I want. He's right. So, it runs and runs counter to everything that we talked about earlier.
Which is that one has to start early but he's making up the time and then some, you know, I saw a poster where he was, where he couldn't move his legs for whatever reason. Maybe it just had surgery who's running on his hands on the treadmill. Yeah, his feet position can like plank position. Yeah, he's a ridiculous person amazing, super inspiring. He's like wish noun and a verb. I just an
adjective. I just wish that there was stem cell technology and regenerative technology available now to help his joints stay healthy. Why is the problem is
Is that will that mind that power is eventually going to break down his body and mechanically it's not going to work
anymore. Titanium is pretty good. This is what the neurosurgeons understand. Like, you know, you take out a wolf lapis call, you replace it with titanium, it's a lot stronger.
You know? I mean I mean titanium knees is that we're
suggest now. We're other other. Other biomaterials,
right? They're closed. They're real close. There's been some studies recently that regenerate cartilage, you know? And so I think the real close, I think if you could just hang in there for a few more years,
Probably going to be able to fix things.
Yeah, exosomes are exciting. Bpc 157 while only animal data. It's very clear, you know, has the propensity to encourage fibroblast was he sells that, you know, make up things like and tendons, and cartilage, Etc, and can really repair tissues? I mean, I mean, you know, yeah, I certainly have experienced it can help repair
things. Yeah, they're legit, it's legit. And unfortunately, the FDA is trying to get rid of it. There's a lot of things that are really good for you that unfortunately are not regulated correctly.
Yeah, it sucks.
Well, my wish. I mean, I have no plans to go to Washington, but, but my wish is that things like BBC, 157. Some very interesting. I would say not cutting edge, but even further out, like bleeding edge, things like pie Nealon, which can help with regeneration of the pineal asides or incredible for Sleep. Potentially like we need these things explored and everyone for a while I was like peptides, oh, it sounds really good. Kind of gray Market, weird, and it can be, but let's face it. Glp-1 agonists. Oh, septic. Majority up. That's a peptide that existed for years in the field.
Bodybuilding industry. Now it's like probably approaching a trillion dollar industry
Sunday that has a tremendous windfall in terms of the amount of money you can generate from it, BBC 157 can be made by virtually any laboratory and it's probably going to cut back an orthopedic surgeries, right? And that's the gross the the gross reality of a lot of this stuff, a lot of this stuff is going to cost companies money because people won't be taking pain medication. They won't be taking anti-inflammatory medication, they won't be getting as many surgeries and that's where it gets fucked up because
The Health Care System, the business of healthcare is really set up not looking at people's like what's the best way and the most efficient way in the most cost-effective way, in terms of, for the, the actual patient to treat them. No. It's how do I make the most money from this
person? Well, we did an episode on back health and strengthening and back and back pain, weights to McGill on, and it was wild, I've never received emails and stuff like that. Like half of the people or more saying this the McGill big three, help me.
You so much. Might stabilize. My back of this. It's like a, he's got his three movements. He can look it up on YouTube. They're easy to find there but it's all about and he's in great shape in his late 60s. Incredible, incredible shape chops wood. He's up in Canada. So
He basically is giving behavioral tools to stabilize and strengthen the spine and deal with back pain and then the other half were like, what is this? You know, you can't treat announcing this issue, do science and then everyone telling me how much benefit they got out of McGill's, big three and then the war among the physios, like the physios. That's an ugly field I'll tell you. And I asked someone, why is this field of, you know, exercise physiology. So brutal asked Andy Galpin is and turns out. It's because it's very hard to get a lot of clients and the moment that somebody comes out with knowledge. That's very useful for a lot of people.
Well, they're potentially taking away their livelihood, right? So, you know, to say nothing of the pain treatment world. We had a guy on our podcasting seán Mac, he's an MD Ph.D runs. Our pain clinic at Stanford, and he talks about the biopsychosocial model of pain and he's very open-minded. Meds work, in some cases. So does your emotional or cognitive interpretation of the pain? What does it mean? So two things like meditation? Like, he's basically trying to incorporate all these different things. He's very holistic for lack of a better word, but if you look at most pain Docs,
They're not that evolved. They're just like okay this is what you use might be. Addictive might not be addictive, but they're not ever talking about strengthening the systems that gave away in the first place, right? So I totally agree with you. People like there is no replacement for self-care. There's just no replacement. No pull, no Potion, No injection, no, nothing. There are things that can help. But there's nothing that can replace behaviors because our nervous system was evolved for these behaviors.
Yeah. Yeah, listen, man, it's always a fascinating conversation with you. I appreciate you very much. I'm really glad you.
Have your own podcast and it's so popular and I love it. I was do it all the time and you put out a lot of great information man, really appreciate you. Well
thank you, I really appreciate you. You've been a great friend to me and a great source of support through a bunch of different aspects of podcasting, and supporting the discussions about health and exercise and forcing me to make my cold plunge a little colder. I'm a sniff smelling salt all of it. You know,
I read be wrong about the cold. I don't
know, no, but really right back at you, you know, they're very few places in the world where you can have a real discussion about
real things from all the Angles and know that the person sitting across from you is being truly open-minded about it, so really appreciate it.
My pleasure, appreciate you two. All right, by everybody.
